Documentation Fees
Working with a number of dealers and a number of regions I find doc fees vary from zero to several hundred dollars.
This can make a big difference in a successful negotiation.
So...if you're a consumer, how do you deal with it, and if a dealer, how do you justify it?
This can make a big difference in a successful negotiation.
So...if you're a consumer, how do you deal with it, and if a dealer, how do you justify it?
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Comments
Terry :-)
I just consider the OTD price including all dealer fees when deciding what to buy.
Besides, it is not like someone is going to do just your paperwork when they do run it. Let's say they run to Springfield, IL and back. That's about 180 miles round trip, and let's say it takes the whole day to do the job. So 8 hours at even $10/hour plus $0.35/mile for 180 miles is $63 for mileage. So a dealership might have $143 in transportation and labor costs if you did just one registration.
However, I suspect this is done on a weekly basis, so a store that sells 100 cars a month might do 25 of these a week.
Cost to process your paperwork, $6.00
Some dealers charge upwards of $600 for the doc fee. I have not found any dealers that are less than 200
My family has purchased 10 new GMs this year.
My local Toyota dealer charges $399, one of his competitors charges $139. Guess who advertises cheaper cars?
*plus, TT&L, doc fee, lot fee, swap fee, storage fee, clean and detail fee, 50 year/5 million miles warranty and deer whistles.
We don't mind paying a doc fee that covers your costs of having the document clerk go to the DMV and register our vehicle. Better him or her stand in line than me.
But be realistic about that fee. Even figuring in the costs of office automation equipment, software and forms, it can't cost anywhere near $299 to get my plates and register my title (unless this $299 includes the fees charged by the state.)
I believe in IL tags are $75/year and title registration is $60. (An insane price to have the state basically record my name, address and DL, mileage at registration, any lienholder info and a VIN.) So 200 beans to cover the state fees and the cost of the documents clerk is probably fair.
However, that same 200 beans above the $135 I have to pay the state makes it worth my while to fill out the forms myself and spend 30 minutes at the Secretary of State branch office.
But I do agree with the notion presented above, I don't care about the doc fee, as long as the OTD price doesn't exceed the pre-negotiated number.
Besides, how much can it really cost in automation equipment if I can renew my tags online and only pay an extra $1.75 to use my credit card instead of driving down to the SoS office. I don't think $1.75 even covers my gas.
TB
In my opinion, based on my experience, if a dealer charges more than $30-40 for a doc fee, it's just another way to grab profit. There's nothing wrong with profit, but hiding it in an administrative fee that IS NOT A PART OF STATE REGISTRATION AND TAX FEES is just wrong. There's plenty of money to be made in the car business the legitimate way - no sense in scamming folks.
Obviously yours are more clear to me than mine are to (and probably others)
Cheers,
TB
Autocross This
Well, let's just say the Buick with a trunk full of tools and parts doesn't do too bad.
Of course, nothing like my SVT Contour, however.
Didn't pay doc fees on either, BTW.
TB
Plus...we must charge a $40 emissions fee per car sold for an state emission program that shut down and does not exist...but you get a nice colorful sticker.
talk about a scam!
TB
Pro profit, anti large government, thinks he is a Smart Shopper.
the same deal. Plates and 'puter to print
out reg. and stickers. No running to the
DMV. Iwonder how much it costs them ?
But like I said on all the GM employee deals
on the 10 cars we bought this year 20bucks doc
fees tho...........geo
Even trying to find out what the doc fee is isn't foolproof as I've found that the doc fee that the salesman swears his dealership doesn't have suddenly morphs into an "Administrative Fee" or a "Delivery Fee" when paper signing time comes.
Focusing on OTD and sticking to it is of course the answer. Nonetheless, it is undeniably wearying and irritating to have to fend off such arbitrary fees in order to get to a final price.
CWJ
Me personally I have a runner, he gets paid $8 dollars an Hr, I also pay the gas, lunch and "depending' on what state, I pay the $6.50 per title flip and the $2.75 per reg.
Depending on how many titles, registration and Surety agreements, this guy will spend 3/4 hrs a day (min), standing in line waiting to drop off or picking-up the titles and regs .. so it's a lot more than that piece of paper that folks get handed at the dealership .. plus depending on the day, I pay someone to log the deals, do the pay-offs, print the deals and notarize all the paper work he gets handed, so add another 3/4 hrs a day there.
Kinda keep in mind, the dealers money is always Upfront, the vehicle, the paper work, the overhead and what most folks forget is - dealers pay All the sales tax upfront on the buyers deal waaay before we get paid ...
So unless someone has an easy $100,000 just sitting around per month, then there has to be some charge to the buyer.
Just my 2 cts ..
Terry.
Ed
I gather that the doc fees are a way of lowering the apparent price the the car. If two dealers sell the same car, one for 18K + 250 doc; the other: 18,250, the first one will adv. 18K + fees; the other would adv. 18250+....
who will get the business?
Ed
of course, this keeps us sniffing to see if the grass is greener on the other side of the block,
Ed
However, there is no way I'm gonna pay $200 just for a dealer to hand me the title or certificate of origin and tell me to visit the DMV, because I buy the car out of state.
The costs and fees, internally to take the car in, such as getting titles for trades and such are legitimate costs of doing business.
But don't tell me that everyone has to pay the $200 (or whatever fee) because it isn't worth it to me.
A fee of say $50 to save me an hours worth of time, I'll pay that, and at least according to Zeuslewis, will probably cover most dealers administrative costs to handle my paper.
But make it optional. If I want to take the title or CoO and do it myself, or I have to do it myself, then I don't want to pay that fee.
TB
Pro Profit, Pro Value.
But unfortunately, this is all based on the state, the county and all that goes with ..
I just had a customer in my office about 8 months ago and he was just DETERMINED to do it all himself, because he knew better.
I explained, he didn't have a dealers license, I explained the title agency wouldn't except his money, I explained they would not except his notary or paperwork, etc, etc. So I said, "knock yourself stupid" -- he did, so after a call from the title clerk and the Sheriffs dept, I went down personally (not my Yob Mon. l.o.l.) and got it all straightened out, between me, their staff, 2hrs, and the kindly Sheriff that was DETERMINED to take him for a little ride.. l.o.l.....
So he finally did get the gist of it .. but still didn't want to pay the $50 - amazing.!
Terry ;-)
You pay your $135 (IIRC) to the Secretary of State and a seperate check to the DoR for the taxes.
You get a cardboard tag (thank goodness, those window stickers are hard to get off when applied to the rear window defogger) until your tags arrive or transfer your existing tags to the new vehicle.
However, sounds like your customer was in a bad state (double entendre intended). If the state requires a citizen to register a vehicle, then they should make it possible for a citizen to register a vehicle.
I didn't say they have to make it easy, but they shouldn't write the laws in such a fashion so that only car dealers or other "agents" are the only ones allowed to register.
Kinda goes against the whole notion that government is working for the people. Of course, I have a problem in many cases with the notion that government is actually working, LOL.
TB
Terry :-(
However, I am against having the dealer dictated doc debit being manditory.
Of course, the customer can choose to back out of the deal.
But like, I think I made it clear before, let the buyer decide if the service is worth the price listed.
As you read, in my state, it really is pretty easy to register a vehicle, so 30 minutes of my time on a Wednesday (don't bother going on Tuesday or Saturday) is worth it to save $200. But then I am at work when my pager is on, so I have a little more flexibilty than most.
TB