I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

andre1969

Another possibility I've thought of is trying to find the most recent Panther I could, but they're getting a bit scarce around these parts...at least nice, low mileage examples. While they had sold in decent numbers for years, I think they cut back production in the final few years, with the bulk of them getting pressed into police, taxi, rental, livery service, etc. And I think the cabbies are starting to snatch them up when they come on the market as well, as they'll probably take a lot more abuse pounding the asphalt jungle better than a lot of the more recent cars would.

I've noticed, in DC at least, there are an awful lot of Priuses being used as taxis. I know they're saving a ton on fuel costs, but I wonder how those cars hold up, long term, with all the abuse a taxi has to put up with?

As for a V6 Charger/300, I've thought about one. And they're probably quicker than my supercharged Park Ave. I guess I just have it wrapped in my mind that if I'm going to get a car like that, might as well go all out and get the Hemi! (so then I can whine about fuel economy, the extra cost of the mid-grade fuel, etc )

ab348

imidazol97 said:

I think you're spot on with that.

I'm surprised to see that screen in a Liucerne. I never knew any came with that.

andre1969

Yeah, was wondering about that touch screen, too. FWIW, the Lucerne I found for sale doesn't have it, but it's still a definite upgrade from my Park Ave!


Although I don't see where you put the cassette tapes...

ab348

I guess it did get Bluetooth for 2009 and newer years. I don't think the Edmunds editors liked the Lucerne very much:

"Although this Buick's coddling nature was a strong attribute, consumers looking at used full-size sedans should be aware that the Lucerne has numerous faults, the main ones being a lack of desirable luxury features, sloppy handling, unimpressive V6 acceleration, subpar brakes and a dated four-speed automatic transmission. Traditional Buick buyers may be willing to overlook these faults, but otherwise we think used luxury sedan shoppers can do better with other, more highly regarded choices such as the Hyundai Genesis or Toyota Avalon."

I can see an Avalon being a good substitute.

andre1969

I remember Edmund's wasn't too crazy about my generation of Park Avenue, either. I remember them saying they should de-content the car, rebadge it and call it "Chevrolet Caprice". Oh, and work on the build quality, fit and finish, etc!

Mr_Shiftright

sda said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

I'd shy away from any Northstar that hadn't had the head gaskets and head fasteners professionally redone.

I thought the later Northstars 2001+(?) had been improved and addressed this issue. Not true? My parent's had a 98 Aurora with the smaller Northstar and it suffered from both the infamous oil leak and then head gasket failure around 103k. My 01 Aurora 4.0 needed a water pump at 55k, didn't use oil and was fine otherwise. I did sell it at 87k, so don't know how it would have held up long term. It was a smooth running and had a nice sound when revved.

And so I thought as well---but cruising around other Cadillac forums, apparently the problem, though much rarer, is still there. I've read up to and including 2003 models. Apparently, 80K miles to 120K miles is the danger zone.

stever

andre1969 said:

I've noticed, in DC at least, there are an awful lot of Priuses being used as taxis. I know they're saving a ton on fuel costs, but I wonder how those cars hold up, long term, with all the abuse a taxi has to put up with?

I've quizzed a half dozen or more LA Prius-driving cabbies in the last few years and they all loved theirs. Not only do they save on gas, they don't need much maintenance or repair. About the only complaint anyone had was that the Prius C didn't drive well on the freeways - too much blowing around.

andre1969

stever said:

I've quizzed a half dozen or more LA Prius-driving cabbies in the last few years and they all loved theirs. Not only do they save on gas, they don't need much maintenance or repair. About the only complaint anyone had was that the Prius C didn't drive well on the freeways - too much blowing around.

Interesting. I figured their suspensions would get beat up on the streets (Dunno about LA, but DC's streets are crap). And, I also would have guessed that the types of fender-benders that would have just put mild scars on a Crown Vic would put a serious hurting on a Prius. But, they do seem to be holding up.

I wonder if they force the taxi companies to upgrade their fleets more often these days, too, so the cars get dumped before they become too troublesome? It does seem like the fleets are newer these days.

tjc78

Well you would have no argument from me for a later Panther. If you want to go past 2008 it would have to be a Town Car. The Grand Marquis just got too decontented by that time IMO. The last two years the Townie only came pretty much fully loaded but even by then you could no longer get NAV.

imidazol97

ab348 said:

"Although this Buick's coddling nature was a strong attribute, consumers looking at used full-size sedans should be aware that the Lucerne has numerous faults, the main ones being a lack of desirable luxury features, sloppy handling, unimpressive V6 acceleration, subpar brakes and a dated four-speed automatic transmission. Traditional Buick buyers may be willing to overlook these faults, but otherwise we think used luxury sedan shoppers can do better with other, more highly regarded choices such as the Hyundai Genesis or Toyota Avalon."

I can see an Avalon being a good substitute.

If GM had put toyota badges on the Buicks, Edmunds would have lilked them. LOL

uplanderguy

I liked that the Lucerne was about the last car that could be bought with a bench seat and column shift. Even if you never use the center position, I think there's an aura of more roominess (right leg not leaning against a console), and it is possible to slide out the right door.

fintail

I see an Impala steering wheel. Actually, I think this was also used in the DTS, at least earlier runs of the final generation. Love that parts bin.

I hope the Lucerne doesn't have some Impala ergonomics - I had an Impala rental in 2011, and I recall hitting my head on the A-pillar a couple times, just something odd about entrance/egress to me.

andre1969 said:

Yeah, was wondering about that touch screen, too. FWIW, the Lucerne I found for sale doesn't have it, but it's still a definite upgrade from my Park Ave!

Although I don't see where you put the cassette tapes...

berri

I always felt that the Ford Panthers drove different than the big rwd GM vehicles. GM maybe a little smoother and quieter, the Panther a bit tighter - but neither was a handler. I hailed a couple of cabs in Chicago awhile ago. They were both Camry's (which I think have kind of an old time GM ride). I queried the drivers about the Camry vs. the Crown Vic. They both responded they preferred driving the Camry and that it didn't breakdown as much. I'm guessing that is more a story about how quality has improved in general over the past decade though. Speaking of Panthers, I remember some years ago at the Chicago auto show where they showed a Grand Marquis convertible prototype. I might have been tempted to buy one of those had they made it back in those days. Top down and comfort.

lemko

Would you buy a used car from this little old lady?



Just saw this episode of the Andy Griffith Show last night. What would've been the blue book value of a 1954 Ford Customline four-door sedan in 1963? Andy made the remark, "That car's nearly ten years old. I'd say it's only worth around $100." Barney paid her $300.

uplanderguy

I remember that episode..."sawdust in the transmission; makes it shift reaallll smooth".

In a later episode, Barney drove a '58 Edsel.

andre1969

Oh, that's Grandma Walton. She wouldn't cheat ya! Although, she did accidentally food-poison two gunslingers in an Alfred Hitchcock episode...

I wonder if cars depreciated quicker around that timeframe, because the styles changed so quickly? The only reference points I can think of is my Mom, who bought a '57 Plymouth for $75 in 1965, and my Granddad who bought a '64 Galaxie around 1973, also for something like $75. I think the Galaxie needed a starter, and the previous owners kind of just wanted it gone.

uplanderguy

Aunt Bee drove a black '55 Ford Sunliner in the Griffith show, but drove her own '66 Studebaker Daytona in the 'Mayberry R.F.D.' show.

fintail

I noticed this low miles Lucerne Super sitting on the used lot at the local Lexus dealer

I think cars did depreciate faster in times past - as cars would often be worn out by 10 years old. And then we had the age when 70s behemoths became passe in the early 80s and were worth very little when some weren't terribly old.

stickguy

Cars wore out faster (and rusted out!) certainly. But they also changed styling quicker. Compare a 54 to 64 ford sedan. Look generations apart. Much less difference from a 2004 to a 2014!

andre1969

fintail said:

I noticed this low miles Lucerne Super sitting on the used lot at the local Lexus dealer

I think cars did depreciate faster in times past - as cars would often be worn out by 10 years old. And then we had the age when 70s behemoths became passe in the early 80s and were worth very little when some weren't terribly old.

That is a nice car...and it even has that chrome strip along the lower edge of the trunk that Uplanderguy likes!

uplanderguy

I think that adds such a nice, finishing touch to the rear end of the car. Without it, it looks naked! If I bought one without it, I'd order the piece and have a body shop put it on.

lemko

ab348 said:

imidazol97 said:

I think you're spot on with that.

I'm surprised to see that screen in a Liucerne. I never knew any came with that.

My 2007 Cadillac DTS has that same screen.

ab348

fintail said:

I noticed this low miles Lucerne Super sitting on the used lot at the local Lexus dealer
.

I notice that the 2007 has different instrument fonts than the one Andre found yesterday. Still italicized, but not as Chevy-like.

sda

I wouldn't mind a Buick Lacrosse Super which had the V8. I don't think they sold many of those and the only one I've seen was at the dealership as a new car. It was on the lot for months.

ab348

I gather that the Lacrosse Super (along with the Impala SS and the Grand Prix GXP) ate transmissions for breakfast.

berri

Remember that old cars cost a heck of a lot less new than they do today which probably also accounts for their low used prices. But you're right, between rust and mechanical issues, they didn't hold up as well and styling changed a lot more frequently.

andre1969

berri said:

Remember that old cars cost a heck of a lot less new than they do today which probably also accounts for their low used prices. But you're right, between rust and mechanical issues, they didn't hold up as well and styling changed a lot more frequently.

You just hit on something really important I think, Berri...the price creep they had back then. A 1954 Ford Customline 4-door sedan had a base MSRP of $1793 when it was new. I don't know what you would equate that to for 1963. Maybe a non-500 Galaxie? They started at $2507 for the base 4-door, while a Galaxie 500, which was the volume seller, was $2667.

I guess you could try arguing that a '54 Ford is more akin to a '63 Fairlane than it is a full-sized Ford, but even those were $2216 for a base Fairlane, $2304 for the Fairlane 500.

But, regardless, the older car had a lower starting price to begin with, and would only depreciate from there, so that might be why some of those prices seemed so low. FWIW, inflation was about 14%, from 1954-1963. So, that '54 Ford would have had a base price of around $2041, in adjusted 1963 dollars.

berri

Was out walking today and saw on of those Bathtub Caprices (what were they, maybe early 90's?) in mint shape and that maroon color pulling out of the Ford dealer no less.

stickguy

in % depreciation terms, that $300 for a used Ford is probably consistent. if it was 2k originally, 10 years later $300 = 15% for a well used car. Take a 2004 Taurus that MSRP 30K, in 2014 that amounts to $4,500 at 15% retained value.

no one would be shocked at a 10 YO ford sedan going for $4,500 (unless they thought it was too high!)

fintail

The very small value in raw dollars might make it seem worse than it was. Looking at money today, it is hard for those of us too young to remember to fathom that a decent enough running car could be had for $100. The styling changes help too - especially in certain specific 10-11 year gaps. A 65 Chevy compared to a 54 Chevy looks like a spaceship.

Speaking of gauge fonts from earlier, I noticed that in the 07 Lucerne, too. I am kind of OCD about fonts, and pseudo-sporty italic gauge fonts that have been a fad for several years can kind of irritate me. MB uses an italic font in everything these days, but at least it is sans serif. MB had a nice non-italic gauge font for maybe 25-30 years, but it was phased out several years ago. I think BMW has retained non-italic gauge fonts.

And then there's mid-century goodness like this:

tjc78

The heck with italics.... We need 80s goodness!! Except this is an 04

ab348

Ah, for a second I thought it was a 2014 Civic!

andre1969

Only problem with those older cars, is that the GPS was a bit more low-res. Here's the display from a c1982 Trans Am...

fintail

I like digital readouts, but 1980s-looking displays in new cars don't impress me. Many cars still have readouts that resemble the Dukes of Hazzard digital watch I had when I was 6.

My 2002 E55 had nav, COMAND 2.0, a system that I think dates back to 1998-99. It became kind of quaint - it always worked, but didn't like areas with newly built roads. The readout was maybe just a notch below the "Playskool" nav in my friend's 2012 Prius.

tjc78

Wow at 3:30 this morning on phone (while feeding the little one) that picture didn't look nearly as blurry. I've always been a sucker for digital dash. My 2012 Lacrosse had the best of both worlds, a full analog cluster and a HUD that the fonts were pretty similar to the pic above.

stevedebi

fintail said:

... MB had a nice non-italic gauge font for maybe 25-30 years, but it was phased out several years ago. I think BMW has retained non-italic gauge fonts.

And then there's mid-century goodness like this:

Ah, good memories. My dad had an early 1060s MB 190 with a similar dash. I recall that it would change to a hatch marking when it neared the shift points. My memory has it horizontal, not vertical, but that was a long time ago.

He kept it 10 years, finally got tired of having it repaired, and sold it - and promptly got orders back to Germany right after that. He would have kept it had he known, and had it refurbed at the factory.

andre1969

I got a call from my mechanic about an hour and a half ago. He found enough wrong with my 2000 Park Ave that it's essentially a death sentence. So, I guess it's time to get serious about this replacement car search. Let the games begin!

Michaell

andre1969 said:

I got a call from my mechanic about an hour and a half ago. He found enough wrong with my 2000 Park Ave that it's essentially a death sentence. So, I guess it's time to get serious about this replacement car search. Let the games begin!

Sorry to hear about that.

Shall we see you over on CCBA so we can all help you spend your money?

tifighter

Michaell said:

andre1969 said:

I got a call from my mechanic about an hour and a half ago. He found enough wrong with my 2000 Park Ave that it's essentially a death sentence. So, I guess it's time to get serious about this replacement car search. Let the games begin!

Sorry to hear about that.

Shall we see you over on CCBA so we can all help you spend your money?

Yeah, maybe breld can make some popcorn.

Michaell

tifighter said:

Michaell said:

andre1969 said:

I got a call from my mechanic about an hour and a half ago. He found enough wrong with my 2000 Park Ave that it's essentially a death sentence. So, I guess it's time to get serious about this replacement car search. Let the games begin!

Sorry to hear about that.

Shall we see you over on CCBA so we can all help you spend your money?

Yeah, maybe breld can make some popcorn.

@breld and I have plans to attend the Denver Auto Show this weekend. He thought about begging off, since he bought the X5 and MINI, and leased the Jetta, already this year - so no real reason for him to go snooping around all these shiny new cars.

But, who are we kidding?

@andre1969 - come on over, the water's fine.

stickguy

andre, I got my eye on one for you. I think it would make you twins with Lemko (other than color). Waiting on pictures still, but here you go:

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2007-cadillac-dts-4dr_sedan_performance-used-14828081.html

andre1969

thanks guys...I just posted my diatribe over there in the CCB forum, in more detail. It's a shame this isn't the old days, when I could just go out and find a used Catalina, St. Regis, Impala (the old kind), or any number of cars that I liked, and they'd be simple, RWD, and not old enough yet to be problem children. But, most of those old cars I like are so old, and far removed from modern times, that they wouldn't make a reliable daily driver. Plus, they're either trashed, or well-preserved so people want a mint for them. And newer cars, for all the hype of them lasting longer, really don't age all that well once you really get up in years. They're just too high-tech, and have stuff that can fail on them, totaling them, that didn't even exist 30-40 years ago.

stickguy

at least you can just drive the truck, and rotate around the fleet of classics to give them some exercise.

fintail

Come out and buy that Lucerne, I'll pick you up at the airport

andre1969 said:

I got a call from my mechanic about an hour and a half ago. He found enough wrong with my 2000 Park Ave that it's essentially a death sentence. So, I guess it's time to get serious about this replacement car search. Let the games begin!

fintail

That's the general idea, yes. Kind of an orange yellow color up to maybe 25 mph, then striped, then a red-orange, above about 40 mph I think. My car is an automatic, so the shift points on that illustration are alien to me.

stevedebi said:

Ah, good memories. My dad had an early 1060s MB 190 with a similar dash. I recall that it would change to a hatch marking when it neared the shift points. My memory has it horizontal, not vertical, but that was a long time ago.

He kept it 10 years, finally got tired of having it repaired, and sold it - and promptly got orders back to Germany right after that. He would have kept it had he known, and had it refurbed at the factory.

berri

Fin, that dash looks like a thermometer, or some piece of equipment in a doctors office years ago

bhill2

berri said:

Fin, that dash looks like a thermometer, or some piece of equipment in a doctors office years ago

For some weird reason I know that the piece of equipment I think you mean is a sphygmomanometer. It measured blood pressure using a tube of mercury (very ecological).

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah but back then they told us mercury was good for us.

laurasdada

My mother was a realtor, she had a few MB sedans and I remember the vertical speedo, too. And, I was just amazed when it changed to stripes, too cool!

Saw a Subaru SVX the other day. Cool, in a Subie kind of way.

berri

bhill2 your knowledge never ceases to amaze me, seriously. As for mercury, I recall a science teacher showing us how you could meld it in your hand. Oops - but people didn't know way back then.