I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

sda

Even in 1980 Cadillac was stingy with standard equipment. Essentially auto, ac, ps pb, pw , am/fm, 2way power seat. Tilt wheel, power locks, rear defrost, cc, intermittent wipers, lighted vanity mirrors, 6 way seat, 60/40 seat, remote trunk release, etc. all options.

uplanderguy

I didn't know GM was still producing a two-way power seat in 1980.

andre1969

I've often wondered, wouldn't it have been cheaper and simpler if they just made some optional equipment standard? For instance, the 2-way power seat. Is it really just "2-way" as in fore/aft? Or does it go up/down as well? I think even back in the 50's, when power seats were a plaything for the rich, they were usually a "4-way". Anyway, with power seats, seems to me by 1980 they should have just made the "6-way" (fore/aft, up/down, tilt...where the whole seat tilts, NOT a backrest recline) standard, in something like a Cadillac. And in lesser cars where a power seat was optional, just offer the 6-way, and forget those intermediate steps.

texases

I read (years ago) that once an option was ordered 90% of the time it often becomes standard (for big 3 cars). Who knows if that was true. Honda took the opposite approach, next to no options, just a few lines to pick from.

sda

sda said:

Even in 1980 Cadillac was stingy with standard equipment. Essentially auto, ac, ps pb, pw , am/fm, 2way power seat. Tilt wheel, power locks, rear defrost, cc, intermittent wipers, lighted vanity mirrors, 6 way seat, 60/40 seat, remote trunk release, etc. all options.

sda said:

Even in 1980 Cadillac was stingy with standard equipment. Essentially auto, ac, ps pb, pw , am/fm, 2way power seat. Tilt wheel, power locks, rear defrost, cc, intermittent wipers, lighted vanity mirrors, 6 way seat, 60/40 seat, remote trunk release, etc. all options.

My bad, 6 way power seat and power locks were standard on the 80 Cadillac. It still surprises me on what I would think in 1980 would be basic and expected equipment on a so-called luxury car such as cruise, tilt, intermittent wipers, etc. are optional.

texases

sda said:

sda said:

Even in 1980 Cadillac was stingy with standard equipment. Essentially auto, ac, ps pb, pw , am/fm, 2way power seat. Tilt wheel, power locks, rear defrost, cc, intermittent wipers, lighted vanity mirrors, 6 way seat, 60/40 seat, remote trunk release, etc. all options.

sda said:

Even in 1980 Cadillac was stingy with standard equipment. Essentially auto, ac, ps pb, pw , am/fm, 2way power seat. Tilt wheel, power locks, rear defrost, cc, intermittent wipers, lighted vanity mirrors, 6 way seat, 60/40 seat, remote trunk release, etc. all options.

My bad, 6 way power seat and power locks were standard on the 80 Cadillac. It still surprises me on what I would think in 1980 would be basic and expected equipment on a so-called luxury car such as cruise, tilt, intermittent wipers, etc. are optional.

Just go to a BMW or Porsche configuration site, nothing's changed!

fintail

sda said:

sda said:

Even in 1980 Cadillac was stingy with standard equipment. Essentially auto, ac, ps pb, pw , am/fm, 2way power seat. Tilt wheel, power locks, rear defrost, cc, intermittent wipers, lighted vanity mirrors, 6 way seat, 60/40 seat, remote trunk release, etc. all options.

sda said:

Even in 1980 Cadillac was stingy with standard equipment. Essentially auto, ac, ps pb, pw , am/fm, 2way power seat. Tilt wheel, power locks, rear defrost, cc, intermittent wipers, lighted vanity mirrors, 6 way seat, 60/40 seat, remote trunk release, etc. all options.

My bad, 6 way power seat and power locks were standard on the 80 Cadillac. It still surprises me on what I would think in 1980 would be basic and expected equipment on a so-called luxury car such as cruise, tilt, intermittent wipers, etc. are optional.

Were power windows really optional?

Maybe all of that is a holdover from the entry level Calais of the mid 60s, which had less equipment.

sda

fintail said:

sda said:

sda said:

Even in 1980 Cadillac was stingy with standard equipment. Essentially auto, ac, ps pb, pw , am/fm, 2way power seat. Tilt wheel, power locks, rear defrost, cc, intermittent wipers, lighted vanity mirrors, 6 way seat, 60/40 seat, remote trunk release, etc. all options.

sda said:

Even in 1980 Cadillac was stingy with standard equipment. Essentially auto, ac, ps pb, pw , am/fm, 2way power seat. Tilt wheel, power locks, rear defrost, cc, intermittent wipers, lighted vanity mirrors, 6 way seat, 60/40 seat, remote trunk release, etc. all options.

My bad, 6 way power seat and power locks were standard on the 80 Cadillac. It still surprises me on what I would think in 1980 would be basic and expected equipment on a so-called luxury car such as cruise, tilt, intermittent wipers, etc. are optional.

Were power windows really optional?

Maybe all of that is a holdover from the entry level Calais of the mid 60s, which had less equipment.

Power windows were standard.

andre1969

When I got online this morning, this ad popped up, on Yahoo. Thought y'all might get a kick out of it...
If anyone ever had any doubts about the internet watching you...

fintail

andre1969 said:

When I got online this morning, this ad popped up, on Yahoo. Thought y'all might get a kick out of it...
If anyone ever had any doubts about the internet watching you...

Right now my marketplace suggestions on mobile are a LeBaron convertible, an older Bentley Continental, an early 90s Fleetwood Brougham, and an 89 Bonneville SSE.

fintail

sda said:

fintail said:

sda said:

sda said:

Even in 1980 Cadillac was stingy with standard equipment. Essentially auto, ac, ps pb, pw , am/fm, 2way power seat. Tilt wheel, power locks, rear defrost, cc, intermittent wipers, lighted vanity mirrors, 6 way seat, 60/40 seat, remote trunk release, etc. all options.

sda said:

Even in 1980 Cadillac was stingy with standard equipment. Essentially auto, ac, ps pb, pw , am/fm, 2way power seat. Tilt wheel, power locks, rear defrost, cc, intermittent wipers, lighted vanity mirrors, 6 way seat, 60/40 seat, remote trunk release, etc. all options.

My bad, 6 way power seat and power locks were standard on the 80 Cadillac. It still surprises me on what I would think in 1980 would be basic and expected equipment on a so-called luxury car such as cruise, tilt, intermittent wipers, etc. are optional.

Were power windows really optional?

Maybe all of that is a holdover from the entry level Calais of the mid 60s, which had less equipment.

Power windows were standard.

Ah, I misread.

It is weird that PL or tilt would still be optional in 1980. I wonder if those were effectively what I call "mandatory options" - technically optional, but it would take a special order to find a car without them, as everything on the lot would be so equipped.

uplanderguy

I'm unable to print it here for some reason, but page 11 of the 1980 Cadillac brochure shows PDL, PW, six-way power seat, AM/FM stereo radio, and a lot of other stuff, was standard equipment. I'd be hard-pressed to think of what other car then had more standard equipment.

https://xr793.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/1980-Cadillac-Prestige.pdf

andre1969

I see in the options section, you can get a 100 amp "generator" Funny they were still using that word, instead of "alternator," as late as 1980!

I always thought of 1980 as sort of a sweet spot for the downsized DeVille/Fleetwood. I prefer the 1980 reskin to the 1977-79 models, and the engine, while smaller and less powerful, still had some dignity to it. The 1981 was probably similar, as long as you snipped the wires to the cylinder deactivation if it started acting up. One thing I've always wondered about that...did you actually have to cut wires, or was it something you could just unplug, like how a lot of modern electronics tend to be more snap-in?

andre1969

On the subject of "mandatory option", and standard equipment, does anyone know when a/c became standard on the Electra and Ninety Eight? I was surprised to learn it was still optional in those cars in the late 70's! I was also a bit shocked to find out that, on my '79 5th Ave, it was also optional.

I guess though, if you lived in a cooler climate, or were one of those types that "it's just something else to break", you could do without a/c. And I hate to make it a generational thing, but I think the older generations were just tougher, when it came to temperature/humidity changes. Or, maybe it's just that climate control has made all of us, regardless of generation, "soft" as we've become acclimated to it?

So if you've never had a/c in a car before, you might have been more willing to take a "who needs it?" sort of attitude. Until you experience it...then it's like "how did I ever live without this?!"

I remember back in college, one of my friends made a comment along the lines of "There's only like four days out of the year you need air conditioning in a car!" That would've been like late 80s/early 90s.

stickguy

Andre, using old timey words probably said a lot about the clientele.

sda

Andrew of Rare Classic Cars has a very nice Olds Delta Royale without ac. For such a nice car, Olds made little effort to disguise the fact it did not have ac with tacked on dash plates covering what would have been ac vents.

xwesx

To be fair, with climate change, we forget that the temperatures once rarely climbed high enough to warrant such luxuries as air conditioning!

uplanderguy

Back to the '80 Cadillac--the brochure doesn't show the Fleetwood coupe anywhere. Apparently that was a mid-model-year addition to the lineup.

fintail

uplanderguy said:

I'm unable to print it here for some reason, but page 11 of the 1980 Cadillac brochure shows PDL, PW, six-way power seat, AM/FM stereo radio, and a lot of other stuff, was standard equipment. I'd be hard-pressed to think of what other car then had more standard equipment.

https://xr793.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/1980-Cadillac-Prestige.pdf

Looks like the same wheelcovers as the TPiR car and the Potamkin cars above - I like those more than the wire caps. I wonder what was optional on a Seville apart from the wire caps.

In 1980, a basic USDM MB (240D) had manual windows, manual seats, manual transmission, vinyl interior, hubcaps, no AC, etc (but was built like a brick outhouse).

fintail

andre1969 said:

On the subject of "mandatory option", and standard equipment, does anyone know when a/c became standard on the Electra and Ninety Eight? I was surprised to learn it was still optional in those cars in the late 70's! I was also a bit shocked to find out that, on my '79 5th Ave, it was also optional.

I guess though, if you lived in a cooler climate, or were one of those types that "it's just something else to break", you could do without a/c. And I hate to make it a generational thing, but I think the older generations were just tougher, when it came to temperature/humidity changes. Or, maybe it's just that climate control has made all of us, regardless of generation, "soft" as we've become acclimated to it?

So if you've never had a/c in a car before, you might have been more willing to take a "who needs it?" sort of attitude. Until you experience it...then it's like "how did I ever live without this?!"

I remember back in college, one of my friends made a comment along the lines of "There's only like four days out of the year you need air conditioning in a car!" That would've been like late 80s/early 90s.

I was like that when I had the fintail as a DD when I was younger - AC? Who needs it? Then I got the W126 which had perfectly functioning AC, and didn't know how I lived without it for so long. Being less young might be part of it too - now I feel like I am roughing it in a car without heated seats, and a heated steering wheel seems silly until you get used to it.

ab348

sda said:

Andrew of Rare Classic Cars has a very nice Olds Delta Royale without ac. For such a nice car, Olds made little effort to disguise the fact it did not have ac with tacked on dash plates covering what would have been ac vents.

My old '78 Delta 88 didn't have A/C and had those blockoff plates. I always thought it would have looked better if they had just installed either mock vent grilles there or the same ones that were on A/C cars and just ducted the cowl floor vents there.

uplanderguy

The worst no-AC 'blockoff' plates were in the '78-80 Malibu and Monte Carlo, at the right end of the instrument panel. Our no-AC '80 Monte Carlo had an assembly line goof where there was an A/C vent, chromed, installed where the blockoff would normally have been. It looked so much better. My Dad was skeptical when I told him that was a goof. No air ever came out of it, LOL.

roadburner

I mentioned this before, but back in 1980 I was looking for a small sporty car that got decent gas mileage. My local Lincoln-Mercury dealer had a Capri RS Turbo company car at a very attractive price- I would have bought it except for the fact that, while it was equipped with most every conceivable option, it lacked A/C.

explorerx4

So Fin, what do you think of this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj2hLKP_1ec

xwesx

Impressive!

I think I would call that color mustard yellow; definitely not enough orange for school bus yellow.

fintail

explorerx4 said:

So Fin, what do you think of this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj2hLKP_1ec

Cool car. Someone had unique taste! Velour is a really rare option (I believe was a no charge selection from leather which would have been standard on a 500SEL, at least per sales material I remember reading) on USDM cars, and the color, well, the customer is always right in matters of taste. I didn't watch it all, but that was a top of the line car in its day, MSRP was probably around 50K in those dollars. W126s had an insanely wide color palette:

https://www.w126-wiki.de/index.php?title=Lackierung_und_Polster

http://www.meinbenz.de/farben/126/Farbcodes126.htm

uplanderguy

I always thought of 1980 as sort of a sweet spot for the downsized DeVille/Fleetwood. I prefer the 1980 reskin to the 1977-79 models

You know, I never used to think this, but I think I do now.

For some reason, I think I like the '80 Pontiac reskin better than the earlier ones too.

Buick, I think they're about equal. Olds, I like better in '80 with the round wheel openings.

Chevy, I greatly miss the wraparound rear window and notched quarter windows from the '77-79, in the '80.

fintail

I think for 80, the Caprice coupe went formal instead of at least a pretense of sport with the cool rear window. Formal seemed to be a thing then, see what happened to the Malibu when it became the G-body as well. The Caddy change in 80 does look more modern and clean, but the weird B-pillar in the Fleetwood still catches my eye.

andre1969

I've always been convinced that GM intended to do the Bonneville-G treatment on the Impala/Caprice, Delta 88, and LeSabre for 1982, but then for whatever reason, backed off on the other three at the last minute. At least, that's my theory on why the '82 Malibu looks an awful lot like a scaled-down Caprice, and the '82 Regal/Cutlass Supreme sedans have more than a passing resemblance to the bigger cars. It was less pronounced with Buick/Olds though, as both of those had more of a sloping rear that mimicked the personal luxury coupes a bit. And the Regal's front looked kind of like a more upright version of the coupe, although it also looks a bit like it's trying to mimic the full-sized cars as well, although the Electra, moreso than the LeSabre.

If GM was thinking of doing that though, I wonder what tipped them off into only going through with the Bonneville? Maybe they were seeing that the Chevy and Delta 88 were still selling well, in spite of the recession/fuel crisis? Interestingly, in 1981 the Bonneville outsold the LeSabre, something like 93K to 84K units (unless I'm adding wrong; I just eyeballed the figures in my old car book). But, the Catalina only sold about 10K units. Meanwhile, Buick also had the Electra, which sold about 74,000 units. And since the LeSabre/Electra shared a lot of components, it might have made sense to keep the LeSabre around. The bulk of the LeSabre sales were also the pricier Limited, whereas the base Bonneville outsold the Brougham, so perhaps that shift towards the better-trimmed Buicks had something to do with it?

I've heard there were also rumors of Pontiac being dropped entirely, around 1982-83. But, for a brand they thought about dropping, it's interesting that they still tried to keep it mostly full-line, and even got back into fullsized cars in mid-1983. By the time they started selling Parisiennes in the States though, I imagine the decision to drop Pontiac had been reversed. Or just never was that serious of a thought, in the first place?

andre1969

With the bigger cars, I think the C-body coupes took well to that upright, personal luxury coupe look for 1980, but I didn't care for it as much with the B-bodies. I thought it looked okay, but the cars seemed to lose their uniqueness. Although I guess when you really think about it, in 1977-79, they really only had two basic rooflines. The Chevy, with the wraparound rear window, and the B-O-P roofline, with Buick/Pontiac having a large triangular window, and the Olds having a smaller, upright window and thicker C-pillar. And then, with Pontiac they'd sometimes do those thick padded landau roofs with the smaller windows...those always looked awkward to me. I can't remember if Buick did that with the LeSabre, as well?

But yeah, with the B-bodies, they seemed to lose any sporting pretense, and went for a big personal luxury coupe look. I think the Catalina/Bonneville and Delta 88 pulled it off the best. With the LeSabre, I think the overall car looks fine, but I thought the front of the '80-83 looked a bit cheap. The '84-85 looked a lot more upscale. And the Chevy, while nice looking, just isn't as unique. Or "sporty-pretending".

texases

Odd couple on the way to work - a 1980-ish El Camino driving next to a Taycan.

laurasdada

texases said:

Odd couple on the way to work - a 1980-ish El Camino driving next to a Taycan.

Was there a portable generator in the bed of the El?

laurasdada

Walking the dog today, coming down the hill towards us, what appeared to be an original Toyota FJ40. Red, right-hand drive and emitting a decent amount of blue smoke from the exhaust.

xwesx

Well, if it is not original, then it's a dead ringer, anyway.

fintail

Here's something obscure that popped up in a group I'm in. A barnfind in Germany - looks like a normal 67 Bonneville, although on a plate prefix that was apparently retired in 1973, maybe not too odd as servicemen brought cars over and sold them on the open market etc:



But inside it gets a little unexpected - speedometer is in kilometers and the owner's manual (which says Tempest - maybe it is Pontiac + Tempest with Tempest existing as a sub brand) on the floor is in German. An export model of something this late has to be rare:

uplanderguy

No A/C, since it has the nameplate at the upper center of the panel as opposed to vents there.

Pontiac often combined "Pontiac" (full-size) and "Tempest" in the same Owner's Manual. That always struck me as a bit odd because they are totally different cars, really. I wonder if Buick or Olds did the same. Our '67 Chevelle had a Chevelle-only Owner's Manual. Now that I think about it, I do think at some point Chevy had a combined Nova and Camaro Owner's Manual, but I'm foggy on what years. Possibly the same for Chevelle and Monte Carlo.

EDIT: Well apparently, my memory on the shared Chevy Owner's Manuals is wrong. I looked at '71 and '72 manuals online and Chevelle and Monte Carlo were separate and Nova and Camaro were separate.

uplanderguy

I've posted this pic before, and, although I'm sure my old-car days are behind me, I could certainly enjoy one of these, probably in a coupe, but even the four-door is attractive to my eyes.

Elegant and simple from bumper to bumper, and a nice interior. I liked how they put smoked gloss black below the speedometer and down to the radio, instead of fake woodgrain.

The next year's 'Concours' replaced this model, but to me some of the trim got kind-of pimped out in comparison.

I almost never saw these cars when new, and I can't tell you when I last saw one, period.

Ford's Granada sales trounced it, and did it looking different than a Maverick, but I do see a bit of BMW influence in the rear door shape and air extractor vents behind the doors.

Make mine a 350, with Turbine wheels to replace the wheel covers. The Turbines were on the option list.

uplanderguy

Just saw this on barnfinds. I could be persuaded, even though I don't really care for the Landau package on those cars. I'd rather have the scooped-out Sport Wheel Covers than the wires the Landaus have, and no vinyl top. But 47 years in, beggars can't be choosers of course.

Has the 350, check. Custom Interior option, check. Optional round instruments, check. No mention that I could see, of it had F41 suspension or not.

Sure looks like a three-year-old car from what I can see, and it's hard to find one that hasn't been all screwed up IMHO.

I didn't study the ad, but unless I'm missing something, I gotta believe this car will sell at or near its asking price.

EDIT: Ah, snap. Two parallel cracks in dash pad. The number of these cars I see online without cracked dashes makes me think someone is reproducing them, although the six-cylinder Caprice Classic I see around here doesn't have cracks and is on its original.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/225971044816?mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&siteid=0&campid=5337836973&customid=693086&toolid=10001&mkevt=1

andre1969

That Caprice is nice. That Firethorn (or whatever Chevy called it) is the color my '76 LeMans would be, if it had been properly repainted.

I'm going out on a limb and say it probably doesn't have the F41, but I could be wrong. My rationale behind this is that it looks like they skimped in the wheel department. Those are probably just the stock 15x6 or whatever rims, and it probably originally came with 205/75-R15 tires, although the current set is a slightly larger 215/75. I was under the impression that most of the 350 cars tended to be ordered with 15x7 rims and 225/70/R15 tires, as well as the F41. But I'm thinking if the original owner (or whatever dealer ordered it, perhaps) skimped on the wheels/tires, they might have skimped on the suspension, as well?

You're probably right on the price, but I'm really seeing how out of touch I am. I just keep thinking something like that shouldn't be more than $5 or $6K! Now perhaps if it was absolutely perfect, and ultra-low miles. But in one of those pics, it looks like there's some kind of paint overspray by the rear left taillight, the filler between the rear bumper and body is cracked to hell, and I have a feeling all that chrome isn't going to look nearly as shiny in person. But, if it was absolutely perfect, I'm sure it would fetch even more. I wonder what it will actually go for?

uplanderguy

Those tires do look smaller than what I remember on those cars with the F-41.

A fellow I know some, who now sells Mopars and Jeeps in my old hometown, was the son of the longtime office equipment and supplies store owner in town.

They had a new, Firethorn, four-door '77 Caprice, white vinyl top, the interior and gauges of the above car for sale, F41, and the Sport wheel covers. Even though a sedan, it always turned my head.

He told me around this past Christmastime, that he also really liked that car, and that the '83 that replaced it, he didn't like as well. I remember in '83 the Caprice was on C&D's "Ten Best Cars" list, and personally I don't think that was 'bought' as I might say about MT (LOL), but as we've discussed, I just don't like the later Caprices as well either....even the seats.

andre1969

I always liked the '75-79 Nova in general, although wasn't a fan of the pretentious Concours grille, and I wasn't so crazy about the later models with the rectangular headlights.

I used to think it was a bit curious that sales of the '75 tanked, compared to '74. But I think the Granada/Monarch had a lot to do with that. Plus, the economy in general. 1974 was a bad year, but mostly for bigger cars. Smaller cars still sold pretty well, and may have even gotten a boost by buyers trading their guzzlers for something more economical. But that probably pulled a lot of sales forward. And then, for 1975, the economy was even worse, so sales of just about all cars suffered, not just big ones.

The Nova looked great to me, but I always thought the interiors seemed cheap on the '75-79 generation, unless you opted for something like an LN or Concours. Although maybe the mid-line Custom or whatever wasn't TOO bad. In contrast, I think the Granada is kind of tacky looking and too ostentatious, but inside, even the cheapest models made you feel like you were in a luxury car, if your imagination was vivid enough.

But, despite that pretentiousness, the Granada/Monarch did something that few compacts that came before couldn't. Get buyers of bigger, more luxurious cars into something smaller.

uplanderguy

The dopey stuff I remember....versus the daily stuff I don't....

My hometown dealer had a new, Firethorn, '75 Nova Custom Coupe in stock for a long time. It was a 262 V8, THM, PS, PDB, AM radio, Exterior Decor Group (body side moldings and to me, the all-important bright metal trim around the door glass and quarter windows), Rally Wheels, and whitewalls. It was $4,163 at the bottom of the sticker. I wanted that car in the worst way.

The Custom had a pretty nice interior, especially compared to the taxicab-grade regular Nova. The optional red all-vinyl interior the car I remember, had, was pretty nice. It was sort-of leather-like, other than it was perforated in a million little pin holes and had a vetical metal button in each seat back position (four in total). Door panels had a strip of fake woodgrain. And around the instruments, instead of the hard black wavy plastic the base car had, it had the smoked gloss black panel below the speedometer and down to the radio, a great improvement to my eyes.

I bet that car hung around six months. Could never figure that out.

I sorta liked that perforated vinyl. Some GM's at the time--Le Sabre Customs, in my memory--had vinyl that they went to great lengths to show some grain in. Those reminded me of Naugahyde recliners.

fintail

That Caprice is pretty but I something about the paint puts me off, annd dash cracks in one for that price aren't acceptable. Also odd that it is in CA on a relatively recent WA plate - maybe to get around smogging it. For that price it needs to be closer to perfect.

texases

Had a '72 Grand Prix pass me going the other way last night. Haven't seen one of those in years/decades.

sda

The Mercury Grand Monarch Ghia had an especially plush interior. It was discontinued for 77 when the Lincoln Versailles debuted. Notice the chrome door handles are
similar to those used in the Versailles.


Pictures posted out of sequence. Grand Monarch interior is on the bottom.

roadburner

I remember the Car and Driver tagline for their test of the Versailles:
"A Granada goes to JC Whitney"

texases

The car I want from that era/size would be the Seville:

fintail

I low key like the Versailles. Make mine a 77-78 with the more "Mercedes" like roofline. When I was a kid a relative had one, a 78, and it was hard loaded - moonroof, leather, fancier stereo, kind of disc-turbine type wheels, it seemed seriously nice even later into the 80s. The YT videos of them all seem to have rich interior materials - the Granada isn't hidden well on the outside, but they look plush. I'd take one in my malaise garage to park beside a bustleback Seville.

kyfdx

texases said:

Had a '72 Grand Prix pass me going the other way last night. Haven't seen one of those in years/decades.

My step-brother had a '72 or '73. Had whatever package that everyone wanted, though the nomenclature has left my memory. He traded a '70 Monte Carlo for it.

sda

I would prefer the 77 or 78 with the 351 and moonroof. I think 78 was the last year for the 351, perhaps it was 77, otherwise they had the 302. Neither were quick, but the 351 seemed a bit better matched. In the late 80s I looked at a white 77 Versailles with sunroof to buy as my commuter car to the office. It was $1500.00. It drove poorly, wandered all over the road and had a power steering leak. I passed. Bought an 82 Skylark for $1400.00 that served me well.