I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

andre1969

Wow, here's something weird. If I go to googlemaps.com and look up "Crownsville MD" almost the same shot that I took shows up. To pull a line from "Smokey and the Bandit", I guess there's nothing to do around here, but sit around and watch the cars rust!

Another picture shows up lower to the side, of an uprooted tree with a bike in the foreground. Sadly, I know where that is, as well. We've got some big-time entertainment out in these parts!

Also, I know this is hardly a scientific look into vehicle quality, but whenever I've come back here, I always thought it was interesting at how well the Studebaker seems to have held up, whereas the others are much more deteriorated. You can tell people have been jumping up and down on the roofs of all of them, over the years. The two '55-56 Mercurys are hardtops, so naturally, not as sturdy. Plus those Poplar trees look like they crunched the yellow one in, some. Odd, as I always thought a tree would grow around a car, moreso than crush it like that. The '56 Chevy was a 2-door sedan, as well, so I would have thought it would've been sturdier.

Also, in the past I used to think these cars were pushed down in the ravine, but now, I wonder if they were just discarded there, at the edge, and then over the years the ravine eroded and got larger, and they fell into it?

Can anyone identify the carcass that's upside-down, on top of the '57 Plymouth? From what little remains of it, I'd guess a '46-48 something or other. The only thing I can see that might identify it is a square-ish turn signal under the headlight. And maybe the bumper guard?

texases

You need to post those over on the 'project car' page, sure someone would be interested in a 'fixer upper'!

uplanderguy

That Studebaker is of the '47-52 style. That's a lot of model years, and the '50 was the best-selling (units) Studebaker ever. I think they were sturdy. In almost any fifties or early sixties period photo I see, there's at least one of them in there.

As you know I love a good many '53 and later Studebakers, but there is no way one of those newer ones would've held up as it appears the one in your pic did! I think sheetmetal of all makes got thinner with the stylishness of, probably, '55 and newer cars for most manufacturers, with longevity being compromised. Sort of like seeing fewer nice, original '73 Chevy and GMC pickups than '67-72 models.

andre1969

When I used to go junkyarding, I noticed you could see a definite progression with Mopars throughout the 50's. The '49-54 generation were almost tank-like. They'd often look so solid that you could almost put back the missing parts and drive them out of there. In fact, the '53 DeSoto that my Granddad got some parts off of, in 1978, actually had been driveable. The guy who owned the junkyard said that it came in, in 1961. Someone just didn't want it anymore, and couldn't find a buyer, or anyone to even take it. So he sold it to the junkyard. It sat for awhile, in the front part of the junkyard, but then the owner bought up some land in back and expanded it. He was able to start the DeSoto, and drive it back there, to its final resting spot. Now, I don't know how long it had been sitting, from 1961 to when it was moved. But, in '78 it was still solid enough to have all the parts my Granddad needed.

I went down there a number of times, from '92-97, and it was still there, and still looked remarkably solid. There were a number of similar-vintage Mopars, and they all looked pretty solid. The '55-56 models, in comparison, hadn't held up nearly as well. And the '57-59 models? Well, that's where the phrase "Mostly Old Parts And Rust" was most likely coined!

I remember seeing a '58 DeSoto Firedome hardtop coupe next to a '51-52 2-door sedan. In those days, it was actually common to send a car to the junkyard with its license plate still on it, and I seem to remember that '51-52 had a 1961 license plate on the front. It still looked pretty solid, overall. In contrast, the '58 was actually collapsing in the rear, and slowly flattening out. The '58 also had no engine in it, so apparently someone did see value in that 361 Wedge. As I recall, it didn't have a bumper/grille on it either, and I was only able to identify it as a '58 and not a '57, because what was left of the interior was different from my '57, as well as the two-toning.

They had a number of '60-64 era Mopars as well, and interestingly, they were in fairly good condition. So perhaps those unitized models actually WERE built better!

I'd love to go back to that junkyard sometime and do some exploring, but around 1994, the owner started running into money problems, and started crushing cars. I've looked at it from aerial photographs on google maps, and it looks like it's been emptied out, considerably.

uplanderguy

I have a similar story. I bought some mostly-trim parts for my first '63 Studebaker Lark in a junkyard about 18 miles from my original hometown. Someone had told me about it. He had about a dozen Larks, '59 to '66, in one spot. I got a tinted windshield for my hardtop out of a '63 Cruiser there (my wife actually helped me, back when she did that kind of thing, LOL). I also found two excellent red '63 armrests which I paid a buck each for there, which I couldn't find in South Bend or Hershey. Eccentric junkyard owner's response? "Should've tried here first". He, too, ended up crushing the cars and selling the land. I remember he had a '57 Packardbaker wagon there, and a '53 Packard Caribbean too.

fintail

On the road in the rain this afternoon: Kizashi, 75-79 Town Car variant (no opera window)

uplanderguy

Saw this on barnfinds. Have to say, rarely-seen then or now and that's usually a plus for me. Of the three, I always thought the Olds was the best-looking. Seems they promoted the '86 Toronado in navy blue with silver rockers, blackwalls and lacy aluminum wheels you'd also see on FWD Ninety-Eights.

I like the interior on this one.

At the time, I was horrified when I looked at my first new '86 Riviera and Eldorado. But I'd take a Toronado like this.

In the Eldorado I liked the slightly-longer ones (I think maybe '90 and '91), but I don't like the longer Toronados/Trofeos.

https://barnfinds.com/39k-miles-1986-oldsmobile-toronado/?fbclid=IwAR3TfTCNuOtewW1LR6zpTwpaqM3LCW8G0wvDytNfhoWj0GV043nwrBlKkrA

ab348

All of those double-downsized models marked the start of GM spiraling down in the Roger Smith era. It was their bridge too far.

uplanderguy

I like the interior on that Toronado. Kind of a blend of American lux and what was thought of as 'new wave'. I still prefer that interior to what the foreign makers were doing. But I agree, the downsizing was realllly severe.

tjc78

ab348 said:

All of those double-downsized models marked the start of GM spiraling down in the Roger Smith era. It was their bridge too far.

Some of them were good cars, weren’t they? The Buick LeSabre of the era for one. Not sure I would have bought one of those over a Panther, but most likely over anything K-car based on the Chrysler side.

uplanderguy

I like the LeSabre coupes of the late eighties/early nineties. I like the four small headlights, but the transmissions I think were better, later.

I also like the looks of those late eighties Ninety-Eights...nice size/packaging.

texases

I think the bulletproof 3800 V6 contributed to those car's longevity.

ab348

tjc78 said:

ab348 said:

All of those double-downsized models marked the start of GM spiraling down in the Roger Smith era. It was their bridge too far.

Some of them were good cars, weren’t they? The Buick LeSabre of the era for one. Not sure I would have bought one of those over a Panther, but most likely over anything K-car based on the Chrysler side.

I'm talking about the E-body personal luxury coupes only. The LeSabre is a totally different platform.

tjc78

ab348 said:

tjc78 said:

ab348 said:

All of those double-downsized models marked the start of GM spiraling down in the Roger Smith era. It was their bridge too far.

Some of them were good cars, weren’t they? The Buick LeSabre of the era for one. Not sure I would have bought one of those over a Panther, but most likely over anything K-car based on the Chrysler side.

I'm talking about the E-body personal luxury coupes only. The LeSabre is a totally different platform.

Ahh OK, misunderstood your comment.

fintail

One of the Youtuber car flippers/hoarders I follow recently bought one of those Toros (beware occasionally coarse language) - not as nice as that one, but a lot cheaper.

uplanderguy

My best man (we don't get together anymore, LOL) had that very-common 'briar mist' I think it was called, '84 Riviera. He later got a black with silver top and interior, '88 Riviera...both had been bought by him used. I gave him no end of grief about the '88, but he said he much-preferred driving it to the '84, and also claimed he put less money into the '88 over the years. His '84 had mileage in the six-digits though, and I'm not sure the '88 was owned by him for as many miles.

One thing about the '88 that struck me as cool was that the leather seats had bolsters of suede.

andre1969

One "second wave" downsized car I've always liked the looks of is the '86 LeSabre. I thought it looked really good with the inset headlights, that give it a slightly aggressive, sporty stance And the coupe roof, with the large, triangular rear windows, made me think of the '77-79 style, before they went formal and a bit "mock-personal luxury coupe" with the more upright '80-85 style.

I didn't care for the '87 look, with the composite headlights, as much, but it still fairly attractive. My understanding is that the 3.8 V6 in these cars was definitely one of their stronger suits. The 3.8 was redesigned for '85, when all iterations of it started using the stronger turbo block. The '75-84 version was more fragile, and also had a lot of narrow oil passages with right angles, just begging to clog up over time. The weak spot was the 4-speed transaxle, although I think GM got it mostly sorted out by around '87 or '88.

One thing I've wondered, if someone had, say, an '86 LeSabre, and the transaxle went bad, and they had it rebuilt, would the rebuilt one be to updated, improved specifications, or would it be the same 1986-quality unit? I'd imagine most people would just junk an '86 LeSabre at that point, though.

My ex-wife's mother had an '87 LeSabre sedan. I think she bought it new. It would have the occasional repair here and there, but I don't think it was bad, overall. She passed away in the early 2000's, and I think she still had it, but I don't know what became of it after that.

With the shrunken '86 E-bodies, I think the Toronado is kind of sharp, with its hidden headlights. It was probably more in line of the '66 vision of the Toronado, than what the '79-85 version had been. And, all three versions of the E-body, plus GM's own "K" car, the Seville, were actually pretty nice inside. They were just too diminutive, for that type of buyer. A Seville was probably sized in between a BMW 5- and 7-series, and more competitive with either than any Cadillac before had been. Only problem is, nobody cross-shopped the two.

uplanderguy

You and I agree on those LeSabre coupes, andre. I didn't remember that the '86 was the only year with the four square headlights. I never liked whatever year the taillight red lenses became larger and not outlined in bright 'chrome'.

A small thing, but I liked the way the hoods opened on those cars too.

My wife's grandfather had a white LeSabre Limited sedan of that era, composite headlamps. His family wanted him to stop driving--he lived in an assisted-living place. The car did need a few things--this is in about 2007 or so. His son had the Dad's mechanic call and give an inflated price for what the car needed, and the son told the Dad, "Let's just sell the car". The Dad was 98 or so at this time. In fact, I believe they donated the car to one of those places that comes and gets it. My wife's grandfather told us, "I couldn't look when they took it away". He lived to be 101 in Rochester, NY and was sharp to his last day.

andre1969

In the early 90's, I worked with a woman who had an FWD Cutlass Supreme coupe. I forget which engine it had, but it was the style with the "6-headlight" look. Can't remember if it was the Quad 4 or the DOHC 3.4 V6, but I do remember it was a higher performance model. Her husband had an '86 88 coupe, in black, with alloy rims. While the 88 seemed a bit more conservative than the LeSabre, in all black it was still a pretty sharp looking car. Alas, it was dead in their driveway. I forget now what the ailment was, but this was around 1993. I think the Cutlass gave them some trouble as well, and she traded it on a '93 Altima.

Now that I think about it, one of my grandmother's cousin's old lady friends traded a '75-76 Olds Ninety-Eight coupe on one of those shrunken Ninety-Eights. I think it was an '85 or '86, but memory's getting fuzzy. I think it still had quad headlights, and not composites. I remember the first time I saw that land barge she had though. I said that I'd LOVE that car if she ever wanted to sell it. She said something like "Sweetie, you don't really want a car that big, do you?" I think I shook my head "yes" so fast it's a miracle I didn't get a neck injury!

I found out too, that she only got $500 in trade for it. That really felt like a kick in the sides! But, I was just a teenager, and there is no way my Mom and stepdad would have ever let me bring something like that home. I don't know how well that shrunken model held up, but I saw her in the mid 90's, and she still had it. Of course, old people usually aren't too rough on cars. Unless they forget to keep up with maintenance, and bump into things!

uplanderguy

I wonder how the '93 Altima was. Seems like I've heard Nissans weren't known for necessarily being bulletproof themselves.

I'm old-skool of course, but I wouldn't buy a car I didn't really like just because it's supposedly bulletproof. I wouldn't want to give up styling in the vein I liked, room, quiet, etc. Since everybody here is interested in cars beyond regular folk, we all would feel somewhat similarly although with different tastes of course. I feel I've had excellent service out of my Chevys with slightly-more-often-than-owner's manual-recommended maintenance. I'd do that on any car I owned though.

I drove everything in rental cars, and I was usually 'meh' by something I'd read constant raves about, LOL. I also had cars that were reputedly top-notch that had rattles and warning lights on.

uplanderguy

My best boyhood friend lives a couple hours away with his wife (no kids). They always kid that every car they've had and liked, end up being discontinued. Early nineties Cutlass Supreme, followed by Grand Prix, followed by 2015 and 2018....Impalas, LOL.

andre1969

I got transferred to a different department soon after my coworker bought that Altima, so I don't know how well it held up, long term. I've heard different stories about Nissans in those days. Some people would swear they were the best Nissans ever built, but others would say they were total crap. For some reason, I seem to recall '89-94 Maximas having a good deal of engine troubles, and Stanzas having engine and transmission issues.

My Mom and stepdad bought a '91 Stanza, and its transmission started to act up around 90,000 miles. It also had exhaust issues by then. Still, I think they limped it to around 110,000, and sold it. Their '99 Altima crapped out its transmission at 30,000 miles, but it was replaced under warranty, and the car was fairly reliable until they sold it, with about 330,000 miles on it. They offered to give me the '99, but I never really cared for it. The styling and proportioning just seemed off, and I found it to be uncomfortable. The seats were small, not very supportive, and the driving position was a bit cramped for my tastes.

I've heard anecdotal evidence that the 2nd-gen Xterra wasn't as reliable as the first. My house mate had an '06, and it was pretty reliable for awhile, but towards the end got expensive. It needed a new radiator in 2018, and then in early 2019 the transmission went downhill fast, and it needed some expensive exhaust work. But, it also had about 185,000 miles on it.

I know the plural of "anecdote" is not "data", but I always found it amusing that my Mom and stepdad's '84 Tempo was more reliable than the '91 Stanza that replaced it!

uplanderguy

When you have first-hand knowledge, or even second-hand, that differs from, ahem, "data", I think it's natural to believe that. My coworker's same-year Odyssey minivan crapped its transmission at about 70K IIRC, and Honda's offer was that it cost him $1,800. My Chevy van kept on, keepin' on long after that. "Anecdotal" I know--I'll save someone else from telling me that.

Said it before, but I think years have a way of making people's memories of certain things become better, or worse, than they were. That usually results in the story becoming more entertaining or interesting. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle. My two cents only; change gladly given.

tjc78

Odyssey’s blew transmissions... no doubt about that. Heck any Honda with a V6 back then could have had issues.

I knew a guy with an Odyssey that was on tranny #3. Two warranty and one OOP.

uplanderguy

This was a 2005, which I think is after the widely-known trans problems on earlier models. I could be wrong about that though, although I am certain it was a 2005.

uplanderguy

andre, re.: the Xterra--I haven't really heard anything bad about them (don't know anyone who owned one) but the gen that seems to just have random lumps here and there (tailgate, for example), was always a total first-impression turn-off to me, LOL.

tjc78

Whenever I think of the Xterra I think of this scene.

WARNING... R rated. NSFW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF1RXJoiG44

roadburner

My wife almost bought a new Xterra OFF Road in 2005; my wife really liked it but the sales manager screwed the deal, and she bought a CPO 2004 X3 2.5, which she kept for almost 13 years and 198k miles.
Still, I like my TJ better, and politically I need at least one US vehicle in my garage.

andre1969

That must be a one-off, concept Xterra. It has the interior of the second-gen, and the exterior of the first

BTW, I've always found it amusing that too much cursing or sex gets you a guaranteed R-rating, but you can be as violent as you want, even explicit, and nobody seems to care. I read, somewhere, that when "Christine" came out, it actually set a record for the amount of times the F-word was used in a movie. That record didn't stand for long though, as "Scarface" came out soon after!

Supposedly, "Christine" wasn't extreme enough to warrant an "R" rating on its own merit, and it needed that "R" rating to get some street cred as a horror movie. So, they inserted as many curse words as possible into the dialogue, to get it to pass! Although the novel it was based on was pretty mouthy. But, in retrospect, most of the death in it wasn't that explicitly graphic.

Something I thought of the other day, when I saw that '57 Plymouth down in the ravine. If Christine had gotten trapped in a pit, could she have gotten herself out? When you think about it, other than driving by herself, and being able to regenerate, Christine didn't really do anything "supernatural" In the novel, there was a part where they touched on the pit idea. The old guy who owned the garage, who was simply squeezed to death between the steering wheel and the seat, had a different death in the novel. In the novel, Christine paid him a visit at home. Crashed into his house. He scrambled up to the top of the stairs, and as the car came into the house, he could hear the floor starting to creak and groan under the car's weight, and thought to himself "Yes, YES! Break, and throw the damn thing into the basement!" Or something like that. But, he got to the top of the stairs, and I think his heart gave out and he fell back down and Christine got him.

The things you think of, when you have too much time on your hands. Now, off to watch "The Concorde: Airport '79"

BTW, there was a bad sequel to 1977's "The Car" released recently, where the title vehicle did get trapped in a pit, and couldn't get out. But, that wasn't the end of the story. I don't want to give away any spoilers, on the off chance anyone wants to see it, but let's just say that George Barris front-end does not mate that well to a Chrysler 300C.

xwesx

tjc78 said:

Whenever I think of the Xterra I think of this scene.

Hahaha! "You're not getting another one."

"Well, actually, that's good. It will force me to take the bus. We need to break our dependence on foreign oil."

stunned silence

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

andre, re.: the Xterra--I haven't really heard anything bad about them (don't know anyone who owned one) but the gen that seems to just have random lumps here and there (tailgate, for example), was always a total first-impression turn-off to me, LOL.

Both generations actually had that bump on the tailgate, but the second-gen was more squared off, and had a beefier stance, in general. Supposedly, with that second generation, the Xterra, Pathfinder, Frontier, Armada, and Titan were all based on the same basic platform. The main difference was that the bodies of the larger models just hung out over the frame rails more, and the parts required to make a wider front and rear track were changed. That made the smaller models more rugged than you might normally expect, but then the durability of the larger models was sacrificed a bit. At least, that's what I've heard.

The only model that still uses that old design is the Frontier pickup. I wonder how much longer they'll continue making it? The Xterra was dropped, ostensibly replaced by the Rogue, I guess. But, my housemate didn't fall for that. I even told him that, after getting used to the Xterra's power, he'd probably hate the Rogue. So, he ended up getting a used '17 Murano. The Pathfinder went unitized, and in my opinion suffers from a bit of that same slightly "minivan-esque" proportioning that the original Equinox had. The Titan and Armada were redesigned not that long ago, and I'd presume, at least, that they're all-new, frame and all?

andre1969

xwesx said:

tjc78 said:

Whenever I think of the Xterra I think of this scene.

Hahaha! "You're not getting another one."

"Well, actually, that's good. It will force me to take the bus. We need to break our dependence on foreign oil."

stunned silence

Yeah, I caught that, too! Perhaps, a cautionary warning about what 2020 would bring? After all, we're not exactly dependent on foreign oil at the moment...

fintail

The current Pathfinder is as much a Pathfinder as the current Eclipse as an Eclipse. Way to ruin vaunted 90s model names, guys. Everything becomes an awkward CUV minivan.

stickguy

New frontier due out next year!

Michaell

How does NSFW work when we are all working from home now?

roadburner

We had a 1993 Pathfider SE with the Off Road package- cockpit adjustable shocks, limited slip, and heated seats(!). We loved it and would probably have another if the Pathfinder was still a small, nimble SUV with true off road capability.

tjc78

Michaell said:

How does NSFW work when we are all working from home now?

Ha! I didn't even think of that when I posted it, but true!

fintail

Saw an XLR-V on the road today.

kyfdx

Member looking for opinions:
https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/61010/ford/f-150/1976-ford-f150-ranger/p1?new=1

tjc78

fintail said:

Saw an XLR-V on the road today.

That's one vehicle I never understood. Why did Caddy need a variant of the Corvette?

The owner of our local bakery had one for a long time. Recently when passing the place I noticed a newer Vette parked outside.

imidazol97

tjc78 said:

That's one vehicle I never understood. Why did Caddy need a variant of the Corvette.

To lower the average age of the Cadillac brand buyer? I don't know that it worked...

tjc78

I don't think it did... plus it's not like Corvettes are bought by really young people either

roadburner

tjc78 said:

That's one vehicle I never understood. Why did Caddy need a variant of the Corvette?

The owner of our local bakery had one for a long time. Recently when passing the place I noticed a newer Vette parked outside.

So balding guys with gold chains and a trophy hooker wife can one-up their less well-to-do buddies.

uplanderguy

I haven't seen that demographic in Corvettes where I live, for thirty years. Almost always older couples in them. I think the typical "wanted one when I was younger and couldn't afford it and now I can" thing going on.

I did know one guy who bought the XLR new. He was early fifties, owned his own business, married, not your stereotype but I will say we didn't like him--he was extended family, LOL.

I do, however, see moussed-up, slim, forty-somethings driving outside their skill level in BMW's here though.

Speaking of Corvettes for a minute, I just yesterday saw this first review (for me) of the $60K base C8. Seems pretty tasty to me from this. I like the non-black wheels and no spoiler.

https://www.cars.com/articles/2020-chevrolet-corvette-test-drive-video-all-about-that-base-model-419210/

roadburner

Moussed and slim beats balding and fat.

andre1969

tjc78 said:

fintail said:

Saw an XLR-V on the road today.

That's one vehicle I never understood. Why did Caddy need a variant of the Corvette?

The owner of our local bakery had one for a long time. Recently when passing the place I noticed a newer Vette parked outside.

To give Stifler's Mom a domestic alternative to that Benz she was driving?

uplanderguy

Moussed and slim beats balding and fat.

Apparently a nerve has been touched! LOL

roadburner

Sorry, didn't know you found balding and fat to be a complement.
My sincerest apologies. Now if you'll excuse me, a friend put me on to a DB7.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

Moussed and slim beats balding and fat.

Apparently a nerve has been touched! LOL

And when the moussed set has their hair fall out and they add a bunch of pounds in their advancing years, they will still be driving whatever BMW is offering at the time while the next generation of poseurs is in whatever the current hot ride has become. The circle of driving life...

andre1969

speaking of balding and fat, my grandmother's cousin's (it's hard to call it this at that age, but here goes...) ...boyfriend, had an Allante back when they were new. He was fat and balding. In fact, he ended up getting rid of the Allante after a few weeks, maybe a month or two, because it was too hard for him to get in and out of! He was pretty well-moneyed though, he could afford to turn cars around like that. The last car I remember him having, before he died, was a black 2000-2005 DeVille. I think he died in 2002, so it would've been pretty new.

Even though the XLR wasn't really needed, I thought it was fairly attractive. One of the better versions of that "Art & Science" styling fad that I didn't really care for, in general. And, I guess GM did feel they still needed a halo car to go up against Benz.