I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

andre1969

When it comes front legroom, believe it or not, some of the stingiest cars have also been some of the biggest. My '67 Catalina and the '69 Bonneville I once had, cars on a 121" and 125" wb, respectively, actually had less legroom up front than my '68 Dart!

And my '57 DeSoto, for all its 126" wb glory, seems like it has even less than the Catalina and Bonneville, although I think that's partly because of poor pedal placement. The firewall is actually far enough away that I can stretch my legs out totally straight without touching, but the pedals are mounted pretty close.

I've heard that, for the most part throughout history, no matter how big they've gotten on the outside, cars have usually been designed first and foremost to fit an average-build male driver of around 5'10-5'11. So, if you're overly tall, short, obese, wide, etc, you could be SOL.

My 2000 Intrepid used to bother me a little because the dash came pretty close to my right knee, even with the seat all the way back. I always figured that if I got into a bad enough accident in that car, I ran the possibility of actually getting trapped in it if the dash got shoved back and into my knee. And, IIRC, in crash testing, that was the main area the Intrepid came up poorly...legs and feet.

fintail

I guess that sounds right, and matches past complaints - exterior size doesn't mean a space efficient interior. A lot of mid-size cars tend to have the best ergonomics, although large cars can have a lot of room if they are 4 door.

The recent wraparound dash trend isn't helping anything either. I sat in a new rental Taurus and was pretty shocked about how the dash and console design wastes so much space and makes it maybe too tight for the driver. It's supposed to be a big car, right? I'm a little taller than average, not particularly large, but I didn't find that it felt the roomiest.

Speaking of obscure cars, something I see a couple times a year here just drove by - black 61 Ford 4 door HT in apparently excellent condition. How many of those can be left? I'd like to know the story behind it...gotta keep a camera ready to go beside me.

kyfdx

Awesome visibility here, too..

andre1969

I sat in a new rental Taurus and was pretty shocked about how the dash and console design wastes so much space and makes it maybe too tight for the driver. It's supposed to be a big car, right? I'm a little taller than average, not particularly large, but I didn't find that it felt the roomiest.

I've noticed that, too, about the new Taurus. The center console sits up too high for my tastes, and it's pretty wide. As a result, the seats are a bit on the narrow side, almost as if they put compact car seats in what's supposed to be a semi-large car. I remember the footwell being pretty narrow, as well. I don't remember legroom being a problem, but I still felt cocooned in.

Oh, my grandparents on my Dad's side of the family once had a '61 Ford Galaxie 500 4-door hardtop. Granddad spoke really fondly of the car. However, he only had it about two years, and traded on a new '63 Mercury Monterrey 4-door hardtop. When I asked him why, if it was such a great car, he traded it so soon, he said it was because he wanted that "Breezeway" rear window so that he could haul lumber, ladders, and such!

Apparently that novelty wore off after awhile though, because that car gave way to either a '66 or '67 Tempest. I know it was a 2-door, but don't know if it was a hardtop or not, and Granddad doesn't remember. By that time the kids were all grown, and they figured they didn't need a big, 4-door car anymore.

One thing I had never known, at least until Grbeck had pointed it out, was that the '60-64 Ford, while appearing all-new, was actually heavily based on the '57-59. The '60+ is a much bigger car, and it's not apparent, but if you look in the trunk, it's obvious. The whole area around the wheel wells and in between looks the same. And this is why Fords from that era have such shallow trunks. The cars got lower, but the frame stayed the same, so the trunk floor height was unchanged. So, as the cars got lower starting with the '60, the trunk got shallower.

fintail

Thin pillars, those were the days. E30 must have been a huge seller in this region, I still see them daily.

fintail

Cocooned in, that's the Taurus experience. I guess in this day and age where a lot of people are kind of scaredy cats, some will want that, but I don't necessarily like it. It gave me the "big on the outside small on the inside" feel that you get in old Jaguars.

I know Fords of that era were also very skilled at rusting, which probably explains their apparent low survival rates, and their weight probably encouraged scrapping too. My grandpa had what I am pretty sure was a 57 Ford 4 door hardtop, but I think he went Mopar after that.

Looks like a fintail (this one appears to be a later model) had enough room to operate a rotary dial car phone and drive:

imidazol97

The early Mercedes had a "car" phone?

fintail

It's aftermarket. You couldn't even get a factory installed radio or factory installed AC in a fintail.

berri

...and Ernestine the telephone operator says - one ringy dingy

andre1969

She's kinda cute in a geeky sort of way. But, that smirk tells me that she's already diced Danger-prone Daphne into little bit-sized pieces, let Scooby and Shaggy into a trap, and has Freddy hog-tied and gagged in the trunk!

kyfdx

If you live in a rust-free area.... then, the E30 is pretty darn sturdy... It's the tin worm that kills most of them...

fintail

She has to be a baddie...the good guy never drives a car like that :shades:

fintail

This area is better for rust avoidance than most. I still see an E21 or two every now and then as well.

magnette

By far the roomiest car I have ever driven was my dad's old 1971 Wolseley 18/85 auto. The dashboard was a mile away, the seats were club sized armchairs, and there was enough room for me to sit in the back with the front seat back far enough for dad to drive - and we were both 6' 3'' at the time.
The whole car was under 14 foot long, too. Transverse engine helped, of course.

Basically a big Mini, with wider and longer body and it was also very rigid - apparently in tests it was more solid than most other shells of its time - just looked clunky - if it was a bit more slinky it would have been a great seller - and they were British Leyland so the build quality wasn't stellar - although dad's was alright.

fintail

So that's a big landcrab kind of thing, right? I kind of like those. The Wolseley version has to be very rare. There are a few landcrab variants still intact in NA, but not many.

kyfdx

The Buick Somerset, Pontiac Grand Am clone..

Weren't we just discussing these?

This was a pretty rusty example, but still had all the graphics (Quad 4!!).. and, a fake convertible top...

Very few of those FWD GM cars from the '80s still on the road..

andre1969

Back in 1990, my uncle wanted to buy a new, smallish car, and went up to the local Pontiac/Dodge dealer to check out the Grand Ams. He hated the cheap, plasticky interior so much that he bought a used '88 LeBaron turbo coupe instead.

Now, I know that almost sounds like the punchline from a bad joke...griping about the bad interior of the Grand Am and then getting a K-car. But, for what it was, that LeBaron actually had a really nice interior. It was actually a pretty nice car all around, and about as sexy as a K-car could hope to get.

I kinda liked the Olds Calais and Buick Somerset Regal when they first came out. It seemed like the Olds/Buick versions had much nicer interiors than the Grand Am. I knew someone with a Somerset Regal that had the Iron Duke and manual transmission, and I think they got close to 200,000 miles out of it.

Very few of those FWD GM cars from the '80s still on the road.

Same here, for the most part. Although it seems like the Cutlass Ciera, of all things, has had a somewhat good survival rate. Those things were hot sellers for a pretty long time, though, so there were, and are, a lot left I guess. Plus, they did make them up through 1996!

I'll occasionally spot an 80's FWD Electra/98 or LeSabre/88, as well, that's still running along. I think transmission issues killed most of the earlier ones, but starting around 1988 or so, I think they were improved somewhat. And, let's face it, as old as those cars are these days, an empty tank of gas and a flat tire will often total them.

magnette

It sold well here really - and because it appealed to the old fashioned conservative country types, it tended to survive better than the Austin or Morris 1800, which was more basic. At car shows now the Wolseley is more likely to turn up than either of its cheaper relatives - although most have gone to the crusher.

lemko

My girlfriend from way back in the day had one of those early car phones in her 1969 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham. It had a handset like the one in the picture, but the rest of it was mounted under the dashboard somehow.

lemko

She's kinda cute in a geeky sort of way. But, that smirk tells me that she's already diced Danger-prone Daphne into little bit-sized pieces, let Scooby and Shaggy into a trap, and has Freddy hog-tied and gagged in the trunk!

Jinkies, andre!

lemko

There's a nice light gray Park Avenue similar to my '88 that's usually parked near my wife's workplace. For I car I absolutely hated when they were new, the FWD C-body Park Avenue actually turned out to be an awesome car.

hpmctorque

I owned a '86 Grand Am 2 door, 4-cylinder with 5-speed, and the Grand Touring suspension (or whatever Pontiac called the upgrade that included 14" wheels vs. the standard 13"). The car handled very well and was very low maintenance, which is unusual for an '80s domestic. The weak component was the Iron Duke engine, which was marketed as the Tech-4. That was a real misnomer for an old design OHVer. It was a very agricultural, noisy, low revving mill, with acceptable torque, but sounded like a diesel when it was miled up. It finally died of head gasket failure at 188,000. Overall, though, it was a good, economical car, with nice styling for its day.

fintail

I'll have to look through my pics...I used to live in an area where was a big landcrab variant in town, it was probably restored and in nice condition. I think it was an Austin.

bhill2

I used to live in an area where was a big landcrab variant in town, it was probably restored and in nice condition. I think it was an Austin.

Was that the Austin America? My Physics professor at U. of Wash bought one new. He wanted to get a Jag but his wife wouldn't let him.

magnette

It's my understanding that your Austin America was based on our 1100/300 range - the so-called "Landcrab" was bigger.
There was an Austin which was based on the 1800 bodyshell but had a RWD set-up, as opposed to the FWD 1800(and later 2200) and it also had a straight six engine mounted fore & aft rather than transverse. It was the Austin 3litre - that never caught on over here and I don't imagine it did well anywhere else either.

ab348

Growing up in Halifax, Nova Scotia in the '60s and '70s, British cars were popular here and our family had a few. We had an Austin 1100 and each of my brothers bought an Austin America almost simultaneously, one BRG, one dark red. I figured my dad might spring for an Austin 1800 since he needed the room for his real estate clients, but he never made the leap. However, a school/childhood friend of my mom owned one and we would see him driving it around town - he became Mayor of the city a bit later.

fintail

Here's the car I saw:



I had a suspicion it was a Canadian import - how many of these would have sold in the US then? I saw it a few times, but I don't live in the area anymore.

I've never seen an Austin America on the road, but I've seen a few that had been off the road for eons.

andys120

Hardly any of those Maxis made it to the US, I have never seen one. I've been in an MG1100 but they were pretty rare in the USA as well.

Austin Americas were the first import subcompacts available here with A/T, in fact that was the only transmission here. As such they might have sold well
but by the late '60s the poor reputation of British cars killed any chance for them to gain a foothold.

It didn't help that the America lived up (down?) to that rep.

fintail

I think it's an Austin 1800 - here's a Maxi, a size smaller, no trunk hump, and didn't come around til the early 70s I think:



I don't think we ever got the Maxi, yeah...and probably a good thing, would have been an even faster death for BL cars here.

isellhondas

"There once was a man from Boston who drove a little Austin.....oh nevermind.

I remember the Austin Americans. My wife once accidently backed into one in a parking lot. A derenged guy with hair down to his waist and a huge red beard got out of the austin and started screaming at her.

Before she could say anything he jumped back into the Austn and tore out of the parking lot.

No damage to our car but she said the low speed "tap" did a lot of damage to a fender and his grill.

hpmctorque

Weren't the Austin America and the MG 1100 essentially the same car, with different grilles, trim and interior bits?

fintail

I think so. Was an Austin America 4-door ever sold in NA? I have only seen 2-door models.

Speaking of the MG1100 and touching on another thread, the Matchbox version is probably the most common/cheap 60s era model , the normal issue can easily be had for $20 or so, mint in box.

fintail

Before the cops came, no doubt.

I seem to remember the transmission in those being especially bad.

jljac

This was not the first time Austin tried to participate in the American car market. Here is an interesting history of the American Austin that began in 1929 when they built them in Butler Pennsylvania, which led to the American Bantam, which led first Jeep of WWII fame.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Austin_Car_Company.

Willys got the main Jeep contract because they had facilities that were so much larger than American Bantam, but Ford built them too. The American Bantam was and is still the official car of Mickey Mouse.

Mr_Shiftright

American Bantams are pretty nice little cars--they made a lot of mechanical improvements to the original Austin, and of course added a rather stylish body.

Don't you just want to pick it up and KISS IT? :P

isellhondas

Yeah, I figured the guy had outstanding warrents or something.

Those transmissions were such junk that most shops wouldnt' touch them.

ab348

The America's claim to fame was that it had a 1300 cc engine, not the 1100 that the... er, 1100 had.

Here in Canada the automatic was an option. The ones my brothers bought were both 4-speed manuals.

I believe they were only available in 2-door body styles.

andys120

I should mention that when they were running right.an MG 1100 was just a blast to drive. My buddy used to blast his dad's 1100 around town, cornering on the door handles all the while.

Build quality was not so great. Once he was having a fight with his GF and slammed the door, the window shattered leaving her covered in bits of glass.

stickguy

on my way to work yesterday, passed an early 70s (I think, can't quite figure out the bumpers) but it looked restored. Nice medium red convertible. Not something you normally see out on the roads of Jersey.

hpmctorque

Regarding whether a 4-door Austin America was ever sold in the U.S., sorry, I don't know. Since AB348 believes that only 2-doors were sold in Canada, my guess would be that the same was true for the U.S.

hpmctorque

Imagine what fun your buddy would have had with the 1300 America!

lemko

My 2005 Mercury Grand Marquis LS hit 100,000 miles this morning at 07:04 AM EDST just 1/4 block north of Robbins Avenue on Tabor Avenue in NE Philadelphia. Here's a pic to commemorate the event!

tjc78

Another 100000 and it will be broken in. :P

My Grandfathers 04 is around 70k. It drives like new.

fintail

Congrats. In another 200K it will probably still be out there as a taxi or airport town car kind of thing.

michaellno

Am spending the weekend in the Springs (again - wife is in class this weekend and next). Saw a couple of oldies but goodies.

1) Bentley Brooklands - looked to be in decent shape.
2) '77 or '78 Chrysler LeBaron coupe - looked like something Andre would like to have. A little TLC would make it look good. Driven by a younger guy - he had a kid in a car seat in back.

magnette

Sorry - I haven't looked at the computer since Friday. That is a MkII 1800 - either an Austin or a Morris would have a similar grille here - but there I think you only got Austins. The boot / trunk was larger on the MkII than the Mk I but for the Wolseley they stayed with the same size boot, for some unknown reason - probably someone had ordered too may short boot lids so they kept the Wolseley the same.

They even did the same thing when they upgraded to a transverse six, the 2200 - the equivalent Wolseley Six had that shorter boot.

The Austin Maxi - famed for the Grunwald Euro vacation - used the same doors as the 1800/2200, but was a bit narrower and had a hatchback - it was a good car but the rubbish build quality initially was enough to put people off it - I think they introduced it with only a new 1500cc engine and the first few thousand had a wrongly calibrated dipstick, so they ran out of oil - by the time it was fixed, the car was a dud

In the last week I've seen an Austin 1300 2door - a late one circa 1972 - in daily use - and my local garage have an early 1964 1100 (4door) in for repair - it has been off the road for about ten years but amazingly it isn't rusted through.

fintail

Ah yes, the Griswold's Maxi rental car amazing that such a small car could destroy Stonehenge :shades:

Mr_Shiftright

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/3033411127.html

tjc78

I'm sure he has a lot more than 21K in it. Interesting to say the least.

Mr_Shiftright

He certainly has the right stuff in there---definitely not a rat rod. Oh, he must be into it $50K at least.

That's the usual formula for the market value of rods:

OI = MV

---------
2

Where OI is original investment, MV is Market Value, and 2 is "reality". :P