I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

uplanderguy

One thing I seem to remember about '80's and '90's Pontiacs was red instrumentation lighting. I like that. All '64 Studebaker cars had that and for whatever reason, I like it.

andre1969

I think the Caliber's problem was that people didn't know what to make of it. Nominally, it was supposed to replace the Neon, but it seemed like it had just a touch of crossover/wanna-be SUV in its DNA. I seem to recall that they weren't very fuel-efficient, and also weren't so hot when it came to performance, either.

When it was first introduced, it sold somewhat well, but in 2006-2007, people were flocking towards bigger vehicles. It managed to do tolerably for 2008, but I imagine most of those sales were in the earlier part of the year, and then the Great Recession pretty much wiped out most demand after that.

Incidentally, during the Great Recession, the dealer I bought my Intrepid from (and various family members bought vehicles there over the years as well, including Mom and her '86 Monte Carlo), dropped their Mopar franchise completely. They sent an email out to all of their customers, which I saved for posterity. It mentioned that they didn't have hopes for Chrysler, long term, because it kept changing ownership, and were also concerned about their inability to bring a fuel-efficient small car to the market.

That dealership sold Chevy/Dodge/Isuzu, back when I bought my Intrepid. Eventually Isuzu went away, and oddly, they dropped Chevy, and went full-blown Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep. By the time the recession hit, I imagine they were regretting dumping Chevy! Anyway, that building sat vacant for years. I think it got turned into some kind of mega-church in more recent times.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

One thing I seem to remember about '80's and '90's Pontiacs was red instrumentation lighting. I like that. All '64 Studebaker cars had that and for whatever reason, I like it.

Nissan tends to have a lot of red/orange in its instrumentation as well. At least, my housemate's 2006 Xterra did. I didn't care for it, because I tend to associate red with either a warning light, or if it's old enough, I have the high beams on. I imagine if I drove something like that more regularly though, I'd get used to it.

ab348

Speaking of fast idle overriding the brakes, this was that taken to extremes: my Dad's '78 Grand LeMans Safari with the 305 occasionally (happened to me at least twice while I was driving it, which I didn't do all that much, so I guess he probably experienced it too) would upon initial cold start rev to a very high level immediately, maybe 3K or so, and you could do nothing to slow it down except shut it off. If you happened to put it in gear right away without thinking I have to think you'd take off like a rocket. Never did find out what was happening there.

uplanderguy

My '81 was the 267 V8. I don't know what the district manager's Cutlass Supreme had in it.

kyfdx

uplanderguy said:

You know, a Mopar that I thought would be a hit but I was wrong...the Caliber. I remember thinking it was cheap to buy, roomy/practical, OK looking, and could be had with a 5-speed. Seems like not many others agreed and I was dead-wrong on it becoming a hit.

We got one for a rental in Santa Monica in 2006. Possibly one of the worst cars I've ever experienced.

tjc78

I think the worst car I’ve driven in recent memory was a base model Kona. I really didn’t like it at all.

tjc78

@fintail said:
From a fb group spotted at Mecum - are ordinary 80s-90s cars coming into their own as collectibles? (this was a 17K mile car):

If anyone wants to see the madness live lol

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8Pwkbh6/

roadburner

uplanderguy said:

One thing I seem to remember about '80's and '90's Pontiacs was red instrumentation lighting. I like that. All '64 Studebaker cars had that and for whatever reason, I like it.

Red light doesn't affect your night vision. BMWs had red instrument lighting for decades until their mission statement became "Pander to the clueless."
I set the ambient lighting in the C43 to red and I really like it.

fintail

I assume a Grand Am like that could have been had for well under 15K when new. Poor ROI even if above MSRP, and still a nutty price. I could get a number of other nice malaise cars for the money - I would much rather have a bustleback, disco Bird, maybe a Versailles, etc.

Grand Am brings back a fun memory. An old friend of mine got one for his first car. I think it was an 87, and this was maybe in 1993. As young drivers do, he had some early goofs, and lightly rear-ended a boat on a trailer, which left an impression from the propellor on the bumper/grille. He got mocked a little for that one.

Thinking of rental cars, I remember a friend had a Malibu (pre-Classic) in the early 00s, and it had all kinds of electrical issues, including a temp gauge (or gage? ) that was pegged whenever the engine was running - engine was fine. I've never had anything with obvious defects, worst I recall was a Kia Spectra back around 2006 that had 20K miles on it but seemed like 200K - interior was a mess with worn carpet, hubcaps were warped, etc. I recall soon after having a Focus ZX5 that felt like a breath of fresh air in comparison. Most exciting was probably the Jag roadster I had from Sixt in Germany, although some might have liked the Hertz Challenger Scat Pack I had in Chicago. A couple of Sixt 7-series and a few other Sixt MBs and BMWs were nothing to sneeze at.

stickguy

I know that red is better for not impacting night vision, but for some reason I have it in my head that some people have more trouble reading it?

stickguy

Rentals back in the day were also a shock to me since I only had imports at the time. A couple were scary. The ones I remember were Tempos. one was so spooky I turned around after a mile or 2 and took it back and made them swap it out. I am sure they just rented it to the next dude that came up to the counter. Another one was bad too but I think I lived with it.

the best was actually a Chrysler. At Disney, so probably about 1998. It was a cloud car, maybe a Cirrus or the Plymouth version. But it was loaded model (perforated seats, moonroof I think, the fancy wheels, power everything). And it was brand new, with maybe 20 miles on it. I had never driven one before and really liked how it drove, to the extent that if I had been in the market I would have gone to look at one.

kyfdx

I had a Dodge Dynasty (Mitsu engine?) for a rental in 1988, in Miami. I sort of liked it.

uplanderguy

Not rentals, but a couple observations about a couple older compacts (MIL's '04 Civic, and friend's '99 Prizm).

My '15 Cruze LS 1.8 is pretty slow, but in the details, I have more of a pride-of-ownership thing.

I know it's newer than those other two cars I mention, but what I can't stand about those two are the dollhouse-small outside mirrors, and dinky instrument panel knobs. Plus, the radios which seem like aftermarket--and they may be.

I do like that even this low-buck Cruze has factory XM radio, and OnStar built in.

andre1969

stickguy said:

the best was actually a Chrysler. At Disney, so probably about 1998. It was a cloud car, maybe a Cirrus or the Plymouth version. But it was loaded model (perforated seats, moonroof I think, the fancy wheels, power everything). And it was brand new, with maybe 20 miles on it. I had never driven one before and really liked how it drove, to the extent that if I had been in the market I would have gone to look at one.

On the day I bought my 2000 Intrepid, they also had a well-equipped Stratus on the lot. It had the 2.5 V6 (Mitsubishi unit), leather, and a sunroof. I think power seats too, at least a driver's side. I want to say its MSRP was around the same as my base Intrepid, around $20-21K, with shipping. I didn't drive it, but sat in it, and liked it. However, back then interest rates were running around 7-8% I think. They were offering 0.9% on the Intrepid. And I liked it for being a bigger car, more modern, and having more hp. So, I went with the Intrepid.

I seem to recall that long term reliability wasn't so hot on them, though, although to be fair, on the LH cars, the base 2.7 V6 tended to be an achilles heel. I never had engine issues with mine, but apparently they were prone to sludging and other issues, and the engine was expensive as hell to repair/replace when it failed. I can't recall if the 2.5 V6 was all that bad, or not. I know Mitsubishi engines were often known for burning oil, but can't remember if they were known for other problems.

I wanted to like the Cloud cars when they redesigned for 2001, but they just seemed like they fell victims to cost cutting here and there. And I believe the 2.7 was even more troubleprone in them than it was the LH cars, possibly because of being transverse, packed in more tightly, and maybe engine cooling wasn't as good?

fintail

stickguy said:

Rentals back in the day were also a shock to me since I only had imports at the time. A couple were scary. The ones I remember were Tempos. one was so spooky I turned around after a mile or 2 and took it back and made them swap it out. I am sure they just rented it to the next dude that came up to the counter. Another one was bad too but I think I lived with it.

the best was actually a Chrysler. At Disney, so probably about 1998. It was a cloud car, maybe a Cirrus or the Plymouth version. But it was loaded model (perforated seats, moonroof I think, the fancy wheels, power everything). And it was brand new, with maybe 20 miles on it. I had never driven one before and really liked how it drove, to the extent that if I had been in the market I would have gone to look at one.

I am sure it was a Cirrus. IIRC the Plymouth Breeze was a low spec fleet model, I remember it having stickers/decals instead of model name badges.

2.7 was an engine famous for sludge, I think.

ab348

kyfdx said:

I had a Dodge Dynasty (Mitsu engine?) for a rental in 1988, in Miami. I sort of liked it.

In 1990 I was in Florida for a couple of weeks to visit my Dad who was wintering there outside of Tampa. Upon arrival I got a rental Taurus and quite liked it. That is, until I ran over a road snake tire tread on I-4 in traffic too heavy to avoid it, which punctured the return fuel line under the car. The rental car company eventually rescued me from the exit ramp I was marooned on and delivered a Dynasty to replace it. They were like night and day. The Taurus seemed pretty nimble and responsive while the Dynasty, while far plusher inside, felt tight on room, handled like a pig, and was very soft and floaty. Didn’t like it much.

roadburner

I haven't rented a lot of cars, but a couple stand out. In 1986 we flew in to Charleston SC for our honeymoon. I had reserved a sports car with Hertz, but when I arrived I was told the Charleston never kept them Grrr. Instead I took a bright red Thunderbird, which I reall liked except for the bench seat and column shift. Six months later I renterd an MR2 for a short trip clebrating my first election win. The only others I remember were snoozemobiles- a Camry, a Caliber, and a Stanza.

tjc78

I did all my heavy renting from 2001 to 2006 or so. GM sedans were National’s favorite and during that time I think I drove just about all of them. Malibu, Alero, Intrigue, Century, Impala, Grand Prix…

I always preferred the Intrigue and Alero over the others even though they were essentially the same.

sda

andre1969 said:

I think the Caliber's problem was that people didn't know what to make of it. Nominally, it was supposed to replace the Neon, but it seemed like it had just a touch of crossover/wanna-be SUV in its DNA. I seem to recall that they weren't very fuel-efficient, and also weren't so hot when it came to performance, either.

When it was first introduced, it sold somewhat well, but in 2006-2007, people were flocking towards bigger vehicles. It managed to do tolerably for 2008, but I imagine most of those sales were in the earlier part of the year, and then the Great Recession pretty much wiped out most demand after that.

Incidentally, during the Great Recession, the dealer I bought my Intrepid from (and various family members bought vehicles there over the years as well, including Mom and her '86 Monte Carlo), dropped their Mopar franchise completely. They sent an email out to all of their customers, which I saved for posterity. It mentioned that they didn't have hopes for Chrysler, long term, because it kept changing ownership, and were also concerned about their inability to bring a fuel-efficient small car to the market.

That dealership sold Chevy/Dodge/Isuzu, back when I bought my Intrepid. Eventually Isuzu went away, and oddly, they dropped Chevy, and went full-blown Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep. By the time the recession hit, I imagine they were regretting dumping Chevy! Anyway, that building sat vacant for years. I think it got turned into some kind of mega-church in more recent times.

The Caliber had some innovative and neat features such as optional speakers in the rear hatch that could be folded out to provide music when tailgating or picnicking. IIRC the CVT used in a lot of them didn’t provide a pleasant experience and were failure prone. The liberal use of cheap looking hard plastic in the interior wasn’t a good look though I don’t think it was any worse than what GM used in the Cobalt or HHR.

sda

Out and about yesterday, a very nice, white, 03-07 Mazda 6 wagon V6. Also a tired 01ish gray DeVille with night vision. I think the night vision option was $2k.

Michaell

tjc78 said:

I did all my heavy renting from 2001 to 2006 or so. GM sedans were National’s favorite and during that time I think I drove just about all of them. Malibu, Alero, Intrigue, Century, Impala, Grand Prix…

I always preferred the Intrigue and Alero over the others even though they were essentially the same.

I traveled from roughly 1989 through 2003, all of it domestic. Agreed, a lot of GM sedans. I do remember a Dodge Dynasty in Canada, once, and a Taurus SHO on a quick one day trip to the Twin Cities (well, Menominee, WI, but I flew into MSP).

I, too, enjoyed the Intruige as a rental - just seemed a cut above the rest of GM's offerings.

uplanderguy

I had two Cobalts, and I don't remember the door panels which make me think they were the run-of-the-mill cheapy plastic, but one small thing I remembered liking, and a friend even commented on it, was the chrome rings around the instruments--nice small touch on a cheap car.

I bought one new--a four-door base model with 5-speed and ABS (which was optional). I bought my daughter a used '09 in 2013 from eBay from a very cranky and disorganized seller, which is a whole 'nother story.

My '08 stick was unbelievably smooth idling. Coworkers with a Ford and a Matrix used to think it had stalled at intersections. It also had zero tire noise. It was the 'XFE' model which I think had low-rolling-resistance tires. My daughter's was totalled in an accident with a hit-and-run driver, but she still says she liked that car.

The ignition switch thing was handled very stupidly. I had mine replaced when it was just a TSB as I felt it just beginning to feel sticky getting the key out. Daughter's car's previous owner had done same. I might not be right on this, but I seem to remember that the improved part was not given a new part number and old units were not depleted so when the recall occurred, they were not sure if ones replaced under the TSB were the new or old part. Bet that never happens again.

After both cars were gone, I got a postcard about a class action suit due to the switch. They needed VIN's and I still had both. Filled the cards out in five minutes. A year or two passed and I received two checks, each for $97, for my cut, LOL. Hey, I was glad to get it.

andre1969

With the Cobalt, it looks like there were two versions. There was the strippo version that looked like this...
And a nicer version that looked like this...
On the strippo version, I'm guessing just about the whole thing was hard plastic, with the exception of the insert around the armrest, that might have been either vinyl or fabric. I don't think the top part, below the window was padded on the base, but on the nicer one, it looks like it was. I just did a quickie search though, and they were vague on model years, so it's also possible they changed just a bit from year to year?

Interestingly, it looks like if you got power windows, you also got the luxury of a more full-length armrest. Another nice feature, it looks like the armrests were recessed just a bit, to give you a little more elbow/hip room. Not in the league of those GM A/G body sedans and wagons with the infamous stationary rear door windows, but they don't appear to just jut out, like many of them did. So that probably made the car feel a bit roomier.

I think a lot of cars do that nowadays. My uncle's Colorado has the armrests recessed slightly, as does my Charger.

andre1969

"After both cars were gone, I got a postcard about a class action suit due to the switch. They needed VIN's and I still had both. Filled the cards out in five minutes. A year or two passed and I received two checks, each for $97, for my cut, LOL. Hey, I was glad to get it."

You did better than me! I remember years ago, GM gave out vouchers for owners of saddle tank pickups, giving them $1000 off of a new GM vehicle, if they traded it in. It dropped to $500 if you waited too long, and then was void after so long.

I think my '85 Silverado was registered in my name by that time, but I seem to recall the voucher came to my Grandmom. So I wonder if they were going by a list of original owners, or something? It was Granddad's truck, but I imagine both of their names were on the title originally.

I wasn't worried about the saddle tanks, mostly because I don't play with model rocket igniters, and I always heard you had to t-bone the truck at something like 70 mph to have a good chance of it blowing up, anyway. I also figured there was no sense in trading in a perfectly useable truck, just to get $1000 back on something that I'd be paying a lot of money for, and really had no use for at the time.

uplanderguy

That gray panel is what was in my '08 Cobalt LS (strippo). I do remember cloth on the door, which I kinda like.

What I had was the result of a class action lawsuit, and it sounds like your case might've been something either GM offered to do or was forced to do?

I remember the network using model rocket igniters, unbeknownst to viewers, to make for a more dramatic presentation. Ugh.

sda

uplanderguy said:

That gray panel is what was in my '08 Cobalt LS (strippo). I do remember cloth on the door, which I kinda like.

What I had was the result of a class action lawsuit, and it sounds like your case might've been something either GM offered to do or was forced to do?

I remember the network using model rocket igniters, unbeknownst to viewers, to make for a more dramatic presentation. Ugh.

60 Minutes again?? Hope not.

uplanderguy

For some reason, I'm thinking it was NBC News.

andre1969

Wasn't it Dateline NBC or something like that? Did 60 Minutes do something controversial? I always thought they were one of the more reputable (or is that less disreputable) news shows?

I do seem to recall GM being held innocent of any wrong-doing when it came to those saddle tanks, and I think the $1000/$500 vouchers were just a matter of good will.

As much as those saddle-tank trucks were raked over the coals, when they first came out, they were considered a step forward in safety. The '72 models had the tank built into the cab!

I'm wondering though, was the ladder frame that GM used for their pickups back then narrower than the frames Ford and Dodge used? I'm at least presuming Ford/Dodge put the tank inside the frame rails, since nobody every complained about their location. I'm wondering if GM put them outside, because their wasn't enough room between the frame rails and driveshaft? Or, if the actually were similar, but Ford and Dodge just used narrower tanks?

explorerx4

Having a shorter filler neck on the saddle type tank probably saved money.

uplanderguy

Another wrong piece of prognostication on my part: I thought the HHR Panel would be a hit to the same types who had vans in the '70's and painted murals on the side.

Although, I do think they did a lousy job of promoting the HHR panel. I first saw one on a delivery carrier and I had not heard anything about it nor seen an ad for it, before that.

andre1969

Another wrong piece of prognostication on my part: I thought the HHR Panel would be a hit to the same types who had vans in the '70's and painted murals on the side.

My guess is, that demographic made too many babies as a result of those vans, and by the time the HHR came out, that group was more focused on something that they could get their grandkids' car seats and strollers in and out of with a bit more ease

I looked up some sales stats for the HHR, vs the PT Cruiser. While the PT Cruiser got an earlier start, and had some better sales years, it fell off fast after 2006, and continued to plummet through the Great Recession. Here's a chart I found on that one...

Meanwhile, here's a screen grab of how the HHR did, from Wikipedia's page on it... The HHR numbers are calendar year. However, I'm guessing the PT Cruiser graph is calendar year as well, considering they show a figure for 2000, yet it was launched as a 2001 I believe.

Looks like 2006 was a good year for both the PT and the HHR, but while the PT sales plummeted the next year, the HHR saw a slight increase. It also stayed surprisingly resilient during the Great Depression. Even though the stock market didn't go into freefall until Sept/Oct/Nov of 2008 (at least, that's when I lost the bulk of my investments), I think we all knew something was coming. And while 2009-2010 were years of economic improvement, I imagine some buyers were still leery of making a major automotive purchase during uncertain times. In retrospect, 2009-2010 were good years for the stock market, but I remember that whole time, a lot of people were expecting the recession to double-dip. And basically, we didn't realize we were out of it, until we'd been out of it, for awhile!

I guess what ultimately killed the HHR was the fact the Cobalt/G5 platform went away, and it just wasn't cost effective to keep the HHR around?

Looking back on them now, I see the PT Cruiser, HHR, and even the Focus wagon as sort of stepping stones, bridging the gap between more traditional, low-slung compact wagons, and compact crossovers. It might seem weird to throw the Focus in that mix, but I do remember when they were more common, they were tall enough that it made them a bit difficult to see around.

fintail

I always thought the HHR looked better than the PT (which to me has a weird stance, at some angles making me think of a cat with its butt up in the air). Weird ergonomics though - a young relative had one when it wasn't very old, and the A-pillar was a big issue for her, causing parking issues. My uncle who I think is 76 still has a HHR, a higher optioned model with leather etc, I think he's bonded with the car, as he could get something else, but doesn't.

I remember my mom had a later PT rental car, and hated it. Those were a really big deal when launched, people might forget about the huge ADMs that dealers were apparently getting without problem. I recall local dealers were buying Canadian market vehicles and converting them, due to the possibility of huge profit margins. A friend of mine thought they were very cool, and I clearly recall going with him to a dealer in the spring of 2000 to look at one, and they let us take it for a short drive - it turned heads for that brief point in time anyway.

uplanderguy

Our PT, bought on eBay for older daughter, was a 2008. I feel we squeezed every dollar out of it. I paid $6,930 for it when it was two years old and had about 45K miles. We had it 'til maybe three years ago when it needed a repair the local garage said they couldn't do....although they weren't sure what it was. I paid $132 for that diagnosis and sold it to a buddy of mine for that. It would start first thing in the morning, then wouldn't later in the day. It had 138K miles. It was our "I dont care" car which came back to us after daughter got her Equinox.

My buddy said, "Get it started and drive here and don't stop". He lived in Geneva, OH, about an hour or a little more away. I did. It ran fine. Once I got there, it wouldn't restart. He cleaned it up, tinkered with it, I think it was a module of some sort, hit certain parts with a hammer (LOL), and sold it for $1,050 on eBay. He felt guilty about that but I told him, good for you, you did the work.

Other than the thick pillars, I was sort-of intrigued by the HHR; it definitely had more cargo space behind the second row than a PT. It always bothered me that it wasn't built down the road at Lordstown, when it seemed to me it could have been. That kept me from buying one. Like the PT, it was built in Mexico, which I would just rather not, although in my mind the PT was used when I bought it so the damage was done, LOL!

texases

The only PT I've driven had the opposite problem. Rental, in Yosemite park, wouldn't start one morning (couldn't get key to turn). Rental car company flat bedded a replacement (Monte Carlo, not what I'd have picked for our family vacation). Of course, the PT started right up for the driver.

stickguy

a real oddball. Out driving in town, on roads that still have some residual salt film, was a 1920ish vintage Ford Model A. A 2 door I think but the full square body style (no trunk or rumble seat). very weird to see out driving around in the winter.

roadburner

There are two early '90s Mercury Capris in a used car lot I pass on my way to work. One is really banged up, perhaps bought as a parts car for the nicer one. I can't imagine who would want one- thay weren't all that well regarded when new...

explorerx4

Order your new custom built Packard.
https://www.cleveland.com/community/2023/12/packard-motors-gets-ready-to-build-its-newold-cars-to-order.html

andre1969

I knew someone who had one of those Mercury Capris, but he didn't have it long. I met this guy through the Maryland DeSoto club. He only lived maybe 10 minutes away, and had a black 1950 DeSoto Custom 4-door sedan.

Well, soon after I bought my '67 Catalina, I think it gave him the convertible bug. His first one was one of those K-car LeBaron convertibles, with the Mitsubishi 2.6. I can't remember why, but he got rid of that, and then got the Capri. I remember it was a blue, but don't remember much else. And again, he didn't keep it long. I have a feeling neither of those two convertibles really suited him, and he just got bored with them fast. Eventually, he found a good compromise. A 1972 Corvette. It wasn't a convertible, but did have a removeable roof panel.

However, for some reason, I'm remembering it as having one panel that removed, a targa-style roof. But I've looked up pics, and can only find a T-top style. DID they offer a targa roof, or am I just imagining things?

As for daily drivers, he had one of those squared off Izuzu Troopers, and his wife had a Somerset Regal. Both of them stick shift.

As for the Model A, my Granddad had one of those, back in the day, and it was the 2-door sedan (no rumble seat) I think Ford even called it the Tudor Sedan. I remember hearing a story about how he overturned it, but was somehow able to get it righted with some lumber and a cut section of tree trunk. I'm a bit dubious, though; could a single person really get that much leverage, with a couple boards and a stump, to be able to flip a car back right side up?

texases

I think they could if it was on its side.

fintail

I remember the Capri was usually compared with the Miata, where it didn't fare well. Plenty of them on early 90s episodes of TPiR. Aussie-built, which was a novelty.

I bet a Model A could be put upright by a person in the right position. They can't be too heavy - they are smaller than they look, especially inside. Two door = Tudor, four door = Fordor, I think Ford used that nomenclature for some time, going back to the later Model T.

Those new Packards could be something with an EV option.

texases

I’ll believe that Packard story once they’ve actually produced some. Crazy difficult to make cars.

kyfdx

Buick convertible, this morning. Cascada?

tjc78

@kyfdx said:
Buick convertible, this morning. Cascada?

I low key kinda like those. Would be perfect to drive around at the shore.

andres3

uplanderguy said:

You know, a Mopar that I thought would be a hit but I was wrong...the Caliber. I remember thinking it was cheap to buy, roomy/practical, OK looking, and could be had with a 5-speed. Seems like not many others agreed and I was dead-wrong on it becoming a hit.

I wish you were a betting man because I'd have given you that bet and I won't disclose at what odds because I'd like to maximize my payouts.

andres3

tjc78 said:

I think the worst car I’ve driven in recent memory was a base model Kona. I really didn’t like it at all.

Worst recent car I've been in was the Nissan Versa; no contest.

Before, that, and probably 10 years ago now, a rental HHR; the interior was hideous.

andre1969

I'd probably hate it if I had to drive it for any amount of time, but the last time I was in a Versa, I was impressed at how roomy it was, for a small car.

I know the Versa is cheaper, but I always thought it seemed too close in size to the Sentra, so it seemed like they overlapped a bit, with the market they were shooting for. But, I guess the Versa was more just cheap, basic, entry-level transportation, whereas the Sentra would tend to have sportier aspirations.

stickguy

The latest Sentra actually got a bit bigger and nicer creating more separation.

explorerx4

Is that Mclean Stevenson in the first commercial?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkFKNRAIBYo

ab348

The animation of the parts flying around in the '66 Chevy commercial is impressive.

Less impressive is the misspelling of the word "SUBSCRIBE" at the end.