I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

imidazol97

fintail said:

The 60 Ford had vacuum wipers, .

Didn't those have the backup vacuum from the fuel pump so they wouldn't completely stop when
full acceleration dropped the intake manifold vacuum to near zero?

ab348

I remember as a kid driving in someone's car (I want to say a '58 Chevy, but that may be wrong) that had vacuum wipers and those things would stop under hard acceleration and then wipe like crazy when you let off the gas. Whatever system it used it certainly wasn't well-regulated.

ab348

fintail said:

I've never had a car without a driver's mirror. The 60 Ford had vacuum wipers, I remember those clearly. Heater delete but with AC is a funny thing to imagine, but in the PNW we have another quirk. It is unusual to find locally delivered cars from before the mid or in some cases late 70s with AC - nobody bothered. I think the low frequency of use and not being accustomed to it (even today you can easily buy a million dollar house here without AC) didn't justify the price.

Same way up here in Nova Scotia. Cars well into the '80s often did not have A/C, and with some imports it was even later. Neither my '85 MR2 or my '90 GTI had it.

I find the idea that GM would actually engineer an AC system to be installed without an accompanying heater hilarious. Back then they did some remarkable things.

fintail

I suspect for really basic stuff like an early 90s Accent or Tercel, we still got quite a few without AC, too. Rear defrost was seen as much more important.

What was the last car offered here without AC? It must be standard on everything on this continent by now.

ab348 said:

Same way up here in Nova Scotia. Cars well into the '80s often did not have A/C, and with some imports it was even later. Neither my '85 MR2 or my '90 GTI had it.

I find the idea that GM would actually engineer an AC system to be installed without an accompanying heater hilarious. Back then they did some remarkable things.

fintail

I'm not sure. I remember they would slow upon engine load, but I don't remember them stopping. Did they have adjustable speed? I seem to recall when my dad would drive it in the common light drizzle here, he would set them on a very slow speed, seemed to get a kick out of that. Makes the dual speed electric with foot operated washer in the fintail seem luxurious.

Speaking of wipers, the French copy nobody, and nobody copies the French:

https://youtu.be/fxU3KbSHH3o

While the fintail is a little more normal:

https://youtu.be/Mxz0pxF900k

imidazol97 said:

fintail said:

The 60 Ford had vacuum wipers, .

Didn't those have the backup vacuum from the fuel pump so they wouldn't completely stop when
full acceleration dropped the intake manifold vacuum to near zero?

imidazol97

fintail said:

I remember they would slow upon engine load, but I don't remember them stopping.

I looked it up on the new car brochures. It says all engines have a combination fuel and vacuum booster pump.

As I recall, that was a long time ago, the wipers dropped greatly in speed but did keep going. That was a big improvement over earlier cars where accelerating would drop the wiper speed to zero. I learned to drop into a lower gear to increase engine revs to accelerate just to keep wipers going because that would maintain some
vacuum in the intake manifold.

fintail

I see that now. There are quite a few odd wiper videos on youtube, some on older cars where they randomly stop. Might be one of those reversible driveability upgrades (like electronic ignition) that one might want to make the car more usable.

imidazol97 said:

I looked it up on the new car brochures. It says all engines have a combination fuel and vacuum booster pump.

As I recall, that was a long time ago, the wipers dropped greatly in speed but did keep going. That was a big improvement over earlier cars where accelerating would drop the wiper speed to zero. I learned to drop into a lower gear to increase engine revs to accelerate just to keep wipers going because that would maintain some
vacuum in the intake manifold.

texases

They did one of those upgrades last night on Fantomworks. The '67 Cougar's headlight covers wouldn't operate with the low idle vacuum of the performance engine, so the ripped all that out and put in electric motors. Worked like a charm!

berri

Our 60 Ford was a pretty basic Fairlane with 3 on the tree and not many options. My dad bought it used. I remember a tube radio and believe it or not, back up lights. Little round ones if I remember right. The vacuum wipers would definitely slow down noticeably, but a buddy's mom had a Rambler that seemed to slow down even more. Rust was a huge killer on the 60 Ford, particularly the rocker panels. I had a used 63 Olds in college, but sure can't recall whether it had back up lights or not. The again, can't remember lots from those days

kyfdx

A/C? I didn't get my first car with A/C until 1990 (at age 32), and that was an '84 Porsche 911 with two little pitiful vents in the center dash that couldn't cool a hamster cage.

And yet, when I was a kid, we had a big window unit that just about cooled our whole 3-BR ranch house, when almost none of my friend's houses had A/C. (in the '60s)

Michaell

kyfdx said:

A/C? I didn't get my first car with A/C until 1990 (at age 32), and that was an '84 Porsche 911 with two little pitiful vents in the center dash that couldn't cool a hamster cage.

And yet, when I was a kid, we had a big window unit that just about cooled our whole 3-BR ranch house, when almost none of my friend's houses had A/C. (in the '60s)

A/C was not something you saw a lot of in Southern California in 70's cars. I think my mom's '84 Celica was the first car she owned with it (can't remember if the '72 MB 220D did or not).

My '85 Accord was the first car I drove with standard air. Before that, I drove a '79 Sunbird w/o air that I bought in CA but used when I was in college in Phoenix.

texases

I had to add a/c to my '72 Duster when I went to school in Houston. Back then they sold a 'mount and run' kit with all the brackets and pulleys needed. I don't remember where I got the compressor, condenser, evaporator, etc...similar college-related memory issues, I guess...

Michaell

texases said:

I had to add a/c to my '72 Duster when I went to school in Houston. Back then they sold a 'mount and run' kit with all the brackets and pulleys needed. I don't remember where I got the compressor, condenser, evaporator, etc...similar college-related memory issues, I guess...

I ended up getting real sheepskin seat covers for the Sunbird ... IIRC, it would have been $1-2K for an aftermarket A/C system. $300 or so for the covers.

berri

The AC on my 71 Plymouth Sebring broke rather frequently.

ab348

berri said:

The AC on my 71 Plymouth Sebring broke rather frequently.

Factory air? I always thought the Chrysler Airtemp units back in that era could get the car cold enough to hang a side of beef.

berri

When it worked

stickguy

interesting on the same episode of Fantomworks with the Cougar, they spent a fortune retrofitting original factory AC into a 53 Caddy 4 door. I think it ran over $50K just for that. Not sure why you really needed it on a car like that just being used for display and shows most likely, and local driving on nice days.

AC components on that car were the size of a small fridge.

stickguy

my first car with AC was technically my 75 Corolla I had in college, but that didn't actually work so I don't count it. First new car was an 85 Colt. No AC. Wasn't until we got our 86 Mazda 323 that I had a car with actual AC that worked!

and I still managed to beat my parents. They still had their 2nd Omni at that point. No AC in that.

ab348

I generally like FantomWorks but I find they either have the worst resources/processes for finding vintage parts or they intentionally run up the tab for the drama. A friend had a '53 Caddy with factory air here a few years ago with the clear ducts coming out of the parcel shelf. It worked. The whole car was probably worth maybe $15K.

fintail

No factory air in a fintail, all were dealer installed units. I've never seen one in action, but I have seen a couple cars with them. Even though my car is a hot and powerful SE, I don't know if I want to sacrifice the power.

My first car with AC was the W126. Over 10 years old at the time, 150K miles, still worked fine.

stever

I don't recall having AC in my older cars, certainly not in the '74 CJ-5 that had plenty of ventilation even with the soft top snugged up. Didn't need in our Anchorage cars but finally got it in '99 with the Quest. I remember one road trip in the '82 Tercel heading for San Diego one summer. We stopped in Laughlin NV and took in a movie to cool down. Coming out around midnight, the heat radiating from the asphalt was almost unbearable. We pushed on to Cali, driving all night.

texases

Here's a description of it:
"The 1961 Impala bubble top "Double Bubble" Great Eight Winner built by Greening Auto Company. They started out with a 1961 bubble top Impala and added another to the rear to make a way cool Hot Rod Wagon...They debut it at the 2016 Detroit Autorama winning a Great Eight Award"

PF_Flyer

stever said:

I don't recall having AC in my older cars, certainly not in the '74 CJ-5 that had plenty of ventilation even with the soft top snugged up. Didn't need in our Anchorage cars but finally got it in '99 with the Quest. I remember one road trip in the '82 Tercel heading for San Diego one summer. We stopped in Laughlin NV and took in a movie to cool down. Coming out around midnight, the heat radiating from the asphalt was almost unbearable. We pushed on to Cali, driving all night.

I remember the LAST vehicle we had with no AC... it was 1988, the year our first daughter was born. It was a VERY hot summer, and the wife spent a lot of time in the basement telling me we were DEFINITELY getting AC in our next vehicle... and SOON

fintail

On the way in this morning - E36 M3. Going ~50 in a 35, weaving around traffic, revving the engine - and getting one car length in front of a slowpoke Highlander (what a surprise). In the rain, and dark. In other words, the perfect stereotype

sda

First car I owned with a/c was my '76 Sunbird that I purchased in 9/78. The '63 Olds was the first car that our family had with a/c. One thing I don't miss is having to refresh the charge on the a/c system each year. Current cars have really tight systems and don't require that annual refill.

fintail

Thinking back, my uncle had an early run 86 Taurus - a lowline "L" model that appeared to have no options other than AM/FM radio and a 3.0 V6. Plastic hubcaps, base cloth, manual windows and locks, etc - but that actually made it seem really modern to my young eyes, it was kind of "smooth". I am certain this car didn't have AC, seems kind of odd in a car like that now. I can't recall what happened to the car - I remember the transmission went out in 1996 (he had it rebuilt), and I want to say it was stolen not too long after.

I am also certain my dad's Horizon didn't have AC. I remember the Ciera definitely had it (and it was pretty good), along with the Tempo, the system going more lukewarm with time in the latter.

Mr_Shiftright

imidazol97 said:

fintail said:

I remember they would slow upon engine load, but I don't remember them stopping.

I looked it up on the new car brochures. It says all engines have a combination fuel and vacuum booster pump.

As I recall, that was a long time ago, the wipers dropped greatly in speed but did keep going. That was a big improvement over earlier cars where accelerating would drop the wiper speed to zero. I learned to drop into a lower gear to increase engine revs to accelerate just to keep wipers going because that would maintain some
vacuum in the intake manifold.

Isn't that backwards? Acceleration decreases manifold vacuum---oh, maybe you mean downshifting but not pressing the pedal down too hard---kind of like "floating" the throttle?

sda

Mom had an '87 Taurus LX in this exact color and wheels. The LX was the top of the line. Hers had the moonroof and the upgraded stereo. It was a good car which she drove for almost 10 years.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8462/7895102114_5c7be19dfb_z.jpg

texases

Mr_Shiftright said:

imidazol97 said:

fintail said:

I remember they would slow upon engine load, but I don't remember them stopping.

I looked it up on the new car brochures. It says all engines have a combination fuel and vacuum booster pump.

As I recall, that was a long time ago, the wipers dropped greatly in speed but did keep going. That was a big improvement over earlier cars where accelerating would drop the wiper speed to zero. I learned to drop into a lower gear to increase engine revs to accelerate just to keep wipers going because that would maintain some
vacuum in the intake manifold.

Isn't that backwards? Acceleration decreases manifold vacuum---oh, maybe you mean downshifting but not pressing the pedal down too hard---kind of like "floating" the throttle?

At a given speed going to a lower gear would increase rpms, decrease throttle opening, and increase vacuum, right? Not while accelerating, but at constant speed...

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, that's right...at a constant speed with light throttle opening. The minute you mash the pedal, vacuum drops.

You still see this effect somewhat on modern cars that have vacuum operated blend doors for the HVAC. If there's a leak in the line or in the actuator, when you step on the gas the heat range changes or the direction changes. Pretty funny.

On older Mercedes diesels, a vacuum leak used to result in being unable to shut the engine off, as vacuum was used to cut fuel supply. I used to rather enjoy seeing some owners freak out when this happened. (you can shut it off by opening the engine compartment and flipping the switch by hand, or if that fails, just stuff a rag against the air filter plenum.

ab348

Mr_Shiftright said:

On older Mercedes diesels, a vacuum leak used to result in being unable to shut the engine off, as vacuum was used to cut fuel supply. I used to rather enjoy seeing some owners freak out when this happened. (you can shut it off by opening the engine compartment and flipping the switch by hand, or if that fails, just stuff a rag against the air filter plenum.

Makes the "dieseling" we used to experience on early emission-controlled engines seem quite tame by comparison.

Mr_Shiftright

Diesels can even run backwards---the tail pipe become air intake and the intake plenum becomes the exhaust.

Diesels can also "runaway", as you probably know--you can see this phenomenon on YouTube if you've never witnessed it.

fintail

I remember my friend's 83 Monte Carlo would run on/diesel if you turned it off with the AC on. It was a great time to use Clark Griswold's line "all new cars do that"

texases

"klank-klank, klank-klank, klank-klank, shhhhhhh...." was the noise I remember.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, you can to put it in gear to stop it. Some folks mistakenly called it "pre-ignition" but actually it was "post-ignition". I guess carbon buildup in the combustion chambers got so hot it would act like a spark plug.

uplanderguy

Anybody go to Hershey last week? I did, W-F--rainy Sat. morning so came home. Still un-freaking-believable.

In the Car Corral, I saw two '58 Eldorado Broughams. 304 built, and two for sale in the same place 58 years later. One was $87K; the other $125K. One white, one black.

My favorite cars for sale: A rosemist (don't know what Ford called it) '63 Galaxie 500 XL squareroof (my term, not theirs--not the fastback '63 1/2) two-door hardtop. Matching interior; 390, 4-speed. I'm normally much-more a fan of the fastback, but something about this car just grabbed me.

I also liked a Bermuda Brown '64 Studebaker Commander four-door sedan, six, 3-speed, no radio, 21.9K miles, perfect interior, sounded great when started, closest-to-NOS-Stude outside of the Studebaker National Museum '64 with 28 miles, there probably is out there. A real plain-jane but the car has also been gone over by the seller, a longtime Stude guy. Probably a good car for a guy like me; wish it were a nicer model. Started out at $7K and came down to $5,500. A turnkey car.

For andre, there was an early eighties Imperial limo, supposedly one of three. I can't remember what the asking price was. It was not perfect.

fintail

Stude sounds like a bargain. I call the Galaxie a notchback.

Those Imperial limos are instantly memorable for those of us who were kids in the 80s:

js06gv

fintail said:

Stude sounds like a bargain. I call the Galaxie a notchback.

Those Imperial limos are instantly memorable for those of us who were kids in the 80s:

Great movie!!

berri

IIRC those Imperial limo bodies came from Ghia in Italy. Always thought they looked sharp, but don't ever recall any used in the military. The top brass road in Galaxies or something similar.

iluvmysephia1

Was the Studebaker a 3-speed on the steering column or floor? Or pushbutton? That one sounds like a deal, probably no A/C, though.

stever

Saw an original MINI last night. They are still tiny....

uplanderguy

The Stude was a 3-speed on the column. I could not see that it had one single option!

It wasn't perfect outside--some scratches and a ding here or there--probably a function of who I assume would've been it's old-timer original owner--but I hadn't seen as clean of one outside of a museum in...decades.

iluvmysephia1

The Stude would be a great deal, then. One could do a slow restore on it but I would drive it a decent amount, too, along with the Kia Soul. 

sda

A white 1958 Impala 2dr hardtop. Looked nice and original. The '58s, from GM and Ford are not my favorites. The Chevy looks fat and frumpy compared to the '55-57.

bhill2

sda said:

A white 1958 Impala 2dr hardtop. Looked nice and original. The '58s, from GM and Ford are not my favorites. The Chevy looks fat and frumpy compared to the '55-57.

Yeah, just after the '59s came out my parents decided our VW was too small for our growing (in height) family so he visited the local Chevrolet dealer. He got a "great deal" on a left over '58. My ten year old self wanted to kill him.

berri

The 58 Chevy wagon was kind of neat, but yeah, the 59 was Sputnik baby and every kid wants what's new!

uplanderguy

Not the place for the discussion, but tied into my trip to Hershey was that I rented a new Chrysler Pacifica for the trip and have put 800 miles on it (it had 1,000 when I rented it and I rented it for a week). I reserved a subcompact just to not flog my old Cobalt 5-speed all the way out there, with 70 miles round-trip each day just to and from the hotel, and the constant stop-and-go of Hershey and Harrisburg traffic, not to mention driving 1/3 mile or so across grass to park out there. Enterprise only had vans when I got there so I asked which had the least mileage and I'd take it. I got the subcompact rate I had reserved.

It was comfortable for sure. I took one other guy with me. But it already had a creaking sound near the liftgate and twice in the trip, when pulling away from a stop, there was a slight delay and a slight 'bump' when the vehicle went into gear.

Shifting the automatic trans utilized a round knob on the dash. I thought that was weird.

But the vehicle looked substantial, in and out.

uplanderguy

RE.: '58 Chevys--there were several in the car corral at Hershey; my friend even commented he was surprised to see so many for sale there...all Impalas but one, a Cay Coral (pink) '58 Biscayne 4-door sedan, six, with 22K miles. Priced on the windshield at $23.5K--insane, but a really nice, original car.

omarman

uplanderguy said:

RE.: '58 Chevys--there were several in the car corral at Hershey; my friend even commented he was surprised to see so many for sale there...all Impalas but one, a Cay Coral (pink) '58 Biscayne 4-door sedan, six, with 22K miles. Priced on the windshield at $23.5K--insane, but a really nice, original car.

That '58 Biscayne sounds like this one posted online by a dealer.
Interesting inventory there and seller also has a 1963 Studebaker Avanti R1 with turquoise paint and interior. No idea if that's all original but looks pretty nice.

uplanderguy

That is indeed that very '58 Biscayne!

I really like turquoise Avantis. That one has a couple authenticity issues (to me, anyway) at first glance--steering wheel, of course, and the door panels have been reupholstered not in the correct pattern. Looks like a nice car but high, like the Biscayne.

This is just me, but on Avantis my eyes go right to the front fender. I like seeing a 'supercharged' emblem there, LOL. To me, the car looks bare without an emblem there, like the supercharged cars had.