I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

ab348

The Versailles was based on the Granada, which was based on the Maverick which was based on the Falcon. They all drove badly. Even though the Seville had a lot of Nova in it, GM did a much better job of modifying and re-engineering much of that platform to create the Seville than Ford did with the Granada/Versailles.

uplanderguy

I always liked the '75-79 Nova in general, although wasn't a fan of the pretentious Concours grille, and I wasn't so crazy about the later models with the rectangular headlights.

Same here. Grille was way too chromy; stand-up hood ornament , body side moldings went over the front wheel openings, and optionally had those enormous chrome wheel opening moldings that looked like aftermarket. Too pimpy overall.

texases

I particularly like the Seville's fuel injected Olds engine, even though it would be difficult to service these days, I bet.

ab348

That Caprice is curious. I also noted what looks like overspray on the left rear corner. Also, one pic of the drivers door shows what looks like white paint on the interior side of the window frame. I don’t think it is bright metal. Those cars suffered from the typical GM poor-quality interior trim in this era, and red cars were the worst in that regard. Plastic pieces like armrest bases turned the color of a pink rose after a decade or so, and of course the foam-backed material on the headliner and sun visors failed and sagged. Yet this car does not show that. The plastichrome on exterior pieces was also a not long-lived. A mystery.

andre1969

I think the Camaro DNA really went a long way to making the Seville, and the rest of the '75-79 X-bodies, have really nice proportions. The long hood, with the front wheels out towards the front, and not a whole lot of front overhang, give it a really nice profile.

IIRC, the Seville's wheelbase was 114.3", compared to 111.0" for the other X-bodies. I'm guessing the extra wheelbase went into the rear door and back seat area, as the Seville's doors do look a bit longer to me, but somehow, the front wheels look a bit further forward to me, as well. According to EPA interior volumes, the 4-door Nova had 96 cubic feet of interior volume, and the Seville was slightly more, at 97, so it actually was slightly roomier inside, in some dimensions at least.

The Granada/Monarch and Versailles were on a shorter 109.9" wb, and just seem stubbier to me, with more front overhang especially. According to the EPA, the Granada had 93 cubic feet of passenger volume, while the Versailles was slightly less, at 92. I'm guessing perhaps the thicker door panels, and perhaps plusher seats, might have reduced some measurements ever so slightly.

I think the Versailles would have worked well as a smaller Lincoln, perhaps priced a bit lower than the big ones, for buyers who wanted the style and luxury of a Lincoln, but in a smaller package. But instead they priced it above the big cars, trying to compete more head-to-head with the Seville. But, the Seville just seemed so much more modern, and with a bit of European influence, as it was trying to go after that market a bit. Basically, meant for a buyer wanted something a bit more Euro-esque, but still staying with Cadillac. Meanwhile, other than the French name, the Versailles didn't have anything Euro about it.

In 1979, when they gave it that thick C-pillar and re-worked rear door glass, buyers responded and sales did shoot up. But, I wonder if rising fuel prices and the oil embargo, that hit later in '79, might have had something to do with that? Even though that thicker C-pillar did differentiate it a bit from the Granada/Monarch, I thought it was a bit awkward on the car, and prefer the trimmer looking '77-78.

With GM's FWD X-bodies, the Skylark was always my favorite. Nice styling overall, and some pretty plush interiors. The Omega had a nice interior as well, but I thought the front-end seemed a bit clumsy on the car. And with the Phoenix, I didn't care for the hatchback they forced on the 4-door. The coupe was nice, though. And there was a couple years in there, where if you got one of those upper trim levels, like SJ or LJ, it had a nice, clean grille that stripped away some of the complexity that the other models had.

uplanderguy

The Skylark instrument panel revised me of a scaled-down LeSabre panel, a good thing.

andre1969

I just had a facebook memory pop up, from this day, 8 years ago. Thought y'all might get a kick out of this...

And in sharp contrast, today it got warm enough that I had to kick on the central a/c!

explorerx4

Saw this beauty today while dog walking.

kyfdx

Browns fan

Michaell

kyfdx said:

Browns fan

Browns player?

explorerx4

I guess that means they are getting married. Was at a wedding dress store.

fintail

Not my preferred trim, but the color is acceptable.

tjc78

My wife saw a G wagon the other day and said it’s the ugliest thing she ever saw. She asked what it was and I told her. Exact comment was “that’s what all the celebrities drive…. Why?’

andre1969

That's not a color that would normally pop into my mind, but I think that G wagon wears it well. As for why celebrities go for it, maybe it's that rugged, retro look that really stands out and draws attention to itself? Celebrities tend to like attention, regardless of whether it's in good taste or not. Although, I don't mind the styling of these.

tjc78

I feel like it tries too hard to be rugged… I mean if they sell 25K a year, 5 of them may actually see off road

uplanderguy

Does absolutely zero for me. Not a real shocker though.

fintail

I think celebrities also like it because it is generally the most expensive model available. Gotta be a little brash.

My ideal build would not be an AMG, and would have basic wheels.

fintail

sda said:

I would prefer the 77 or 78 with the 351 and moonroof. I think 78 was the last year for the 351, perhaps it was 77, otherwise they had the 302. Neither were quick, but the 351 seemed a bit better matched. In the late 80s I looked at a white 77 Versailles with sunroof to buy as my commuter car to the office. It was $1500.00. It drove poorly, wandered all over the road and had a power steering leak. I passed. Bought an 82 Skylark for $1400.00 that served me well.

I think I have told the story before - back around the summer of 1996, I was at home and some teenaged friends of my brother who were also friendly with me and treated my mom like their second mom, twin brothers, were given a car (to share) by their parents. It must have came from an estate sale - it was an 81 Skylark sedan in I think that same color combo. It was heavily optioned, I am pretty sure it also had power options and a plush interior. It was a very low mileage car, I want to say it had like 15K on it at the time, Even then that situation irked be a bit, as there was no question those kids were going to eventually destroy that car, and it seemed sad. Just a 15 year old used car at the time, but already seeming kind of old, and there were few nice X cars left even by then. I remember we all went to the drive-in in the Skylark and saw the big blockbusters of that summer, Twister and Independence Day.

I recall they were given the car to keep them away from their parents cars - I recall the mom had a big 90s Roadmaster, and the dad had a pristine maybe 78-79 F150 supercab on Magnum 500 style wheels in that black and silver two tone that seems not uncommon on late 70s Ford trucks. I think I recall one of the kids scratching it, which created some drama. IIRC around Y2K I visited and one of the kids had joined the army, and was visiting in his new Mustang (because of course) which I have a vague memory of hearing was later wrecked (because of course).

fintail

sda said:

The Mercury Grand Monarch Ghia had an especially plush interior. It was discontinued for 77 when the Lincoln Versailles debuted. Notice the chrome door handles are

Pictures posted out of sequence. Grand Monarch interior is on the bottom.

The Versailles seating looks nice. And floor shift with console, wow.

stickguy

A jelly bean Taurus wagon. Looked tired.

uplanderguy

Speaking of early Seville recently, this was my friend's '77 until Oct. '22. He was working on the exhaust when a leaky fuel injector caused this fire. Luckily, he wasn't hurt and ironically, his insurance company had the car picked up at his home and taken to a recycler in my old hometown, which is an hour away.

He has since bought a '93 Allante and an '06 XLR. His parents had Cadillacs through the years and he grew up quite near Central Cadillac, a decades-old dealer near downtown Cleveland. His parents owned a bar and light lunch place a few blocks away and had retirement parties there for some Central Cadillac employees.

That's his '98 (I think) Mark VIII.

This was a pretty nice Seville. It had light turquoise cloth seating, unusual I think.

uplanderguy

Just looked at eBay at that '77 Caprice Classic Landau coupe again. Yeesh, there are 25 days left on the auctiion. Since it's "$17,995 or best offer", I don't know if the sale price will be public there or not.

fin, did you notice the label from the original dealer on the decklid, abbreviated Washington as 'WN'? LOL

uplanderguy

Here's an X car I would like, even with my disdain of big graphics. The rather-rare '84 Citation II X-11 coupe.

I guess I'd put up with the graphics to get those tires and wheels, and the H.O. engine, although I'm thinking that engine was available across-the-line although too lazy to look at a brochure. I'd get the manual shift. (EDIT: The H.O. engine was available on all X-cars.)

I liked how the Citation's taillights resembled (to me) the '78 Malibu Classic, which I always liked a lot from the start. I never cared for the hatchback coupe's really looonnngg quarter windows which gave it a football look.

fintail

uplanderguy said:

Just looked at eBay at that '77 Caprice Classic Landau coupe again. Yeesh, there are 25 days left on the auctiion. Since it's "$17,995 or best offer", I don't know if the sale price will be public there or not.

fin, did you notice the label from the original dealer on the decklid, abbreviated Washington as 'WN'? LOL

Yep, that was a thing in the olden days, even on license plates into the 20s. Kind of surprised to see it on that sticker. That dealer existed until just a few years ago, apparently bought out by a conglomerate as is the trend these days.

Those Citation notchbacks seem to be rare anymore. I always thought the 3 door resembled a football too, something in its proportions.

uplanderguy

Watching B-J now. ‘56 Gullwing brought $3.1 mil. Craig Jackson said it was the best one he’d seen and driven. It was stunning. Wife liked the plaid seats. I was reminded of how awkward it must’ve been to get in and out of one of those!

uplanderguy

Just occurred to me, that the Citation was the only two-door hatch among the X-cars. And no hatches at all at Olds and Buick. They did do a good job of differentiating those cars among the divisions. I gotta believe had it been Ford or Chrysler, they'd have all shared instrument panels.

andre1969

If the X-bodies had been Ford or Chrysler, in addition to dashboards, they would also have most likely shared at much sheetmetal as possible, so the only things truly unique would be the easy-swap stuff up front or in back.

One thing I've noticed about Chrysler in general, is that even when they do try to make things look different, they still often have that same, "corporateness" about them. I think one good example is the 1974-75 full-size Fury/Gran Fury and Monaco, the models with the quad headlights. Most of the sheetmetal is unique, with the Monaco having a a spear crease that's reminiscent of a Buick LeSabre, but to me the cars just seem mostly interchangeable. They could have swapped nameplates, and I don't think anybody really would have noticed. In contrast, during that timeframe nobody would have mistaken a full-sized Pontiac for a Chevy.

The big Plymouth/Dodge did become a bit more unique, when the Dodges went to hidden headlights and the Gran Fury that front-end with the single round headlights, but by then nobody was really buying them, except police and taxi fleets.

By the time the R-body came out, just about all of the sheetmetal was the same across all divisions. I think the only piece of sheetmetal on the New Yorker/5th Ave that's unique is the trunk lid. But doors, fenders, rear quarter panels, hood, all the same. In fact, I saw a facebook ad where someone was selling a 1980 Gran Fury copcar, and it looked like they were throwing in some rear quarter panels that had been cut from a 5th Avenue. That's something akin to being able to swap a Cadillac rear quarter with an Impala. Heck, you couldn't even swap one with a Ninety-Eight or Electra, as far as I know!

sda

I’ve probably mentioned this before, the leather in the late 70s Chrysler products was soft and supple, unlike the stiff leather used today. I remember a good friend’s dad bought a new 76 Volare Premier 2dr. It was silver with dark red landau top and interior. It was a lightly optioned car, ps, pb, auto, radio delete, 225 6, full wheel covers, white walls. I was a handsome car. I was impressed with how nice the interior was. Thick carpet, nice padded door panels, very comfortable split bench seats. The red vinyl upholstery was also soft and supple. I was impressed with the car back then. I was still in high school. And sadly the Volare suffered from the maladies typical of them. Early rust, carb and drive ability issues. It was replaced with a base 79 Electra 225.

uplanderguy

When I first saw the '74 Monaco, I thought they used an Impala as a template, especially in four-door form. The huge curved windshield; A-pillars slim and covered entirely in bright metal; rear door shape; and pronounced, crowned front fenders were all "Impala" IMHO.

I agree, leather was buttery-soft and expensive-looking compared to the past fifteen or whatever years, sigh. I do think soft leather got wear creases and such fairly easily back then. Cadillac offered something in their Calais models then called 'expanded vinyl' and to me it looked like leather but probably wore significantly better.

When the Volare came out, I liked it a good bit. No one else was making a wagon in that class, and the coupe had the gentle fastback look and large quarter windows that I favored then. I thought the Valiant and Dart were quite long-in-the-tooth by then.

fintail

uplanderguy said:

Watching B-J now. ‘56 Gullwing brought $3.1 mil. Craig Jackson said it was the best one he’d seen and driven. It was stunning. Wife liked the plaid seats. I was reminded of how awkward it must’ve been to get in and out of one of those!

They have a very wide sill and I believe they can be hot inside. There's a reason the roadster sold much better, even if it had less iconic styling. To think, you could pick those things up as used cars around 1970 for maybe 5K.

In 2009 there was a concours show near Seattle, and part of the theme was the 50th anniversary of the Seattle MB dealer (who IIRC was standalone with no Stude connection, although in some distant way may have had a Packard link). I want to say 8 or 9 gullwings showed up, it was pretty amazing.

andre1969

This beast popped up in the Brougham Society on facebook...
1975 Electra Custom Coupe
By this time, I actually prefer these as a 4-door, which was still a true hardtop, but have to admit, the color on this one really caught my eye. However, I'm not so crazy about the fabric on the seats, which seems to clash with the rest of the interior.

uplanderguy

I like the color too, and of course the Buick Road Wheels are the best factory wheels of that period.

I gotta believe those cloth seat inserts have faded over the years.

Small thing, but someone added the big chrome "BUICK" on the instrument panel. It always makes me crazy when people do stuff like that.

The whitewalls look a bit narrower than stock then, but they actually look better!

fintail

Of all the things to end up in Czechia, one needs to be careful with that in some areas there or you might re-enact this:

stickguy

If I am getting a land yacht that big, is would be a half ton PU so it at least has some practical value.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

I gotta believe those cloth seat inserts have faded over the years.

I looked up the brochure and that is the right fabric pattern, but the color does seem to have changed over the years. The original was identifiable as green.

uplanderguy

With regard to our leather comments a few posts up, came across this pic on FB....'66 Fleetwood Brougham. I'm generally not a fan of huge cars, but to me, this year and model is probably the last great Cadillac, IMHO (although I sometimes think the '71-72 Brougham is). Check out this 122K mile original leather:

xwesx

uplanderguy said:

Speaking of early Seville recently, this was my friend's '77 until Oct. '22. He was working on the exhaust when a leaky fuel injector caused this fire. Luckily, he wasn't hurt and ironically, his insurance company had the car picked up at his home and taken to a recycler in my old hometown, which is an hour away.

He has since bought a '93 Allante and an '06 XLR. His parents had Cadillacs through the years and he grew up quite near Central Cadillac, a decades-old dealer near downtown Cleveland. His parents owned a bar and light lunch place a few blocks away and had retirement parties there for some Central Cadillac employees.

That's his '98 (I think) Mark VIII.

This was a pretty nice Seville. It had light turquoise cloth seating, unusual I think.

Looks like it also came with the smoked glass option! Nice.

laurasdada

So, ICE cars can catch fire? Not just EVs? Who knew?
Glad no one was hurt, nor widespread damage.

texases

Regarding my interest in that era Seville...never mind.

uplanderguy

This happened in his outbuilding. His fire extinguisher didn't work; he got in the car and threw it in reverse and backed out. He was sweating a bigger fire but his township's VFD got there relatively quick.

He was lucky and knows it.

I still like the packaging and styling of the cars, pretty timeless IMHO but it is early FI.

This was a low-mileage car, about 20K.

uplanderguy

Conversation here earlier, about no AC-car instrument panel 'plugs'....how about this '72 Cadillac Calais panel?

I gotta say, I sort-of like the Calais, just because it's multiple-times rarer than a deVille and the interior is still pretty nice (with A/C!). But check out the 'plugs'!

uplanderguy

Yes, my friend's 45-year-old ICE car caught fire. And hey, the volunteer fire department was actually able to put it out!

sda

uplanderguy said:

Conversation here earlier, about no AC-car instrument panel 'plugs'....how about this '72 Cadillac Calais panel?

I gotta say, I sort-of like the Calais, just because it's multiple-times rarer than a deVille and the interior is still pretty nice (with A/C!). But check out the 'plugs'!

No effort to hide one went cheap.

andre1969

I think the difference between an electric car and an ICE, is that most likely, my DeSoto isn't going to just randomly catch on fire on a whim, in the middle of the night. And then burn so hot that the fire department is probably going to drain my 50,000 gallon pool to put it out. Well & septic out here, and I don't even know where the nearest hydrant is!

I've had cars leak fuel before...old, leaky carbs, fuel hoses, etc. Even when it's hot and running, it usually just drips on something hot and evaporates. But I guess with fuel injection, the fuel might come out in a highly pressurized mist, which would be more likely to ignite?

That being said, I have a feeling that the whole EV igniting things is probably overblown by the media, in a similar vein to the Pinto, back in the late 70's. And cars catching fire in general these days is probably rare enough, that whenever it happens, it makes the headlines.

On the subject of the '72 Cadillac, I didn't realize a/c was still an option in '72! I figured by then, the Calais at least had a/c, but perhaps just a cheaper interior. Was a/c standard on a DeVille by then? The Calais was about $400 cheaper, which is just about the price of a/c back then, if I'm not mistaken.

Those vent plugs on the non-ac cars look bad, in just about every application though. They would look worlds better if they just put in the vent deflectors, but didn't hook them up. Or, maybe put something right behind them, because I guess with a dummy vent, you might be able to see into the innards of the dashboard, and that might look unfinished, as well.

uplanderguy

I'm fairly sure A/C was optional even on a DeVille by '72.

I've posted this before, but I 100% remember a new '72 Calais 4-door hardtop at our local Chevy-Cadillac dealer. I saw it once and never saw it in or around town again. It was black, black cloth interior, no A/C and no radio! Blackwall tires. There was a filler block where the radio normally would be. The car had zero options. The bottom of the window sticker was the base car plus destination charge. The total was $6,480.00.

It did have power windows as those were standard by that time.

The Calais did not have the DeVille's rocker trim, nor a rear-seat center armrest, nor fake wood on the instrument panel. I'm not sure the black on the panel looks worse than fake woodgrain, LOL. It's rare to see a Calais on the ground today for sure.

I think I get the allure back then--Electras and Ninety-Eights, you could still see some of the lower-priced full-sizes in the front fenders, instrument panel, and engine displacement. Caddy had its own engine and only sold one size of car. If you bought at a Caddy dealer, there is a chance it was a Caddy-only dealer (though in my small hometown it was teamed with Chevy). There might've been some perceived difference there, I don't know.

One of our neighbors who my Dad thought was a social climber, traded in their '68 Bel Air wagon for a one-year-old '69 Calais coupe in light turquoise. I could see him as a guy who wanted people to see him driving a Caddy.

A minor oddity about the '71-73 Calais is that the nameplate on the fenders said "Cadillac". The only place it said "Calais" was on the decklid. They only put one "Calais" nameplate on the entire car.

ab348

I think the only way it made sense to buy a Calais instead of a DeVille is if you didn't add on many/any options. Otherwise it would have made far more sense to buy the DeVille with its longer list of standard equipment which pretty much offset the higher price compared to the Calais. Plus the DeVille was nicer inside and had better resale.

uplanderguy

Looking at the '72 brochure online, even then a vinyl top and air conditioning were extra on a deVille, as were power door locks. The deVille did have dual lighters for the back seat, but my guess is that this was not an option on the Calais.

stickguy

There is a guy living near my son that has a tired looking original Land Rover. Shorter 2 door, spare on the hood, the whole deal. Uses it too because it street parks and moves around.

Went by Sunday, and now has a Unimog parked in the driveway. Not something you often see in Albany.

sda

These are fun to watch. I don’t know german but can follow along. Comments can be translated to english.
https://youtu.be/dqrpBoD7jNQ?si=JW9PB-i_EENcW4iS

sda

Paging @roadburner https://youtu.be/fSoZbxvpARg?si=wgow30yOsg3eZggD