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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Now that I think about it, I've never bought a brand-new car that was made in the United States. I've only had three, though. My 2000 Intrepid and 2023 Charger were made in Canada, while my 2012 Ram was made in Mexico. The '03 Regal I inherited from my Dad came from Canada, as well.

    For some reason, I'm thinking my old '82 Cutlass Supreme coupe was made in Canada. Would that have been possible? Wikipedia mentions an assembly plant in Quebec. But would that have only been for Canadian-sold cars, or would they have sent some of them to the States, as well?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited March 2024
    My only new cars, out of 16, that weren't assembled in the U.S. were that '85 Celebrity, and our '19 Equinox, which was built in Ontario.

    I wonder if your Cutlass Supreme might've been built in Oshawa, Ontario, which I think was/is a very big GM assembly facility.

    I'd seen Oshawa-built Chevelles and Monte Carlos at my hometown dealer in NW PA starting in around '73, so Canadian-built cars did come to the States.

    I'd never heard of Ste. Therese until the '75 Monza 2+2, Starfire, and Skyhawk. They were all from there. It was supposedly a small plant. I remember reading in a Popular Mechanics' Owners' Survey of '75 Monza 2+2's, owners reported being happier-than-the-normal than most domestics, for fit-and-finish. When the Vega started selling like crazy in '74, Ste. Therese was the overflow plant beyond Lordstown in the States.

    Not sure, but I think Ste. Therese is gone. I know that Camaros and Firebirds up to the '02's were built there.
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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,347

    I know most of my Honda and Acura products were made in Ohio. Mavericks made in Mexico. No clue about others but I think Chrysler and Nissan were US. And Subaru. Mazdas were Japan.

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,612
    We had a South African BMW.

    US assembly - new car purchases
    '77 Cobra II
    '97, '99, '01 Accords
    '08, '11, '17 X3s

    I think that's it.
    Pretty sure my two CR-Vs ('98, '02) were Japan or England

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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    Hopefully selling a vehicle to a neighbor is not like selling one to a relative. :o
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  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,197
    The Jetta I had was assembled in Mexico.

    The MINI came from ol' Blighty.

    And the Subaru was put together in Indiana.

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    My daughter and her husband just bought a new Subaru Forester. I know some Subarus are made in Indiana, but theirs was built in Japan.
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited March 2024
    I am pretty sure all of my bought/leased new MBs were/are Sindelfingen cars. The 98 and 02 AMG cars might have had final assembly elsewhere as the early merger AMG days had some differences.

    My mom's XV30 Camry is a Japan-built car, I remember pointing this out to her before she bought it.

    Either the Tempo (85) or Taurus (93) were built in St. Louis or maybe Kansas City (?) - I want to say St. Louis. I remember the UAW sticker had a typo or misspelling that amused me when I was a kid.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    I count 9 vehicles built at the Louisville plant.
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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,347

    @explorerx4 said:
    Hopefully selling a vehicle to a neighbor is not like selling one to a relative. :o

    Neighbors get the same end of driveway warranty. Convenient since it already parked at the end of the driveway.

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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    @stickguy,
    Got your forums mixed up.
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  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,325
    Just off the top of my head,
    The E90 3er and C43 were built in South Africa.
    The E83 X3 came from Graz Austria.
    The '74 Monte Carlo was hastily assembled in Doraville GA.
    The MS3 was a Hiroshima product
    The Club Sport was built in Munich
    The M6 was a Dingolfing native.

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  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,412
    Fun fact

    BMW is America's largest exporter of vehicles. Most of the SUVs sold around the world are made here in SC
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    Of my 16 new, four were built down the road at Lordstown. Three of those were 5-speed manuals.
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I checked the fintail, also Sindelfingen. Interesting thing about it, as I have the service book - the car has a maybe unusual option of having the first (I assume break-in) service performed at the factory, so it shipped with 300 miles on the clock and has its first service entry at the factory. I wonder if any other makers had such an option.
  • sdasda Member Posts: 7,580
    fintail said:

    I checked the fintail, also Sindelfingen. Interesting thing about it, as I have the service book - the car has a maybe unusual option of having the first (I assume break-in) service performed at the factory, so it shipped with 300 miles on the clock and has its first service entry at the factory. I wonder if any other makers had such an option.

    Cool. Was it a German delivery for the US owner then shipped to the states? I would love to have done that.

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  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,284
    My first new car was the ‘85 MR2, built in Toyota City, Japan. Then the ‘90 VW GTI which was built in Mexico. Long gap to the Olds Intrigue, built at GM’s Fairfax plant in Kansas City, and the ‘09 Lacrosse which I believe came out of Oshawa. Then the ‘11 Regal which came out of the Opel plant in Russellsheim, Germany, and the two Caddy ATS which were built in Lansing.

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited March 2024
    sda said:

    fintail said:

    I checked the fintail, also Sindelfingen. Interesting thing about it, as I have the service book - the car has a maybe unusual option of having the first (I assume break-in) service performed at the factory, so it shipped with 300 miles on the clock and has its first service entry at the factory. I wonder if any other makers had such an option.

    Cool. Was it a German delivery for the US owner then shipped to the states? I would love to have done that.
    Nope, not that I know of anyway - I have a bit of paperwork with the car, but no Euro delivery material. The data card has the first service at factory as one of the option codes. The service book was dutifully used until around 1976, then owners started using indy shops.

    Euro delivery still exists, you get a free hotel stay and breakfast with it IIRC. The last time I visited the MB Customer Center, I saw the room where customers take delivery.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited March 2024
    Wasn't your car delivered at the Stude/MB dealer in Santa Monica, Simonson-Schactmeyer? What would the advantage be of someone near the plant driving the car for 300 miles then getting it serviced? Or would the original owner have picked up in Germany, on a vacation or something, and figuring the factory would be the best place for its first service?

    My old '63 Lark Daytona was picked up by the customer at the South Bend plant, and the build sheet says "Service for Retail Delivery", but that's different I know. I guess the advantage was saving the cost of destination charges, and driving it home.

    Did someone at the factory drive it, then it was sold to a U.S. dealer at a good price? Sort of like the old "Brass Hat" GM cars sold through dealers.

    Seems surprising that there was recommended service at 300 miles; wonder if it was in for an adjustment of some sort.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited March 2024
    The stupid stuff I remember....my '81 and '82 Monte Carlos were built in Baltimore; my '85 Celebrity in Oshawa, ON; my '89 Beretta GT in Wilmington, DE; my '90 Corsica in Linden, NJ; my '93 Caprice Classic in Ypsilanti, MI ('Willow Run'); my '97 and '02 Cavaliers at Lordstown, OH; my '08 Cobalt and '17 Cruze at Lordstown, OH; my '99, '02, and '05 minivans at Doraville, GA; my '11 Malibu at Kansas City; the '19 Equinox at Ingersoll, ON; and the C8, Bowling Green, KY.

    I've probably mentioned this before, but I was originally planning on museum delivery on my C8 when I thought I'd get the car in spring or early summer '24, before I switched dealers. But on a '24, museum delivery cost $1,400 on top of the normal destination charge of $1,595. Insane. They do not put you up or buy a meal. People, including my friend, say it's great, and it's all a benefit to the museum there. But yeesh, that's some $$. I'm told you get treated like royalty, get someone who personally goes over your car with you more than a dealer does, and some think the factory make-ready-for-delivery is done by people who know the car better than a dealer. But I just couldn't justify that cost, plus my car was scheduled for production the last week of Sept., and who knows what the weather might've been.

    I toured the plant for $5 in 2006 and visited the museum then.

    My plan is to go see Graceland to get it off my bucket list. Wife still works and not interested. I see I'll drive right past Bowling Green so will probably do a museum stop. I remember they had a display about styling head Bill Mitchell there and it mentioned he was from my hometown of Greenville, PA.
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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,612
    We haven't toured the plant, but we've been to the museum. Strangely enough, it was on our way to Memphis, where we toured Graceland! A couple years before you went, I think.

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415

    Wasn't your car delivered at the Stude/MB dealer in Santa Monica, Simonson-Schactmeyer? What would the advantage be of someone near the plant driving the car for 300 miles then getting it serviced? Or would the original owner have picked up in Germany, on a vacation or something, and figuring the factory would be the best place for its first service?

    My old '63 Lark Daytona was picked up by the customer at the South Bend plant, and the build sheet says "Service for Retail Delivery", but that's different I know. I guess the advantage was saving the cost of destination charges, and driving it home.

    Did someone at the factory drive it, then it was sold to a U.S. dealer at a good price? Sort of like the old "Brass Hat" GM cars sold through dealers.

    Seems surprising that there was recommended service at 300 miles; wonder if it was in for an adjustment of some sort.

    I always assumed maybe the original owner was maybe extra careful or cautious, and wanted initial break-in by the experts. The original owner was a doctor of some kind, and was persnickity to put it nicely - the owner's manual has several notes from him about quirks with the car - the fluid coupling automatic and FI system seemed to always be on his mind. I suspect the service advisor or mechanics knew this guy well. He kept the car until around 1970, when I think it had only around 25K miles. The second owner drove it a lot more, and it was up to near 100K miles by 1976 (when records become more sparse, only a few here and there until ~1990, when the guy I bought it from took ownership).

    The service is an option code on the build card, so the car was ordered with it - it could be Euro delivery and the paperwork was lost to time. I don't have an original invoice or purchase documents. The factory service was at 300 miles, which seems pretty soon. The next service was at ~1800 miles, at the dealer in Santa Monica.

    Speaking of Graceland, I was slated to have a work conference in Memphis in a couple weeks, but didn't really want to go, as I knew I would be blowing money on side trips and have some other bills this year. Fortunately, my director said only one person from my group wants to go, and the rest of us don't have to - Graceland will have to wait, as I probably would have done it.

    And speaking of factory delivery, this is the room at the MB Customer Center in Sindelfingen where new owners take delivery, I took this pic during my last visit (where you can do a factory tour, I have done it several times):


  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited March 2024
    When friends picked up their '22 C8 at the museum, I looked online and saw them. I texted the wife to wave at the camera and she did, which was pretty funny.

    kyfdx, did you like Graceland? I know that was a long time ago.

    By male standards of my age group, I'm not mainstream, that I know--I love seeing historical spots, and places of pop culture. I watch zero sports, and am bored s******* at a beach. I like a fair amount of women musical artists and actors but aren't afraid of '"losing my 'guy card'", LOL.

    Wife and I are planning on driving out to Seattle to visit the daughter in the summer. No, not taking the C8, but probably renting a smallish SUV to take stuff out to her that's still in our house. We plan on visiting an old school friend of mine in Wisconsin en route, which we've never done although have been invited for years. If I could, I'd drive up to Plainfield, WI to see two or three sites related to Ed Gein, the inspiration for Norman Bates in 'Psycho', as well as some others in later horror movies. I'm not typically into true crime, but his story is fascinating to me, LOL. Quiet, soft-spoken farmer who was found not guilty by reason of insanity in 1957 of murder (and other bad stuff) and lived until 1984 in a Wisconsin mental hospital. Supposedly he never needed medication and was a model resident. Wife is like, "Absolutely not!".
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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    edited March 2024
    @uplanderguy,
    If you are in the Madison area, a tour of the capital building and on Saturday Farmer's Market might be more palatable to your wife. :)
    A little west of there in Verona is Epic Systems where you can do a self directed tour.
    https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g60349-d25408332-Reviews-Epic_Systems-Verona_Wisconsin.html
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    Thanks for the tips, appreciated.
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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,612
    Graceland? It's okay. I'm glad I went, but I'd never go again. We're the same age, so we grew up with Elvis. That makes it semi-interesting.

    We had other things to see and do in Memphis (plus, it was sort of on the way to my mother's house in Arkansas, at the time). I would certainly never take a special trip to Memphis just to see it. Not even if you're already half-way there.

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    I'm nerdier-than-average, and enjoy just taking a road trip on occasion, so I think I'll probably enjoy it. I hear Memphis is not too great even around Graceland.
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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,612
    edited March 2024

    I'm nerdier-than-average, and enjoy just taking a road trip on occasion, so I think I'll probably enjoy it. I hear Memphis is not too great even around Graceland.

    Depends on what you like to do.. We ate ribs/drank/listened to music on Beale Street. Saw the ducks at the Peabody Hotel, went to a AAA baseball game downtown.

    Downside: It was literally 100 F.

    There is nothing around Graceland, that's for sure.

    The Lane Auto Museum is in Nashville. That's worth a stop.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023

    I'm nerdier-than-average, and enjoy just taking a road trip on occasion, so I think I'll probably enjoy it. I hear Memphis is not too great even around Graceland.

    Good place to go old-car spotting, though. This is walking distance from Graceland :p
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    All righty, then!

    I worked in Nashville for six months in 2006, and I did see the Lane Museum, Bowling Green, and Jack Daniel Distillery. Enjoyed them all, although my coworker from OH and I were concerned that Jack Daniel took a group tour pic to post on their site and we had played hooky to go there, LOL.
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415

    I'm nerdier-than-average, and enjoy just taking a road trip on occasion, so I think I'll probably enjoy it. I hear Memphis is not too great even around Graceland.

    If I was going on that trip, I was going to visit Graceland and do the cheapest option (I hear it can be a little dear), otherwise, I was thinking of taking a few day road trip and going to a bucket list stop - Wakita, OK, filming location of "Twister" and home of the Twister Museum. Maybe some day if I am in the region.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited March 2024
    A bucket list place for me to tour, too, is Houmas House in Burnside, LA, where the film "Hush...Hush, Sweet Charlotte" was filmed. It was in other movies and was famous before that, but I just love that movie and have since I was a kid. I could talk the wife into going there as it would also include visiting NOLA which we've never been.

    Another place I wish I could get back to is Dealey Plaza and the SIxth Floor Museum in Dallas. I was there in 1994 but would like to get back. The museum is top-notch and covers his presidency as well as the assassination. My wife wouldn't be interested unless we could tie it into seeing the Chip and Joanna Gaines stuff in Waco while we were there.

    It's hard for me to believe that someone could be in the Dallas area for an extended period and not go there. But, I know a couple married-couple friends who didn't. :)
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  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,284
    edited March 2024
    It’s hard for me to believe that anyone would want to go see anything related to Chip and Joanna Gaines (no offense to Mrs. Uplander) :o . It’s shows like theirs that made me drop the cable channels that carry them.

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  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,197
    ab348 said:

    It’s hard for me to believe that anyone would want to go see anything related to Chip and Joanna Gaines (no offense to Mrs. Uplander) :o . It’s shows like theirs that made me drop the cable channels that carry them.

    Before my mom really declined, her and my sister took a trip to Waco specifically to see those sights.

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415

    A bucket list place for me to tour, too, is Houmas House in Burnside, LA, where the film "Hush...Hush, Sweet Charlotte" was filmed. It was in other movies and was famous before that, but I just love that movie and have since I was a kid. I could talk the wife into going there as it would also include visiting NOLA which we've never been.

    Another place I wish I could get back to is Dealey Plaza and the SIxth Floor Museum in Dallas. I was there in 1994 but would like to get back. The museum is top-notch and covers his presidency as well as the assassination. My wife wouldn't be interested unless we could tie it into seeing the Chip and Joanna Gaines stuff in Waco while we were there.

    It's hard for me to believe that someone could be in the Dallas area for an extended period and not go there. But, I know a couple married-couple friends who didn't. :)

    That might work for a trip to that area, visit Dealey Plaza, check out some filming locations in Austin, and go to OK.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    edited March 2024
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  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    Parked at the QT - a '91-ish Corolla SR5 Coupe. Those thing just run forever.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,612
    Bank parking lot

    Hummer H3 Sport Utility Truck

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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    Imagine if this was actually produced. Olds W30 W43.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vac2FopMToU
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    In traffic today was behind an early 80s Olds 88 sedan, which appeared to have been on the road for the past ~40 years. It was moving along fine anyway.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 7,218
    I remember my in-laws decided that with one infant and another on the way, that my wife's 1978 Buick Skylark 2-door was no longer going to work now that we'd need two car seats. So one day towards the end of 1985, a white with a blue vinyl top and a blue cloth interior Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme, a 4-door, and he threw her the keys before driving off in the Buick. That car was a great vehicle and the 4-doors came in handy because by September of 1987, we had our third child, so we really needed the extra room. We had just moved into our new construction 4 bed, 2 bath home a couple months before that.

    That Cutlass was a very good vehicle for us and too whatever we threw at it. It was to be our last domestic as it was traded on a 1993 Toyota Camry and we never looked back!

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Those 4-door Cutlass Supremese were nice cars. Back over the summer of 1989, after I wrecked my '80 Malibu coupe, I went out looking for potential replacements. One used car I saw that I liked was a 1985 Cutlass Supreme sedan, with the 307. It was silver with a gray top/interior, and had Olds Rally wheels.

    I'm totally drawing a blank on how much they wanted for it. But in the end, my Granddad took me to a local junkyard, and we found a 1981 Malibu that was the same light blue color as mine. We bought the header panel/grille/headlight cluster etc, for $210 with tax, and Granddad put it on for me.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited March 2024
    Those intermediate four-doors with the fixed rear glass--I know they did it for a couple reasons; one, for increased elbow room, but also the glass was big enough that it would barely have gone down at all in the door (although some would've been better than none!).

    That said--ever try to actually rest your arm on those carved-out armrests?

    They're pretty forward of the seat, and it's not at all a natural resting of the arm!

    I remember my Dad just shaking his head at those rear-door windows, and also how the spare was suddenly a 'donut'. I get it. The mid-sizes were downsized even more in-your-face than the full-sizes the year before. Still, they're all probably the last GM cars I liked a whole lot.

    Your post made me realize that the Malibu went away after '83, while the B-O-P sedans and wagons continued.
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  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    1968 Ford Ranchero pulling into traffic, looked clean. Can't remember seeing one of those in decades.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    All of the G-wagons (I like that, sounds like a Mercedes term :p ) went away after 1983, being replaced by the A-body wagons for '84. The Regal sedan hung around through 1984. Bonneville-G through 1986. And the Cutlass Supreme sedan actually made it through 1987!

    As for those stationary rear door windows, on the earlier models, the ones with the big "picture windows" that had the vents in the C-pillar, there was hardly any room at all for that window to roll down inside the door. One of my friends had a '78 Malibu Classic 4-door. One night leaving work he cut a corner too close and snagged a guardrail with the rear passenger door. It gouged it deep enough to tear through the sheetmetal. I found a back door off of a '78-80 LeMans in the junkyard for something like $50 or $75 (can't remember which now) and got it for him, and helped him put it on. Well, tried to help. I couldn't get it to line up right, and had to get the help from the neighbor in back, who was a guru when it came to cars.

    The LeMans was a pale yellow with a bucksin interior, whereas the Malibu was dark blue with a light blue interior. We swapped the interior trim, so it would line up. And eventually, my friend's wife got tired of seeing a midnight blue car with a pale yellow back door, and took a spray paint can to it.

    I held onto that damaged '78 Malibu door for awhile, and remember pulling it apart enough that I was able to get the window glass out of it. I do remember noticing that, inside the door, there really was very little space, so that big window would have only been able to roll down a couple inches, at best. Plus, with roll-down windows, I believe the glass extends much further under the window sill, to attach to the lift mechanism. With these stationary windows, the amount of glass below the sill was smaller. I forget now, how exactly it was held in place.

    Now on wagons, and the later 4-door models with the more formal roofline, which had the flip-out vent in the rear part of the door, I have a feeling they could have made those windows roll down about half way, if they really wanted to.

    As for the recessed armrests, I haven't been in the back seat of one of these models since my grandparents' 1982 Malibu wagon, so I don't have much memory of it. But I've heard that, that their placement is really awkward. One of my friends has a 2020 or so Nissan Kicks, and one time I rode in it, and noticed the same thing about its armrest... It's hard to tell from this picture, but the armrest has a taper to it towards the back. And where my elbow tends to hit, it wants to fall off.

    GM takes a lot of flack for those fixed windows, but I can sort of see the rationale at the time. When they downsized the big cars the year before, some versions did lose about 3" of shoulder room. I think it was mostly the B-bodies, but the C-bodies had thicker door panel padding, so they probably stayed about the same. But I think something like an Impala or Caprice dropped from around 64.3" to 61.5". BUT, that was still comparable to existing full-sized cars on the market, so they were still competitive. They could still hold six passengers if needed, and actually had a bit more trunk space than the cars they replaced. The only thing they really gave up was towing capacity, but still could be equipped to tow something like 5,000 lb.

    Meanwhile, I think most midsized cars, sedans at least, had about 59" of shoulder room. I think GM's Colonades had around 59.6" up front, slightly less in the back. So, the downsized B-bodies were still bigger inside than the typical midsize.

    But, most compacts were around 56-57" I think (although the Maverick and Granada were narrower). So, when the Malibu got downsized, many of its dimensions were closer to that of the existing compacts than they were the existing midsized cars. So, it really had to prove itself, that it really WAS still a roomy, midsized car.

    Funny thing though, even if they gave it normal rear doors with roll down windows, I think it still beat out any existing compact, or "downsized intermediates" that were based on compacts, like the '81-82 Granada, '83-86 LTD, M-body Diplomat/Gran Fury/5th Avenue, K-car derivatives, etc. So even without taking into account the recessed armrests, they still would've been the roomiest midsized cars around, once the LTD-II and the Monaco/Fury went away. I think when the '86 Taurus/Sable came out, they were the first car to beat out the Malibu and its variants in shoulder room, after downsizing set in.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    One other reason GM cited (according to Consumer Reports at least), for those stationary rear windows that seems to have been scrubbed from the internet...or possibly never made it there in the first place: aerodynamics/ventilation. Apparently, in wind tunnel testing, the cars actually got better air flow with the vents open than they would have with the back windows rolled down. It might have improved aerodynamics, as well. I've noticed that with most 4-door cars, when you open a back window, air flow seems turbulent, rather than smooth.

    However, I don't know if they compared air flow of the vent to a window that rolled all the way down or even half way, or to the big "picture windows", which would not have gone down much at all?

    And, that really only applies to higher speeds. On a hot day at lower speeds, and stop and go driving, you're going to roast in the back seat with those stationary windows. It almost makes air conditioning mandatory. I'd imagine the majority of cars in this class were ordered with a/c by 1978 anyway, though.

    I'd have to think though, that if enough people got fed up with those stationary windows, they would have complained and GM would have done something about it. But, people kept buying the danged things, right up until the last Cutlass Supreme sedan in 1987!

    Towards the end though, I imagine that most Cutlass Supreme sedans were bought by older people who rarely needed the back seat, unless they had the grandkids, or were going out on the town with another couple. I think a lot of them ended up as rentals, too. One thing I've noticed about older people is that they tend to prefer air conditioning, to fresh air, and are less willing to deal with opening windows on a hot day. So they probably didn't care that the back windows didn't roll down. And I even notice it with myself. I'm less tolerant of heat/humidity as I get older, and I'm pretty quick to turn on the a/c.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    edited March 2024
    Knowing GM, reason #1 (and 2 and 3) was to cut cost.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited March 2024
    I believe reason #1 was to be able to advertise interior space comparable to the much-larger '77's--as they did in comparing the '77 full-size cars to the '76.

    The X-cars, introduced about 18 months later, did not have fixed rear door glass.

    I believe the first K-cars had fixed rear-door glass, but that got changed at some later point.

    Now that I think about it, the four-door Chevette was also introduced for the '78 model year, and it had roll-down rear windows. (My wife was driving a '78 when we got married in 1989. Bought her a new 4-door Corsica 5-speed in spring '90 and you'd have thought she was driving something expensive.)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Yep, the '81 Reliant and Aries did have fixed rear windows in the 4-doors and wagons. And didn't even get the benefit of a recessed armrest! 1982 models had fixed rear windows as well, until about midway through the model year. I remember reading that Chrysler figured out that, over the volume they produced, they really weren't saving any money.

    However, one other possibility, is that the Dodge 400 and LeBaron debuted in 1982, and I think it was mid-year. They had roll-down windows in back. So because of that, it was probably easier to just make them all roll down, rather than have some fixed, and some roll-down.

    One nice feature would have been to have a roll-down window in back AND a flip out vent.

    I think with compact cars and subcompacts, air conditioning was much less likely to be ordered, so fresh-air ventilation was more important in them, than it was in larger cars. That's most likely why many smaller, cheaper coupes back then at least had flip-out windows in back, while the larger, more expensive ones were fixed.

    Also, in 1978 inflation was pretty bad, and I think that's one reason why GM did things like making the V6 engines standard in the downsized personal luxury coupes, and making automatics optional again. That way they could advertise the base price of a 1978 Monte Carlo as not being that much more than a 1977. Even if it was, once you equipped it to be more comparable.

    So yeah, things like the stationary windows in the 4-doors, and compact spare tires were done with cost-cutting in mind. But, if inflation hadn't been so bad and buyers were worried about sticker shock, I wonder if some of those cost cutting/weight reduction measures wouldn't have been so extreme. There were also those CAFE standards they had to worry about, where they had to get the fleet average above a certain MPG, or face fines. Most of the masses wouldn't recognize a 0.1 mpg increase, but the auto makers would sell their souls to the Devil himself, to avoid those fines.
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