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Pontiac G6

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Launch is critical. The car mags will test those engines and those are the impressions that will last.

    You address the powertrain down the road and at best you'll see an "Update" of some sort in the back of the magazine, one pager at most.

    Car makers should launch the fastest model first, always. Sell only the 3.9l with the 6 speed, car mags will rave about it. Doesn't matter if dealers only have lesser versions to sell, the car will be Hot and people will be buying.

    Tepid review, tepid demand.

    -juice
  • z9z9z9z9z9z9z9z9 Member Posts: 101
    > 220 foot pounds from that displacement sucks.

    Not really. It works out to ~62.9 ft/lb per liter, which is pretty good for a 2-valve per cylinder engine running on 87-octane fuel.

    Displacement in itself is not very important. Neither are the number of cams and valves, the material used for the block, etc. All of these are only means to an end. There are really only six things that matter: acceleration, fuel economy, refinement, production cost, maintanance costs, and durability.

    Acceleration and fuel economy are diametrically opposed (as one gets better, the other gets worse, everything else being constant), but consider the 3500 in the Malibu: It gets the car to 60 in about 8 seconds, but has fuel economy that is as good as a 4-cylinder Camry.

    Refinement is neither particularly good or bad. Compared to my '03 Accord it's nothing special, but it's not bad either. It's better than my '98 GP.

    Production and maintanance costs are about as low as you can get, and GM's cast-iron V6s last nearly forever. I don't know how anyone can go wrong with this engine. It won't please "checklist" buyers, but that's about it.

    My biggest complaint: I'd like to have a 5-speed auto instead of a 4-speed. I've got a 5-speed auto in my Accord, and I really like the closer ratios, especially on the highway. The downshift from 5th to 4th on hills is nearly imperceptible.
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    A 5 speed auto would be nice. I hear GM will have a 6 speed auto soon so perhaps we will see that in a couple of years. Even a GM 4 speed is better than almost anything. GM makes the best automatics in my opinion.
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    The 6-speed is coming in 2006 for MY 07.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    Launching the expensive versions of a car first makes no sense. CAdillac and Chrysler tried that in recent months and both times sales struggled from the door. Only 10% of people will get the GTP (my guess) so it makes no sense to stock dealers with lots of GTPs only to give them the volume model later.

    The 3500 is reportedly very refined and my brother has been in a Malibu and said the engine is beyond quiet. GM (and now Chrysler) has learned to make OHV engines quiet and refined just like the OHC motors. It's time to move on. Harping on the 3900's low displacement per liter is pointless. The Altima has similar hp out of 3.5L, that is barely smaller than the 3900. .04L is very small, especially when you spread that out over 6 cylinders. The difference comes down to millimeters so those of you who can't own an OHV engine because of its specific output numbers are being silly.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I drove and liked the 3500 engine, too. At Chevy's Malibu intro event.

    But...if Grand Am is supposed to be sportier, it should get the big engine. Even if they only build one press car as a test mule, to produce the numbers. Keep in mind it has a longer wheelbase than the Malibu and will likely be heavier, and slower.

    For production, sure, build the 3500s.

    -juice
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    I wouldnt be surprised if they make some 240hp models available at the press events just to get a positive buzz about the car.
  • fformula88fformula88 Member Posts: 30
    I think some people here may be expecting a little too much from the G6 (and Malibu for that matter). The biggest critics seem to be upset that G6 is not going to be a class leader, but only an upper level choice crowded in the Altima, the Camcords and Mazda6. However, considering where they are coming from, is it so bad that GM has made a car that is merely competitive with the top handful of cars in its class, and doesn't really trump them?

    GM has for two decades largely ignored their passenger cars. Lets look at the car Grand Am is set to replace, the Grand Am. This car has been redesigned once since 1993 (was it 1999) and even that was an evolutionary update more than a ground up redesign. Its ancient in this marketplace, and sorely outdated. While other companies rework their cars every couple years, giving constant minor updates and improvements, the Grand Am has largely been ignored since the current version was introduced. The only real change has been the introduction of the Ecotec engine, replacing the 2.4L Twin Cam engine.

    GM did not have years of evolution in their small mid size car to improve on in the G6. They literally had to start completely from scratch, and engineer a vehicle without having taken any of the intermediate steps the competition has in their vehicles.

    In this respect, I think G6 looks a LOT better. The exterior design is not as radical as people would like, but that will help it to continue to look fresh. You don't see Honda making its family cars look like Firebirds for a reason. Staying a little mroe conservative with clean lines will let the styling last longer, and the car will not look dated in a year or two. Pontiac may have finally learned this lesson! The style of the G6 is good because in 4 years, it will still look good, not some kind of ribbed plastic sick joke.

    The interior is lightyears ahead of the Grand Am, and IMO is also an improvement on the Malibu (although that could be debatable). Maybe its not up to Accord standards, but its not far behind anymore. The latest version of the Accord isn't as nice as the prior version, with some noticeable areas of decontenting by Honda to lower its price. Its also become known for a number of rattles inside. Its still a very nice car, near class leading (the leader is probably the Passat) but G6 is not an embarrassment in comparison either.

    The engines are also a vast improvement, whether or not you personally like OHV engines. Nobody should consider the 3500 simply a larger 3400 because it is much better than those engines. More power and efficiency, along with smoother operation. It essentially competes with the 4 banger Camcords and Altima, and in comparison to those engines fairs well. It gets equivelent mileage and has more power.

    The 3900 is not out yet, so its not fair to compare it to a V6 Camcord or Altima. On paper it looks competitive, but there is certainly more to how an engine drives than the HP number printed in the manual. Also, that HP number in the manual is not always even correct. Its not beyond auto companies to misrepresent the power of their engines. Performance on the road is what counts, and we simply have no idea how a 3 valve per cylinder OHV engine with VVT will hold up against a DOHC VVT engine.

    Essentially, G6 is not a class leader, but it is an impressive step by GM in the right direction. This cal and the Malibu have come a far way from the cars they are replacing. If GM can bring them as far for their next redesign, they might be class leading.

    Also remmeber, these cars are not the final product of Bob Lutz's reorganization in GM. Both cars had been started before Lutz's arrival, and he has made changes on both but had to live with some aspects of them. They represent GM in transition, but not the final product. So I would caution anyone disappointed in these cars not to totally right off GM yet as being complacent because these cars still are not the culmination of GM's changeover. I think the Zeta platform RWD cars are the true test to see whether GM has brought itself up out of the basement and is on the rebound for the long haul.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    When you said it would be 4 engines soon, are you talking about the GXP 270HP model??? ;)
  • z9z9z9z9z9z9z9z9 Member Posts: 101
    > Keep in mind it has a longer wheelbase than the Malibu and will likely be heavier, and slower.

    ~3300 lbs. for the Malibu, vs. ~3425 for the G6. That will cost a couple tenths on the way to 60. Test drive a Malibu with a teenage girl in the front seat, and the G6 will be about that fast. Or you could test drive a Maxx, if you don't mind being seen in one. ;-)

    Thanks for the link bigdaddy! I see that the GT has a lower final drive ratio than the base model (3.29 vs. 3.05), so this may get some of the acceleration back at the expense of fuel economy.

    No real big suprises, other than the lack of rear headroom (36.5"). I won't be sitting back there, so it doesn't really matter to me. :-)
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    Don't be surprised if it's more than that.
  • saugataksaugatak Member Posts: 488
    Why is half this thread ignorance bashing of the 3.5L pushrod v6 in the Malibu and the 3.9L pushrod v6 in the G6?

    GM has made nice improvements to the pushrod. The pushrods are now made of lighter, thinner material. The older pushrod engines had heavier pushrods and were more susceptible to "valve float" at higher rpms and you can hear a "thud thud" as the engine revs. The newer pushrods are thinner, lighter and have coatings which enable them to operate with less friction. As a result, the engines sound a lot more refined.

    If you want a burst of high end speed on freeways, a high revving OHC engine is preferable. But for most city driving, the torque of the 3.9L v6 which is available at low revs is great. Also, unless you live on freeways and there's no traffic (how often is that?) you're more likely to be in the 1,500 to 3,500 rpm range where the pushrod gets most of its power.

    In my Acura, when I'm driving in city traffic, I stomp on it when the light turns green, it revs to 4,000 rpm screaming in first, then it hits second gear, VTEC kicks in and the car accelerates a little too much, and then I have to ease up on the throttle otherwise I'll pick up way too much speed to stop for the next light.

    I prefer the low end torque of the pushrod engine for city driving. Easy step on gas, good low end power and then I can ease up.

    Furthermore, the engine is easy and cheap to fix b/c you don't have to replace multiple cams to look inside. Instead of paying a mechanic $600 for an easy fix, you can do it yourself in halfan hour with cheap domestic parts. What's not to like?

    Why would anyone want a 4 banger with less HP and torque when they can get a 3.5 v6 pushrod of the same size and price in a car?

    I'm really interested in the 3.9L DoD v6. 240HP is all you need in a FWD car and with that kind of low end torque and a 6 speed it should be fun to drive.
  • z9z9z9z9z9z9z9z9 Member Posts: 101
    Looking over the standard/optional equipment lists (link above), I don't see the GT's manual shift mode mentioned. Both the base and GT models are listed with the same transmission. Hopefully they at least have the manual shift button that the Malibu has...
  • e2helpere2helper Member Posts: 1,002
    The G6 GT's shifter has an actual Tap Up/Down gate where you move the whole shifter to change gears.

    The Malibu has a rocker button on shifter knob for which really is just another method for you to manually select lower gears and save space on console for more storage.

    The base G6 SE1 doesn't have either, it's shifter has one lower position (6 position vs. 5 for the G6 GT and Malibu)

    The G6 SE1 and GT have similar transmission (4T45E - same as Malibu) but a different final drive ratio so the GT will feel a little quicker. I believe the trans gear ratio on G6 GT is same as you have on the Malibu Maxx (which is different from Sedan)

    The GT also has a full-function traction control system which applies brakes in addition to the engine torque reduction method used on G6 SE1 and Malibu.
  • z9z9z9z9z9z9z9z9 Member Posts: 101
    > The G6 GT's shifter has an actual Tap Up/Down gate where you move the whole shifter to change gears.

    How do you know this? The GT was _supposed_ to have this feature, but the info given to dealers doesn't mention anything about it.
  • e2helpere2helper Member Posts: 1,002
    I have pretty good knowledge of the vehicle ;)

    I apologize if dealer info might not be complete yet.
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    I believe the information on the shifter was included in the original press releases.
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    Pontiac.com still shows the trans shift feature. And I also understnd the advance order infomation received by the dealerships shows it also.
  • orwoodyorwoody Member Posts: 269
    I was looking over the 2005 specs for the G6, Grand Prix and Grand Am. G6 grows wheelbase, height and weight a fair amount over the GA. The only thing it seems to shrink is the trunk. The G6 wheelbase is actually almost 2" longer than the GP.
    I wonder if Pontiac is planning to phase out the GP next.
    Here's the link - click on print book, then model and you can pull up the current specs.

    http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/vehiclesel.jsp?year=200- - - 5&regionID=1&divisionID=7
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Yeah I noticed too that the G6's dimensions were about the same size as the GP. Nissan did the same thing with the Altima/Maxima...
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    with Nissan the result was that the Maxima became bigger. With Pontiac, there is the Bonneville. So one of the two will happen.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    I think the Bonnie disappears in MY 2006 or (more likely) 2007. The Grand Prix will get larger and become RWD, getting a small V-8. There is another new Pontiac coming, some kind of crossover wagon/vehicle (not the new twin of the Vue/Equinox, which is also coming) - to be built at the new plant they're building in Lansing (Lambda platform?). Not sure where that will fit into the lineup.

    --Robert
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    Yes a 7-passenger SUV is coming from the Lambda platform later in the decade. It will replace the SV6. Lambda is capable of housing V8s.
  • z9z9z9z9z9z9z9z9 Member Posts: 101
    > Pontiac.com still shows the trans shift feature.

    Can anyone get pontiac.com to load? All I get is a plain white page. Looking at the page source, its loading some JavaScript code in the HEAD tag and then bailing out. No /HEAD tag, no BODY...
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    do you have any software firewall installed on your PC?
  • z9z9z9z9z9z9z9z9 Member Posts: 101
    > do you have any software firewall installed on your PC?

    Nope.

    It appears that it was a sever problem on Pontiac's end; it's working fine now.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    BTW, the Pontiac SUV/Crossover will be called the "Torrent".
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Member Posts: 518
    Regarding the SUVs: The 2006 Torrent will be a Theta-body (VUE/Equinox) and will replace the Aztek. If Pontiac is getting a Lambda-body vehicle, it will not be before MY2007. I've heard there is some debate within GM regarding how the Lambda platform will be used, so I don't think anything is fully in place yet for that platform.

    -Andrew L
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    I read on one of the GM sights that G6 pre-production has started. It will be interesting to see how this car compares to my Grand Prix GT2. Looks like it will be a sweet ride with a 3.9L 240 hp power plant.
  • e2helpere2helper Member Posts: 1,002
    Actually the initial 2005 model year vehicle (what is being built right now - to be sold later this year) only comes with the 3.5 L 200 HP V6. The L4 and 3.9L V6 and other body styles show up for the 2006 model year.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    I don't know why you think the G6 is undergoing pre-production right now because it's not. It's undergoing PRODUCTION right now. LOL GMInsideNews has some pictures of the G6 on the assembly line.
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0405/28/e01-164366.htm Just one of the most recent articles that talks about the August start up of G6 production.

    Also Pontiac believes that production starts on August 9th. http://fleetnews.gmcanada.com/news_flash/en/eng_production_schedu- les.html
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    e2helper would most likely know for sure. But I think the current G6 models rolling down the line are pre-production vehicles that will not be sold to the public.

    The News article says this -

    "At the same time, the plant is building pilot models of the G6 and undergoing renovations. "
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Ahh, I thought that they were actually doing the real production! LOL Sorry Dan!
  • e2helpere2helper Member Posts: 1,002
    Actually the vehicles being built now are considered saleable but the initial usage of these vehicles is for marketing and company car driver fleet. This means you might be seeing them around in the next month or so just on the road like any other vehicle, especially if you live in Southeastern Michigan. Keep an eye out for them!!!

    Out in August is when regular production will be produced.
  • hotshot24hotshot24 Member Posts: 9
    The 3.5 Liter engine is made by honda and the 3.9 liter is a enlarged version of the 3.5 but a gm design. the 2.4 liter will have a hard time pushing 3,400 pounds without people and junk!
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    No the 3.5 is not made by Honda. This is a reworked version of the 3.4 I believe. The 3.5 made by Honda is used in the Saturn VUE and no other GM vehicle. The 2.4 may do all right with 170hp and 170 lb-ft tq. The G6 2.4 should compare well to the Mazda 6i and the Nissan Altima 2.5.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    bigdaddycoats is right.
  • saugataksaugatak Member Posts: 488
    Will GM make a high compression version of this engine and get around 270 to 300 HP out of it?
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    The GXP model (which is probably 80% going to be produced, but GM is still denying it) will produce an estimated 270HP with DOD. Interestingly, the Grand Prix GTP makes 260HP and the Bonneville GXP makes 275HP...
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    By the time the 270hp GXp model comes out the Bonneville will probably be out of production and the GP will have a more powerful engine.
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    The GXP model will also have AWD and will be pretty expensive, maybe above 30k.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    3500 is a pushrod but drive a Malibu and you'd be hard pressed to tell, it's quite torquey, and fuel efficient.

    -juice
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_gm_saves_million/index.htm

    Here is an article that has it both ways. Says May 26th ended a pilot run of few hundred saleable cars AND "Job 1" is in August. Guess we can have our cake and eat it too. ;-)
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Member Posts: 200
    This is the upcoming A3 Hatchback interior. Looks very much like a G6 interior
    http://www.autoweek.com/specials/galleries/a3/images/5.jpg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    True but it's harder to style a small car's interior, so Pontiac should aim higher.

    Both look decent, though.

    -juice
  • herzdawg007herzdawg007 Member Posts: 18
    poniac.com moved the G6 from future vehicles to production models! there's like twice as many photos and some sweet 360's. no pricing though...
    do you think the 3.9 liter will be available by august next year?
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    Production of the 3900 starts late this year. It should be available in the G6 this winter.
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    3.9L Starts production in April 2005 in the GTP Sedan version. May even be classified as a 2006 model.
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