I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

uplanderguy

Spotted this past rainy Sunday in town. I've mentioned this car here before. '77 Caprice Classic sedan, looks totally original, sits nicely at all four corners, zips down the road at a smart clip...and I found out talking to the owner a few months back, that it's a straight six (250), pretty rare on a Caprice. I think I've seen one Impala of that gen with a straight six, but never a Caprice until this one.

Interior is nice, dash pad has no cracks, but it does have the saggy headliner, typical of the time and you can even see that in this pic.

I still like these cars, for a combination of modern-for-the-time concept, good use of interior space versus exterior size, lines that remind me in profile of a Seville (and rear door of a '63 Lark, LOL), and an old car that still seems halfways relevant to today.

uplanderguy

Sixty years ago today, this '64 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop was the last car off the U.S. regular production line at South Bend. This 109-inch wheelbase car was equipped with a 240 hp Avanti R1 engine, disc brakes, and 4-speed. The company donated it to the City of South Bend and it is a NOS Studebaker, with just under 24 miles.

Studebaker decreed that no photos would be taken of the last car, as they didn't want the public to think they were going out of the automobile business, just that subsequent cars would be built at the smaller, newer, Hamilton, Ontario plant, but a local reporter took film of it coming down the line which was shown on NBC Nightly News with Huntley and Brinkley that night.

Supposedly it's the most-requested car at the museum to be reviewed up-close, since it is as-built, even the tires.

sda

I would imagine the 250 six would be smoother and accelerate about the same as the 231 V6 offered in the other GM full size cars. I don’t think it had the timing chain issues as the 231 either, so probably longer lasting. Did they kill the 250 because of it not meeting emissions? Is it a non-a/c car?

uplanderguy

I don't know why they killed the 250, other than maybe by 1980 it was as old as Methuselah, LOL.

I can't recall if the car has A/C or not, darn it.

laurasdada

Yesterday, I spotted a Pontiac Aztek! Be still, my beating heart!

uplanderguy

I plainly remember the first Aztek I ever saw. I was driving home from work in Austintown, OH on back roads as there was an accident on I-76. Near Lordstown it appeared on the road, school bus yellow, with manufacturer's plates. I was pretty stunned. With all the goofy designs since, it looks less-goofy to me now (as I say, "Volume normalizes bad, or at least 'meh', styling", LOL).

xwesx

laurasdada said:

Yesterday, I spotted a Pontiac Aztek! Be still, my beating heart!

Yeah, it's rather scary if you're not anticipating it!

andre1969

This is conjecture on my part, but I think towards the end, the 250 did have issues with emissions controls, and the California versions were especially choked down. Although oddly, the engine that replaced it, the Chevy 229, never met CA emissions at all, and was substituted with a Buick 231 in that market.

Looking at the old numbers on the EPA website, it looks like the 250 was also a bit of a pig later in its run. For instance, in 1979, it had a city rating of 15, while the 305 and even the 350 were rated at 16!

For 1980, the 229 was city-rated at 18. The 267 and 305 were rated at 17. The 350, now police-car only, was rated 14.

For whatever reason, from 1979-83, the EPA only listed the city number for their fuel economy ratings. No highway or combined. Another oddity...for 1980, The Buick 231 was rated at 18, in something like a Catalina, LeSabre, or Delta 88. But if you got the California version, it was rated at 19! Odd, that the choked down CA version would get better economy than the 49-state version!

Yet, in 1979, the 231 was rated 18 for 49-state cars, 16 for CA versions. And the Chevy 250 was rated 15, for both regions.

For 1978, the 250 was rated at 17/24, and 19 combined. The CA version was 15/20, 17 combined. So, I'd guess fuel economy did factor in to the 250's demise as well.

uplanderguy

Now that I think about it, the parents of a girl in my HS class traded in their '72 Caprice Sport Sedan on a new '77 Caprice Classic sedan with six, in the popular two-tone blue. A year later, a two-tone green '78 Caprice Classic sedan with V8 suddenly showed up in their driveway, LOL.

That also reminds me of elderly Mr. Parry in our neighborhood, getting a new beige '65 Impala Sport Coupe. Even then I knew it was a six as it had no engine ID on the front fenders at all. A year later, Mr. Parry bought a white '66 Impala Sport Coupe with V8. I can guess why.

He was on a three-or-four-year cycle of Impala two-door hardtops, usually.

Pretty amazing to think you could get a six in a full-size Chevy through '73 (although the choice was down to the Bel Air sedan by that time).

uplanderguy

I always remember for '77, the 305 was rated at 16/21, and the 350 at 15/20. The 350 was much better IMHO, and got you the 350 trans, at least that year I heard from day one.

xwesx

My '69 C20 has a 307 V8, and it always surprises folks who ask about it to learn that. Apparently, the 307 wasn't common in pickups at all, and they always expect it either has a straight 6 or a 350. I tell you what, though, that engine has been stunningly reliable for over 54 years now!

texases

I’d love to see what a ‘77 Caprice with the F41 suspension and an LS-3 would drive like.

fintail

All that has me wondering what the take rate was for V8s in full sized medium trim cars for Chevy vs Ford and Dodge/Plymouth. I seldom see a Galaxie with a 6 - reserved for the Custom series I guess, but an Impala with a 6 seems not insanely uncommon. Maybe holdouts who were attached to the I6 Chevys of old?

kyfdx

My stripper '70 Galaxie still had a 302 V-8

No A/C or power brakes, though

sda

kyfdx said:

My stripper '70 Galaxie still had a 302 V-8

No A/C or power brakes, though

Dad had a 70 Ford Custom (500?) sedan company car. Medium metallic blue and blue vinyl interior. I remember it did have carpet, am radio, ac, ps, pb, auto, 302, blackwall tires and dog dish hub caps. His previous 66 Galaxie company car had a 289 and no ac. In New Orleans having ac was a big plus. The Custom wasn’t as nice as a Galaxie, dad felt the ac made up for the lesser status.

stickguy

In my illustrious car owning career (I forget the number now, somewhere near 60?) I have owned a grand total of 1 V8. And that was a 1970ish Nova I bought in HS and never registered or did more than driving up and down the street a few times. I think it had a bad engine noise? So I really can't count that. Other than that, nothing but 6 cyl (straight and V) and 4 bangers (straight and flat!)

xwesx

I have three sitting in my driveway right now! But, it's been a LOOOOONG time since I drove one with any sense of regularity.

Now that I think about it, I've never sold a vehicle with a V8....

kyfdx

My first two cars had 302 V-8s.

Never owned another one.

roadburner

I had a modded 350 SBC in my Monte Carlo, a 425 in the Riviera, and an extremely anemic 302 in the Bronco.

tjc78

I have had 5 V8’s

2, 5.0 Ford
1, 4.6 Ford
1, 6.6 Ford
1, 5.7 Dodge

fintail

Of cars I legally owned, 2 V8s - both AMG. The rest are 6s, both I6 and V6 (one V6 diesel), other than a 4cyl diesel. Galaxie which I drove as a teen but was owned by parents was a 390.

andre1969

With V8s, lessee, I'm probably going to forget something along the line, but here goes...

341-2bbl: 1957 DeSoto Firedome
318-2bbl: 1968 Dart (According to the VIN it was a 273, but the seller told me he put in a rebuilt 318 around the 241,000 mile mark)
400-4bbl: 1969 Bonneville
400-4bbl: 1967 Catalina (originally a 2-bbl, but it was rebuilt and hopped up a bit earlier in life before I bought it)
318-2bbl: 1979 Newport
305-4bbl: 1986 Monte Carlo
318-4bbl: 1989 Gran Fury ex copcar
307-4bbl: 1985 LeSabre
383-2bbl: 1967 Newport
360-2bbl: 1979 5th Ave
305-4bbl: 1985 C10 Silverado
350-4bbl: 1976 Grand LeMans (technically if you do the math it really comes out to something like 353.4?)
360-2bbl: 1979 New Yorker
345: 2012 Ram
345: 2023 Charger

uplanderguy

My V8's:

1977 Impala coupe, 305 2-barrel
1981 Monte Carlo, 267 2-barrel
1993 Caprice Classic, 305 FI
2024 Corvette, don't even know the displacement without looking, but 490 hp with its standard exhaust

Geez, that's it for daily drivers!

1963 Studebaker Lark Daytona Skytop, 289 R1 4-barrel, 240 hp
1964 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop, 259 2-barrel, 180 hp
1966 Studebaker Daytona Sports Sedan, 283 2-barrel, 195 hp
1966 Studebaker Cruiser sedan, 283 2-barrel, 195 hp

uplanderguy

I hung out at our hometown Chevy dealer from about 1970-76, and I can't say I recall a single '70 or later Impala with six there as a new car. Through '72, you could get only the Impala 4-door sedan or Sport Coupe with six, but again, I've never seen one.

I'm going to see if I can find one online.

xwesx

Wow, Andre. Just... wow.

Michaell

I've had two over the years.

In college, I totaled my '79 Sunbird with only a few months of school left, and I bought a 70's Buick Apollo (Nova clone) with a 350.

Later, we leased a '99 Ford Expedition with the 4.6L Triton engine. 230 HP had no chance against the 5000+ pound curb weight.

uplanderguy

Not a 'spotting', but I have to admit to feeling coddled a little bit today.

I got a long, very detailed questionnaire about how I liked my Corvette, a few weeks ago. I did mention I thought that there was a slight whine at highway speeds in 7th gear, and that the tire noise was high. I'm a fussbutt, so thought I'd be honest, although most other owners on a C8 forum said they have a similar whine and it's a function of the dual clutch transmission. And I wrote that I knew performance tires like that weren't going to be quiet (there was actually space for written responses).

Chevrolet called me today to talk about the survey and my 'concerns'. We had a pleasant conversation and I enjoyed that English wasn't this person's second language.

I have always bought rather pedestrian Chevrolets but I guess a Corvette bumps you up in the Chevy hierarchy a bit. I usually scoff at stuff like that, but I enjoyed it.

She emailed me a dealer service coupon for $50 for doing the survey.

roadburner

uplanderguy said:

Not a 'spotting', but I have to admit to feeling coddled a little bit today.

I got a long, very detailed questionnaire about how I liked my Corvette, a few weeks ago. I did mention I thought that there was a slight whine at highway speeds in 7th gear, and that the tire noise was high. I'm a fussbutt, so thought I'd be honest, although most other owners on a C8 forum said they have a similar whine and it's a function of the dual clutch transmission. And I wrote that I knew performance tires like that weren't going to be quiet (there was actually space for written responses).

Chevrolet called me today to talk about the survey and my 'concerns'. We had a pleasant conversation and I enjoyed that English wasn't this person's second language.

I have always bought rather pedestrian Chevrolets but I guess a Corvette bumps you up in the Chevy hierarchy a bit. I usually scoff at stuff like that, but I enjoyed it.

She emailed me a dealer service coupon for $50 for doing the survey.

I appreciate that kind of treatment. Mercedes in particular has gone the extra mile to keep me in the fold- although BMW and Jeep have also treated me very well- on both the corporate and dealer level.

stickguy

In my wife’s home town today (a past its prime former industrial hub that still has some leftover turn of the century robber barron mansions, a few of which are still nice) a little fleet outside of a nice one.

A 1970ish caddy coupe deville, a
Late 60s Mercedes (not quite sure if a fintail or the Style that overlapped and replaced it) and something else from that period that I liked but can’t now remember what it was!

uplanderguy

I loved my dealer delivery experience. I've mentioned it I'm sure, but it is a small dealer, same family owned since 1928, current owner is third generation, he somehow survived the 2009 stuff, he sold the C8 at MSRP and only charged a $73.70 title and transfer fee, unlike the $250 "doc fee" typically charged by dealers near me--which was actually $499 at the first dealer I had a deposit with. Other dealers near me were also adding anywhere from $5K to $10K over MSRP.

No finance guy to talk to, no going into an office with a guy with a spotlight and rubber hose to try and upsell you on all kinds of stuff. I bought the car, went with his local bank's financing offer, got about an hour demonstration from the owner's son (the only other salesman they have), and left.

They are 30 miles from me, but I hope I still feel the same way after I have some service there at some point. I don't have to take it there, as there are two Chevy dealers within ten miles of me, but I'd like to give him the business if I can.

I have almost always had a positive dealer experience, at least in the Service Department. My daughter's '15 Equinox, at 96K miles and which was bought two years old and not 'certified', needed (per a dealer) a timing chain. I politely contacted Chevrolet Customer Service and they paid half of it. In late 2022, I was pleased with that--particularly, since I bought the car used back then. The dealer in fact, was surprised.

uplanderguy

Saw the same gold ‘77 Caprice Classic sedan with 250 six today in the pouring rain, this time going in the opposite direction.

laurasdada

At Burger King (hey, I had a coupon!) an Honda S2000. License plate: 2000 S.
Pride.

imidazol97

I'm in Ohio, and I believe I've seen one with "S2000." Neat.

Folks come up with neat license plates, besides getting the obvious.

laurasdada

The Burger King is a couple blocks down the road from Porsche/Audi/McLaren dealerships. Wonder who eats there (besides me!), employees or clients?

kyfdx

Spotted an Acura RLX, yesterday. Might be the only one.

fintail

I saw an RLX on the road in Spokane a couple weeks ago. One of the double digit sales volume years no doubt. An answer to a question unasked: 4:3 scale Accord at 3:2 the price.

Went out today and saw a Fiero on the road, and the same 60 Pontiac 6 window sedan I snapped a pic of a while back.

texases

Here’s a question on ‘57 Mopars - did they have true quad headlights? I thought they had two regular headlights on the outside and two slightly smaller driving lights on the inside.

ab348

My understanding is that quad headlights were only just becoming legal state by state in 1957. The Imperial could be found with either dual headlights or quads depending on laws in the state of original sale. I believe the same was true for Chrysler and DeSoto in '57. It seems to me that Dodge and Plymouth did what you described, a set of dual headlights with a turn signal/parking light next to it that was large enough to make the cars appear to have quads if you didn't look too closely.

jwm40517

I have seen an S2000 plate in Lexington KY. Different car , but a client has owned one for many years.

mrwhipple311

I used to run "ZED III" on my BMW Z3. Not real original but what the heck

explorerx4

Back from HulaLand.
In Kona saw a white Holden Maloo and a white OG Avanti with a healthy exhaust note.
On the way to the airport to leave Maui, 2 pristine 80's 450 SL's.

roadburner

"M Sport" on my ti , "Gojira" on my MS3 and "BMWCCA" on the Wrangler (because I don't want to surrender the plate).

explorerx4

Bob Mayer review of a 2010 Fusion Hybrid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAU6mOJJxxM

andre1969

texases said:

Here’s a question on ‘57 Mopars - did they have true quad headlights? I thought they had two regular headlights on the outside and two slightly smaller driving lights on the inside.

My understanding is that quad headlights were federalized on or about 1/1/1957. At least, my rationale behind that thought process was that DeSoto delayed introduction of the 1957 Adventurer until after that date, so that they could all be built with quad headlights, regardless of which state they were sold in. As far as I know, there never was a 2-headlight '57 Adventurer. However, the similar 300C, which was introduced more "on time" did have a few 2-headlight models. So, even though some states banned quads and some didn't, for the '57 model year, the reality was that it was only like 3 or 4 months of the '57 model year, that they were actually banned in those states, and as a result, are pretty rare today.

Now Dodges and Plymouths only had single headlights. The inner "light" was actually the turn signal, just made extra large so that it gave the car a quad headlight look at a quick glance. Also, the DeSoto Firesweep, which used a Dodge front clip, with a DeSoto grille, only had quads. However, the DeSoto grille had the turn signals incorporated into it, so there was no need for the fake "quad" look that Dodge and Plymouth used. As a result, they just had one headlight, centered in a bezel that was large enough for two, and that gave it a bit of an odd bug/owl-eyed look.

Considering the much larger volume that Dodge/Plymouth sold, I'm kind of surprised that they didn't offer them both ways as well. But then, that first year at least, perhaps keeping the true quad headlights only with the more upscale cars, gave that feature a bit of a luxury aura?

texases

@explorerx4 said:
Bob Mayer review of a 2010 Fusion Hybrid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAU6mOJJxxM

I have a 2011 MKZ hybrid, same basic car, and that review is pretty accurate. I’ve gotten 37 mpg over its life, and never found the power inadequate. Not a thrilling car for curvy backroads, but those are pretty non-existent in DFW. It’s been just what I’ve needed for commutes and occasional road trips. Not Toyota-level reliability, but not bad. Biggest gripe? The THX premium sound system is way over boosted on the bass at ‘flat’ settings, have to turn the bass way down and treble up to get decent sound.

fintail

explorerx4 said:

Bob Mayer review of a 2010 Fusion Hybrid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAU6mOJJxxM

Bob Mayer is the ultimate malaise era reviewer:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bob+mayer+car+reviews

stickguy

Out driving after rain this morning, and earlier generation jag XJS coupe. Shocked to see it not only running but out this time of year.

andre1969

Wow, that guy had a really long career testing cars. Is he still around? I always liked that generation of Fusion, especially the facelifted style with the bolder, chromey grille. I remember when news of the 2013 redesign started making the rounds, it made this generation sort of slip my mind. But, I think these have aged rather well.

fintail

andre1969 said:

Wow, that guy had a really long career testing cars. Is he still around? I always liked that generation of Fusion, especially the facelifted style with the bolder, chromey grille. I remember when news of the 2013 redesign started making the rounds, it made this generation sort of slip my mind. But, I think these have aged rather well.

From all I can find he is still around, and looks like he was active online not long ago. He has a test of your NYer, with typical issues of the era (no surprise virtually everything he tested had some kind of build issue). Would have been interesting to see the last of the dinosaurs alongside the new downsized trend.

I know I read it somewhere, but I call those Fusions the "razor" or "Gillette Fusion" due to the bladed grille. The faux Aston Martin style that replaced it sometimes seems to be on its way to becoming an American Altima (driven insanely and neglectfully).

uplanderguy

Just following up on my earlier post about looking online to see big early '70's Impalas with sixes, and I couldn't find a one. Pretty sure I remember seeing a '71 Sport Coupe with six some time back online, and also a black '73 Bel Air six with stick, but can't find either now.

Did find a couple BIscaynes. Here's a '71. Gets authenticity points for the one-year-only silver-painted wheels. Boy, is that interior dismal. You can see the straight-stick shifter in the interior pic.