I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

bhill2

Mr_Shiftright said:

They are sturdy cars, well-built, gobs of low end torque. You could tear a house down with one of those straight-8s. Many came with 3-speed column shift and overdrive (cable activated). You could even order AC, although I suspect it's quite rare.

Great road car. At the end of the day, you might have to scrap off a Honda or two stuck under the wheel wells, but other than that, I bet you could drive for miles and miles in comfort.

That brings up a question that I had about this car. I can't understand why someone buying a Packard with a stick wouldn't get overdrive. It seems like an obvious choice on a cruiser. OD isn't mentioned in the ad. Can anyone tell from the interior photos whether it has it?

texases

bhill2 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

They are sturdy cars, well-built, gobs of low end torque. You could tear a house down with one of those straight-8s. Many came with 3-speed column shift and overdrive (cable activated). You could even order AC, although I suspect it's quite rare.

Great road car. At the end of the day, you might have to scrap off a Honda or two stuck under the wheel wells, but other than that, I bet you could drive for miles and miles in comfort.

That brings up a question that I had about this car. I can't understand why someone buying a Packard with a stick wouldn't get overdrive. It seems like an obvious choice on a cruiser. OD isn't mentioned in the ad. Can anyone tell from the interior photos whether it has it?

Are you referring to the custom Packard? It has "700 R-4 Automatic Overdrive Transmission,"

bhill2

texases said:

bhill2 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

They are sturdy cars, well-built, gobs of low end torque. You could tear a house down with one of those straight-8s. Many came with 3-speed column shift and overdrive (cable activated). You could even order AC, although I suspect it's quite rare.

Great road car. At the end of the day, you might have to scrap off a Honda or two stuck under the wheel wells, but other than that, I bet you could drive for miles and miles in comfort.

That brings up a question that I had about this car. I can't understand why someone buying a Packard with a stick wouldn't get overdrive. It seems like an obvious choice on a cruiser. OD isn't mentioned in the ad. Can anyone tell from the interior photos whether it has it?

Are you referring to the custom Packard? It has "700 R-4 Automatic Overdrive Transmission,"

I was referring to Shifty's statement about the stock Packard of the period (c. 1948). I assume you could get the car without OD, but why would you? The car is built to make long distance travel comfortable and serene, and the additional cost was likely small relative to the price of the car.

texases

Those were days before the interstate system, so not as much 'long distance travel' was done. And those three speeds wouldn't be revving real high in 3rd, anyway.

iluvmysephia1

Well, being that I wasn't actually there around massive buffalo time, how would I really know that the Indians only just took what they needed? Now Uncle Ted, he wouldn't steer us all wrong, would he?

The 1968 Datsun 411 Bluebird? Selling for $12,900. Or, I can wait about a week or so and head to OKC with cash, not to see a Thunder game, but....to bid on the little orange one. Before he swims away from me forever.

Mr_Shiftright

bhill2 said:

texases said:

bhill2 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

They are sturdy cars, well-built, gobs of low end torque. You could tear a house down with one of those straight-8s. Many came with 3-speed column shift and overdrive (cable activated). You could even order AC, although I suspect it's quite rare.

Great road car. At the end of the day, you might have to scrap off a Honda or two stuck under the wheel wells, but other than that, I bet you could drive for miles and miles in comfort.

That brings up a question that I had about this car. I can't understand why someone buying a Packard with a stick wouldn't get overdrive. It seems like an obvious choice on a cruiser. OD isn't mentioned in the ad. Can anyone tell from the interior photos whether it has it?

Are you referring to the custom Packard? It has "700 R-4 Automatic Overdrive Transmission,"

I was referring to Shifty's statement about the stock Packard of the period (c. 1948). I assume you could get the car without OD, but why would you? The car is built to make long distance travel comfortable and serene, and the additional cost was likely small relative to the price of the car.

For the Overdrive, there would be an amber-colored pull knob under the dash, either just to the right or just to the left of the steering column.

stevedebi

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

Honda was still doing AC as a dealer installed option into the 80s.

Try early 90's ... I leased a '93 Accord DX and I had my choice of a stereo or A/C. Silly me, I chose the stereo.

My mother in law had an 87 Corolla FX (not the 16 valve, the basic one). Really no options. They could afford either power steering or A/C. She took A/C. I had that car until a couple of years ago as a daily driver. Almost impossible to park. I sold it for a few hundred - neither of my kids was interested in driving that! Good car other than that, although it had zero pickup.

fintail

AC is a fun discussion, I think we've had it here before. Back in the day, it was probably a regional thing - not as common in Seattle as LA, etc. Thinking back at cars in my family, I suspect my grandpa's 65 Chrysler or the fuselage model that followed it did not have AC, but subsequent cars did. My dad's Horizon didn't have it, but the S-10 Blazer and all following cars did. I think all of my mom's cars had it, even the Tempo - I remember the Ciera had especially strong AC, or at least it felt that way when I was 10. An on to the old cars - 60 Ford no AC, 66 Ford no AC, 68 Ford no AC, fintail no AC, my dad also had a couple of other old cars in the 00s - Datsun 610 no AC, I think the 85 F150 didn't have AC, but the early 90s Dodge might have had AC.

uplanderguy

In NWPA, in the small town I grew up in, my parents did not have an air-conditioned car until their new 1984 Monte Carlo. My '82 Monte Carlo, the dealer's demo, was the first I had with A/C. My first brand-new car, an '81 Monte Carlo V8 with positraction, had intermittent wipers but no A/C--by my choice! LOL

It was about '76 or so, before our dealer's Caprice Classics in inventory regularly had A/C. Monte Carlos were probably about 50/50.

My '63 Studebaker Lark was built with factory A/C, and my '64 and '66 Studes had Stude's factory A/C retrofitted (weren't built with that option). None of the three of them had A/C that worked!

Mr_Shiftright

Most Mercedes and BMWs built in the 1970s and 80s came with non-working AC, or..."shortly not going to work AC". If the U.S. auto industry had two decisive, no-argument trump cards over the imports in that time frame, it was their automatic transmissions and their AC systems.

xwesx

Mr_Shiftright said:

Most Mercedes and BMWs built in the 1970s and 80s came with non-working AC, or..."shortly not going to work AC". If the U.S. auto industry had two decisive, no-argument trump cards over the imports in that time frame, it was their automatic transmissions and their AC systems.

Hah! Yeah, I remember that the A/C in our 1985 Camry seemed like such a luxury, but you had to be kinda careful about when/where you used it. On a hot day in eastern Oregon, it was a bad idea to go through a (busy) drive-through with the air conditioning on!

roadburner

Mr_Shiftright said:

Most Mercedes and BMWs built in the 1970s and 80s came with non-working AC, or..."shortly not going to work AC". If the U.S. auto industry had two decisive, no-argument trump cards over the imports in that time frame, it was their automatic transmissions and their AC systems.

BMW had A/C figured out by the late '80s- at least on the E28, E24, and E32. The A/C system in my 1995 3er works great and in over 20 years has never been touched.

fintail

My W126 had good AC. MB didn't even get factory air until the W116 and R107 cars, I think (and the W100 600 cars I guess).

Mr_Shiftright

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Most Mercedes and BMWs built in the 1970s and 80s came with non-working AC, or..."shortly not going to work AC". If the U.S. auto industry had two decisive, no-argument trump cards over the imports in that time frame, it was their automatic transmissions and their AC systems.

BMW had A/C figured out by the late '80s- at least on the E28, E24, and E32. The A/C system in my 1995 3er works great and in over 20 years has never been touched.

Yes, late 80s seems to be the turning point for German AC. Not sure why they finally "got it" just then--probably all the complaints caught up with them. The HVAC control systems remained cranky up through the mid 1990s though.

berri

In the old days Chrysler was known for its Air Temp A/C, but I always thought GM worked the best and Ford the worst back then.

stickguy

I always heard that back in the day, GM had compressors about the size of the one sitting outside my house, that could keep sides of beef frozen.

berri

I'm thinking car A/C started getting common in the Chicago area sometime in the 70's, but it was probably another decade before it got to be really reliable.

When I was living in Orlando in the mid 80's, the neighborhood I lived in mostly had Chrysler Air Temp central A/C in the houses. Until then, I didn't even know they were in that market segment. Honestly though, I thought it was more effective and more reliable in their cars. Maybe I should have ran my house A/C through my Oldsmobile's compressor Stick

bhill2

stickguy said:

I always heard that back in the day, GM had compressors about the size of the one sitting outside my house, that could keep sides of beef frozen.

You ain't kidding, Stick. One summer back in the day my family travelled from our home near Seattle (in a non-AC car) to the Sacramento area to visit my aunt and uncle. They were enjoying balmy 105 or so degree days, so when I had errand to run my uncle tossed me the keys to their '67 Cutlass. I got in, started the engine, and slammed the lever to max A/C. It was about 1/4 mile before I was ready to pick up the slabs of beef. 

jpp75

xwesx said:

Hah! Yeah, I remember that the A/C in our 1985 Camry seemed like such a luxury, but you had to be kinda careful about when/where you used it. On a hot day in eastern Oregon, it was a bad idea to go through a (busy) drive-through with the air conditioning on!

Hah, back in the days when you didn't pull out in front of someone with the air conditioning on.

andre1969

My guess is that a/c became a common thing here in the DC area sometime in the mid/late 60's? Both of my Darts, a '68 270 and '69 GT, had air conditioning. My '67 Catalina convertible has air conditioning, as well, and so did my '67 Newport.

Now, my Mom's first new car was a '66 Catalina convertible, that she bought when she was a senior in high school. It didn't have a/c, but her attitude was "why would it have air conditioning? It was a convertible!" At that time, Grandmom and Granddad had a full-sized Chevy wagon, either a '64 or '65 (nobody in the family who's still alive can remember at this point which year exactly, and I can't find any pictures), and it probably didn't have a/c. Granddad also had a '65 or so GMC pickup, but it was strictly a work truck. So, my Mom probably hadn't been "spoiled" by a/c yet, and didn't see the need for it. Plus, a high school kid buying a new car was probably stretching it enough, let along springing for a/c.

My '57 DeSoto doesn't have a/c, but back then, it was still a ~$500 option. The base price of my car was around $3085, but as equipped was more like $3800. A/c would have put it close to a base level Cadillac in price. I know someone who has a '61 DeSoto, and it's just about fully-equipped, with a/c, power windows and a few other odds and ends, enough that its ~$3167 base price got pushed close to $5,000!

By the late 60's, I think a/c was down to around $350.

imidazol97

stickguy said:

I always heard that back in the day, GM had compressors about the size of the one sitting outside my house, that could keep sides of beef frozen.

I was told that the compressor on the full-sized GM cars could cool 3 average size suburban houses.

imidazol97

Here are a couple of older cars that looked perfect, although may not be considered classics yet.

jpp75

imidazol97 said:

Here are a couple of older cars that looked perfect, although may not be considered classics yet.

That's a nice Electra, I always liked how the hood on those opened from the bottom of the windshield.

uplanderguy

On Chevys, into the '70's, I'm pretty sure I remember the basic A/C ("Four Season") was in the upper $300-range, and "Comfortron", the automatic A/C, was even more.

uplanderguy

Dark green '76 Cosworth Vega going to auction, is in Hemmings' blog today.

I don't care what anyone says--I would love this car.

I remember riding in the one our dealer got in--a '75, serial no 372. Fast-forward twenty years, and a friend bought that very car at a Chevy dealer fifteen miles away. It had only 13K miles in that time. The original owner was a little old lady who worked at the college--seriously. I remember seeing her in it. She traded in a six-cylinder '72 Nova for it. My friend (well, we don't keep in touch anymore) I believe still has the car.

uplanderguy

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2016/02/17/stuck-in-the-70s-time-machine-1976-cosworth-vega-heads-to-auction/

stickguy

Dark green. Nice. I thought they were all black. At least, that is usually what you see.

stickguy

That one is a real time machine too

uplanderguy

All the '75's were black and gold, actually pre-dating the "Smokey" Trans-Ams.

The Cosworth came in any regular Vega color for '76.

berri

Ima - I like that Electra. Still looks sharp today!

Mr_Shiftright

Cosworth Vegas have always had a bit of a following among the faithful few. It's not a fast car but it is an interesting curiosity in automotive history. Every major Chevy collector should have one.

stickguy

Seems like a good car for smart upgrades to wake up the engine.

Though I would also like a kamback with a crate V8 in it!

uplanderguy

Growing up only maybe 40 miles from where all Vegas were built, and now living 40 miles on the other side of the Lordstown plant--and being all of twelve when they were introduced--I've always had a soft spot for Vegas. My grandparents bought the very first one our hometown dealer got in too--but it was a strippo two-door sedan (ugh). It's hard to think of a car in that period that was introduced to more promise and let down so many people. It's easy to forget that the cars were the darling of the car magazines, for several years into production.

I've seen '76 Cosworths in black, white, firethorn, dark metallic blue, and a coffee-brown color, but I'd never seen one in this dark green before. I think it's particularly handsome.

I like the square taillights of the '75 better, though. For some reason, I always hated taillights with yellow lenses.

Mr_Shiftright

stickguy said:

Seems like a good car for smart upgrades to wake up the engine.

Though I would also like a kamback with a crate V8 in it!

How 'about a Vega wagon with a 383 stroker and 5-speed transmission?

stickguy

Sold.

ab348

The comments on the Hemmings blog along those lines are interesting - one says that the best choice for a V-8 conversion would be an AMC 401 because it is physically smaller and lighter than a SBC. Never heard that before.

Mr_Shiftright

You can build up a 401 to pretty impressive HP. Current V8 swaps for Vegas mostly use the LS motor, and contemporary builders pay much more attention to chassis tuning than in the old days of SB Chevys-into-Vegas. Those older builds were fine as long as you didn't dare move the steering wheel off straight-line.

andre1969

Back in the 70's, one of my neighbors used to race Vegas. He'd build a 350 and put it under the hood. In 1984, he also bought my great-uncle's rusty '74 Impala, because he wanted its 400 V-8 for a race car.

As for the AMC V-8's, the only weight reference I could find was 580 lb for "early V-8's" and 540 for "late V-8's". For comparison, the most common number I've seen thrown around for the old Chevy smallblock was 575 lb. The Chevy smallblock was revolutionary for its low reciprocating mass and compact size, but it wasn't exactly a shrinking violet when it came to overall weight.

I would think the Ford smallblock would be a good conversion...compact size overall, and lighter weight than the Chevy smallblock. Wouldn't the Ford smallblock be a better revver too, since it had a shorter stroke than the Chevy?

tjc78

Didn't Ford and GM use the same Frididaire compressors in the 70s?  They look pretty similar and I know that my 79 Continental was nothing short of the best AC I've ever experienced in a car (other than similar vintage GMs) 

Heck any R12 system will generally blow away the junk AC we have today.  The big difference today is that with the extra electric fans you don't have to worry about overheating and generally in traffic performance stays better than in the old days. 

As For cars with AC I was lucky as a kid as everything except for the stripper Escort my mom had was equipped with AC.  I know that when my mom got the 85 Dodge Charger we were in heaven with the AC although it needed to fixed quite often.  Both sets of Grandparents had luxo barges (Town Cars, Rivieras, and IIRC a Park Avenue and they were all equipped with AC). 

fintail

I saw the twin to my old E55 today, rare color (not the same car). Also a W123 wagon. Saw a decent enough 80s Z28 yesterday.

sda

I saw a late 90's Jaguar XJ sedan. It was fairly clean and appeared to be a daily driver. What caught my attention was the license plate, it read: A-Old-Cat.

stickguy

I saw a Subaru WRX (I think an STI) recently with a plate that read "all oem".

andre1969

I was in DC for a bit today, and spotted an old Jaguar E-type, the less graceful 2+2 version. Silver. Very nice condition, but I guess in this day and age, there probably aren't too many E-type beaters being driven around anymore.

Mr_Shiftright

If you do see an E-Type beater, I'll most likely be the 2+2.

fintail

I saw 2 late 70s/early 80s Corvettes in traffic today, both at different times, coincidence.

stever

Was the sun out?

Friend from Anacortes has been watching our weather. He called to check our schedule - he arrives here in a couple of weeks, lol.

fintail

First nice weekend day in awhile. I think we just broke the wettest "winter" (December-February) record, it has been bad.

stever

Saw you had the old girl out today. Good to see.

fintail

Yep, the dry break was nice. Raining again now, nothing obscure appears to be on the road. I was going to head down to the odd local auto auction, but weather and laziness stopped me.

explorerx4

A Dodge L'il Red Express pickup in great condition.