I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

andre1969

That's a '55 Imperial. The '56 had tailfins that were more pronounced, and the wheelbase was longer, although that extra length wouldn't really be noticeable in the pic that Fintail took. The additional wheelbase was added in back, creating a longer rear deck, but no more interior room. It's more noticeable on the 4-door models, as the little bit of quarter panel that's between the back door and the rear wheel opening is much larger. On 2-doors it's not as noticeable.

ab348

Surprised to see a basic '67 Plymouth Fury II 4-door sedan tooling around town today. Looked original, with somewhat dull but presentable paint and no obvious aftermarket stuff added on. Driven by an older fellow, appeared to be a daily driver. Unusual for these parts.

Seeing it brought to mind a memory. For perhaps 30 years a '68 Fury III 2 door hardtop lived in a house on a main street in my town, usually parked in the driveway. I cannot remember how many times I thought about stopping and seeing if they wanted to sell it. One day it was gone. Looked good right to the last time I saw it, a handsome car.

michaellno

your mention of the Fury made me look up this

On a local lot here in town. No idea if the price is right or anything.

bhill2

I wonder how they came to use the 'Grand Fury' designation, since there was no such thing and there is a picture of the badge that identifies it as a Fury III. There was a 'Gran Fury' offered later, but not in 1968. I guess the mis-identification isn't a big deal, but it raises a red flag for me.

Mr_Shiftright

Overpriced for this tired car, but it would be a fair price for a very clean one inside and out. I'd rate this one about a 4+/3- and value it at $3200--$3750.

needs seat, carpeting, dash repair, engine bay cleanup---can't see underneath, so can't say about rust issues.

fintail

Speaking of Imperials, I saw this odd lineup in a public parking garage, also in St. Augustine:

An 81-83 Imperial under the cover, then a late 80s Toro, then a Cordoba, then what I think was another similar era Toro or Riviera, then a downsized Eldo, then maybe another small Toro or Riv.

lemko

That Fury would make a cool everyday hooptie, but I wouldn't pay anywhere near that asking price. I don't like how junked-up that engine bay is and a 1968 Fury III would not have worn dog dish hubcaps from a later police car. I'm sure that seat cover is hiding a shredded front bench seat. I think $2,500 would be very generous and I really like the 1968 full-size Plymouth.

andre1969

That's also not a 440, unless the engine has been replaced with something non-original. According to the VIN, it originally had a 383-2bbl (the fifth character, "G"...a 440 would have been "K" or "L")

I briefly had a '67 Newport with 383-2bbl, and it was nothing spectacular. For some reason, the 383-2 was really choked down that year, to a measly 270 hp. I think it was usually 295-305 hp from 1959-66, and rebounded to 290 for '68. A Newport would also be a few hundred pounds heavier than a Fury, so maybe a 383-2 '68 Fury would be a bit more exciting to stomp on than my Newport was?

I do like that Fury, but not for $5400! I'm with you on the $2500...and less if it has bondo in it.

If I ever get an old 4-door, I'm not going to pay much for one, unless it's in primo condition, and a hardtop!

andys120

I was driving home thru town, it was a beautiful evening and what do I see but a flat screen two-tone (black over red) Austin-Healey, top down The grille was football shaped which denotes a 3000 (as opposed to a 100) and the flat windshield made it a 3000 Mk 1.

I happen to have a 1:18 miniature of the same car, what a pretty sight!

Mr_Shiftright

I agree, lem---I was being a bit generous based on the premise that the car might be better than the photos suggest. But the engine bay does not portend well.

bhill2

That's also not a 440, unless the engine has been replaced with something non-original. According to the VIN, it originally had a 383-2bbl (the fifth character, "G"...a 440 would have been "K" or "L")

Yeah, as I mentioned earlier the inaccurate designation of the car as a 'Grand Fury' set off warning bells for me. I don't trust the description at all. I don't even know what to make of the dog-dish hubcaps on what is supposed to be a top of the line model. Can anyone tell from the pictures whether it is a 383 or a (non-original) 440?

fintail

Today in GA - blue and off white Austin Healey, survivor condition ca. 62 Falcon sedan, decent survivor 77-79 "glass house" Caprice/Impala coupe in blue with a grey landau top, a couple of decent looking W126, and surprising to me, several 80s era brick and angles Volvos.

ab348

I'm sure many of us who grew up in the '60s and read car magazines remember the mantra that lots of articles used to state - that the 383 2-bbl engine was the smart choice, since that was what Mopar engineers ordering their own big cars tended to select. Why that was, I was never sure.

ab348

I guess the arrival of good weather is bringing lots of vehicles out of the woodwork here in Nova Scotia.

Across the street from my office is a Starbucks, and in the parking lot today was a bright green '74 Gremlin, looking pretty sharp, even with a period set of Ansen mag wheels. I think this might belong to someone working there, as I seem to remember seeing it last year. If I get the chance I will have to take a closer look.

On the drive home tonight on the expressway, a '76 Bonneville 4-door hardtop, also looking very nice, sort of a pale beige/cream shade with brown vinyl roof. It was moving fast, and had that nose-up/tail-down attitude that immediately made me recall my holiday trips when I was young and seeing hundreds of similar cars with that pose speeding along on the Interstates.

Mr_Shiftright

No not from a photo.

stickguy

went to dinner at a local bar/restaurant. and in the lot, just parked like a normal car, was a brown/bronze Bricklin. Looked to be in very nice shape. My wife was aghast at me detouring to go look at it.

of course she had no clue what it was, but I let that slide.

explorerx4

My ignorant impression is that is a big engine and I think it is a 440.
I had a Plymouth with a 383 and I don't think it was as physically large as that one.

texases

I thought the 383/426 wedge/440 shared the same basic block.

kyfdx

Leaving the fancy pants car show last week, this one was in the parking area with a for-sale sign on it..

Pristine condition.... asking $9995 .. :surprise:

What struck me was how modern this vehicle looked, compared to our '87 BMW... almost like it could have been ten years newer....

Mr_Shiftright

yeah I don't think you can tell a 383 from a 440 without digging around a little for block numbers stamped (on the left cylinder head face as I recall)--also I think if you lifted the air cleaner that the carb would tell you (of course that can be changed easily).

berri

I recall as a kid back in the 60's that Mopar had a market strategy of outsizing their engine choices versus Ford and GM. An Impala had a 283, but a Fury had a 318. The 383 models took on 350 GM engines and the Ford 351 and 352. If you moved up to a Ford 390, Mopar offered the 440, etc. Anyway, I remember that the 383 had a reputation back then as a very reliable powerplant combined with that Torqueflite transmission. Unfortunately, my father learned on a 66 Fury that there were several different Torqueflites and his version broke down at around 70K.

fintail

If it was really truly mechanically and cosmetically mint, with no needs, it could be worth that. Nice ones are hard to find, and they do have a little cult around them. With the body cladding and if it had euro lights, it would look pretty modern, too.

Saw a few oldies today - Tempo coupe, earlier Bronco II, Reatta, 70s Rolls, donk 75 Caprice convertible,

kyfdx

Yeah... I don't follow that market... I know they don't bring M3 money.. Actually, I agree...as nice as that one looked, it might not have been over-priced..

My son went to see another one with his friend this week... .asking $3500... You can imagine what that one was like.. he estimated it was a $1500 car at best..

andys120

It's Motorcycle weekend in New Hamster and there are bikes everywhere but also some interesting four-wheelers:

-427 Cobra, bright red, most likely a replica since these are rare and too valuable to drive.

-Ford GT, latter day in Gulf Blue/orange livery.

-Late 30s Pontiac coupe, black, lowered but otherwise fairly stock looking.

explorerx4

Saw a Porsche 914, orange with black top.
Almost all done, missing lower rear valence and looked great.
It was a 914-6, so it sounded 'like a Porsche'.
Also, a butter yellow and white mid 50's Chrysler or Dodge coupe.
I've seen it before and looks great up close.
Also, a very heavy sounding '70 or so black Corvette convertible.

ab348

Saw one here as well - Kermit green, P O R S C H E stripe down near the sills, appeared to be very nice, obviously restored. It was a regular 914, not a 6-cylinder. Probably someone's summertime runabout.

andre1969

I thought the 383/426 wedge/440 shared the same basic block.

Same basic block, but there were two versions of it, one with a raised deck and one without. The 350/361/383/400 were the regular deck, while the 413, 426, and 440 were the raised deck. Also oddly, in 1959-60, there was a raised deck 383, which was used in Chrysler Windsors and Saratogas, while Dodge/DeSoto/Plymouth used the regular deck.

Seems silly to me to have two different 383's, but maybe they did it that way so they could say the Chrysler 383 was different from the others and somehow "better"? FWIW, they both had the same hp and torque ratings. Bore and stroke was different.

I would presume a raised deck engine would look like it's sitting higher under the hood, since it's taller? I never can tell the difference at car shows though, so maybe the difference isnt' really noticeable, except to a trained eye.

FWIW, at a quick glance, the old 318 poly looks the same size as a big block to me, as well. But the giveway here is that it has the distributor in back (the big blocks were up front) and the oddly shaped valve covers with the "sawtooth" shape on the outer side.

andre1969

I recall as a kid back in the 60's that Mopar had a market strategy of outsizing their engine choices versus Ford and GM. An Impala had a 283, but a Fury had a 318.

I wonder how many Impalas were sold with the 283, versus the 327? The 283 was a good engine for awhile, and had some cool high-output versions such as the dual quad and fuel injection. But by 1962, it just seemed like sort of a loss leader, basically a cheap way for someone to be able to brag about having a V-8.

The Mopar 318-2bbl had 230 hp in most years, whereas the Chevy 283-2bbl was usually good for around 195 I think. But then, Chevy's 327 started at 250 hp, which I think was a mild 4-bbl, and went up to 300 for the hot version.

I always thought it was a shame that Mopar didn't do more with the smallblock in later years. They did have a hot version of the 273 for a few years, and then of course, there's the legendary 340. But by and large, the 318 was just a mass-market, basic 2bbl...sturdy, reliable, fairly powerful for what it was, but not all that glamorous.

The first 318 actually was a performance engine...it powered the 1957 Fury, and had 290 hp, with dual quads. Lesser Plymouths used the 277 or 301 variant, which ranged from 197-235 hp. For 1958, the 277/301 were dropped, and replaced with a 318 that had 225 hp in 2-bbl form or 250 in 4-bbl.

From 1959-62, a 318-4bbl was offered with 260 hp, but it was dropped for 1963. I guess the thinking at Mopar was that if you wanted some power, they'd rather you went with the 361-2bbl. It had a healthy 295 hp from 1958-60, but was cut to 265 hp for 1961.

I guess the 361 was still a better choice in the bigger cars, as it would have more torque than a 318-4bbl.

uplanderguy

Andre, my unscientific guess is that right up through '67, the last year of the 283, the 283/Powerglide comination would have been the best-selling powertrain combination in all full-size Chevys, Impala or otherwise.

That's sure what I saw most growing up, and even at that tender age I noticed stuff like that. You could always tell a 283 by either the car being identified on the front fender as that, or V8's with no number I.D. meant the car was a 283 (a 'vee' emblem with no number above it, that is, on the front fender).

Sixes usually had no outside engine identification of any kind, except for the '63 model year big Chevys.

ab348

My dad bought a new '67 Pontiac Parisienne 4-door hardtop, white with a red interior. The Parisienne was a Chevy under the skin, and ours had the 283/Powerglide combo. That car seemed quick to me. Certainly I don't recall him or my older brother complaining about the power.

andre1969

Sixes usually had no outside engine identification of any kind, except for the '63 model year big Chevys.

My Dad had a '63 Impala SS409 with the 425 hp setup. He got a perverse sort of pleasure ouf of putting those 6-cyl badges on his car.

I'd imagine that most people were savvy enough though, to tell from the rumble, that there wasn't no 6-cyl under the hood!

As for the 283's, I don't see them too often at car shows. Most of what I see are 327's or big blocks. But, I guess that would stand to reason. Just as hardtops and convertibles are more likely to be preserved than a 4-door sedan, I'm sure the bigger, stronger engines usually see a better survival rate as well. Either that, or the smaller engine gets yanked and a bigger one thrown in.

lemko

...blue AMC Pacer X in front of me on Meadowbrook Lane near Rhawn, a very dark blue 1986 Buick LeSabre coupe on Strahle near Verree and a white 1977-79 Ford Thunderbird with maroon landau roof and side moldings on Rising Sun near Loney in NE Philly.

texases

...this morning's comics! "Shoe" had it, and a number of other oldsters, pretty well drawn.

stickguy

shoe owns one of them. Ernie in "piranha club" has one too.

uplanderguy

That is too funny, Andre. I can remember my grandparents' new '63 Bel Air wagon, light metallic green, fawn interior, 283, Powerglide, positraction (or 'positive traction' as Grandpa called it). I can also remember their '58 Chevy Brookwood wagon before it.

imidazol97

in this issue of Hemmings Classic Cars.
1950 Wayfarer cnvertible short passenger compartment convertible in light, light green
1956 Coronet
1952 Coronet

1953 Firedome DeSoto--very nice car as to styling.

1957 Crown Imperial

1950 Windsor in two-door coupe appearance
1955 C-300 in hot red two-door

1950 Deluxe 4-door Plymouth in light green
1957 Fury two-door hardtop in white

and another article is a drive report on 1956 Custom Royal Lancer
with white top, black trunk, hood, sills, and fins, and dark ruby red lower.

Pictures are gorgeous. I think an online subscription is $7 to read mag online.

fintail

Saw an absolutely mint brand new looking Porsche 914 in Macon GA not long ago, white with black lower trim, original correct hubcaps, amazing condition. Also saw a fuselage Imperial that looked like it might fall victim to the donk epidemic, a Celebrity 2-door, pretty blue and white 57 Bel Air 2 door post, a 68-69 Chevelle convertible, and a survivor condition BMW E28.

bhill2

As for the 283's, I don't see them too often at car shows. Most of what I see are 327's or big blocks. But, I guess that would stand to reason. Just as hardtops and convertibles are more likely to be preserved than a 4-door sedan, I'm sure the bigger, stronger engines usually see a better survival rate as well.

Yes, that must be it. The 283 was definitely the bread-and-butter engine in Chevies, at least through the mid-60s. I was in my early to mid teens during that period, and seeing even a 327 badge was worth comment. The very distinctive 396 or 409 badges causes paroxysms of adolescent ecstasy. Of course, seeing the '6' badge also elicited comments, but very different ones.

uplanderguy

BTW, my '66 Studebaker Daytona has a factory 283 'McKinnon engine built by a Canadian subsidiary of General Motors', as the brochure says. Some say it's different in some ways than a regular Chevy 283, but I doubt it. 283 cubic inches, two-barrel carb, 195 hp. Either way, it pulls my car around just fine.

fintail

The cheapest MB is usually the most expensive, and a lot of those hot rod 190s have been trashed. You won't be able to buy a beater and make it truly mint for 10K. They are just an acquired taste, and not close to M3 and probably will never be.

lemko

...white 1970s Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow travelling east on Front Street in Freeland, PA.

andre1969

moving under its own power, even! :shades: It had been sitting for about two weeks, but started on the third try...which for this beast is a miracle!

And, it only stalled once on the way to work! There was a flock of geese crossing the road ahead. I had slowed down for them to get across, and then continued on, but in the rearview mirror, noticed that one of them was just standing in the middle of the road, like it was confused. So I swung around, stopped at the curb near it, got out of the car and shooed it away. Then, when I got back in the car and put it into gear, it stalled immediately. No good deed goes unpunished, I guess. It started back up though, and behaved the rest of the way to work.

I brought my running shoes with me though, just in case...

fintail

Saw this parked in Coral Gables last week:



280SE 3.5 low grille cabrio - these have held their value very well.

Also saw this in a residential driveway in the same area:



Appears to be a real convertible.

stickguy

an early Fairmont 2 door couple (Futura I believe?) Don't see many of these driving around. Actually looked to be in decent shape, but certainly not restored.

andre1969

Wow, I'm sure that Benz must be a rare beast! What would something like that have cost brand-new, I wonder?

I remember reading that when those downsized Eldorado convertibles first hit the showroom, they were around $30,000, and in raw dollars, that was the most expensive Caddy ever. I think that was 1984.

I plugged that # into an inflation calculator though, and in 1957 that would've been around $8113. A mere drop in the bucket compared to something like the $13,074 Eldorado Brougham.

fintail

According to my old NADA guide, the 280SE cabrio had a MSRP of around 12K in 1970-71. Nice ones easily hit six figures today.

Come to think of it, I saw another Eldo convertible like that in Atlanta the other day, also in fair condition.

kyfdx

There was a 300 cabrio of a similar vintage (maybe older?) at the local car show...

The owner gave the impression that he might have way over $100K into it...

He was a Mercedes aficionado... but that was his only collector car. He said he had five Mercedes, total...

fintail

A W112 300SE cabrio would be slightly older (most will be ~1963-67), much more complex, probably rarer today, but not as valuable. Those cars had air suspension and an engine derived from the 300SL engine. I don't know about a 100K restoration, but if it was taken to the MB classic center or a big name shop, maybe,

Mr_Shiftright

A 300SE convert would be lucky to bring 1/3 the value of a #1 280SE low grille 3.5. The 3.5 convertible is a superb highway car for modern roads, and that only adds to its appeal. It could push $150K no problem.

kyfdx

I'll have to look it up... maybe older..

It was a big hoity-toity curated show... might be a catalog or something on it...