I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

kyfdx

73%... seems I've taken this test before...

imidazol97

96%. Willys Aero and Henry J. I knew it was wrong, but didn't change it.

berri

That was fun. I liked all the oddballs included.

jwilliams2

96% here as well. Mixed up two Mopars....

uplanderguy

You and I must live in two different universes. And I look at Studebakers for sale, all the time.

My friend's 'new '64 R1 was priced two months ago at $29K by a dealer, but it is probably a 2 or 2+ car, built on the last day of production (although the dealer seemed to know nothing about that). I doubt they got $10K off the asking price.

Avantis I see for under $10K usually need hog trough or at least rear frame crossmember repair, fiberglass repair, that kind of thing, and often have aftermarket interior pieces, etc. Not things that keep the car from running well (like electrical gremlins could in a car with 'all the toys').

I've sold three Larks, one that was rusty for $4K, one for $12.5K and one for $15K, without even paying for an advertisement.

I need to also look where you're looking, apparently. With 4,500 Avantis built almost 50 years ago, I never see them for sale 'all the time'.

But, to each his own, apparently.

au1994

Need one for 60's, 70's and 80's!

texases

"Need one for 60's, 70's and 80's! "

I agree! I always get a kick out of the 'this was when cars were cars, not identical like they are now' lead in to that '50s test. Folks who grew up with a certain vintage of cars (or have taken them up as a hobby) know them inside and out, and can tell them apart. Really has nothing to do with the type of designs that were made. Me, I find pre-'56 or so cars very hard to identify. Why? They're before my time, and I've never developed an interest in them. Show me some '60s or '70s cars, I know I'd do better.

andre1969

Somehow I managed to get 100% on that test. I was unsure about the two Mercuries as well, but one looked a bit chromier than the other, so I guessed it as the '54 and the cleaner one as the '52.

I was also a bit unsure about the Willys and the Henry-J, but figured the uglier of the two was the Henry-J, and guessed right!

That test also seemed a bit DeSoto-heavy, so that probably helped me some.

lemko

I was in a little toy store the other day and spotted a blue O-gauge 1958 DeSoto wagon rail inspection car made by Lionel. The proportions were a little odd, but it did have headlights that lit up.

andre1969

I think I saw that same inspection car a few years back, at a train store in Baltimore.

Mr_Shiftright

Asking prices are irrelevant to market value, because a seller can ask anything he wants.

If you really want an Avanti R1, let me know and I'd be glad to look for a good deal for you!

uplanderguy

Absolutely. That's why I believe eBay is the best arbiter of value of all, and I'd probably place brick-and-mortar stores, overall, at the bottom.

Thanks for the offer. I would want an original color, original interior, excellent hog troughs and frame, and a solid runner. Probably not for awhile, although I've just sold my '66 Daytona.

There's not a single Studebaker Avanti on eBay right now. There are several '60's Lincoln convertibles, at fairly attractive prices IMHO.

Mr_Shiftright

That's right, eBay is good but erratic. It's best to average out the sales over time. When you do that (using a market software tool for eBay) you'll find that Avanti R1 prices are not as high as the highest sale price you saw, naturally.

For 71 Avanti R1s sold in the last few years on eBay, we find the following averages:

Excellent:$21,888
Good:$14,304
Fair:$10,746

Which I think is pretty accurate for the Avanti R1 market analysis.

Naturally, professionallly restored, rotisserie show winners can bring more, but it takes a lot of $$$ to build such a car.

uplanderguy

The '64 R1 I mentioned, was sold in the past two or three months at a dealer in Missouri. You may have the sale data for it. It is a beaut though, R1, auto, air, power windows, and nine serial numbers from the last. Two owners prior to the dealer and the current owner. I wouldn't ask the folks who bought it what they paid, as I consider them friends but don't know them enough to want to ask them.

Mr_Shiftright

Yep you have to assess a car's condition carefully before commenting on whether it was 'worth the price'.

Whenever I say "so and so car is not worth restoring", I'm not commenting on the car's merit---I'm just saying that the cost of restoration exceeds the car's market value by a wide margin.

some guys can beat that formula by doing much of the work themselves and putting 0 value on their skilled labor--which is fine, great hobby right?

But a full restoration of a real wreck can take 3,000 hours!!

lemko

I've heard those 1960s Continental convertibles are fiendishly complex and difficult to diagnose and repair.

fintail

I think I remember my dad saying they eat up front suspension components too. Sure are elegant though.

Mr_Shiftright

the 60s Lincolns are difficult in some respects but it's not really rocket science. Mostly the problem is a) sourcing the restoration parts and b) putting up with a car that wasn't all that good to begin with.

Nonetheless, nice early Lincoln convertibles ala the Kennedy style are pushing $80,000 now....I mean, super nice ones. I don't think the later converts would be worth that.

uplanderguy

If that's the case, there look to be some outstanding buys on eBay right now, by the bidding that's been done already on several of them. 20's and less--way less--right now.

A guy I know in the Studebaker Club had his parents' '65 Lincoln convertible 'til a few years ago. I seem to remember him saying some of the big PITA issues involved vacuum, but for the life of me I can't think of exactly what he complained about.

lemko

Here's a picture of the Studillac from the Cadillac-LaSalle Club show this past weekend in Lahaska, PA:

Mr_Shiftright

Restored 61-64 Lincoln convertibles start at around $40,000. If you're patient, you can find a real beauty at $50K, but if you want to win a show, you have to go north of there.

If you want a driver that's nothing to be ashamed of, but with needs, $25,000 should do it.

uplanderguy

He did some mild customizing around the headlights and filled the side grilles in!

Although there have been several instances of crazy selling prices of Golden Hawks ($80K and up), I'm generally not a fan. I like the clean '53-54's better and the later, formalled-up Gran Turismo Hawks even better than the '53. Function of my age probably.

uplanderguy

I got 100% on that quiz, although that's probably the third or fourth time I've taken it in the past two or three years. Seemed so easy to me. I remember once having to stop and think about the Lincoln hood ornament. For me (born in '58), I've always seemed able to identify cars, even as a kid, back to '49--before that was a challenge, although I've improved somewhat over the years.

A couple notes: The owner of that blue '51 Studebaker with "Chicken Hawk" painted on the doors, I've met and in fact he is the guy who annually runs a dark brown, one-owner '64 Lark Challenger R3 at the Pure Stock Muscle Car Drags and has downright shamed several other better-known 'muscle cars' in the quarter-mile. There are several videos of this on You Tube. The car is known as "The Plain Brown Wrapper".

Also, that maroon '52 DeSoto Custom is a dead ringer for one my low-income widowed aunt drove when I was a kid--probably into the mid'60s.

Mr_Shiftright

Show quality Golden Hawk should sell at about $40,000--$45,000.

I like the GT Hawks much better---the early Hawks are rather clumsy cars--the GT Hawks are more modern, more comfy cruisers, with more amenities and better handling (for the times). Build quality is so-so.

andre1969

I think I was able to identify that Lincoln hood ornament partly by process of elimination, and partly because of the color of the hood...that lavender-ish color just screamed LINCOLN to me!

Mr_Shiftright

The market for most 50s cars is very flat right now or even falling a bit, so if an early 50s Stude is in your dreambook, now might be a good time to buy!

fintail

This afternoon saw a TR3, mint powder blue ~65 Mustang fastback driven by an old man, immediately after that an obviously restored silver blue 2002 with small bumpers, and a 300TD/wagon that probably had 500K on it.

michaellno

1 - Peugeot 504. White, in decent shape
2 - Boat tail Riviera - for sale sign on it, metallic brown

fintail

Saw a couple of 83-85 911 Cabrios, one mint looking in a boring gold-beige color, the other a red with whale tale, a little dusty. Also saw an 83-85-ish Celica convertible and some kind of 70s vintage Honda (I think) motorcycle.

explorerx4

A gray Ferrari 308 GTS. Boy, those are small.
A gold Pontiac GTO with 'The Judge' trim. Not sure if it was real. I thought they were all orange.
A 56 Black and White Chevy, 2 door post i think, immaculate and with heavy sounding engine.

andys120

Not all of the GTO "The Judges" were orange. IIRC they could be had in a variety of GTO colors. It wouldn't be that hard to cosmetically fake a Judge with a wing and a decal package.

explorerx4

The orange 'The Judge' cars I have seen, have yellow and black decals.
This gold one had light minty green and black decals. It seemed more like the court stenographer edition.

fintail

I saw two different Merkur Scorpio, running and driving. Gotta be some small odds.

uplanderguy

I remember renting a Merkur Scorpio. I seem to remember it being a nice-driving car. I remember looking at the XR4TI when it came out. I couldn't stomach the styling. IIRC (no guarantee of that!), I'm thinking they didn't make that big of a splash and were discounted pretty nicely a year or so out, weren't they?

fintail

Both cars were eventual failures and no doubt could be had for end of year bargains. The XR4Ti was a cool car, turbo, double decker spoiler, Euro style - but high maintenance coupled with a sales and service experience which didn't grasp the car, created headaches for buyers as they weren't going to have a trouble-free experience.

Scorpio was a nice enough car, but not simple to maintain like an American Ford, and it was expensive, so it too faded away. Both cars were examples of the idiocy and vanity of Detroit execs too - touted as prestige cars with prices to match, but at home were normal cars. The XR4 was a Ford Sierra at home - typical middle class car, and the Scorpio was the full sized model, maybe slotting between the Taurus and Crown Vic in an equivalent market in Europe. Not intended as a lux or performance car to pursue MB or BMW, but the marketers insisted otherwise. Ford Scorpio in England was even a common independent taxi cab.

Similar vanity based rebadges exist today too - Buick Regal, touted as special and sporty, is a normal Opel Insignia at home, their equivalent of a typical full sized car. Acura TSX is the Euro Honda Accord.

explorerx4

a Copper and Cream color 4 door sedan. Nice and straight looking with shiny paint.

lemko

I was a sophomore in college when the XRTi debuted. I thought it was so "high-tech" and futuristic at the time.

Mr_Shiftright

one big problem with that car was the primitive thrashy engine, to say nothing of an unfortunate name for marketing purposes.

fintail

To the roads of 1985, it was fairly nice tech, and it looked very modern. Sadly, it wasn't the most drama free car to own. I wonder if the cool Euro 4x4 variants would have fared any better. Ahead of their time.

Mr_Shiftright

It was a good performer but really just a stressed 2.3 Pinto engine, without benefit of the Mustang SVO or T-Bird intercoolers and more sophisticated engine programming. (those two cars also shared that engine).

It was raced successfully and the car does deserve some praise.

andre1969

I never liked the XR4TI because IMO it looked too much like a glorified Tempo!

fintail

Funny thing, the "Majorette" toy car brand had a toy Sierra (on which the XR was based) sedan, and labeled it as a Tempo for the NA market.

uplanderguy

Good point, andre, it did look like a glorified Tempo. To my eyes, it was a mishmash of styling features...that 'designed by committee' look one usually only hears reserved about domestic models.

fintail

Saw a black and white 46-47 or so Buick in Tacoma yesterday - weird color combo made it look like a police car. But it was driving and keeping up with traffic just fine.

fintail

Saw a Suzuki Esteem this evening, and the same extremely clean black Granada coupe I saw awhile ago.

fintail

Saw a Datsun 610 hardtop coupe today - has to be rare anymore.

fintail

A few oddities this evening: Triumph Herald (!), Lotus Esprit, Saab 9000, 82-85 Supra

uplanderguy

Some surprises in there:

http://www.rmauctions.com/AuctionResults.cfm?SaleCode=HF12&SortBy=RO&View=Normal- &Category=Cars&Currency=USD&tempstartrow=26&currentpage=2&Collection=

'55 Studebaker President Speedster, same selling price as '55 Chrysler 300-C and 11K more than a '53 Packard Caribbean Convertible, all in stunning condition. '66 Lincoln Continental convertible, $41K.

Mr_Shiftright

Not such a big surprise if you plot Speedster sales over time. These cars started to jump in value in early 2010 and have been creeping up every since, so I think if you have a real show piece (a nut and bolt accurate show winner) then that's what they seem to be going for these days. The normal nice clean drivers you see at local cars shows would be worth 1/2 that.

The Chrysler 300C on the other hand, was sold way way below market, and plotted over time it should have sold for about $120,000 ...IF...it were a show car, which obviously it was not. Something was wrong with that car, I would imagine....or maybe the whole crowd was in the bathroom and someone stole it? I dunno, wasn't there.

Again, unless we are there looking at the cars, auction prices have to be looked at as only a database of "one".

The Packard Caribbean I would guess was a real dog, selling at 1/2 historical value.

uplanderguy

Here are details of the 300-C and the Caribbean...both were stunners.

Caribbean:

http://www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails.cfm?SaleCode=HF12&CarID=r180&Currency=USD

300-C:

http://www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails.cfm?SaleCode=HF12&CarID=r222&Currency=USD

While this is only one sale, there are no results more recent than this.