I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

fintail

I think the very latest (1926-27) Model Ts could be optioned with wire wheels, but otherwise, all wood spokes - Model As all had metal wheels.

fintail

A 220SE fintail can also be a genuine rally car, but I wouldn't call it a sports car :shades:

A 300SL is one for sure.

Mr_Shiftright

Well I guess a rally car is defined more by the race than the car--I mean, Sterling Morse rallied in a Jaguar Mark VII, and a Fintail is a ballerina compared to that boat.

fintail

And in that case, the driver helps too.

bhill2

Well I guess a rally car is defined more by the race than the car--I mean, Sterling Morse rallied in a Jaguar Mark VII, and a Fintail is a ballerina compared to that boat.

Sterling Morse????

lemmer

Yes, inventor of Morse code.

He was really slow in comparison to Sterling Moss, the race car driver.

jljac

I saw a TV News story about this woman a few years ago. She bought the car new in February 1964. Florida Woman, 93, Reaches End Of The Road After 576,000 Miles In Her 1964 Mercury
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/02/florida-woman-3-reaches-end-road-after-5760- - 00-miles-in-same-car/?intcmp=trending#ixzz1qv2GITm2

Mr_Shiftright

MOSS MOSS MOSS

(how embarrassing)

I was JUST reading an article in Discover about typos and slips of the tongue---apparently they don't always "mean" something...it's more about the rather furious and chaotic way our brains "ask" for certain words, and doing so in such rapid fashion, we will often pick words that are similar.

So biologically, I am allowed about a 5% error rate and still be a normal human being. :P

andys120

He was really slow in comparison to Sterling Moss, the race car driver.

Any relation to Sir Stirling Moss, the greatest F1 driver who never won the championship? Stirling Moss

Mr_Shiftright

boy we really screwed that up didn't we?

Some of you have an excuse, not being born while the earth was cooling, but I don't.

Okay, let me try all this again:

"Silverstone was Britain's premier race circuit and this is where the jaguar Mark VII Saloon made its debut in 1952 as a Works entry in the Daily Express International Trophy meet, touring class. Stirling Moss drove serial # LWK 343 to victory in its first race"

fintail

Neat story, I don't know about the $12K claim other than sentimental value, but she seems like a very sensible lady.

Saw a red Chevette this morning.

Mr_Shiftright

80s Honda Accord---looked near mint. Now there must be a story!

Cut-down old 70s Blazer (roof sawed off) into a 2-door convertible/rod/whatever. A favorite way to customize these.

texases

...I can tell you where to find this 'gem' (saw it yesterday):

fintail

Several oldsters in this area have held on to nice early Accords and Camrys. Special interest cars in another 50 years or so :shades:

Some of those Blazers had a removable roof option, IIRC.

andre1969

Cut-down old 70s Blazer (roof sawed off) into a 2-door convertible/rod/whatever. A favorite way to customize these.

Charleton Heston had one...found it quite handy for getting around downtown after the big quake in '74....

fintail

Good $100 parts car anyway

fintail

I remember that, cool rig!

Here's a factory convertible 1974 model:



When I was a little kid, the people who lived across the street had one of these, I thought it was cool because the roof came off. They also had a Vega wagon and a RX-7 - I loved the latter and still remember riding in it.

omarman

A friend of mine offered to sell me his '78 Blazer, the kind with the half cab removable top. Looked like the '79 Blazer pic below. It seemed to fit well, didn't leak or anything, just a bit of clatter now and then but the truck was about 10 years old by that time. He said that he never removed the top because it would probably never fit the same again after the seal was disturbed. Nice truck for the money but my work commute was too long for the 10 mpg he was getting out of it.

lemko

Step on the gas, Andre! I hear banjos!

ab348

How did she manage to spend nearly $3300 on a Comet in 1964? That seems like way too much money.

I remember watching the video of her driving it, back a couple of years ago.

Hope it finds a good home.

andre1969

How did she manage to spend nearly $3300 on a Comet in 1964? That seems like way too much money.

Would a top trim level, V-8, with air conditioning, plus tax, tags, etc, push it to $3300?

That does seem like a lot of money though, for a slightly upscale compact. My Granddad bought a new Mercury Monterrey 4-door hardtop with the Breezeway rear window for around $3500. Or, more accurately, his '61 Galaxie 500 hardtop sedan plus $1200.

bhill2

boy we really screwed that up didn't we?

For the comfort of everyone involved, I once worked with a highly respected Alzheimer's Disease researcher (no, not as a patient) and he said that the average person does something totally demented (like forgetting the name of your own child) about once a month. This has provided me anxiety relief on many occasions.

andre1969

I just looked it up in my old car book,and the most expensive 4-door Comet in '64 was the Caliente trim level, which base priced at $2,350. I guess it's conceivable that by the time you add an automatic transmission, power steering, power brakes, a V-8 engine, AM radio, whitewall tires, and a few other odds and ends, and you would be up to $3300, with tax, tags, etc. Just a/c alone might have been around $350-400.

Were heaters standard equipment in cars by 1964? Just a few years earlier, in 1957, I believe a heater was optional even in a somewhat upscale car like my '57 DeSoto!

jwilliams2

Andre, you are probably correct. I bought a new Comet Cyclone 289 4spd in '65, and think it was about $3200. Only kept it a year, and traded it for a '66 Cyclone GT which was about $3500. Neither had A/C. So like you said, all in her '64 could have been $3300.

hpmctorque

A few hundred one way or another would barely move the depreciation per mile needle over 576,000 miles. Whatever she paid or overpaid, that Comet owes her nothing.

omarman

Would a top trim level, V-8, with air conditioning, plus tax, tags, etc, push it to $3300?

Wonder what mop and glow or back end dealer profits were like in 1964? And internet car pricing wasn't there yet either. :shades:

stickguy

She was in Fla right? So that $799 doc fee was really going to up the ante on a $2,500 car!

magnette

After seeing the W114 coupe in Fin's post a couple of days ago I went across to the car repairer who works up our road - he's been fiddling with the Magnette this week, as a couple of awkward bits were leaking etc - and he had a metallic green 1972 W114 coupe in for some work - it looked ok - certainly miles better than my Magnette - but had a few rust bubbles..

While at work this week I passed a house with an old Ford 100E on the front garden - looked like it had been there for years - and round the corner a good Morris Minor still in daily use - which made me realise I haven't noticed so many of those in the last year - they were still really common until very recently.

Followed a Triumph Herald 13/60 for a mile or so on my run home last night, and today found myself behind a really nice MGBGT with good chrome etc - I think people are taking their old cars out of storage now for the summer.

We've just gone over to British Summer Time here - the clocks changed ten days ago (I think over there you call it daylight saving) so that means its possible to drive home after work in daylight, and with the schools on holiday this week and next there is less traffic too. Might take the Magnette in myself a couple of times next week if it is not raining too much - its ok in the rain, but the wipers are poor, and it has a useless demister, so a bit of a fair weather car really.

uplanderguy

I believe she's telling the window sticker price. Remember, it's a Merc, not a Ford, and a Caliente, not a '202' or '404' model Comet.

My '63 Lark Daytona Skytop with Avanti engine, sunroof, factory air, Twin Traction, automatic, ps and pb, and reclining seats, tinted glass in all windows, etc., stickered for $3,900. That's a fact!

andys120

Were heaters standard equipment in cars by 1964

Surprisingly not. I specced out a '64 Goat with a college buddy who was gonna buy one after graduation. The heater was a $60 option which he decided to get since he was moving to Cleveland.

fintail

Out here the old cars will be coming out soon - we have similar weather to you, and old cars don't like the constant drizzle. I remember the fintail could be temperamental in the cold damp before it got electronic ignition.

Spotted today: powder blue R107SL with whitewall tires, light yellow Chrysler - Maserati TC, very clean 86-89 Accord LXi.

bhill2

Those were the days when things like heaters were optional, especially on the low-price brands. It was a game; they all had them, but by making them optional they could advertise a lower base price. Often, even on mid-priced cars, the same was true for a radio, power steering and brakes, automatic transmission, and so on. You would have to special order a car not to get them, but they were still 'optional at extra cost'.

au1994

And everything was an a la carte option. I seem to remember reading that the early Mustangs had something like 125 options available. Of course you have to take into account that things we take for granted today (PS, PB) were options and counted into those numbers.

Today everything is a package: Sport Pack, Winter Pack, Luxury Pack etc.

Want heated seats? Sure, just purchase the Winter package @ an additional $3500.

tjc78

And everything was an a la carte option

That is why you see some really crazy optioned old cars. I've seen cars with no A/C, manual steering but a power seat and windows.

That type of thing would never happen today. The package thing gets to be a PITA when looking at cars, but they just can't make them like they used to. Could you imagine with all the things available today what some of the combos would be?

au1994

Modern manufacturing practices with sequencing and JIT deliveries of parts don't lend themselves to a la carte options. Plus what was once optional (PW,PL) is now almost without fail standard.

That is why you see some really crazy optioned old cars Yep, I had a 66 Mustang convertible. It's options were: PS, automatic and pwr top. No A/C as per typical on a vert back then but no PB. It had the 289 2bbl which was one of I believe 4 engine choices, 3 of which were V-8's.

Funny how when watching the auctions on TV you hear the phrase 'one of one' with these options or colors. Duh...when there were thousands of possbile combo's is it really that rare unless you are talking about a Hemi 'Cuda convertible?

andre1969

I'd imagine it took a lot longer for power brakes to catch on with smaller cars than power steering did. I had a '67 Chrysler Newport that had been owned by a little old lady since 1971, and even it didn't have power brakes! It really didn't take much effort to stop, and I guess the fact that a frail little woman owned the car from 1971 until her death in 1999, without rear-ending anything only adds evidence to that.

Both of my Darts, a '69 GT with a slant six and a '68 270 with a V-8, had power steering, but not power brakes...9" on the \6 and 10" on the V-8. I didn't think either one required too much effort to stop, although sometimes the brakes on the '68 would get out of adjustment, and the engine always idled a bit fast, so in hot weather sometimes you'd have to stand on it a bit or put it in neutral, or the engine would start to over-ride the brakes.

I guess once disc brakes became more common, a power assist was almost mandatory.

andys120

I guess once disc brakes became more common, a power assist was almost mandatory.

I'm not sure why that should be so. I owned a couple of disc-brake sports cars that needed no power assist and worked very well.

tjc78

guess once disc brakes became more common, a power assist was almost mandatory.

My 79 Continental had power brakes that ran off the power steering pump (Hydroboost was what Ford called it I believe). Something came up from the road and knocked off all the belts leaving me with no power brakes or steering.

It took two feet to stop that beast from highway speed. I really thought I was going to ram something. :surprise: (good thing I didn't who knows what that barge would have done to a modern car)

stickguy

I learned on a '69 Volvo. Disk brakes all around, but not power. Plenty of squeal, but no power anything on that car (steering either).

took more effort than a PB car, but not particularly hard. And you did get very good feedback on what was going on!

reminds me of a drivers ed story (stop me if you heard this!) This was when you still got it in school (real driving). It came my turn to drive the '78ish (downsized) Caprice. The first thing the teacher had you do was go telephone pole to pole, trying to stop exactly even with it.

Well, I managed the "let the car move itself" part (not having IIRC actually driving an AT at that point). But when it came to the stopping part, oops. I had only driven the Volvo and a 70ish super beetle at that point. So, when you wanted to stop, you had to inform the car of that in a stern manner.

turns out, you do the same thing in a Caprice, and you about bounce the front bumper off the road, and put the instructer through the windshield. Had to learn the nuances of power assist pretty quick! Steering also, since the Volvo took a might forearm heave to change direction, unlike the 1 finger option in the Chebbie.

andre1969

I'm not sure why that should be so. I owned a couple of disc-brake sports cars that needed no power assist and worked very well.

Well, those old sportscars were probably very lightweight, low torque, and didn't require much effort to stop, anyway. If the floorboards rusted out you could almost stop 'em Fred Flintstone style!

But, it does take more effort to clamp down on something, like a disc brake does, than it is to simply push outward, like the wheel cylinder on a drum brake does. Plus, drum brake shoes have a larger contact area than disc brake pads do (I'm talking about the area of the actual brake, not the swept area of the rotor or drum it comes into contact with.

With a smaller, lighter car it won't make much difference, but the bigger you get, the more noticeable the difference is going to be.

andre1969

turns out, you do the same thing in a Caprice, and you about bounce the front bumper off the road, and put the instructer through the windshield. Had to learn the nuances of power assist pretty quick!

I head to learn the nuances of those old, over-boosted power assists. Before I bought my '57 DeSoto, most of my driving was limited to the likes of my '80 Malibu, Granddad's '85 Silverado, or Grandmom's '85 LeSabre. All of 'em had front disc/rear drum, power brakes. Oh, and my '69 Dart GT, with the 9" non-power drums all around.

Well, the DeSoto is drum all around, but they're something huge, like 12" I think. And the sucker has SIX wheel cylinders rather than the usual four (2 per wheel up front, one per wheel in back). And there was the over-boosted power assist. I remember one day I was riding around with a bunch of friends in the car and had to hit the brakes hard, for whatever reason, and one of my friends from the back seat actually did end up pitching forward into the front seat with us! The other two in the back pitched forward as well, one of them hitting my seatback, and shoving me forward. Ahh, the good old days of no seatbelts, and seatbacks that didn't latch into place.

If I go awhile without driving it, sometimes I have to re-learn my '67 Catalina's braking. It'll stop pretty quick, and pitch you forward with little effort.

Oh, and as for power steering? Well, I went for awhile driving my '68 Dart with broken power steering, which is actually worse than manual steering, since you have a quicker ratio and the pump seems to fight with you. When I got my '82 Cutlass Supreme, at first I would try to steer it like I did with the Dart, and the result would be that I'd whip the steering wheel over much further than I expected. Not so much on the open road, but when it came to tight parking maneuvers and such, I had to re-learn that I didn't need to put that much muscle into it!

jljac

Whatever she paid or overpaid, that Comet owes her nothing

I have to admit that the Falcon/Comet line of vehicles from the 1960s have been proven to be quite durable. I see them more often here in Santa Monica than I do cars of the 1970s such as the Pinto, Vega, Maverick or Chevette. A neighbor has a Ford Falcon Ranchero pick up that he drives regularly. I sometimes see old Darts and Novas too in numbers that are about equal to the number of running Studebakers in this area.

I agree that during the 1960s used cars were almost always advertised with a heater as an option although I know of no cars in the Chicago area that did not have one at that time.

My Uncle used to complain that the 1960 Studebaker Lark VI he bought for his wife cost more than the full size 1964 Chevy Biscayne he bought for himself although the Chevy had a radio and a sunvisor on the passenger's side of the car.

andre1969

I have to admit that the Falcon/Comet line of vehicles from the 1960s have been proven to be quite durable.

I actually still see one Falcon, a '65 or so 2-door sedan, running around on occasion. It's showing its age, and the rear quarters are more pop-rivited sheetmetal than they are factory-original, but in constrast, I can't remember the last time I saw a Dart/Valiant, or a Nova being used as a daily driver.

I see lots of Darts and Novas at classic car shows though, while the Falcon doesn't seem to be as common. But to be fair, it's mainly '68+ Novas and '67+ Darts and Valiants. The Falcon's heyday was pretty much over once the Mustang hit the scene.

ab348

Yeah, my '64 Skylark convertible had options of V-8, automatic, PS and radio. It also had a power top which I think was standard on the Skylark convert. I know the Special convert had a manual top standard. The brakes on it were not bad, all things considered. My '68 Cutlass has drums all around with power assist and they really are not much different in terms of stopping ability. We owned from new a '74 Maverick and it was equipped with power steering and manual (?) drum brakes. They were terrible brakes, always dove one way or another. When I first learned to drive we had several Euro cars with non-power disc brakes, including an Austin 1100 and a pair of Volvo 144s which had 4-wheel discs if I recall. Those all seemed very good in the braking dept.

Mr_Shiftright

I am constantly having to deal with clients with 50s/60s cars, who claim they have a "very rare car" .

Turns out it IS rare, but only because they have the pink sun visors AND the magic eye headlights AND the rear window defroster, and painstaking research has told them that only 256 were made with that combination!

So I sit them down and explain how only MAJOR options are relevant (sometimes) to rarity, because the actual number of combinations back then runs into the tens of thousands of possibilities.

berri

I recall as a little kid that my parents had an old friend visit with a gorgeous 57 Chrysler convertible. They ended up in an accident because they stomped the power brake and it went into a spin. You are right that they were known for being touchy.

bhill2

Yeah, you could create some oddballs, but I have to say that I miss the flexibility. The biggy, of course, was the ability to tailor the drivetrain to your needs. For full-sized cars you typically had your choice of half a dozen engines, each with 3 or 4 transmission choices. Also, you could choose from a wide variety of final drive ratios depending on how you were going to use it.

fintail

Orange Spitfire just drove by. Also saw an 80s 911.

fintail

One car range offered today comes to mind that comes marginally close to that - sadly, it isn't cheap - MB E-class. In NA you can choose from 4 engines, RWD or AWD, numerous colors, 2 interior materials, and get it as a sedan, hardtop coupe, wagon, or convertible (or a 4 door coupe if you include CLS). In Europe, you can also get it in manual and have a few more engine choices, and more color and interior choices. Options aren't complete ala carte, but many things can be specified individually.

andre1969

I think in many cases, the fewer engine choices isn't necessarily a bad thing. For instance, Pontiac offered SIX engine choices on my '76 LeMans. They started off with a Chevy 250 inline six with 105 hp, that probably took about 21 seconds to get from 0-60. Maybe even worse than that. Next up was an Olds 260 V-8 with 110 hp. CR tested a '77 Cutlass Supreme sedan with that engine and got 0-60 in about 21 seconds, so that's why I wonder if the 6 might have been a bit worse?

Next up was a 160 hp Pontiac 350-2bbl, which I think was good for around 13 seconds. In California, they gave you a 350-4bbl, but it had a smog pump. My old car book lists it as 165 hp, but I have an old "Motor's" repair manual from 1976 that lists it as 175 hp. I remember Shifty saying that those old repair manuals would probably be more accurate than my Consumer Guide car books! This is the engine that my car has. I've timed it with a stopwatch from 0-60, and it's usually between 12 and 13 seconds.

Then, came the Pontiac 400 V-8, which I think was standard in wagons. My Consumer Guide says a 170 hp version was available and a 185 hp version was available, but I don't know how accurate that is. It also says that the 170 hp version was standard in the Grand LeMans, but I think my 350-4bbl equipped car sorta de-bunks that!

Motortrend tested a '77 LeMans police car with the 400, and got 0-60 in about 11.4 seconds, so I imagine the '77 would be comparable.

At the top of the heap was a 200 hp 455, which I'm sure was extremely rare in a LeMans, although it might have popped up more often in the wagons. I see '76 Grand Prixes come up on eBay on occasion with it, as well, so there it was a bit more common. Anyway, I've heard it could break the 10 second barrier in 0-60, but only barely.

As for axle ratios, I know the 350 and up engines came standard with a tall 2.41:1 ratio, although I'm sure the 250 and 260 had to use a quicker ratio than that. I'm not sure what other ratios they might have offered. I think the 1977.5 Can Am used a 3.08:1, so maybe they offered something that quick in '76?