I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

ab348

roadburner said:

I remember that either Car and Driver or Road & Track tested one of the badge-engineered Monza derivatives(a Skyhawk, as I recall) and during the braking tests the front brakes became so hot that the plastic wheels covers melted and fell off.

I remember the same magazines (probably C&D) having the same thing happen with the early Ford Tempo.

fintail

Saw a Jag XJS today with a "leaper" on the hood, makes me reach for the "wrong answer" buzzer sound button. Also saw a LWB W126 in traffic, they keep soldiering along.

roadburner

ab348 said:

roadburner said:

I remember that either Car and Driver or Road & Track tested one of the badge-engineered Monza derivatives(a Skyhawk, as I recall) and during the braking tests the front brakes became so hot that the plastic wheels covers melted and fell off.

I remember the same magazines (probably C&D) having the same thing happen with the early Ford Tempo.

My mom had a 1984 Topaz- talk about a steaming pile...

explorerx4

I think the C&D test was an LTD LX, not a Tempo.

fintail

IIRC, early Tempos either had metal hubcaps or wheels, no plastic hubcaps. But I could be wrong. I don't know if an early Tempo could gain enough momentum to generate the heat required to melt a wheel cover

magnette

Out yesterday in the Magnette I saw a Ferrari 330GT -the MkII version with the single headlights - it was going the other way on a local main road only a few miles away.

Later in the Fiesta I was on some errands and two cars behind me in the traffic a Cadillac - I turned off after about two miles but I did get a look at it as it went through the junction - a two door pillarless model and either a 52 or 53 I think. Again this was local to me -it was only one street from here when I first saw it - but I've never seen this car before round here...

js06gv

fintail said:

IIRC, early Tempos either had metal hubcaps or wheels, no plastic hubcaps. But I could be wrong. I don't know if an early Tempo could gain enough momentum to generate the heat required to melt a wheel cover

That is no lie. Tempos were just awful cars all the way around.

fintail

We had an 85 Tempo in the family until 1999/190K miles. It was actually fairly reliable, didn't get finicky until it passed 100K miles. It was abused by new driver teens later in life, too, but still kept chugging along. Can't imagine it is still on the road though. I am pretty sure my fintail could dust it in a 0-60 race.

Stopped by local specialty used car dealer Park Place today, which has moved as the boondoggle new transit project claimed the land where the old facility was located. This caught my eye - early E-Type with wide whites, and I even like the color:



Another blue car in the room:



There was also a Crosley station wagon around back. While on the road today in the fintail, I spotted a BMW E28 535is parked on the street, must be somewhat uncommon. No vintage cars on the road.

toomanyfumes

Nice weekend here, Triumph TR6, Datsun 280Z, and early 1960`s Imperial.

kyfdx

At the local Cars N Coffee, an '88 BMW M5. Looked original and in very nice condition. Didn't catch the mileage. It was for sale: $28K.

sda

There is a guy in our neighborhood that has a '73 Dodge Challenger S/E that I see from time to time. He was driving it yesterday. I haven't seen it up close but from a distance it looks nice and sounds great. It is purple with white half vinyl top, factory sunroof (which was open), white interior. It looks this just different color.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.M274486b96aabd3b271e4ad13194f2a4eo0&w=300&h=225&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0

ab348

That's a Charger, not a Challenger.

When that design was introduced for the '71 model year, I thought it was the best-looking car on the road. Our family was in the market for a new car at the time and since we were trading in a '69 Impala sport coupe, I figured another 2-door wouldn't be out of the question. When the time came I dragged the parents to the Dodge dealer and we looked at one in the showroom. Even I had to admit that it was a disappointment. While the styling on the outside was great, the interior and dashboard design just left all of us cold. I still remember how unabashedly awful the fake woodgrain on the dash looked.

However, all was not lost as they fell in love with a '71 Monaco 4-door hardtop and bought one of those, which turned out to be one of my all-time favorite cars in the family.

sda

ab348 said:

That's a Charger, not a Challenger.

When that design was introduced for the '71 model year, I thought it was the best-looking car on the road. Our family was in the market for a new car at the time and since we were trading in a '69 Impala sport coupe, I figured another 2-door wouldn't be out of the question. When the time came I dragged the parents to the Dodge dealer and we looked at one in the showroom. Even I had to admit that it was a disappointment. While the styling on the outside was great, the interior and dashboard design just left all of us cold. I still remember how unabashedly awful the fake woodgrain on the dash looked.

However, all was not lost as they fell in love with a '71 Monaco 4-door hardtop and bought one of those, which turned out to be one of my all-time favorite cars in the family.

My bad, I just saw a new Challenger drive by and brain fog set in. I always liked the '72 Monaco. I thought it had a neat looking front end with the hidden head lamps. Our neighbors had a '72 Monaco wagon, complete with wood grain sides. It was metallic brown with brown interior, third row back seat, elec windows, seats, cruise, a/c, am/fm. I believe it had the 360. About two months after buying it they got rear ended and pushed into another car on the Mississippi River Bridge in New Orleans. That happened frequently on that bridge. Made a mess out of the car, though no one was hurt. It was repaired but it was obvious it had body work. They didn't keep it very long after that.

roadburner

kyfdx said:

At the local Cars N Coffee, an '88 BMW M5. Looked original and in very nice condition. Didn't catch the mileage. It was for sale: $28K.

Probably not a bad deal. How many miles? The main thing to do is make sure that the timing chain has been changed prior to 100k miles.

kyfdx

roadburner said:

kyfdx said:

At the local Cars N Coffee, an '88 BMW M5. Looked original and in very nice condition. Didn't catch the mileage. It was for sale: $28K.

Probably not a bad deal. How many miles? The main thing to do is make sure that the timing chain has been changed prior to 100k miles.

Didn't get the mileage. That M5 had a chain, not a belt?

Either way, wouldn't be worth it to me, at that price. I really like that car, but not $28K worth. Not really interested in "collecting".

roadburner

kyfdx said:

roadburner said:

kyfdx said:

At the local Cars N Coffee, an '88 BMW M5. Looked original and in very nice condition. Didn't catch the mileage. It was for sale: $28K.

Probably not a bad deal. How many miles? The main thing to do is make sure that the timing chain has been changed prior to 100k miles.

Didn't get the mileage. That M5 had a chain, not a belt?

Either way, wouldn't be worth it to me, at that price. I really like that car, but not $28K worth. Not really interested in "collecting".

The only US BMWs that had a timing belt were the E28 528e/524td, the E30 325 e/i, and the early E34 525i. You could buy it and drive it for a couple of years and not lose any money, I'd bet.

kyfdx

roadburner said:

kyfdx said:

roadburner said:

kyfdx said:

At the local Cars N Coffee, an '88 BMW M5. Looked original and in very nice condition. Didn't catch the mileage. It was for sale: $28K.

Probably not a bad deal. How many miles? The main thing to do is make sure that the timing chain has been changed prior to 100k miles.

Didn't get the mileage. That M5 had a chain, not a belt?

Either way, wouldn't be worth it to me, at that price. I really like that car, but not $28K worth. Not really interested in "collecting".

The only US BMWs that had a timing belt were the E28 528e/524td, the E30 325 e/i, and the early E34 525i. You could buy it and drive it for a couple of years and not lose any money, I'd bet.

It's pretty cool, but not that cool.

uplanderguy

I thought the '71 Charger was a big improvement at the time. I really liked the styling then. But I think, generally, they did move them downmarket some as it also took the place of the Coronet coupes, even the lower-line ones. For four-doors, I thought the '71 Coronet redesign was a good one; I liked it infinitely better than the Satellite. I couldn't handle that low-cut front wheel opening on the Satellite. They opened it up some for '73.

fintail

Speaking of 71 Mopars, my grandpa developed a thing for the fuselage cars, and dumped his red 65 Newport (that had been virtually flawless) for a 71 Newport. Apparently it was built like a tank, also kind of looked like a tank - green on green with a green vinyl top. 383 with dog dish hubcaps, so it looked kind of mean. It was very finicky though, I've heard many stories of how it would refuse to start or would stall out, and it needed a bit of work out of warranty. It wasn't replaced with another Chrysler, and the family still reminisces about the 65, but not the 71 so much.

roadburner

uplanderguy said:

I thought the '71 Charger was a big improvement at the time. I really liked the styling then. But I think, generally, they did move them downmarket some as it also took the place of the Coronet coupes, even the lower-line ones. For four-doors, I thought the '71 Coronet redesign was a good one; I liked it infinitely better than the Satellite. I couldn't handle that low-cut front wheel opening on the Satellite. They opened it up some for '73.

The plan with the 1971 Chrysler intermediates was to kill two birds with one stone; the two door coupes were styled much differently from the four doors with the idea that the two doors would double as "Personal Luxury" coupes à la the Monte Carlo and Grand Prix.

Mr_Shiftright

roadburner said:

kyfdx said:

At the local Cars N Coffee, an '88 BMW M5. Looked original and in very nice condition. Didn't catch the mileage. It was for sale: $28K.

Probably not a bad deal. How many miles? The main thing to do is make sure that the timing chain has been changed prior to 100k miles.

If it's an E28, that's a pretty rare car. The U.S. version have a different engine than the Euro cars though.

Complex engine---24 valves, DOHC, dual timing chain, 6 throttle bodies, shimmed valves and is not particularly long-lived. One should exercise caution in a purchase.

I'd imagine the one you saw was either needy or a really good buy....presuming you like that sort of thing. The problem is that its performance was fantastic "in the day" but now there are many ordinary cars that can walk away from it.

kyfdx

Mr_Shiftright said:

roadburner said:

kyfdx said:

At the local Cars N Coffee, an '88 BMW M5. Looked original and in very nice condition. Didn't catch the mileage. It was for sale: $28K.

Probably not a bad deal. How many miles? The main thing to do is make sure that the timing chain has been changed prior to 100k miles.

If it's an E28, that's a pretty rare car. The U.S. version have a different engine than the Euro cars though.

Complex engine---24 valves, DOHC, dual timing chain, 6 throttle bodies, shimmed valves and is not particularly long-lived. One should exercise caution in a purchase.

I'd imagine the one you saw was either needy or a really good buy....presuming you like that sort of thing. The problem is that its performance was fantastic "in the day" but now there are many ordinary cars that can walk away from it.

Of course it was an E28. Bone stock.
You don't buy an '80s vehicle expecting modern day performance. 256 HP for this one made it exceptional (for it's time). My '84 911 only had 200 HP (though, under 3000 lbs).

If $28K is a good buy, I'll not own one, I think. Didn't look like it had any needs, though.

Mr_Shiftright

Here's a Euro Spec for $70,000

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/bmw/m5/1837785.html

E34s came out in 1988, so that's why I asked. Back in "those days", you sometimes saw cars registered to a year ahead.

I think the GA-GA for the USA version of the M5 has flattened out considerably in the past few years.

roadburner

kyfdx said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

roadburner said:

kyfdx said:

At the local Cars N Coffee, an '88 BMW M5. Looked original and in very nice condition. Didn't catch the mileage. It was for sale: $28K.

Probably not a bad deal. How many miles? The main thing to do is make sure that the timing chain has been changed prior to 100k miles.

If it's an E28, that's a pretty rare car. The U.S. version have a different engine than the Euro cars though.

Complex engine---24 valves, DOHC, dual timing chain, 6 throttle bodies, shimmed valves and is not particularly long-lived. One should exercise caution in a purchase.

I'd imagine the one you saw was either needy or a really good buy....presuming you like that sort of thing. The problem is that its performance was fantastic "in the day" but now there are many ordinary cars that can walk away from it.

Of course it was an E28. Bone stock.
You don't buy an '80s vehicle expecting modern day performance. 256 HP for this one made it exceptional (for it's time). My '84 911 only had 200 HP (though, under 3000 lbs).

If $28K is a good buy, I'll not own one, I think. Didn't look like it had any needs, though.

Lose the highly restrictive cat and add a Conforti or Dinan chip and you are north of 300hp easy.

texases

Dinan only lists a chip for the Euro E28 M5, 11 hp gain. I'd never ditch the cat.

fintail

Out for a jog this morning, saw an E30 cut down into a pickup, a 96-00 generation Acura EL (Canuckistan DM), and a very clean first gen Integra 5 door, in the beige gold color that probably made up 75% of production.

fintail

E34 was 1989-96 MY in NA. I think the 1996 model year was short, or not at all.

roadburner

texases said:

Dinan only lists a chip for the Euro E28 M5, 11 hp gain. I'd never ditch the cat.

The Conforti tuning chip for the U.S. S38 is still around; it adds 48 hp and 32 lb-ft of torque. Losing the cat is easy- mine fell off in the garage late one night. It's dead easy to replace- unscrew eight bolts and the 02 sensor and it's out. find an old Fahey Track Pipe or fabricate one of your own and you are good to go.
In addition to the performance boost it's remarkable how much cooling the interior stays without the cat- one of the issues of early European cars that weren't originally designed to have a catalyst slung underneath.

fintail

On the road - a 4WD Toyota "Wonder Wagon" van.

ab348

fintail said:

On the road - a 4WD Toyota "Wonder Wagon" van.

Those were hugely popular here when new. Tinworm got to them in a hurry in this climate though.

uplanderguy

I saw an '80's Jeep Commanche pickup tonight--white, and looked solid and pretty clean.

On a side note, if anyone gets 'Hemmings Classic Car' magazine....in December's issue, a friend of mine who writes a column three or four times a year mentioned me by name on page 47. I laughed when I saw it, waiting in line at Burger King the day it came in the mail, LOL. It's about he and I discussing what year Chevrolet was most changed from the year before. In my mind, it was '65 from '64, but he correctly said '55 from '54 when underhood things are taken into consideration.

fintail

Popular here too - and because of the mild climate, they survived. I see the 2WD ones now and then, but the 4WD are pretty thin on the ground, and were uncommon when new. I remember when I was in grade school, a teacher had a camper conversion one, haven't seen anything like that in 20 years or more.

ab348 said:

Those were hugely popular here when new. Tinworm got to them in a hurry in this climate though.

fintail

Spotted a 77-78 LTD II parked in front of a house near my grandmother's today. I will always associate that car with the SNL "Royal Deluxe II" commercial.

54-55 was an amazing leap for Chevy, I like to joke that purchasers of the 54 must have been pretty unhappy a year later.

explorerx4

Last couple of days, 70 or so brown/copper GTO and silvery/green 65 GTO. Both convertibles with black tops.

Mr_Shiftright

Some consider the '55 Chevrolet to be the first "modern" postwar American car. I would tend to agree with that, if you combine powertrain, styling, suspension and manufacturing techniques.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

On a side note, if anyone gets 'Hemmings Classic Car' magazine....in December's issue, a friend of mine who writes a column three or four times a year mentioned me by name on page 47. I laughed when I saw it, waiting in line at Burger King the day it came in the mail, LOL. It's about he and I discussing what year Chevrolet was most changed from the year before. In my mind, it was '65 from '64, but he correctly said '55 from '54 when underhood things are taken into consideration.

I read that piece the other day. I have to agree with the author, sorry.

uplanderguy

We're good friends, it's OK, LOL. He's eleven years older than me, so I think the '54/55 was fresher in his mind. I always wondered how Chevy dealers sold leftover '64's when the '65's came out. But then, I'm not a fan in the least of the '64. I like it the least of the '62-63-64 Chevys. While a '55 Chevy is a very handsome car compared to the '54 (IMHO), the styling concept is similar--three box. The '64 was three-box and the '65 was slippery. I've read that the old joke was that the '65 Ford looked like the box the '65 Chevy came in.

ab348

I re-read it last night since the magazine was on my bedside table. I did love the line about how you worship the ground under any Evening Orchid '65 Chevy sports coupe. Can't blame you for that.

I find the '53/'54 Chevys unspeakably dull and conservative, so I can understand why the '55 was such a sea change. The V-8 also made them much more appealing to a certain audience. Like you I have zero interest in the '64 Chevy. I find it difficult to understand how they could have styled it to look so unappealing after the attractive '62 and '63 designs. So from that POV the '65 is also a huge step up. Didn't the '65 have some pretty bad quality problems though? Maybe that is what detracts in my mind.

uplanderguy

The guy who wrote the article told me, that back in the day when he was wrenching at a busy Shell station, if I looked underneath of a '65 and a '64, I wouldn't like the '65 nearly as much. In his mind, it had been cheapened. But I love the styling.

A classmate of mine's Dad was the Asst. Superintendent of Schools and he had an office in our elementary school. They had a '65 Impala Sport Coupe in Evening Orchid with black cloth and vinyl bench seat and 327 and Powerglide. I used to gaze at it out our classroom window.

I mentioned this to him about ten years ago at one of our reunions, and he couldn't believe I could remember that car.

fintail

Maybe I am weird, but I like the 64 Impala, especially in 2 door SS HT form. I like the trim on the car. When I was a young pre-driving teen, one of my dream "first cars" was a 64 SS. I also liked the 62-63 and 65-66. Of course, even then (early 90s), something like that was way out of my price range.

stickguy

I'm with fin. The 65 is more swoops, but I think the 64 styling is more attractive.

uplanderguy

I think for a long time, collectors liked the '64 better. I just never cared for the blunt front and rears and U-shaped sculpturing down the side. When new cars, the '65 sold a record. There were over one million Impalas sold--and that's not even counting the less-expensive Biscayne and Bel Air on the same body. My guess is that that record stood for some time.

I think the '65 hardtop styling doesn't have a bad line on it--and neither does the interior. And I love Evening Orchid, a one-year-only color. Some might say it's feminine, but I think it's elegant. I've always liked it on those cars.

Mr_Shiftright

Hard to believe that in 1965 GM had the resources to field 8 different families of V8 engine.

texases

Mr_Shiftright said:

Hard to believe that in 1965 GM had the resources to field 8 different families of V8 engine.

I'm finishing up "Car Guys vs. Bean Counters" by Bob Lutz, it's a good description of GM, with his short history of how they went from huge power in the '60s to Chapter 11. About half the book is spent on the 2000-2010 period when he was there. Worth a read.

stever

Everything goes in cycles I guess. GM just beat expectations - naturally the stock fell on the good news. Funny how that works. (Reuters)

Mr_Shiftright

Chevy Cruze won a "most reliable car" award from CR. Then again, Cadillac Escalade won the "worst car" award.

texases

An Buick is now rated #3 (behind Toyota and Lexus, ahead of Audi and Kia) for reliability.

Michaell

texases said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Hard to believe that in 1965 GM had the resources to field 8 different families of V8 engine.

I'm finishing up "Car Guys vs. Bean Counters" by Bob Lutz, it's a good description of GM, with his short history of how they went from huge power in the '60s to Chapter 11. About half the book is spent on the 2000-2010 period when he was there. Worth a read.

One of many automobile business related books I have on my bookshelf.

You should also read "on a clear day, you can see general motors" by John DeLorean. Another expose of GM, this time from the late 60's and early 70's.

sda

Spotted a fairly clean '69 Cadillac Calais coupe in a shopping center parking lot. Looked like a daily driver, but overall in good condition.

uplanderguy

Chevy Cruze won a "most reliable car" award from CR.

A guy I used to spar with on another forum here is probably grumpy about this. I never saw another guy who liked to, you know, in somebody else's Wheaties when something good happens, LOL.

He reminded me of the parents in the movie "Radio Days": "The Pacific's a better ocean! Nuh uh, the Atlantic's a better ocean!", LOL.