I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

andre1969

Thinking back on it now, I remember my '69 Dart GT, with the 225 slant six, seemed to be the worst on cool, damp days. It could be cold and snowing and it would be fine, and it was fine in hot weather, but give it a cool, misty day with temps in the 40s, and it was miserable. But my '68, with the rebuilt 318-2bbl, I don't remember that being much of a problem.

One thing I remember, about Mom's '80 Malibu, is that in the winter she'd let that sucker warm up a good 5 minutes, put it into gear, get down to the entrance of the driveway, and it would stall out when she tried to pull out into the street. My '82 Cutlass Supreme was similar, but then it was around that time that I learned you really don't have to let them sit and warm up that long. Maybe a minute or two on cold days, and then just drive gently until it warms up.

imidazol97

My 70 Mustang with the 302 engine (289 had been dropped) was the first with stalling when cold and driveability. I remember fine tuning the pulloffs on the choke on the carb so it wouldn't stall out as soon as the engine pulled a little warmth up off the exhaust manifold. Do I remember right there was a housing that brought that air up to the carb spring? And were there 2 steps on the pull off on the choke to try to keep the mixture as lean as possible to save the earth due to pollution control?

And the vacuum spark advance on the carburator had a retard if I recall that also messed things up.

texases

I guess anything with a carb and pollution controls could be bad. Fuel injection was the solution.

stickguy

Our Volvo had a manual choke. Pull out the knob and DIY it!

andre1969

stickguy said:

Our Volvo had a manual choke. Pull out the knob and DIY it!

I wonder how many of those cold-start issues would have been solved simply by using a manual choke? I'm sure it's not the same thing, as they're small, air-cooled engines that only put out maybe 10-30 hp, but every lawn tractor I've had has used a manual choke, and they have never given me any cold start issues. In areas where you have a winter/dormant season, they're always cranky on the first start of the year, but that's usually because the battery died. But either recharge/replace the battery, or simply jump start, and they'd usually fire up pretty quick. Some of the older ones had a choke that you pulled out, while the newer ones tend to have a lever, sort of like an old fashioned Corvair, or '55 Mopar shifter, where you have low-high for the engine speed, but you push it all the way up for choke. The most recent tractor I have, a 2016 Cub Cadet, calls that top of the range "Start" rather than "Choke" but it's the same thing. Just put it up there, turn the key, it cranks for a few moments and then fires up. After a couple seconds, just put it down to "high" or wherever you want it.

It's probably considered crude and unsophisticated for a car, but hey, it would probably work better than a lot of automatic chokes! In a similar, more recent vein, I've known some people who think the idea of having to pump a gas pedal is beneath them. I knew a guy, who's only about a year or so younger than me, who who said he didn't even know how to drive something that you have to prime first. I asked him how that was possible, since his first car was an '82 Delta 88. And that's when he played the Diesel card. They were fuel injected, so I guess you didn't have to prime them. I thought it was a bit amusing too, as this guy thought of himself as a major DIY/survivalist type who would survive the downfall of civilization, and I'm like c'mon dude, a carburetor has you whipped!

ab348

Our later ‘73 Volvo had a manual choke. A lot of the time you had to pull it out slightly to get it to idle even if it was warm. They leaned out the carb for emission controls too much, so as the carb aged and passages narrowed, it didn’t want to run. Edging out the choke richened the mixture to fix that and defeated the emissions controls.

fintail

Thinking back at the carb'd cars in the family when I was a kid, I don't recall driveability issues with the 60 or 68 Fords (352 and 289, respectively) but I remember the 66 with a 390 was extremely cold blooded - warming up for 10 minutes could produce stalls, and IIRC it liked to stall going around corners when cold. This drove me nuts as a new driver. These were all old cars even then of course - the 66 might have had carb or vacuum issues. I remember my dad working on the carb of the 66 but it didn't seem to help much.

I don't recall the T-Bird or Horizon having any similar issues, but I was a young kid and maybe don't remember - but I was into cars. I suspect the 85 S-10 Blazer with a 2.8 was a carb too, and it didn't have driveability issues, although I do remember it had a constant clicky exhaust leak, and my dad hated how it handled. My dad also had an 85 F150 with a 300/manual and a similar era Econoline as used cars in the mid 90s, they both seemed to run fine. From there on, I think it was all FI. Tempo was FI and other than some engine computer quirks well over 100K miles, it always ran fine. Fintail seemed like a revelation coming from the Galaxie, even though it was older - started right up, let it run for a minute just because, and it would drive off without drama.

roadburner

Carbs in and of themselves aren't bad; the dialed-in Quadrajet on my Monte Carlo would let the car start almost instantaneously. Ditto for the twin Weber 32/36 DGAV on my Bavaria. Of course in each case the emission controls had been completely removed.

uplanderguy

RE.: Manual chokes--our '62 Fairlane six/stick had one. When we bought our new '67 Chevelle six/stick, Dad kind-of grumbled that it had an automatic choke. Years later, I was surprised to see that even a '62 Studebaker Lark six had an automatic choke.

uplanderguy

Thinking back on it now, I remember my '69 Dart GT, with the 225 slant six, seemed to be the worst on cool, damp days.

Funny, my Studes seemed to run best on days like those.

fintail

Saw a MB C126 (80s style SEC) out in the cold rain/snow mix today.

stickguy

parked at the market, on a not great weather day (but at least roads were dry and not obviously salty), a 68 or 69 Cutlass. Nice looking blue with white racing stripes, and oversized rear tires on mags and dual exhausts. No clue what engine it had, but it looked sharp. Just a weird thing to be out running around to stores up here in February!

kyfdx

fintail said:

Saw a MB C126 (80s style SEC) out in the cold rain/snow mix today.

Boomer Esiason had one of those when he was with the Bengals in the late '80s.

I walk by one about 2 miles from my house, now.

fintail

kyfdx said:

fintail said:

Saw a MB C126 (80s style SEC) out in the cold rain/snow mix today.

Boomer Esiason had one of those when he was with the Bengals in the late '80s.

I walk by one about 2 miles from my house, now.

Minters can be worth a bit, but many are still polar opposites as typical for older cars that cost a fortune to restore - perfectly preserved beauties or money pits. Probably a high survival rate as they were always seen as a little special, I think USDM launch MSRP was around 50K in 1982 dollars.

uplanderguy

This came today, four months and six days after I took delivery of the actual car.

It's really like a paperweight; very low-detail. It is the color and bodystyle (hardtop convertible or coupe) of your car, with the year and VIN noted on the plaque. The car is magnetized to the base and can be removed.

Also came with a $1,000 "reduced rate" coupon for a two-day driving course at the Ron Fellows Performance Driving School in Spring Mountain, CA. I don't think I'll be doing that.

Some guys on a C8 forum have had their cars for a year without getting this stuff yet; I was fortunate.

roadburner

I never pass up a track day (unless work obligations intervene).
Just do it.

uplanderguy

Sorry, Ron Fellows is in Nevada, not CA.

They provide the Corvettes.

I'm on a C8 "Owners and Friends" FB forum, which is good and bad....some strong personalities and some 'friends' who are wannabes and throw shade--by-far the biggest forum I participate in; 80K members, but I'm surprised at the number of owners who track their C8's. Also surprised at how many 30-and 40-somethings I see there who own the car, not to mention the occasional early twenty-something.

roadburner

I've tracked every car on my side of the garage since 1986 (not counting the Jeeps). The C43 may not make it to a road course until I retire next year, but It's definitely going to the 1/8 mile drag strip in a few months.

sda

Hardly the same as driving a car at a track, I did have the opportunity to race down a drag strip just outside of Knoxville. My 76 Sunbird V6 5sp dusted the Mustang II , lol. Great fun.

uplanderguy

On another subject, I've said this before, but sheesh, are FB car forums full of churlish dolts.

Somehow, a classic car page called "Funny Memes" (??) showed a picture of a '76 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham, calling it a "Sixty Special Brougham". I posted that after '72, Cadillac no longer called that car a "Sixty Special". I received outright laughter and derision. I said "Look online at the brochures, plus any advertising....it's very clear". The last guy wrote, "Admit you're wrong; there were many, many '76 Sixty-Specials".

Like that one internet meme says, something along the lines of, "Why are dumb people so absolutely certain of their positions, when smart people can have doubts?".

Everyone on here has different tastes, but I have never seen any stupidity. LOL

I guess the manufacturer is wrong, and I'm better served believing a page 48 years later called "Funny Memes". LOL.

andre1969

One thing that might cause confusion, is that there are plenty of sources out there, that people quote like it was the Bible, and many of them are downright wrong. I'll admit, to quoting things from my Consumer Guide auto encyclopedia, that they ended up getting wrong.

FWIW, that book shows, for 1970, a Sixty Special as the main heading, and "sdn 4d" and "Fleetwood Brougham sdn 4d" as submodels, trim levels, or whatever you want to call it.

For 1971-74, the main heading actually says "Sixty Special Brougham", with a subheading of only "Fleetwood sdn 4d"

In 1975-76, they list the main heading as "Fleetwood Brougham", with the lone subheading of "sdn 4d"

But yeah, out of curiosity I looked up the '76 brochure, and no mention that I could find of a Sixty-Special.
For 1974, they call it "Fleetwood Brougham," but have another section for the Brougham D'Elegance, and the Talsiman. However, if you want to get anal about it, in the specs page at the the end, they do mention "Fleetwood Sixty Special Brougham." I doubt too many people called it that in the real world, though.

I went back to the '76 brochure, to double check, and on the specs pages, they simply call it "Fleetwood Brougham."

But yeah, they definitely get bent out of shape these days in a lot of those online forums. I ruffled some panties (or is it Depends ;p ) on the National DeSoto Club's facebook page once because I used the word "anal" in a sentence. Oh, the HUMANITY!! 🤣

texases

When I run into those "experts" I say "prove it with a link to a reliable source, instead of your opinion".

kyfdx

They are as certain of their information as the experts on this website. 🤷‍♂️😂

roadburner

sda said:

Hardly the same as driving a car at a track, I did have the opportunity to race down a drag strip just outside of Knoxville. My 76 Sunbird V6 5sp dusted the Mustang II , lol. Great fun.

The only cars I've taken to the strip were my 1974 Monte Carlo and my 2014 M235i. A few years ago I took a friend's 2009 C63 to the strip. I beat a built 1970 Buick GS Stage I running slicks as well as a modded Lexus IS F. A buddy was sitting in the stands; when I lined up the E63 with the GS 455 he heard someone say, "What's that Mercedes doing here?" After I beat the Buick by @4 car lengths he heard the same guy say, "Wow, he ain't playin'!"

uplanderguy

andre, I saw what you said about "Sixty Special" being shown in small print in the specifications section of the '73 and '74 brochures. Just a hunch, but my gut feeling is that template was just used from '72 without anyone noticing 'til later. '75 and '76 specifications do not show that.

I could not find a single ad of one, nor a mention in the brochure selling section, showing/describing the cars as "Sixty Special", anywhere after the '72. I remember this from the time, and even now, I can't find a single thing that shows Cadillac marketed the car to customers after 1972, as the "Sixty Special". (I'm talking in the '71-76 gen.; I'm aware of the much-later 'Sixty Special').

The particular car in question was a '76.

texases:
When I run into those "experts" I say "prove it with a link to a reliable source, instead of your opinion".

Agree totally, but that comment would've been met by a couple guys in the group I'm talking about, with a devil/angry emoji. Seriously.

I guess I should know by age 65.5 that people are of differing levels of intellect, particularly on Facebook!

Personally, I trust a brochure or advertisement from the manufacturer, more than anything printed by an outside source decades later.

xwesx

Ah, yes. I have a '76 Sixty Special. Best car I own!

uplanderguy

I have a ‘23 Malibu SS. Did I ever mention that?!

Anybody who doubts it, I’m putting a grumpy face icon here.

sda

On my drive to work, a very nice medium blue 95 Cutlass Supreme sedan. Also on my drive to work,
he must be on my same schedule as I have seen him several times , a sharp last generation Eldorado. It looks new, sunroof, chrome factory wheels, Northstar. Lastly, a sharp red RX-8 in the company parking garage. Coincidentally I followed it when I left this afternoon and the driver was driving it energetically. Those are rare birds.

uplanderguy

Speaking of Cadillac, this morning I saw the latest-style DTS in pearlescent white and factory chrome wheels. It looked absolutely new. A mid-fifties-looking platinum blonde got out of it. I always thought that was a pleasingly simple design and nicely proportioned. In my mind, probably the last of the unabashedly American-styled luxury domestics.

Michaell

I always thought that was a pleasingly simple design and nicely proportioned.

The car or the driver?

tjc78

@Michaell said:
I always thought that was a pleasingly simple design and nicely proportioned.

The car or the driver?

Low hanging fruit…..

tjc78

@uplanderguy said:
Speaking of Cadillac, this morning I saw the latest-style DTS in pearlescent white and factory chrome wheels. It looked absolutely new. A mid-fifties-looking platinum blonde got out of it. I always thought that was a pleasingly simple design and nicely proportioned. In my mind, probably the last of the unabashedly American-styled luxury domestics.

Ironically (or maybe not) they ended production the same year (2011) as the Town Car did.

Both cars are great cruisers, the DTS had more options available but I’d trust the Town Car for the long haul. The Northstar just has too many weak points.

uplanderguy

You know what? I thought I'd get a crack about 'the car or the driver'!

I rented a DTS (may have still been called "DeVille" at the time), when my kids were probably 12 and 9 or so--maybe 2006 or 2007. We were going to Rochester, NY to visit my wife's nearly-90-year-old grandfather, a wonderful guy. We had a van and wanted something he'd be able to climb into, to go for a ride.

Our whole family enjoyed the Caddy. We joked that it felt like four Barcaloungers inside, and it was my first experience of XM radio (it was free so apparently the car was three months old or less). My older daughter said, "Dad, I'd give up the DVD player in the van for a car like this".

fintail

The later run DTS where the styling was sharpened up a bit definitely looked the best. IIRC the latest Northstars aren't as troublesome as prior versions either.

I clearly recall renting a Sirus XM-equipped A6 from Hertz in Las Vegas in 2007. Within a month I got a head unit for my own car (custom install, in the ashtray space).

roadburner

I put and AM/FM/CD/SXM radio in my son's 2002 in 2010. Prior to that I had only experienced SiriusXM in a couple of press loaners.

uplanderguy

I can't live without satellite radio in a car. I'll pay to add it even in a rental if I'm taking it on a trip.

You can dicker on it like a Persian rug! Same with OnStar.

I was supposed to have free Sirius XM in my C8 for three months, which has expired. I called to add it and got a real character on the phone. I don't pretend to understand why, but he said "Welllll, since you have such good automotive taste, we're going to give you free satellite radio in the car through the end of the year".

I'm happy about that, and have written that down as a note so that next January I don't start getting billed some ridiculous amount, LOL.

fintail

uplanderguy said:

I can't live without satellite radio in a car. I'll pay to add it even in a rental if I'm taking it on a trip.

You can dicker on it like a Persian rug! Same with OnStar.

I was supposed to have free Sirius XM in my C8 for three months, which has expired. I called to add it and got a real character on the phone. I don't pretend to understand why, but he said "Welllll, since you have such good automotive taste, we're going to give you free satellite radio in the car through the end of the year".

I'm happy about that, and have written that down as a note so that next January I don't start getting billed some ridiculous amount, LOL.

Yep, I do the dance every year, I think my current plan comes out to $6/month, which I don't mind as I use it virtually every time I drive, I can stream it on Sonos, and also on my phone. I can also use it in the fintail, as the old Becker radios were adhead of their time and have the ability to easily add an input - I can attach a headphone jack or bluetooth adapter (hidden under the dash) and listen to it there, too.

That's something - if your plan has streaming, and assuming you have a smartphone, you can stream it via bluetooth in a rental car, no need to pay extra if the service isn't active.

imidazol97

I was supposed to have free Sirius XM in my C8 for three months, which has expired. I called to add it and got a real character on the phone. I don't pretend to understand why, but he said "Welllll, since you have such good automotive taste, we're going to give you free satellite radio in the car through the end of the year".

They didn't offer me a free extension and I have Chevies too. Both of mine. That's good automotive taste.

On a serious note (pun), I did two years free when I bought the 14 Malibu. The saleslady said they had trouble getting the free 6 months to install, but it was working. I think they did something wrong and it was being billed to the dealer or something.

imidazol97

How many here use Windows Defender as their antivirus protection? Or what other antivirus
do you like?

I am tired of Norton. They billed my card for automatic renewal 40 days ahead of expiration.
I called and they wouldn't lower the renewal cost. I paid $29 last year for 5 computers for
Antivirus Deluxe that I've had for years, because I was canceling then.

Along with the constant popups and reminders selling all their upcharge items, including identiy theft,
I'm saying good-bye.

uplanderguy

You know, I don't even know, I'm so low-tech. I use a cheapo tablet and whatever it came with, or whatever the wife chose when she bought it, is whom I still use. I gotta say I've never had an issue (sure to jinx it now). I am not even aware of a billing for it, but there'd probably have to be one.

kyfdx

@imidazol97 I just use whatever came on my Windows computer, plus whatever my ISP provides.

tjc78

@imidazol97 said:
How many here use Windows Defender as their antivirus protection? Or what other antivirus
do you like?

I am tired of Norton. They billed my card for automatic renewal 40 days ahead of expiration.
I called and they wouldn't lower the renewal cost. I paid $29 last year for 5 computers for
Antivirus Deluxe that I've had for years, because I was canceling then.

Along with the constant popups and reminders selling all their upcharge items, including identiy theft,
I'm saying good-bye.

Defender is all I’ve used for a long time now. Never an issue.

My company who has to be PCI compliant relies on it as well. It can’t be that bad….

uplanderguy

RE.: My first car with Sirius was my new '08 Cobalt XFE 4-door, 5-speed, crank windows, ABS, and A/C. I still really liked that car and drove it until 2017. It idled unbelievably silently and smoothly; coworker always thought it had stalled. I don't believe I've owned a car since, either, that had as little road noise. The 'XFE' was "Extreme Fuel Economy" and supposedly the tires were low-rolling-resistance or something like that. I replaced them with the exact same tires.

I do like built-in satellite radio.

imidazol97

That 2.2 L engine was really quiet. My 1.4 L Turbo Cruze is a step noisier, but not objectionable.
Road noise--the Cobalt was super quiet when it had the original tires at 20K. Then they got noisy
as they hardened with a few years age. The Michelins were never as quiet, but they were 80K mi
tires.

I understand the Sirius built-in radio. I only jumped between a few stations and I seemed to hear
the same songs over and over. But I enjoyed the choices. Mainly Soul Town and the summertime
option Yacht Rock.

But I'm enjoying my CD of mp3's when I want to listen to 60 or 70 songs. Tried to install Pandora
but they insisted on a credit card even though I wasn't going to pay for any upgrades. Pandora would use the data on my phone. I have 24 GB for the year and can buy more. But I figured I could get by with that--but ran into that old credit card on file thing.

ab348

I remember that I had a loaner Cobalt when they were still in production and was favorably surprised by it. I recall thinking that if GM had spent just a bit more on the interior to give it things like a front center armrest it would have been quite a tempting car.

sda

I found these pictures of dad's 78 DeVille d'Elegance in period correct dark metallic brown. The interior was really attractive, plush and comfortable.

uplanderguy

I always liked that steering wheel. I think Buick used it in '79 on some Electra models, could be wrong.

ab348

My ‘79 Electra Park Avenue had this wheel:



Some had this wheel which was originally a Cadillac piece, but I don’t know what determined which went where.



I don’t think the one with the big horizontal bar you posted was used in ‘79 Electras.

uplanderguy

'80 Park Avenue:

I love that plum color in the interior, used across the divisions that year, but I always hated the expanse of that particular fake woodgrain and that it was used on the top of the door panels.

uplanderguy

That 'shirred' (I think that's what it was called) velour is a bit much I think. But the epitome of luxury then.