I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

fintail

Saw an immaculate looking 77-79 Town Car in that pretty light/medium metallic blue I have seen on several Continentals. Also saw a nice W123, a blue Stingray, and the same ~75 or so Nova sedan I see now and then in the area.

uplanderguy

The interior was where it fell down.

I always thought that was a serious weak point of AMC's in the late '60's and '70's. Even the early Javelin and AMX fell down in that area I think. In the '70's, AMC used bright green instrument lights (compared to the others, anyway), and had hard plastic and cheapy armrests right where you were reminded of them all the time. Even in the early '60's, as a kid, I thought it was laughable that their speedometers said "1,2,3,4,5,6,7..." instead of "10,20, 30, etc.". That said, I've known people that said their '60's Ramblers were the best cars they ever owned.

tjc78

Saw an immaculate looking 77-79 Town Car in that pretty light/medium metallic blue I have seen on several Continentals

That sounds like the color I had on my 79 Town Coupe. Little known fact they were actually Continentals and the "Town Car" was an option package that included the nicer interior, split bench seat and opera windows. Very few base model Continentals must have been sold, because I hardly ever see one for sale.

The Town Car model didn't appear until 81. (The Panther based 1980 model was still Continental).

uplanderguy

I have a college friend, widowed, who is attempting to sell her husband's '77 450SL. I told her I'd contact the M-B Club of America to see how much it would cost to run a 'for sale' ad if you're not a member. A week later, and I still don't have a reply to my email from the person I was instructed online in the club to send inquiries to about ads.

Do you have any idea what their policy is?

Thanks!

lemko

...black 1951 Chevrolet on Oxford Avenue near Bleigh and a black 1973 Pontiac Grand Ville convertible at Cottman and Rising Sun in NE Philly.

stickguy

a nice looking '67 Camaro convertible, with a decidedly non-stock sounding engine rumble.

and a very original (in a nice way) looking 4 door Corvair. Probably about a '65. Older guy just driving around, even had a couple of those cheesy team flags you roll up in the windows.

fintail

Looks like some rates are spelled out here

For a 70s SL, unless the car is really spectacular, it would be a good idea to pursue general classifieds too - those cars have a high survival rate and not a gigantic amount of demand unless they are pristine, or cheap.

fintail

I think it was like this:



Was there something like that for the new 1980 models? I remember seeing one of those badged just as a Continental.

Mr_Shiftright

I agree with fintail---don't bother with the MB club--'77 was not a great year for the 450SL and there are plenty for sale. I'd stick with Autotrader, Craigslist, and if the car is really pristine, Hemmings Motor News. These outlets are inexpensive (or free), and reach a very large audience for the amount of money you spend. The only 450SLs which are truly "collectible" are 74-75 models. You might also consider a reputable consignor, one that has a nice showroom to display the car in.

tjc78

Was there something like that for the new 1980 models? I remember seeing one of those badged just as a Continental.

That was the color I had. Of course that one is shiny!

Yes the 1980 Panther based "Town Car" was actually a Continental but it still said Town Car on it somewhere. In 1981 it was renamed to Town Car.

There was also the Continental Mark VI 4dr which was basically the same car but had hideaway headlamps and a different trunk.

uplanderguy

Thanks gentlemen. I had already suggested 'Auto Round Up' to her--I will suggest the others. Craigslist I was a little leery about...guess I've heard too much weirdo-kind-of-stuff about it.

texases

I share your concern about Craigslist for this kind of thing. If it's not in prime shape it may just be easier for her to sell it to a used car dealer for a nominal amount, that way she doesn't have to deal with the 'tire kickers'.

Mr_Shiftright

Well you never know with Craigslist---sure, there are the tire kickers and bottom feeders, but part of selling the car is screening your calls and e-mails and knowing how to pick out serious buyers---and there ARE serious buyers on Craigslist---and they're local people and the ad is free. So, with patience, it's not a bad way to sell. If it were a Gullwing, then no, but the 450SL isn't so pricey that it doesn't appeal to CL clientele.

fintail

Depends on how scam savvy she is. If she's with it and can not be taken in easily, it's a good outlet. But if she could be swindled...better not. However, fraudsters will answer ads on other sources too. Might be a good car to consign or have someone give her help.

fintail

Ah the Continental 4-door with the hidden headlights, that's what I was thinking of. Also the oval opera window in the C-pillar.

I see the blue pictured car has WA plates - could be the very same car I saw yesterday, only so many nice ones out there anymore.

tjc78

only so many nice ones out there anymore.

Yeah and the problem is they aren't worth much so the crappy ones certainly aren't being restored.

I always had "grand" plans for mine, but between the rust, and needing a new engine there would be no upside at all. I could have easily bought a nice one for less money. I did exactly that, except it was 10 years newer!

berri

Now that's a blue land barge! Probably dwarfs a comparable year Caddy.

uplanderguy

I know I grew up GM, but I thought then, and now, that those Lincolns were just so enormous. Didn't care for the slab sides and blunt front and back. I'd take a Caddy of the same vintage anytime. Now, move into the '80's and I'm not so sure!

andre1969

Probably dwarfs a comparable year Caddy.

I want to say a same-year Caddy would be about 221" long, on a 121.5" wb, whereas that Lincoln Loveboat is around 233" long, on a 127" wb?

andre1969

With regards to those '77-79 Lincolns versus the Caddy, it's a hard call for me. Just depends on the mood I'm in. If I'm in the mood for something more sensible-sized, I'd get the Caddy, but if I wanted the pure, unadulterated hedonism, it's hard to top those mastodon Lincolns. Although my personal choice would be a '77-78 New Yorker Brougham, which could be every bit as pimpy and plush, but with the added bonus of still being offered as a true hardtop.

In '80-81, I'd take the Caddy...even with that V-8-6-4...just disconnect the thing if it starts to act up! But, for '82-85 I think I'd have to go with a Lincoln, because of that dreadful Caddy 4.1.

stickguy

stopped for dinner tonight at a center with a few restaurants, so a big parking lot.

right in front of Bertuccis, was a nice green triumph TR6. With rubber bumper caps, so maybe a 75? Look very sharp.

and a couple of rows away, a while Lincoln Mark (III?). early 70s, pre-bumpers. White with white vinyl roof. reminded me of the TV shoe Cannon. Quite the barge, and off to see out parked like a real car!

fintail

I have an old MB, I know what you mean. A quality restoration of the fintail would only cost about 400% more than the value of the finished product.

A couple oddballs today - 80s Toyota van that I think was a 4x4, MB C32 AMG.

lemko

Heck, why not just get a 1982-84 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight Regency or Buick Park Avenue? You have almost the luxury of a Cadillac without the troublesome HT4100.

tjc78

Very true, but IMO in the early to mid 80s the Panthers were probably the best full size car.

I wouldn't throw a Park Ave out of my garage though!

kyfdx

You can see the LINCOLN Continental model designation, right on the hidden headlight cover..

But, the Town Car name was a trim line designation, even in the '70s..

My mother had '72 and '76 LINCOLN Continental coupes.. but, they were non- Town Coupes (lower trim line).. White leather in both of them..

I learned to drive on the '72....

uplanderguy

Heck, why not just get a 1982-84 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight Regency or Buick Park Avenue? You have almost the luxury of a Cadillac without the troublesome HT4100.

I agree...those are beautiful cars IMHO and trimmed in the details nicer than FoMoCo products of the same time period, only IMHO.

For some reason, I'd tend to stick with the '83 or '84 over an '82 GM big car. I know in Chevys, the 305 4-barrel returned to the fold in '83 which was a huge improvement over the 267, and I think the colors improved in '83 and also there seemed to be fewer issues with the "Computer Command Control" electronic engine managing equipment by those later years.

andre1969

Did the 305 revert to a 2-bbl in 1981-82? I know they started offering the 305-4bbl for 1979, with 160 hp, while the 305-2 slipped to 130, and then for 1980 they only had the 4-bbl, with 155 hp.

For 1981-82, my book is showing two 305's...one with 150 hp and one with 165 hp (Camaro Z-28 only). I'd always presumed they were both 4-bbl carbs, just one being more high-performance than the other.

Hey, I just thought of something. My '85 Silverado has 165 hp. Wonder if I could get some bragging rights by saying it has as much hp as a Z-28? Of course, I wouldn't mention *which* Z-28. :shades:

As for those computer controls, I've heard that '81-82 were the worst years by far. My grandparents had an '82 Mailbu wagon, and it fried its ECU twice...first just after the warranty was up, and then in late 1984, when Granddad got fed up and traded the car, as is, on a new '85 LeSabre.

I've also heard that GM's 4-speed overdrive automatic was more troublesome in 1981-82, but by '83 was improved considerably.

ab348

I agree except the one you want is the '77 to '79 model with the 403. Still on the downsized C-body chassis. My former '79 Park Avenue was posher than a comparable Caddy and the interior was as nice as any car I have ever seen of that generation. Bulletproof TH400 transmission and no computers either.

uplanderguy

Where I lived, I don't believe there was a 305 at all available in '81 or '82, at least on the cars I was always looking at (Malibu, Monte Carlo, Caprice/Impala, not wagons). The 267 was it. That was when California had its own special versions of engines, according to the brochures. The 267 was smooth and sounded like a V8, but that was about it. It was slow! I know that my parents' '84 Monte Carlo 305 4-barrel was a more satisfying car in several respects than my '81 267 or '82 V6 Montes were.

The "Computer Command Control" was part of the emissions warranty, which was mandated as longer than the regular warranty, but I can't remember what it was then.

andre1969

In retrospect, I really question the reasoning behind those little undersized V-8's of the era (Olds 260, Pontiac 265, Chevy 267...and Ford's 255). I guess at the time they made sense for EPA and CAFE purposes, where every mpg counts. But in real life, I doubt if they gave you much fuel savings over something like a 307, 301, 305, or 302.

I guess they'd still be smoother and sound better than a V-6 though. And I'm sure they had better torque.

C&D or MT (can't remember which) tested an '81 Grand Prix with the Pontiac 265, and I think 0-60 was something like 14.9 seconds! I also remember them testing an '82 Bonneville G with the Buick 252-4bbl V-6, and getting 0-60 in a more decent 12.9

One of them also tested a 1981 Malibu sedan with the 267, pitting it against, of all things, a Datsun Maxima, and I want to say its 0-60 was also around 12.9, but can't remember for sure.

I loved the 305-4bbl in my Mom's Monte Carlo. That car in general just seemed like a perfect blend of size, style, room, economy, performance, and maneuverability. Alas, I only had it for three months, before getting T-boned when a girl ran a stop sign in a parking lot.

uplanderguy

I loved the 305-4bbl in my Mom's Monte Carlo. That car in general just seemed like a perfect blend of size, style, room, economy, performance, and maneuverability. Alas, I only had it for three months, before getting T-boned when a girl ran a stop sign in a parking lot.

I really liked my folks' '84 Monte Carlo 305 4-barrel. Compared to their old, and my current-at-the-time, Monte V6's, it felt like an absolute hot rod and had a light touch on the gas pedal. I know I'm old and conservative, but I liked the exterior style and interior comfort and space, even in back. My Mom didn't drive and couldn't care less about cars, BUT...she would tell Dad, "The Montes look so expensive!", meaning that in a good way.

fintail

Saw an earlier MGB today and a Ferrari 348, forgot yesterday saw an unrestored looking E-Type 2*2

stickguy

on local roads, passed an early 70s torino. Looked to be in OK shape, and I think "hopped up" a bit, but the real oddity is that it was a 4 door.

ab348

For 15+ years of running the Olds mailing list, occasionally someone would join and ask about how to liven up the 260 in their car. It was the only engine that never had anyone able to do anything with to produce any more power. Easiest way to fix it up is to replace it with a 350 Rocket.

andre1969

would putitng on a small 4-bbl carb do anything for the Olds 260? The main reason I'm wondering, is because GM did use a 4-bbl on the Buick 252 V-6. that got it up to 125 hp and something like 205 ft-lb of torque.

In contrast, Chevy's 267 V-8 started with 125 hp for 1979. Interestingly, the 305-2bbl that year only had 130 hp, but I'm sure lots more torque. For '80, the 267 slipped a bit to 120 and for '81-82 was down to 115.

Pontiac's 265 V-8 had 120 hp the two years it was offered...1981 and 1982. Looks like the Olds 260 had 110 hp from 1975-78, 105 hp in 1979-81, and only 100 for 1982. Incidentally, one of my friends once owned an '82 Cutlass Supreme sedan with the 260. We drag raced one night, when I had my '86 Monte Carlo, with its 150 hp 305 and 4-speed automatic. Naturally, the Monte was faster. But considering it had 50 hp less and only a 3-speed automatic, and the more annoying emissions/engine controls of the time, that Cutlass didn't seem *that* bad.

I also thought it was interesting that the Olds 307, which I believe was only offered as a 4-bbl from 1980-90 and never a 2-bbl, only put out 140 hp. I think it was actually 150 for 1980 though. Did the 307 use a smaller carb to try and focus on fuel economy?

ab348

The 350 Rocket seemed to be the sweet spot for that design. The 403 had more output but also had some compromises because of the large bore size. The 260 and to a lesser extent the 307 were never very potent engines because they were built for fuel economy. Smallish valves, restricted ports, low-lift cams. Only the high-output 307 used in the mid-80s 4-4-2 and Hurst really had much kick to them. They made a rated 180 HP from the factory.

berri

I saw an original Monte Carlo (70/71 I believe) on the interstate today. What struck me is how big it looks on the road today. When it came out it always seemed kind of svelt despite its formal lines. At car shows it still does with all the large iron around it. Was it on the same chassis as the 70 Grand Prix?

berri

It always seemed to me that the GM 350 and Mopar 383 were two of the best balanced engines on the market in the 60's and 70's. As for the 4bbl Chevy 305, I owned one. I think the lighter weight of that vintage Monte Carlo (relatively speaking) also enhanced its performance.

uplanderguy

The original Monte Carlo was on a 116-inch WB; the '69 Grand Prix was on a 118-inch WB. Not sure how overall length differed between the two, though.

berri

I always liked the 69-71 GP, but I don't think that era was all that popular. Maybe a combination of downsizing from the large platform and a relatively high sticker price.

texases

..to see a number of older cars (Avanti, Citroen convertible, some '50s cars): "Gattica", a sci-fi movie set in the future...

andre1969

The '69 Grand Prix was actually a hit, with 112,486 built. In comparison, the '68 only sold 31,711, while the '67 sold 37,125 hardtops and 5,856 convertibles. Prior to 1969, the best year for the GP was 1963, with 72,959 sold.

Sales did taper off, though. In 1970, it ws down to 65,670, and only 58,325 for 1971. In '72 though, there was a rebound to 91,961.

The '69 Grand Prix was popular enough to encourage Chevy to do the Monte Carlo in '70. It was a stronger seller, moving 145,976 units for 1970, 128,600 for 1971, and 180,819 for 1972.

Oh, a 1972 Monte started at $3362, while a GP based at a much lofter $4472.

andre1969

I always loved one line from that movie...something along the lines of "I was born in the Riviera. Not the French Riviera, but the American variety"...

berri

Interesting. I just seldom saw them back then. Shows you can't go just by personal observations!

andre1969

Maybe they were more common in some areas than others? Personally, I'm not so crazy about them. Sort of pre-historic pimp, in my opinion. The Monte Carlo seemed much more tasteful and understated.

berri

I like that description. Now you're young enough to remember the lighted disco ball! Some call it pimp, some funk... I actually liked the first gen Monte Carlo the best, thought the next gen looked better as a Cutlass Supreme.

fintail

Took the fintail on the highway a little today. Still seems to be running warm to me - but not at dangerous levels. Keeps up with traffic just fine, even used the left lane a bit. Probably more a function of slow local traffic though. Got a thumbs up from a guy in a sharp W123 300D turbo, as he passed me going about 70 in a 60. Also saw an 80s Audi coupe (couldn't tell if quattro as it was dark, I assume not) 80s XJ6 and a decent looking 84-88 4-Runner.

andre1969

I actually liked the first gen Monte Carlo the best, thought the next gen looked better as a Cutlass Supreme.

yeah, I agree. There was always something smooth and tasteful about the '73-77 Cutlass Supreme. In contrast, I always thought the '73-75 Century/Regal seemed a bit stuffy, athough the '76-77 wasn't bad. And the Monte was just too pretentious. I thought the Grand Prix actually toned down the pimpiness a bit, but the Cutlass was still more tasteful.

And while my fave is still the '76-77 LeMans, I don't really care for the '73-75...just a bit too flambouyant, I guess.

lemko

Light green 1972 Cadillac Coupe DeVille at Rhawn and Verree in NE Philly.

Dark green 1969 Chevrolet Impala Custom at Rhawn and Verree in NE Philly.

Light yellow 1970 Pontiac Grand Prix on rolltop truck.

Black 1967 Camaro at Rhawn and Jeanes in NE Philly.

Red and white 1955 Oldsmobile Super 88 in Hatboro, PA.

Pimped-out two-tone silver and blue 1990 Cadillac Brougham with DUBs and gold trim on Oxford Avenue near Bleigh in NE Philly.

tjc78

blue 1990 Cadillac Brougham with DUBs and gold trim

Must have broke your heart!