I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

andre1969

Is this the stock rally wheel that Olds used on the big cars?


I don't think I've ever seen one, in person. All the '71-76 Deltas and Ninety-Eights that I've ever seen only had hubcaps, unless something non-stock was put on. Now with the downsized '77+ models, I've seen an occasional Delta 88 with the Rally style that was more commonly associated with the Cutlass, although the center cap was always enlarged, so that it would cover the lug nuts.

Seems like only Pontiac and Buick made common use of their Rally wheels on the big cars...both the '71-76 and the downsized models. And then, at some point, Buick started using a newer style, that was only offered on the Electra and wagons, but not the LeSabre sedan/coupe. I was told that was because the downsized C-body and wagons used the bigger 5 on 5 bolt pattern, while B-body coupes and sedans used the 4.75 on 5.

Here's that newer style I'm thinking of, on a wagon...


I think I've seen it offered on Custom Cruisers as well, just with the center cap sporting the Olds rocket logo rather than the Buick tri-shield.

I wonder when the last year was for the Pontiac Rally 2 rims? I know I've seen Parisiennes and Safari wagons and Grand Prixes with them, but don't think I've ever seen a Bonneville G with them.

ab348

Yes, those Olds big-car 5x5" pattern wheels were called "Polycast" and were available on that '71-'72 big car lineup. All you want to know about them here:

https://oldsjunction.classicoldsmobile.com/ssiv.html

ab348

Other info about big-car wheels: after they were downsized for '77, the B-body cars went to a 5x4.75" wheel bolt pattern, the same as the A-bodies. But the C-bodies (Olds 98, Buick Electra) and their respective wagons kept a 5x5" wheel bolt pattern. So the SS wheel you saw on Olds 88 coupes and sedans from '77 onward were similar to the ones on intermediates except for that different center cap you mentioned. Later in the model run in the '80s they came up with those cast alloy wheels you pictured for the Buick and Olds wagons, which were the 5x5" pattern.

omarman

My old '72 Delta 88 coupe had the polycast wheels and like the link stated the plastic material was pliable and still durable. Eventually the paint was getting thin and some rust began showing up on the body but at 10 y/o the wheels still looked good.

imidazol97

I remember this wheel (D) on the "full-sized" Olds in 77 when I was shopping for my Cutlass.
I remember thinking the color matched wheels for the Cutlass was much better to my eager eye.

stickguy

what barges back in those days. I can't believe people actually chose to navigate those beasts.

fintail

And that's a downsized car.

stickguy

I was referring to the blue with white top 2 door. The red one is not as bad but still far from small.

uplanderguy

Starting with the '77 GM downsized big cars, if you haven't experienced one, you'd be amazed at how totally silent they are. I miss that more than anything. And when equipped with what Chevy called the F-41 suspension (I think Olds called it "FE3"), the mags compared the cornering and such to (gasp) European iron.

andre1969

Believe it or not, there's really not a huge difference in overall length between those two. According to the Automobile Catalog, a '72 Delta 88 is 222.1" long. A '77 is 217.5. So, 4.6", which is almost nothing when you get to cars of this size. But, that '77 has protruding 5 mph bumpers, while the '72's are much more integrated. The '72's length "all car", if that makes sense, whereas the '77's numbers are puffed up by those jutting bumpers. They add length, but not, for lack of a better word "visual bulk".

However, once bumper standards were enacted for both front and rear, those big cars did put on some length. A '76 Delta 88 was 226.7" long.

That '72 is also more low-slung than the downsized model, and has a smaller ratio of passenger cabin : rest of the car. So I think that proportioning makes it look bigger than it really is.

uplanderguy

I think even with the wheelbases the same (on the '77's and newer), Chevys I think tended to have the tightest exterior dimensions, whether one considers that to be a plus or a negative.

tjc78

uplanderguy said:

Starting with the '77 GM downsized big cars, if you haven't experienced one, you'd be amazed at how totally silent they are. I miss that more than anything. And when equipped with what Chevy called the F-41 suspension (I think Olds called it "FE3"), the mags compared the cornering and such to (gasp) European iron.

When I had my 89 Grand Marquis I looked at an 85 LeSabre two door. It was a quiet beast for sure, but that 307 while super smooth felt gutless. My MGM felt noticeably faster.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

I think even with the wheelbases the same (on the '77's and newer), Chevys I think tended to have the tightest exterior dimensions, whether one considers that to be a plus or a negative.

I think the Chevies tended to be around 212" overall. Catalinas and Bonnevilles were something like 214" but the Parisenne was the same as the Chevies. Delta 88s and LeSabres tended to be around 218" for most of their downsized run. I think most, if not all of the added length was up front. The Catalina/Bonneville look to me like they have a bit more of a "beak" than the Chevies, so that might have accounted for it there. And I think the LeSabre and Delta 88 just had longer header panels, and corresponding longer shock absorbers, to move the bumper out further from the frame.

andre1969

Check out what Derwood is driving today, on "Bewitched"...


Oddly, this was a '70-71 season episode, in fact, one of the later episodes. So you'd think they would have put in a '71 Chevy, instead of a '70. Still, a good looking car, and I'm loving that color!

Another little note of interest...the license plate looks like it says "New York" on it. I'd always presumed they lived in Connecticut and Darrin commuted to NYC, although considering how often Darrin came home from the office, and Larry and various clients stopped by, it seems like there wasn't much of a commute. I also googled it, and apparently there were some inconsistencies in the show, where both Westport CT and Patterson NY were mentioned.

uplanderguy

Before I even read your comment, I thought, "What a great color", LOL.

Weird observation (that I've had for years)--the '70 and '74 full-size Chevy wheelcovers are the same cover.

Agnes Moorehead I think had said that she tired of playing the 'Endora' role, but she played it the entire run, and so well. Hard for me to believe she played her Oscar-nominated role as 'Velma' in "Hush...Hush, Sweet Charlotte" at the same time she began playing glamorous Endora.

BTW, I think the original Mrs. Kravitz was hilarious. And Darren #1 was better too. Even my Mom used to say about Darren #2, "he doesn't get mad enough", LOL.

ab348

Is that silver? Somehow it looks better on a car like that than on today's machines. Still, with what looks like a black vinyl interior in a car open to the sun, no thanks!

stickguy

I thought it was teal green of some sort. But agree about black vinyl in a convertible. Ouch.

ab348

Does that Chevy have fender-top turn signal indicators? I only ever saw them on Mopar products of that era and always thought they were a good idea. Never knew GM did them.

uplanderguy

That color is Misty Turquoise, which I remember on a fair amount of '70 Chevys; at least full-and-mid-size models. After Black Cherry, my favorite '70 Chevy color, followed by whatever they called their dark blue metallic that year.

andre1969

It's supposed to be a light greenish blue color, but perhaps looks silver in some lights, and on some monitors. I just checked the Chevy paint chart, and I think it's called "Misty Turquoise Poly"

Here's a Chevelle in Misty Turquoise...



And yeah, a black vinyl interior with a convertible is NOT fun! My '67 Catalina is "Montego Cream", which is similar to the "Butternut" that was common on Chevies, but lighter. Pontiac called that darker cream "Mayfair Maize". But, the interior is black vinyl and it can get pretty bad on hot days. Once you get moving it's not so bad, but if the car's been sitting awhile, it can be pretty brutal.

sda

The cars I've had with black vinyl or leather seats I kept a towel handy to sit on. No unpleasant surprises, ouch, ouch.

kyfdx

My first car was a '70 Galaxie with black vinyl interior, and no A/C

uplanderguy

Does that Chevy have fender-top turn signal indicators? I only ever saw them on Mopar products of that era and always thought they were a good idea. Never knew GM did them.

After work I'll have to look at the brochure, but Chevy didn't do turn sigals there; it was an option and I recall three small lights in each one...I was thinking "Twilight Sentinel" but that was Caddy's name for it. It was a monitor thing of some sort.

andre1969

At some point, I think GM used the term "Vigilante Monitoring System", but that might have been for the fiber optic three-function system. But geez, with a name like that, who was in charge of their marketing department? Paul Kersey?!

"Twilight Sentinel", I believe was the auto on/off for the headlights. I believe it started with Cadillac, but later expanded to other cars. My grandmother's '85 LeSabre had the Twilight Sentinel. It also had the fiber optic fender-mounted light indicator, but I don't think they were calling it "Vigilante Monitoring System" by then.

uplanderguy

Couldn't find it in the '70 brochure, but in the '69 brochure it's called "Light Monitoring System"..."through a space-age system of fiber optics, lights may be monitored from the driver's seat".

Seems to me a lot of those kind of funky options made their way to Chevys in '69--headlight washers, the spray can of liquid tire chain, etc. Not long for the world, LOL

andre1969

My guess is the fender top turn signal things would be pretty much obsolete these days. For one thing, with the way the hoods slope down, you usually can't see the edges of the fender, anyway, and those things would look goofy if they were mounted too far back.

Plus, in all seriousness, you can tell when your headlight is out, or your high beam, the moment you turn your lights on in the dark. And I think most turn signals are "smart" enough these days, that when a bulb burns out, the light on the dash simply comes on and stays on, rather than flashing. Or, something like that. I remember the rear bulb in my '03 Regal burning out a few years ago, and it let me know somehow. Either the indicator on the dash came on and stayed on, or didn't come on at all, or something like that?

I think my Ram is the same way. At least, I do remember the dash indicator doing something that didn't seem "normal", and I figured out the signal filament in the taillight bulb burned out. That was about 4 years ago though, so I can't remember what it did.

It seems like bulbs in general are just something that don't seem to burn out that often, these days. Once upon a time, changing a bulb or headlight seemed like a common occurrence. The last time I remember changing a bulb in a "modern" car, it was my 2000 Intrepid, so that would have to be at least 10 years ago. And I only did it once, during that car's life. So basically, I've gone 20 years of driving, and among the Intrepid, Park Ave, Ram, and Regal, I've only had to change one headlight bulb.

I did have to change a headlight on my '79 5th Ave, back in 2006. It had actually burned out a couple years before, but it was so rare that I drove that car in the dark, I kept forgetting about it. Until the Carlisle Mopar show that year. I would normally stay through Sunday and come home that afternoon, but that year I came back Saturday evening. It was already dusk when I set out for home. I remember Lemko noticing my headlight was out, and drawing it to my attention, and I was like, oh yeah, I forgot all about that...no big deal.

And, sure enough, when I passed through Thurmont Maryland that night, the cops pulled me over!

uplanderguy

Funny about lights. I often see headlights out on cars. And when I do, they are almost always late-model Asian makes. Seriously.

I did have a headlight replaced in our 2011 Malibu. It required pulling the front bumper fascia off. Insane.

Despite probable beliefs to the contrary, I have not replaced a headlight in our 2008 PT Cruiser.

My hugest pet peeve is that every single night I see cars driving with zero lights on. Zero. WTH? When most cars have automatic lights, this is absolutely inexcusable. Hell, even my Cavaliers had automatic lights and daytime running lights.

ab348

The thing I noticed about lights - this was more true about 10 years ago than now - is that Hyundai models of that era were plagued by burned-out or otherwise inoperative lamps. I don't know if it was the bulbs they used from the factory, the sockets, or the wiring. But it was very noticeable. You could always count on seeing a newish Elantra back then with a failed taillight.

uplanderguy

RE.: That '70 Chevelle SS396--what a nice-looking car. I'm typically exhausted of Big Three mid-size muscle/pony cars at shows and cruise-ins--most of them modified with wheels or other things--and I'd also include Novas of the '68-72 period.

BUT... I can surely appreciate a bone-stock-looking original or authentic restoration, in a rather unusual color for the car, like that one!

I liked the four headlights of the '70, but I liked the round taillights of the '71-72 better.

As a twelve-year-old, I thought "Cowl Induction" was cool.

stickguy

Bulbs? I think both my cars now are full LED front and back. Hopefully that means no more bulb replacement ever!

kyfdx

uplanderguy said:

Funny about lights. I often see headlights out on cars. And when I do, they are almost always late-model Asian makes. Seriously.

I did have a headlight replaced in our 2011 Malibu. It required pulling the front bumper fascia off. Insane.

Despite probable beliefs to the contrary, I have not replaced a headlight in our 2008 PT Cruiser.

My hugest pet peeve is that every single night I see cars driving with zero lights on. Zero. WTH? When most cars have automatic lights, this is absolutely inexcusable. Hell, even my Cavaliers had automatic lights and daytime running lights.

A lot of newer cars light up the dash, even with the headlights turned off. I think that's contributed to people driving with their lights off.

stickguy

That’s why one feature I really love is automatic headlights. Once you have it, hard to go back.

uplanderguy

I guess in my cars, you have to move the switch to 'automatic', but are there any vehicles built now without automatic lights? That seems like it'd be hard-to-believe.

ab348

There is a law here that you have to have your lights on if you are using your wipers. Of course, Canada has also had daytime running lights since 1990. But some people complain that under certain conditions, some cars do not illuminate their taillights when the front lights are on. Having had GM cars with automatic lights for 20 years I do not understand this as it seems to me my taillights are always on day or night when the engine is running. Perhaps not all do that?

ab348

uplanderguy said:

RE.: That '70 Chevelle SS396--what a nice-looking car. I'm typically exhausted of Big Three mid-size muscle/pony cars at shows and cruise-ins--most of them modified with wheels or other things--and I'd also include Novas of the '68-72 period.

BUT... I can surely appreciate a bone-stock-looking original or authentic restoration, in a rather unusual color for the car, like that one!

I liked the four headlights of the '70, but I liked the round taillights of the '71-72 better.

As a twelve-year-old, I thought "Cowl Induction" was cool.

Yes, the 1970 front end was much better than '71/'72. I guess they were trying to soften up buyers for the upcoming Colonnade cars. I also agree on the round rear lights being superior. Again, perhaps a precursor of what was upcoming.

Of course the '70 GM models in general were preferable over the '71s because they still offered a high-compression V-8.

stickguy

Auto lights in the US are certainly not universal. And some people must turn them off. We do have DRLs now (that might finally be required on new cars) but taillights don’t go on with that.

andre1969

On my 2012 Ram, you have the choice of having it on auto or manual. I honestly don't know what my 2003 Regal is. I know they come on automatically, but I tend to turn them on and off myself, out of habit. I'm sure there's a way to turn off the auto feature; I've just been too lazy to mess with it.

tjc78

I think nearly every GM has had auto lights since the mid 90s. My 98 (or was it a 99, can’t remember) crank window S10 had them.

tjc78

stickguy said:

Bulbs? I think both my cars now are full LED front and back. Hopefully that means no more bulb replacement ever!

The Enclave has Xenon sure hope to not be replacing those!

Michaell

The 2016 Jetta I leased had an old fashioned dial on the dashboard for the lights - on or off. DRLs all the time, but the dash lights had to be turned on, along with the headlights, via the dial.

Outback has auto lights.

uplanderguy

Of course the '70 GM models in general were preferable over the '71s because they still offered a high-compression V-8.

So true.

At least at Chevy--and I'll assume across the other divisions too--the colors available on the '70's were like sixties holdovers, and I mean that in a good way! Black Cherry, Misty Turquoise, turquoise interiors available. In '71 the colors became what I sorta think of as 'polyester '70's' colors--orangish browns, dark browns, lime greens, green interiors became pea green, no maroons outside again until '73, no red interiors.

bhill2

stickguy said:

That’s why one feature I really love is automatic headlights. Once you have it, hard to go back.

It's especially challenging when your daily driver has them and another of your cars doesn't. "Why is the road so dark--oh damn!"

stickguy

I love these. Quick flip on BaT though, only bought it in February. Canadian model though, so KM featured on the speedometer.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1991-honda-civic-si-8/

andre1969

.

bhill2 said:

stickguy said:

That’s why one feature I really love is automatic headlights. Once you have it, hard to go back.

It's especially challenging when your daily driver has them and another of your cars doesn't. "Why is the road so dark--oh damn!"

The biggest problem I usually have is when I'm driving my '67 Catalina and, for whatever reason, turn on its lights during the day. If it's still light out (or I'm in a bright area like a parking garage), I'll often forget to turn the lights off.

My 5th Avenue will chime at me, at least. With my '76 LeMans, it's been so long since I've forgotten and left its lights on, I can't remember if it buzzes, or not, but I don't think it does. And, the DeSoto gives no warning, either. Heck, the DeSoto doesn't even have a warning light for the parking brake...it was an extra-cost option that year!

xwesx

andre1969 said:

The biggest problem I usually have is when I'm driving my '67 Catalina and, for whatever reason, turn on its lights during the day. If it's still light out (or I'm in a bright area like a parking garage), I'll often forget to turn the lights off.

That's the biggest issue I have as well: I will always remember to turn them on, but I am not so good at remembering to turn them off.

tjc78

Stumbled along this video of Wildwood (Shore Town) NJ. At around 16:30 minutes there are some great shots of the 80s cars.

http://wildwoodvideoarchive.com/wildwood-in-1988/

ab348

Rare shot of a young @stickguy:

stickguy

a bit young for me, but when the kids were little we used to take them to the amusement piers and they probably rode the same little cars.

tjc78

Some of those rides are pretty much the same today and my kids haven ridden them!

uplanderguy

Just seen when I was out front of my house--have never seen it before--light blue metallic, white vinyl top, bone-stock '76 Pontiac Bonneville four-dooor hardtop, skirts, body side moldings, Rally II wheels, sitting level and moving smartly down my street.

Seems l don't see them in the same numbers I've seen big Buicks and Oldses of that period.

I liked the '76 overall--back to Bonneville name at the top, grille simplified a bit, interior revised so they no longer had the Grand Ville's diamond-tuft seat design and acres of wood that resembled the stock of an air rifle.