I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

texases

"so if you wanted blackwalls you had to special order? "

Or spend $5 to have the tires reversed...

uplanderguy

I'm sure blackwalls were standard, but probably rarely purchased. I can remember a '56 Montclair hardtop owned by the brother of my sister's boyfriend, in the later sixties. It was a solid rust or russet color, with chrome reverse wheels and a white interior that had custom upholstery. I thought it was a neat car, but I much prefer the same-year Ford now.

berri

Back then, wasn't just about everything optional? but you're right about how the dealers ordered them.

stever

Another Tracker today, very clean white one. Also some sort of Triumph convertible looking ride.

texases

stever said:

Another Tracker today, very clean white one. Also some sort of Triumph convertible looking ride.

Maybe a Stag?

uplanderguy

My grandfather hated whitewalls. He'd have the Chevy dealer turn them inside out before delivery. Hence, his '67 Impala Sport Coupe had full wheelcovers but blackwalls, as did my aunt's '65 Corvair Monza coupe he bought.

stever

texases said:

Maybe a Stag?

Good guess, nosing around net images. It was a bit more squarish than, say, a MG, thus my Triumph guess. It turned into convertible weather here pretty fast. Had to turn the heat on in the van last night.

sda

uplanderguy said:

My grandfather hated whitewalls. He'd have the Chevy dealer turn them inside out before delivery. Hence, his '67 Impala Sport Coupe had full wheelcovers but blackwalls, as did my aunt's '65 Corvair Monza coupe he bought.

My dad insisted on whitewalls, he even put them on mom's 87 Taurus LX in the early 90s. gasp. He taught me to keep the bright white by cleaning them with a brillo or SOS pad.

andre1969

I think '85-86 was the last timeframe that anybody in my immediate family bought a vehicle with whitewall tires. My maternal grandparents bought an '85 LeSabre and '85 Silverado, the paternal grandparents bought an '85 LTD, and then my Mom bought an '86 Monte Carlo.

The truck has raised white letter tires on it now (except for one mismatch blackwall). And I remember by the time Mom gave me the Monte Carlo in 1998, it had blackwalls on it.

Whitewalls are kind of a pain to find nowadays. The last set I bought was for my '79 5th Ave last year, and I had to find them on Amazon.com.

tjc78

My 04 Grand Marquis actually has whitewalls. Michelin Symmetry tires, the WW is about 1/4 thick. They are due to be replaced soon and I don't think there are any 16" WW tires available. With the geezer cloth top the WWs actually look good.

As for cleaning, yes a Brillo or SOS is the only way to go!

texases

I used (an earlier version of) this, worked OK on my RWL Goodyears:

uplanderguy

When I was a teenager, our '73 Nova coupe, then '74 Impala Sport Coupe, then '77 Impala coupe were what we'd call "detailed" today, by me. All had whitewalls. I hated dirty whitewalls and always used Brillo, but my friend always used Westley's, as above. We'd kiddingly call it "Blecccch White", with the liberty Westley's took with the spelling of 'bleach', LOL.

fintail

Lately I have seen a W124 taxi still in service (20+ years old), a couple of early full sunroof Renault Twingo, and a neglected looking turn of the century Fiat Multipla. I also saw a Ssangyong pickup.

stever

Always fun to see those Fiats.

stever

Is everyone ready for winter?

Video: How to drive on snow and ice -- then versus now (ADN)

stickguy

well, it's almost 70 out still at 11 PM. So, no.

I hate winter.

Mr_Shiftright

The article implies that ABS brakes and all wheel drive make drivers overconfident and I agree with that. Too many times I've heard people claim that all wheel drive makes it "easier to drive on ice". Yeah well good luck with that.

fintail

I've always thought whitewalls died off around 1985 for traditional domestics, maybe 1980 for Japanese cars, 1975 for Euros. I remember when I was a kid, the Tempo needed new tires, and I specifically told my mother to get blackwalls. I might have told her that on the Taurus, too. But maybe whitewalls are coming back?

- I took this pic today.

andre1969 said:

I think '85-86 was the last timeframe that anybody in my immediate family bought a vehicle with whitewall tires. My maternal grandparents bought an '85 LeSabre and '85 Silverado, the paternal grandparents bought an '85 LTD, and then my Mom bought an '86 Monte Carlo.

The truck has raised white letter tires on it now (except for one mismatch blackwall). And I remember by the time Mom gave me the Monte Carlo in 1998, it had blackwalls on it.

Whitewalls are kind of a pain to find nowadays. The last set I bought was for my '79 5th Ave last year, and I had to find them on Amazon.com.

fintail

I think a Vignale-bodied BMW 3200 counts as "obscure" - and a looker, too:



Speaking of winter, nothing here in west central Europe today, close to 70 the past couple days in Munich.

stever

Mr_Shiftright said:

The article implies that ABS brakes and all wheel drive make drivers overconfident and I agree with that. Too many times I've heard people claim that all wheel drive makes it "easier to drive on ice". Yeah well good luck with that.

The video makes me want to head up to Vermont in a month or two and drive some back roads. It was fun watching those old 50s cars plowing through the crud.

fintail

The weirdo (they were toned down later) Multiplas are definitely a guilty pleasure of mine. If I lived here and had the resources, I'd find a mint one and preserve it.

stever said:

Always fun to see those Fiats.

berri

I can't remember the name for the life of me, but I think Fiat had some variant of that as one of their last new models sold in the US?

Mr_Shiftright

Top Gear was just mad about them. I like 'em, too. Goofy looks, wide seats, room for people and stuff. Oh, did I say goofy looking?

sda

I spotted a clean Merkur Scorpio. White, with med gray/silver two tone. It was from out of state---can't remember when I last saw one of those. I always liked them in metallic maroon or dark blue.

sda

tjc78 said:

My 04 Grand Marquis actually has whitewalls. Michelin Symmetry tires, the WW is about 1/4 thick. They are due to be replaced soon and I don't think there are any 16" WW tires available. With the geezer cloth top the WWs actually look good.

As for cleaning, yes a Brillo or SOS is the only way to go!

Regardless of what other tire manufacturers were doing, I always preferred the look of the Michelin white wall. They always had a cleaner looking sidewall and the white stripe on the tire was always crisp, lean and seemed to stay cleaner longer. Perhaps my imagination, but I cleaned many a whitewall in our family's fleet.

tjc78

I don't want to start a tire debate, but overall I'm never happy unless my cars have Michelins. I've always had the best luck with them in all aspects.

uplanderguy

Last car I owned with whitewalls new, was our '93 Caprice Classic (yes, I know, conventional wisdom says "the whale"). It had the F41 suspension and larger tires; they were Goodyears--I want to say they were Eagle ST's but I'm not sure--but they had a pinstripe whitewall. I liked that much better than the wider stripe non-F41 Caprices got.

Come to think of it, that was also the last car I owned that had a full-size spare.

imidazol97

tjc78 said:

I don't want to start a tire debate, but overall I'm never happy unless my cars have Michelins. I've always had the best luck with them in all aspects.

X2. I have had Michelins since 1967 and they had inner tubes in them. People would stop me at
gas stations to tell me my tires needed air because of the bulge where they met the pavement.

fintail

I like Michelins too. The tire of choice for MBs 70s on up.

Another insanely warm fall day in Munich today - probably about 70F. I sure am glad I brought 2 jackets. When strolling down a street in a historic area of Europe, one expects to see something like this:



And about a block away, directly in front of the Asamkirche, was this:

stickguy

the Impala must be expensive to feed.

and the Seville is just pretending to be a MB. I'm sure the locals were all fooled.

uplanderguy

The '66 Caprice Custom Coupe is either a 396 or 427 with that front fender emblem.

I think that generation Seville is timeless. I notice the side molding and "Seville" front fender nameplate are missing. Probably an inexpensive repaint involved. Still, I haven't seen one in my parts that looks that nice in a long time.

fintail

It was a 396, I remember it. It was in nice shape. The Seville was a repaint, I looked at the car closely, it was apparently around the grille/radiator shell. It was decent looking, and received some attention from passersby.

berri

Nice to see the Detroit stuff in Germany. I know that in the UK and Scandinavia old US iron is pretty popular.

explorerx4

On the highway today, a 70 or so silver/black Super Bee.

Mr_Shiftright

Geez, do the Germans buff and wax their streets every morning?

Mr_Shiftright

Can you guess the engine?

fintail

Saw a Lada Niva today, so now Lexus and Lada are tied at one apiece. Can't say that in too many places.

texases

Mr_Shiftright said:

Can you guess the engine

1950-1960-ish Jaguar?

Mr_Shiftright

Somewhere in there---they made that engine for a long, long time. I hope that guy's health insurance is paid up. I wonder if his shoes melt?

Odd---I don't see a radiator.

explorerx4

It looks like there is some kind of intake cowling on the left side of the 'bike'.

andre1969

I went to Luray Caverns in Virginia yesterday, and saw, of all things, an '87-90 Caprice being used as a taxi! Looked like it was still in pretty good shape. It was the Brougham LS model, or what Lemko and I have referred to as the "New Yorker/5th Avenue Edition", because the roof treatment on the LS bears a strong resemblance to what Mopar did with the various R, M, and K-variants over the years.

sda

<Did Chevy ever use the Olds 307 in their cars? I don't think they did. It did cause a stink in 77 when it was discovered Olds was installing the Chevy 350 in some Delta 88s. Looks like clean one, and still with whitewalls!

andre1969

Actually, Chevy did start putting 307's in the Caprice wagons starting in 1987. In 1986, Caprice and Pontiac Parisienne Safari wagons used a Chevy 305, while Custom Cruisers and LeSabre/Electra Estate wagons used the Olds 307, but for '87 all the big wagons used the 307. Caprice coupes and sedans still used the Chevy 4.3/262 V-6 or 305 V-8. (or 350 in police cars)

I don't know why, exactly, they made the switch that year. The 307 had less peak hp, but did have a bit more torque, and peaked at a lower rpm, so maybe it was better-suited to moving the wagon than the 305? Or, it could've just been something as simple as the cars that normally used the 307 were phasing out but the engine capacity wasn't, so they started putting them in wagons to use them up? By 1987, I think the only other cars using the 307 were the Cadillac Brougham, Buick Regal, and Olds Cutlass Supreme. And the Regal and Cutlass Supreme were about to go FWD, and would use totally different engines.

I've heard people say that the 307 was a dog, and they preferred the 305, but I was happy with my Grandmother's '85 LeSabre, which had a 307. The transmission liked to upshift too quickly, probably for fuel economy concerns, but I discovered that if you shifted it manually, it seemed decent. And, once you got it up to about 85 mph (as high as the speedometer would go) it seemed like it would catch its second wind. I always wondered if that was because at that speed, it was too fast to downshift, and was hitting its peak torque range in top gear?

uplanderguy

I seem to remember all the wagons being built in the same plant in Kansas. I'm going by memory so I could be wrong. The sedans were built elsewhere. That could have something to do with the Caprice wagons going to the 307.

I like the Brougham, but I never liked that roofline. You could still get it with a 'normal' vinyl top.

Too bad they never made a Brougham coupe!

Again, it's what you were used to, but I still like the more rounded look, large wheel openings, etc., of the Chevy versus the Ford large cars of the same period.

berri

Now that's kind of interesting, or maybe intriguing is a better term; Pontiac ditches their 301 for a Chevy 305, who then turns around and moves its product to a 307...and it all started with those 350 Chevymobiles years before

lemko

If you had to pick one?

berri

I like those 60's MB's. They looked so much more unique and stood out back then. But then, 61 brought out some nice, if back to more conservative, Detroit iron too (Well, Mopar was a bit of a mixed bag).

stickguy

probably the coupe. The 300 would probably eat you up.

bhill2

berri said:

I like those 60's MB's. They looked so much more unique and stood out back then. But then, 61 brought out some nice, if back to more conservative, Detroit iron too (Well, Mopar was a bit of a mixed bag).

The 61 Chrysler did not actively induce nausea. That is the only mixture in the 61 Mopar bag (at least among the full-sized models).

andre1969

berri said:

Now that's kind of interesting, or maybe intriguing is a better term; Pontiac ditches their 301 for a Chevy 305, who then turns around and moves its product to a 307...and it all started with those 350 Chevymobiles years before

Pontiac had been getting their engines swapped out for awhile. I read somewhere that the main reason the '74 GTO was the end of the line was that GM made a decision to start using Buick 350s instead of Pontiac 350s in the Ventura, and the Buick 350 wasn't much of a performance engine by then.

Pontiac engines also didn't take too well to emissions controls and tended to run "dirtier" than other engines, so they ultimately got banned in California. That was one contributing factor to that whole 350-swapping fiasco in '77, although the main culprit there was that the Cutlass Supreme ended up selling a lot better than Olds had predicted, and it got first preference for the Olds 350.

Oddly though, for 1975, the Pontiac 400 was an option in California LeSabres and Delta 88s.

For 1977, the downsized Catalina/Bonneville offered the 231, 301, Pontiac 350, and 400. California models, however, dropped the 301 with no direct replacement, and the 350/400 were swapped with Olds 350/403s. I think California versions of the LeMans/Grand Prix also dropped the 301 as a choice and went with Olds 350/403 engines.

For 1978, I think the Pontiac 350 was dropped entirely. The Catalina/Bonneville used a Buick 350 in its place, or an Olds 350 in California. When the midsized cars downsized for '78, they only offered a 301 or 305 as the biggest engine. You could still get a 350 in a Firebird, but according to the EPA website, it was a Cbevy engine.

In 1980, the engine swapping really went buffet. 49 state cars used a Buick 231 and Pontiac 265/301, while wagons used a 301 or a Buick 350. California cars used a Buick 231, Chevy 305, or Olds 350, while wagons used an Olds 350. Oh, and the Diesel 350 was offered across the board.

GM started getting heavy into computer controls for 1981, and apparently that cleaned them up enough for California use. That year the Catalina/Bonneville lineup was the same for CA and the rest of the country...Buick 231, Pontiac 265, Olds 307, or Diesel 350. Wagons made the 307 standard. By 1981 the 301 was only used in the LeMans wagon and the Firebird/Trans Am, but it was "clean" enough that they let it back into California.

I wonder what would have happened if GM had gone to corporate engines earlier on, as Ford and Mopar did? It might have saved a lot of money and aggravation in the long run. But on the flip side, I think one reason that Imperial never really took off as a separate division is that it used the same engine as a Chrysler New Yorker. However, once it got to the point Ford was using corporate engines, it didn't seem to hurt Lincoln. With GM though, it seemed like a lot of a car's identity was tied up in the engine.