I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

hpmctorque

fintail said:

Dominos Brooklyn Style is good. Papa Murphys thin crust is also good.

Shameful admission - I love hitting up a Pizza Hut at least a couple times when I am in Germany. It's really different here. It tastes good, the prices are reasonable, and it is insanely popular - there will often be no open tables, often people waiting to be seated, and reservations are recommended. At a Pizza Hut. It's like a parallel universe.

For obscure cars? Not many oldies on the road here compared to the PNW, as inspection standards cull out the herd. Most old (say pre-1990) cars are MB, with a BMW here and there. Very little else, unless it is a vintage car with historic plates. I did see a Smart roadster, those seem kind of cool.

Do you know whether they ship the older cars in decent condition out of Germany, where the inspections are not as strict, or scrap them?

fintail

I think a lot of them get shipped out before they are too old, but still fail to meet inspection, yeah. That creates an gap in time when there are few survivors - which isn't too unlike home I guess. It can be harder to find a 1986 car than a 1966 car.

I think rust is an issue in Germany as well, which hurts survival once a car hits a certain age.

hpmctorque said:

Do you know whether they ship the older cars in decent condition out of Germany, where the inspections are not as strict, or scrap them?

hpmctorque

fintail said:

This is in the lobby of the hotel where I am staying right now:



Oddest thing I saw today was the remains of an old Renault 5 that was long past being on the road.

Could that car in the hotel lobby been a '30s Fiat Balilla?

hpmctorque

uplanderguy said:

That does look like a '71 Impala; I'd never made that connection before!

I'm with you--I don't like the '70 Toronado or the '70 Riviera. I haven't looked for a pic online, but I can remember some (maybe all) '70 Rivs had a tiny little rear fender skirt that was barely one. Of course, when off the car, it looked all the worse.

A friend who works at a car lot tells me they have a clean '74 Toronado for sale. I know the basic look, but I had to look online to remember the details. Has a bit of a coffin-nose front look I think. I know nobody wants a '74 car because of the front and rear bumpers, but that's still a little interesting to me.

In addition to the bumpers, the emission controls hit their low point in '74, the year before catalytic converters were installed. Most '74s ran really badly, and fuel economy was terrible.

fintail

Early postwar Topolino.

The hotel I stayed at was in the old Fiat factory at Lingotto, now converted to hotel/shopping center/office space use, pretty cool repurposing.

hpmctorque said:

Could that car in the hotel lobby been a '30s Fiat Balilla?

hpmctorque

fintail said:

Early postwar Topolino.

The hotel I stayed at was in the old Fiat factory at Lingotto, now converted to hotel/shopping center/office space use, pretty cool repurposing.

hpmctorque said:

Could that car in the hotel lobby been a '30s Fiat Balilla?

Interesting! Didn't know Fiat ever made a 4-door version of the Topolino. Thanks.

fintail

The pictured car is a 2 door. I don't believe there was a 4 door, but there was a related 2 door wagon called a Giardiniera.

hpmctorque said:

Interesting! Didn't know Fiat ever made a 4-door version of the Topolino. Thanks.

uplanderguy

In addition to the bumpers, the emission controls hit their low point in '74, the year before catalytic converters were installed. Most '74s ran really badly, and fuel economy was terrible.

We had a '73 Nova six, and a '74 Impala Sport Coupe, 350 2-barrel. The '74's driveability was eons better than the six, but that's probably the difference between the two engines, rather than '74 versus '73. Dad bought the '74 when '75's were already starting to trickle into the dealership, but he didn't want to have to put unleaded gas in.

andre1969

I've heard that 1973 was also not a very good year, when it came to emissions controls, although 1974 was definitely worse. I don't think 1972 was a bad year at all, other than people moaning about the gross vs net thing...even if the engine was unchanged, people just thought they were weaker because of the lower hp rating. Some cars did have their compression ratios cut for 1972 though, so there were some real losses along with the "paper" losses. It was mostly the high-output engines that got cut though, I think. So your typical 6-cyl or low-suds smallblock V-8 was most likely unscathed. It's just that saying your 350 Impala had 165 hp didn't sound as cool as 250, or whatever.

My great-uncle had a '74 Impala with a 400, and when it was about 10 years old, he gave it to his neighbor. The body was all rusted out, but the engine was still good. Neighbor pulled the engine out, and used it in some kind of race car. AFAIK, the Chevy 400 was mostly a station-wagon type motor, and never really a performance engine. But I've heard that some racers liked to use them to build them up. I think it's something about the Siamesed cylinder bores making the block stronger?

uplanderguy

It seems that I never saw all that many Chevy 400's in that era, other than it was the standard Caprice engine from '71 to '74 if I remember correctly (and I'm pretty certain of this). My friend has a '74 Avanti II with a Chevy 400 from the factory. When the 400 came out in '70, it was a two-barrel engine with 265 gross horsepower. Even as a kid, I remember thinking "Why?"...LOL.

texases

" I think it's something about the Siamesed cylinder bores making the block stronger? "

That'd be news to me, I thought the 400 was the most displacement they could squeeze out of the small block, with the compromises limiting output.

andre1969

texases said:

" I think it's something about the Siamesed cylinder bores making the block stronger? "

That'd be news to me, I thought the 400 was the most displacement they could squeeze out of the small block, with the compromises limiting output.

That's what confused me, too. I'd always heard a 400 block was weak because of the large bore making the cylinder walls thin. And having the cylinder bores siamesed, you had issues with coolant flow. So I dunno what about it would be good for using as a basis for a race car engine?

IIRC, throughout its entire run, the 400 smallblock only put out something like 150-180 hp net. I don't think there was ever a high-output version, like there was with the 350. And I don't think it was much, if any quicker off the line than a 350...for instance in 1972, the Impala 350 had 165 hp, and I think the 400 had 170. I think the advantage came into play when you were hauling a full load of passengers, or towing a trailer. Of course, if you needed to do anything really heavy duty, you got the 402 or 454.

uplanderguy

You did get the "400" emblem on the side, which you didn't get with the 350 on a full-size Chevy from '71-74.

andre1969

The 400 might have been seen as a better choice in later years, once the engines really started getting strangled down. For instance, while the 350 had 165 hp in '72 and the 400 had 170, for 1973 I think they got choked down to 145 and 150, respectively. But, the extra torque of the 400 was probably pretty nice.

Incidentally, I remember Consumer Reports testing a '72 Impala 4-door with the 165 350, and 0-60 was 12 seconds. They tested a '73 Malibu with the 145 hp 350, and 0-60 was 13 seconds. Kinda sad to think that a smaller, lighter midsized car with the same basic engine was actually slower than a full-sized car, but what a difference a year can make!

I wonder if they changed standard axle ratios between 1972-73? I know at one point a 2.73:1 was the most common, but then a 2.56:1 became standard. For '76, they were downgraded to a 2.41:1

stevedebi

fintail said:

On the street today, saw a later run 2 tone 2CV, a few Peugeot 205s in decent enough shape, a nice early W126, Citroen Visa 4 door, Renault Avantime, and this thing which was apparently teleported from 1987:

At first I thought that was a Merkur, aka Sierra, but that rear isn't right. What is this?

ab348

uplanderguy said:

In addition to the bumpers, the emission controls hit their low point in '74, the year before catalytic converters were installed. Most '74s ran really badly, and fuel economy was terrible.

We had a '73 Nova six, and a '74 Impala Sport Coupe, 350 2-barrel. The '74's driveability was eons better than the six, but that's probably the difference between the two engines, rather than '74 versus '73. Dad bought the '74 when '75's were already starting to trickle into the dealership, but he didn't want to have to put unleaded gas in.

We had a '74 Impala with the base 350. It had terrible driveability. They leaned out the carb to the max. When you started it from cold, it ran OK while the choke was still operating. But once the choke pulled off, when you would push the accelerator pedal from a stop it would hesitate and stumble and then lurch forward.

It was a pretty awful car, really. Hardly any options, dark red metallic with the black and white cloth herringbone upholstery they used. Bench seat without a center armrest up front. Massive car too, hard to park or drive on a 2-lane. We had a '79 Impala later on that was much nicer to drive.

kyfdx

stevedebi said:

fintail said:

On the street today, saw a later run 2 tone 2CV, a few Peugeot 205s in decent enough shape, a nice early W126, Citroen Visa 4 door, Renault Avantime, and this thing which was apparently teleported from 1987:

At first I thought that was a Merkur, aka Sierra, but that rear isn't right. What is this?

It's the Merkur Scorpio, I think... next size up...

texases

I think it's the European Ford, not a Merkur. It's a 4 door Sierra, I think.

kyfdx

texases said:

I think it's the European Ford, not a Merkur. It's a 4 door Sierra, I think.

I still think it's one size up from the Sierra.. Don't know what they called it, though.

(I'm often wrong, though)

omarman

texases said:

I think it's the European Ford, not a Merkur. It's a 4 door Sierra, I think.

Definitely a 1987ish Sierra from Ford of Europe. Maybe a 5 door HB? I don't think it's the upscale Sapphire which had a grill.

stevedebi

ab348 said:

uplanderguy said:

In addition to the bumpers, the emission controls hit their low point in '74, the year before catalytic converters were installed. Most '74s ran really badly, and fuel economy was terrible.

We had a '73 Nova six, and a '74 Impala Sport Coupe, 350 2-barrel. The '74's driveability was eons better than the six, but that's probably the difference between the two engines, rather than '74 versus '73. Dad bought the '74 when '75's were already starting to trickle into the dealership, but he didn't want to have to put unleaded gas in.

We had a '74 Impala with the base 350. It had terrible driveability. They leaned out the carb to the max. When you started it from cold, it ran OK while the choke was still operating. But once the choke pulled off, when you would push the accelerator pedal from a stop it would hesitate and stumble and then lurch forward.

It was a pretty awful car, really. Hardly any options, dark red metallic with the black and white cloth herringbone upholstery they used. Bench seat without a center armrest up front. Massive car too, hard to park or drive on a 2-lane. We had a '79 Impala later on that was much nicer to drive.

My father owned a 1973. It ran fine. 350 I think. We were in Germany at that time, you can imagine the fun we had driving that thing around! It was very comfortable as I recall.

stevedebi

omarman said:

texases said:

I think it's the European Ford, not a Merkur. It's a 4 door Sierra, I think.

Definitely a 1987ish Sierra from Ford of Europe. Maybe a 5 door HB? I don't think it's the upscale Sapphire which had a grill.

Ah. I left Europe in late 1984. I think they had only released the initial Sierra, which had a higher (looking) rear end.

fintail

Yep, it's a Sierra (Merkur sedan was a Scorpio). The white car is from the first facelift in 1987, and it was pretty immaculate. I think of it as a German Tempo (with cooler mechanicals, of course). In fact, French toy car maker Majorette had a Matchbox-sized casting of the Sierra, and they actually marketed it in the US as a Tempo.

Drove all over Switzerland, long day. Spotted a turn of the century Seville, late 00s Sebring, Chevy conversion van - raining all day so nothing cool and old was out.

stevedebi said:

At first I thought that was a Merkur, aka Sierra, but that rear isn't right. What is this?

robr2

So what are you driving as a rental fin?

fintail

A tank/bus/small house:



I've had fun parking it.

robr2 said:

So what are you driving as a rental fin?

stickguy

Got you all beat.

An Isuzu oasis.

robr2

I don't think that isn't any bigger than your E. No backup camera?

ab348

fintail said:

A tank/bus/small house:



I've had fun parking it.

Tonight I pulled into a parking lot and parked in the middle of a row of empty spaces. When I returned it had filled up and an Infiniti QX60 was close to my driver's side. That thing was like a big black battleship. It looked just massive next to my ATS, towering over me. Can't be fun to drive that in an old city like Halifax.

fintail

It feels bigger, and is definitely heavier. It handles well for something that weighs as much as a minor planet, but I get the tipsy feeling sometimes - maybe I am overdoing it.

It has a backup camera and the radar-style parking aid, but no surround view like in my E.

robr2 said:

I don't think that isn't any bigger than your E. No backup camera?

fintail

And that's just the middle model - like a gussied up Pathfinder.

I've had to fold in my mirrors to make the gap more tenable, tons of fun. The 85 point turns in parking garages are cool too.

ab348 said:

Tonight I pulled into a parking lot and parked in the middle of a row of empty spaces. When I returned it had filled up and an Infiniti QX60 was close to my driver's side. That thing was like a big black battleship. It looked just massive next to my ATS, towering over me. Can't be fun to drive that in an old city like Halifax.

fintail

Today on the Autobahn spotted an old C3 Audi 200, those have to be getting rare. It was in nice condition, older driver. Also saw an old Mini zipping on the Autobahn, a scooter being a pylon on the Autobahn, a Sebring convertible, a Neon (both were exported once), and not rare, a MB A-class with Russian plates.

Mr_Shiftright

Well it's a car for someone who wants a crossover--station wagon---sports sedan--luxury car--economy car.....you know, that kind of typical buyer.

fintail said:

And that's just the middle model - like a gussied up Pathfinder.

I've had to fold in my mirrors to make the gap more tenable, tons of fun. The 85 point turns in parking garages are cool too.

ab348 said:

Tonight I pulled into a parking lot and parked in the middle of a row of empty spaces. When I returned it had filled up and an Infiniti QX60 was close to my driver's side. That thing was like a big black battleship. It looked just massive next to my ATS, towering over me. Can't be fun to drive that in an old city like Halifax.

explorerx4

I light green 60 chevy 2 door post. Paint faded, but didn't see any rust.

fintail

This is an odd one that I saw at the MB Customer Center, where people take delivery of cars, and you can go on factory tours:



This is a W108 250SE. Not stupendously rare, but this exact car was impressive. It was either almost perfectly restored, or was a mint original (I neglected to look at the odometer). It was amazing, as all of the weatherstripping and metal surfaces were better than I have ever seen. I suppose the factory could devote the resources, but otherwise, people will usually only put effort into a V8 car. This is the car that replaced the W111 220SE fintail (my car) in August 1965.

Mr_Shiftright

Quite a few 108s had 4-speed floor shifts. Sounds great but in reality they were very imprecise gear levers. You never knew quite which gear you were in. Nice cruising car.

fintail

The oar in a barrel, I think it is called. I think they are fine with automatics, too.

I think 1965 was the year MB sedans went from 4 on the tree to 4 on the floor.

Mr_Shiftright

Finding a gear was damn near impossible. What was MB thinking?

fintail

Maybe a tacit way to get people to opt for the automatic (which can have harsh shifts but is usually quite durable)?

Mr_Shiftright

Spotted a TR7, apparently running under its own power (no invisible tow lines were noted, no large magnets in the area, and car was not exiting the bottom of a long hill). He even had to top down, god bless 'im.

fintail

My 1981 Consumer Guide has a fun review of their shoddily built TR8 test car. It summarizes with something like: "There will always be an England, but if our car is any indication, there might not always be a British motor industry".

35 years later, well, they still build them there I guess.

stickguy

Some years back (20?) I was poking around, looking at toys. And found a local private sale of a TR7 spider edition (only made in 1980 I believe) so somewhere near 15 YO at the time. I actually really liked it. Was in surprisingly good condition (body/interior really well maintained). And sharp in the black with fancy wheels and unique trim. Convertible of course.

I seem to recall it ran just fine on a short test drive. I did not end up buying it for some reason, so no idea what hidden surprises were lurking under the shiny exterior! Or how many head gaskets it had stuffed in there.

Mr_Shiftright

Well you know a car is in trouble when the workshop manual recommends doubling the head gasket.

explorerx4

One of my kids forwarded this from one of their friends who saw it the next town over.

Mr_Shiftright

Well, it's trippy.....

fintail

Either dirty offshore money buying its way in, or the beloved brave warriors of the FIRE sector got their Christmas bonuses early this year (same difference),

Hell of a sighting though, still haven't seen one on the road.

fintail

Saw an immaculate bone stock (becoming rare) E30 cabrio and a clean Mk II Jetta in the same parking lot.

fintail

Stopped by Park Place for a quick browse - they have an 07 CLS63 that appears to be a P3 car - quite rare, and they don't mention it in the ad because they likely don't know.

In the showroom, highlights to me (they always have something interesting) were a 5-speed 250SL and a 959 (!). Also a 1997 911 Carrera Turbo S listed at 795K. No kidding. Makes the 60K 250SL look virtually free,

Michaell

fintail said:

Stopped by Park Place for a quick browse - they have an 07 CLS63 that appears to be a P3 car - quite rare, and they don't mention it in the ad because they likely don't know. In the showroom, highlights to me (they always have something interesting) were a 5-speed 250SL and a 959 (!). Also a 1997 911 Carrera Turbo S listed at 795K. No kidding. Makes the 60K 250SL look virtually free,

Could that be Bill Gates' 959?

texases

Fin, what's a "P3 car"?

fintail

I think his was/is silver, this one was red. Now that they are all over 25 years old and past the dopey import rules, they are easy to bring in - just not easy to afford.

Michaell said:

Could that be Bill Gates' 959?