I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

ab348

I did a search on Hemmings for '65 Impalas and they do seem to be somewhat rare compared to other 1960s years. There are a few nice ones though, and this seems to be the best buy, perhaps due to the odd colors:

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/chevrolet/impala/1689591.html

If money is less of a concern. this one looks like fun:

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/chevrolet/impala/1670341.html

Mr_Shiftright

texases said:

stever said:

Besides the '97 Previa All-Trac, the list includes the MB E320 Cabriolet ('93-'95), '95 BMW 850 CSi (12 cylinder....hmm), '93 Saab 900 Turbo SPG, '92 Land Rover Classic long wheelbase, '92 Subaru SVX, the oft touted S2000, '96 Volvo 850 R Wagon, the, er, Insight, '97 Bently Turbo R, and '04 Phaeton W12. And a '05['08 Elise to round out the list, all under 30 years of age and obtainable for less than $30k.

Interesting list...the 850 always gets lots of love these days, I'm not a fan, it was a major letdown after the 635 to me. I remember being amazed at how much more the E320 Cab cost compared to the sedan when new. Not sure I'd want an SVX.

I"m sure you don't want one.

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

I guess we need a data plate and build sheet with an original bill of sale with a corresponding canceled check

In an auction house, that's the royal flush hand that beats all others. People pay individuals like Galen Govier to fly around the country verifying the claims of authenticity, and a build sheet with RPO codes and proper VIN and fender tags trumps any brochure or hearsay story reprinted in books.

imidazol97

uplanderguy said:

LOL. This has been interesting. Were you the class clown?

Even before this conversation, I like thumbing through the brochures. Reminds me how dismal picking colors and optional equipment today is, LOL.

Color?

ab348

All quite nice! Although that last one looks like it has been reupholstered using a '70s velour fabric stitched in the original pattern.

Mr_Shiftright

Is this really stock on a '56 Packard Carib?

berri

Ima - once again some great shots! Thanks

imidazol97

berri said:

Ima - once again some great shots! Thanks

I have taken shots of interiors all season. These are the ones I could find still on my camera card. I should have others stored. But these show the colorful combos available. I realize some of these may have been aftermarket that I posted--I didn't have time to look up brochures before posting.

I drove past an area Honda store with lots of CRV's facing I75 along their fence line. All silver, grey, black. Blah.

uplanderguy

There are some interesting responses (I wrote a couple too but I won't call them interesting!) under that Hemmings article.

Those two '65's--I actually like the hardtop better as I think some styling is lost with the convertible top. I know there were some other two-tones in the brochure mentioned besides just a white top, but I can't even tell what color that top really is. It has the factory two-tone divide moldings, which could've been added later, of course. The top colors were colors also used on the "bottoms". I'm not sure what that top color is.

I've been around my share of '56 Caribbeans over the years. I don't believe that interior is factory at all, but reupholstered to complement the exterior. If I remember correctly--and since I'm not sure I'm stating that here--I'm not completely convinced the black exterior color is factory. I do recall a black Caribbean drawing in a brochure (hey, it was the last year for 'real' Packard and only 276 convertibles were built), but I seem to remember seeing some discussion about this black Caribbean--either it was repainted or it was a one-off when built. I simply can't remember which.

uplanderguy

Those interior shots--'58 Impala, '60 Ford Galaxie 500, and '63 Ford Galaxie 500 but reupholstered in a newer material.

bhill2

uplanderguy said:

Interesting coincidence: THIS ARTICLE on Hemmings today is about the 1965 BelAir and states that the 250 6 cylinder did indeed become available mid-year

That Hemmings article also mentions an optional 220 hp 283, which is not in even the mid-year brochure the one reader posted there, that shows the 396. A 220 hp 283 was available in the Chevelles starting in '64 but not apparently in the '65 full-sizes. A "whoops" in the Hemmings article.

If anyone still cares about this, the Standard Catalog of American Cars 1946-1975 (Revised 4th Edition) does indeed list the 250 6 cylinder as an option in the full-size cars in 1965, giving the corresponding engine codes as FY and FZ. It also notes the 220 hp 283 as an option, with engine codes DG and DH.

uplanderguy

I would say that is less reliable than factory brochures, versions from both at the beginning and middle of the model years, but to each his own I guess. I have that book somewhere in my house myself. I have found more than my share of other errors in it and books like it. I can't say that about brochures...not in my experience, anyway. And the 220 hp 283 is widely known as a Chevelle option, but as another guy posted under the Hemmings article, if both the early and mid-year '65 full-size Chevy brochures don't list it (and the mid-year one does include the new 396 engine and Turbo-Hydramatic), there doesn't seem to be a logical reason why a mid-year 250 and also a 220 hp 283 wouldn't be included in either of them. My two cents only, change gladly given.

In lieu of being absolutely positive, I think one needs to rely on what logically would be the most original and complete information--and from the source. But of course, "your results may vary".

Mr_Shiftright

Oh yeah, brochures can definitely be "wrong"...in that they might have come out before some production hassle caused a delay, or a factory burned down, etc. I know for a fact this happened a lot in the 1930s but I can't recall a specific case on a more modern car--I'm really not into that level of minutiae. But I've seen brochures list models that actually didn't exist.

I've seen errors in the Standard Catalog as well. I'm wary of it myself. When you think of it, the editors took on a gargantuan task there.

Even the Holy Grail---Automobile Quarterly, published (or used to) an errata now and then.

stickguy

still happens today, at least in some areas. Toyota for example likes to list models or options that don't actually ever get produced.

Mr_Shiftright

For instance, I bet those Chevrolet COPO options never appeared in brochures, did they?. But they certainly exist.

uplanderguy

COPO's weren't 'regular production'; hence, the "Central Office" designation. But I think you know what I mean---given a brochure and an encyclopedia of cars written years later, I'd always trust the brochure first. Far-more detail in a brochure, almost invariably. For instance, look at the detail on any page of that '65 brochure--you simply will not find that kind of detail, written and photographic, in any other book. Eleven pages of color factory photos and small print written by the marketing dept. from information given them by designers and engineers...no other book has that quantity of detail on 1965 full-size Chevrolets. And omarman also provided the link to Chevrolet's own historic information page on the cars. For those who won't see that, there's nothing really else for me to say on the topic...and I'm sure many are glad about that, LOL.

berri

I'm pretty sure you could still get 6 cylinders on full size cars in the mid 60's, just not a lot of them sold and those that did were more likely to be strippers with things like 3 on the tree. Actually, I'm not sure that a 283 would be that much faster than the 250, especially with a two speed Powerglide. Also, probably found them on some fleet vehicles (but probably not rental cars).

ab348

uplanderguy said:

There are some interesting responses (I wrote a couple too but I won't call them interesting!) under that Hemmings article.

Those two '65's--I actually like the hardtop better as I think some styling is lost with the convertible top. I know there were some other two-tones in the brochure mentioned besides just a white top, but I can't even tell what color that top really is. It has the factory two-tone divide moldings, which could've been added later, of course. The top colors were colors also used on the "bottoms". I'm not sure what that top color is.

Don't sell yourself short, Bill, I was glad to see you chime in.

On that '65 hardtop, it is Madeira Maroon over Cameo Beige, which according to the brochure was indeed a combo offered by the factory that year. But... The brochure also says that you couldn't get any two-tones on a SS! So is it a clone SS, a later respray, or were arms twisted when it was ordered?

I'm getting a headache...

fintail

My dad's 60 Ford wagon had that striped somewhat plaid interior, but with red inserts.

imidazol97 said:

Color?

uplanderguy

I can honestly say I've never seen a '65 SS in two-tone over the years. It seems like most two-tone '65's I remember were Biscaynes and Bel Airs, although I don't give any real importance to that, LOL.

stickguy

Fin, my son just ordered dark (cosmos) blue over chestnut brown on his audi. Striking colors, and really look good together. much cooler than typical black/gray over black that you see all over.

uplanderguy

My guess is that that painted top has been added in the past fifty years. Only a guess. Everything else on that car looks factory SS to me, in and out.

fintail

The color scheme of my car ended up being a selling point. I like unusual, and I like blue. This one may be a keeper, for its unusual configuration, and as it possibly could be the last diesel E sold here.

My blue is somewhat dark, one of those colors that really changes from sunlight to shade:



And I have never seen another one with brown interior and natural finish wood:



Somewhat of an "obscure" car for these details.

stickguy said:

Fin, my son just ordered dark (cosmos) blue over chestnut brown on his audi. Striking colors, and really look good together. much cooler than typical black/gray over black that you see all over.

stickguy

sharp.

ab348

That is a lovely-looking car. Fin, how do you like living with a diesel?

iluvmysephia1

One of the digital downfalls of the "earthtone" colors is telling them apart from one another in the digital setting. This is a 2016 Scion iA that I had a hankering for at one time, but I only think it's a black one that IIRC Scion named Pulse.

Couldn't that also be Titanium Grey? I was just Imagineering what a '62 Chevy Nova would look like in metallic grey. I do like those wheels. Was thinking about my trip ta the Mile High City in June earlier today, where my intention was to trade my '11 Kia Soul stick for a black 6-speed '16 Scion iA. I was all set ta deal - I would've been blown away if I didn't like the test drive of this car.

Then..."oh, we sold it just a half-hour ago." Really? I took a long gander around Mountain States Toyota/Scion's lot and I saw xD's, tC's, Corolla's and FR-S' even, but nary a black '16 iA. Incredible these real-life adventures in the pursuit of cars ta buy. I followed a Frosty white iA for months before that Pulse one for about a month before that trip over there.

fintail

Thanks.

I enjoy the little diesel engine. It shows how far things have advanced with a 2.1 liter 4 can perform like this. It has character, and plenty of power for normal driving. I don't get to take full advantage of it in my grinding commute, but I make up for it on road trips.

uplanderguy

My guess is that that painted top has been added in the past fifty years. Only a guess. Everything else on that car looks factory SS to me, in and out.

What may have well happened, and I've seen this on other cars over the years, is that it was originally fitted with a vinyl top and when that top got crappy, it was removed and the top painted--divide moldings already present. We'll probably never know unless we spoke to the original owner. But if I was a bettin' man, I'd bet that painted top was done after-the-fact.

ab348

The vinyl top is possible I guess, as you could order one on the SS but only in black. With such a low-miles original car as stated, it seems odd that the top would deteriorate though.

Mr_Shiftright

What'd you really want is some of those dealer ordering materials, if you could find them.

uplanderguy

I don't know about Chevy trim tags of that period. I'd think paint color(s) would be identified therein. I know on my much-later Chevys, the tag affixed to inside the decklid had a paint code number for "L" (lower) and "U" (upper).

Don't have the time or desire to today, but I might go to the Chevrolet Historical Site for '65 and see if they have the order guides. Someone else posted there's nothing about a 250 there, but I'm curious if there is anything about two-tones on SS's.

Again, the trim tag I would think would answer this mystery, and when the energy hits me (I just waxed my wife's Malibu for the winter), I might contact the seller of the beige with maroon top SS to see if he can provide a pic of the trim tag or at least some codes.

If I'm wrong (and the brochure is), I'm totally OK with that. I would just like to get down to the bottom of this because as we all know, when something is in print, even if it's wrong, it suddenly becomes fact forever. And I am indeed curious about that two-tone. I like getting to the bottom of stuff--no doubt because I've been an auditor my entire adult life.

roadburner

fintail said:

The color scheme of my car ended up being a selling point. I like unusual, and I like blue. This one may be a keeper, for its unusual configuration, and as it possibly could be the last diesel E sold here.

My blue is somewhat dark, one of those colors that really changes from sunlight to shade:



And I have never seen another one with brown interior and natural finish wood:



Somewhat of an "obscure" car for these details.

stickguy said:

Fin, my son just ordered dark (cosmos) blue over chestnut brown on his audi. Striking colors, and really look good together. much cooler than typical black/gray over black that you see all over.

Love that color combination.

uplanderguy

I don't think I've seen a late-model blue 'Benz. Very attractive.

ab348

My only gripe with Fin's Benz is that the chestnut brown interior has too much black IMO. The center armrest/console cover should be brown and I think you could argue that at least portions of the dash should be a brown color instead of black. still looks good though. I seem to recall that on E coupes they offered a blue leather interior which was also very handsome.

fintail

A brown dash would have been nice, yeah. I think the dash pads might only exist in black and grey for this model (Germans seem to love black interiors).

MB definitely had blue interiors in some models around the turn of the century, there were two tone blue and black interiors available on AMG models then too.

uplanderguy

fin, just stumbled on this somewhat-connected M-B owner of old, who had his 220S serviced at Keenan Motors, Stude and Benz dealer in Philly.

http://www.studebaker-info.org/Dealers/keenan21051964a.jpg

fintail

Somewhat connected? A quick google reveals he was Teddy Roosevelt's grandson. Not bad It'd be amusing to see the total cost of those services.

I notice one piece of the paperwork mentions it is a convertible, so it would be a ponton. The cabrios were a lot more expensive than ponton or fintail sedans, which might match the owner's position. They are now kind of on the border of the "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" price range:

uplanderguy said:

fin, just stumbled on this somewhat-connected M-B owner of old, who had his 220S serviced at Keenan Motors, Stude and Benz dealer in Philly.

http://www.studebaker-info.org/Dealers/keenan21051964a.jpg

sda

fintail said:

The color scheme of my car ended up being a selling point. I like unusual, and I like blue. This one may be a keeper, for its unusual configuration, and as it possibly could be the last diesel E sold here.

My blue is somewhat dark, one of those colors that really changes from sunlight to shade:



And I have never seen another one with brown interior and natural finish wood:



Somewhat of an "obscure" car for these details.

stickguy said:

Fin, my son just ordered dark (cosmos) blue over chestnut brown on his audi. Striking colors, and really look good together. much cooler than typical black/gray over black that you see all over.

I really like that color combination. It reminds me somewhat of the '98 Millenia that I had.
It was twilight mica blue with a two tone beige and brown interior. The dash, steering wheel and assorted trim was a mocha brown.

Oh, and my 2000 Olds Intrigue GL had a similar color combo, midnight metallic blue with a tan and mocha interior. Surprisingly I don't have any pictures of the Intrigue. I've always taken pictures of the cars I've owned to remember them by. I did take pictures but the roll of film somehow was lost at the developer.

ab348

sda said:

Oh, and my 2000 Olds Intrigue GL had a similar color combo, midnight metallic blue with a tan and mocha interior. Surprisingly I don't have any pictures of the Intrigue. I've always taken pictures of the cars I've owned to remember them by. I did take pictures but the roll of film somehow was lost at the developer.

I only have a few pics of my former '02 Intrigue and in trying to locate them just now I thought I lost them thanks to Microsoft wrecking my file sharing between the two PCs in the house when I converted the second one to Windows 10, maintaining their long-standing tradition of making home networking as difficult and confusing as possible. After wasting an hour or so of time-wasting I finally got it working again.

Anyway, here it is, a base model, so cloth interior, gray in this instance. It still looked pretty good when I traded it in in 2009, when these pics were taken. Twilight Teal is the paint color but it always read as blue to my eye.

Michaell

ab348 said:

sda said:

Oh, and my 2000 Olds Intrigue GL had a similar color combo, midnight metallic blue with a tan and mocha interior. Surprisingly I don't have any pictures of the Intrigue. I've always taken pictures of the cars I've owned to remember them by. I did take pictures but the roll of film somehow was lost at the developer.

I only have a few pics of my former '02 Intrigue and in trying to locate them just now I thought I lost them thanks to Microsoft wrecking my file sharing between the two PCs in the house when I converted the second one to Windows 10, maintaining their long-standing tradition of making home networking as difficult and confusing as possible. After wasting an hour or so of time-wasting I finally got it working again.

Anyway, here it is, a base model, so cloth interior, gray in this instance. It still looked pretty good when I traded it in in 2009, when these pics were taken. Twilight Teal is the paint color but it always read as blue to my eye.

Sharp looking!

I always enjoyed getting an Intrigue as a rental. Seemed a step up from the other GM models that were available at the time.

fintail

The Millenia looks pretty similar yeah. Those are both pretty obscure now. Haven't noticed an Intrigue or Millenia on the road in ages.

sda said:

I really like that color combination. It reminds me somewhat of the '98 Millenia that I had.
Oh, and my 2000 Olds Intrigue GL had a similar color combo, midnight metallic blue with a tan and mocha interior. Surprisingly I don't have any pictures of the Intrigue. I've always taken pictures of the cars I've owned to remember them by. I did take pictures but the roll of film somehow was lost at the developer.

stickguy

yesterday at the supermarket, parked out in the lot with the top down, a nice looking MG-B. Chrome bumper. Only saw from a distance driving out, but looked well kept. Red.

sda

ab348 said:

sda said:

Oh, and my 2000 Olds Intrigue GL had a similar color combo, midnight metallic blue with a tan and mocha interior. Surprisingly I don't have any pictures of the Intrigue. I've always taken pictures of the cars I've owned to remember them by. I did take pictures but the roll of film somehow was lost at the developer.

I only have a few pics of my former '02 Intrigue and in trying to locate them just now I thought I lost them thanks to Microsoft wrecking my file sharing between the two PCs in the house when I converted the second one to Windows 10, maintaining their long-standing tradition of making home networking as difficult and confusing as possible. After wasting an hour or so of time-wasting I finally got it working again.

Anyway, here it is, a base model, so cloth interior, gray in this instance. It still looked pretty good when I traded it in in 2009, when these pics were taken. Twilight Teal is the paint color but it always read as blue to my eye.

My Intrigue looked identical, with rear spoiler, same wheels, same cloth except tan, and a sunroof. It was a good running nice driving car. I would have had it longer but found a very clean '01 Aurora 4.0 that I had to have. Probably should have kept the Intrigue.

ab348

My Intrigue was a pretty good car. I loved the room, the visibility and low cowl/beltline. The engine was sweet too. Really didn't have any problems with it until the last year when the A/C sprung a leak and it needed new brakes/rotors. Could have kept it, probably should have in retrospect.

berri

I always liked the Intrigue. I wish they would have given John Rock a little more time with Oldsmobile, but I suppose the handwriting was on the wall for reducing car brand lines. I think Mr. Rock gave it a great last shot for the time available and what he had to work with personally.

roadburner

I always thought GM should have merged Saturn into Olds and created a division focusing on innovation and unique and attractive cars- like the Aurora.

iluvmysephia1

I always thought GM should have merged Saturn into Olds and created a division focusing on innovation and unique and attractive cars- like the Aurora.

Couldn't disagree with that, roadburner. Saturn, with those "pop-outable" body panels.

Michaell

iluvmysephia1 said:

I always thought GM should have merged Saturn into Olds and created a division focusing on innovation and unique and attractive cars- like the Aurora.

Couldn't disagree with that, roadburner. Saturn, with those "pop-outable" body panels.

Which were hugely expensive to manufacture, and prevented the assembly line from building anything else.

As the owner of four Saturns, I was rooting for the brand, but completely understood why GM had to euthanize it.

sda

ab348 said:

My Intrigue was a pretty good car. I loved the room, the visibility and low cowl/beltline. The engine was sweet too. Really didn't have any problems with it until the last year when the A/C sprung a leak and it needed new brakes/rotors. Could have kept it, probably should have in retrospect.

ab348--I hope you don't mind, I sent you a message yesterday, s/b in your Edmunds inbox.

sda

roadburner said:

I always thought GM should have merged Saturn into Olds and created a division focusing on innovation and unique and attractive cars- like the Aurora.

I thought Olds had one of the most attractive model line up of GM when GM decided to shutter it. I guess as a last effort it was interesting to watch Olds adopt some of Saturn's sales practices of no nonsense one price format and low pressure sales. The dealerships, at least those that were remodeled looked very much like a Saturn dealership. When dad bought his '95 Cutlass, they were utilizing this strategy. Sadly after Olds sales became a trickle, they moved Olds to the Cadillac dealership and converted the Olds location to sell Toyotas, and later and currently VWs.