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Comments
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Good Luck usnycus,
Let us know what happened...
btw, what is your first color choice??
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Thanks Panda71
Went to couple of dealers and they all were giving 40-50% of what I was expecting for my trade.
I am in process of selling my Honda Civic to private buyer and will revisit dealers again.
What?...yes, they are more rare. Few people want them whan they are new, and it seems even fewer want them as used cars!
"people don't sell them until much later in the vehicle's life"
Again....WHAT???
"isellhondas is a dealer and will tell you this as any dealer would"
??????
Sorry, I just tell things like it is. You can believe whatever you want.
CRV's with five speeds appeal to very few people and they are very slow sellers compared to the automatics both as new and used cars. We do stock a few of them for the people who have to have a stick.
Having said that...I'm in Seattle where there is a LOT of traffic and a LOT of hills.
They may sell a lot better in other parts of the country.
I never had a problem driving manual in traffic, but I am well coordinated and not affraid to flex an extra muscle. There is a different mentality when driving stick and auto in traffic. Most auto drivers switch from brake to gas and then when they drive stick they do the same and then complain about it. When I am in a traffic jam, I just leave it in 1st gear and modulate the speed with the throttle. I don't ride the person infornt of me bumper, and keep a distance enough to let me coast rahter "stop and go." Ever seen big rigs in traffic? They just coast. They have 16 gears to deal with, coasting you only deal with ONE.
It is personal preference, I like to be in control. I had a Gen 1 CR-V with auto (dealer told me the manuals did not exist-LIAR!!) I was the most miserable person out there. The delays it takes for the auto to decide what gear to chose, and the hesitation, and inability to hold a gear when I wanted it to really upset me. It was not an enjoyable car to drive. It was the first and the last auto for me. Unless i am crippled or something (god forbid)
I grew up in the mountainous Himalayas in India, and always drove a stickshift. 99% of cars sold in India are manual, and everyone grows up kinda without a choice to have auto. I would prefer manual anyday, even in stop and go traffic.
I think people are accustomed to auto in the US and therefore think manual is inconvenient. The only reason I went for an auto CRV is that my wife (who drove manual in Moscow all her life) prefers an auto now. She does the major driving while I recline the front seat and relaaax so I'm not complaining!
On the positive side, it did let me know I probably shouldn't try to learn to fly an airplane...or basically try to operate any machinery more complicated than a golf cart. Oh well...
I love that!!!! This is someone who is not affraid to admit. I just wish other people were as brave as you are. May I use this qoute in the future? Lol
kirstie_h
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Nothing wrong with 5 speeds. I happen to like them myself. They just don't sell well at all either as new or used cars.
Also, I've had two or three people have to trade in the sticks I've sold them because of knee injuries.. yeah...God forbid, but stuff like that can happen.
5-speeds started in '98 (I had one).
They have restricted 5-speeds to certain trim-lines and drive-line configurations over the years... I believe the first generation SE models were only available in automatic.. At one time, FWD models were also only available in auto (that really didn't make sense).
I believe the AWD EX model is the only current model that can be had with a manual transmission..
regards,
kyfdx
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Anyway..the original car was sold while we waited for our cash to come through and he just got another one on the lot..same color..automatic. We test drove the automatic so he would have known we were negotiating for an automatic.
So..we call today and say we are ready to pick up the other so to prep it and we will come in the next day to finalize the deal. Well he just calls me and says he made a mistake..the price he gave me(which is really the price I asked for) he said was really for a manual and that the automatic would be $800 more..so he gave me HIS invoice price.
Now..I purchased consumer reports pricing guide on this car..so I have dealer invoice and wholesale price. The pricing column I am looking at sayd EX 4WD AT..which is automatic..it does not say that there is a difference in manual and automatic in price...so basically he is trying to knock me back up to dealer invoice.
Is there REALLY a price difference in the manual vs automatic in the EX model?
I know that the wholesale is 21,561 and he agreed to my price of 21,300K..which I know was below wholesale and figured we could finagle on that..I had another dealer quote me 21,465..so I am in the range of where I want to pay..but saying that auto is $800 more..hmmm
What do you all think?
I just emailed another dealer I had been talking to..internet dept and he quoted me 21,683 that includes destination charge..for automatic..so I know that he is willing to go down on this for me..and not tell me that automatics best price is their invoice.
Uggh..I hate the car haggling game..why does it have to be soo slimey??
I would rather buy it from the dealership where we already take the civic..they have a great service dept..but not thrilled with the sales tactics here.
They did get enough people wanting these to make the change the next year.
No 5 speed SE's and the 2WD models are only available in LX automatics. It's been a long time since I sold one.
It's entirely possible your slaesperson made a simple mistake. I've done it myself. There are so many lines to look at on a price sheet, it can happen.
Even the bump up in HP in '99 wasn't enough for an automatic (for me)... Just not enough torque from that small engine....
The new one, on the other hand... has plenty of power, either way...
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I walked in to the dealership and said " who can sell me that car(I pointed to the exact car on the lot..only silver moss sitting all by its lonesome) for $21,000? I knew I was not going to get exactly 21K..but I figured that would start a conversation and get salesman to walk my way. So we walked into the sales managers office with him and I said that I would like the car for $21,300k and that I already had qoute from another agency for around $21,400. can he sell me the car for that. He looked up some numbers and then said yes, he could. We THEN test drove the car again. He insisted we did even though we told him we had JUST test drove it at another agency..so we did..he knew it was automatic.
I am sorry..if you are looking up pricing and agreeing to a price..you should make darn sure you are looking at AT price vs MT..
The pricing I have from CR shows me $21,561 for automatic..
So I am guessing he is just trying to work me as far back up to HIS invoice as he can to sell the car..and saying it was a "mistake" is really just a line..c'mon..the sales manager better know his numbers on this car like he knows his own name!
I feel slimed!
I'd give them the benefit of the doubt... Besides, you haven't been cheated until you take delivery of the car... Everything up until then is negotiations... The money is still in your pocket.
regards,
kyfdx
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I also feel a bit slimed from his fast one on the protection package. Since I didn't have pricing on any add-ons when I went in..since we didn't really want any..and he said retail was $300 but he will give his "wholesale" of $230 for the add-on as a deal..well..yeah right..I come to found out that $230 is really honda full retail and if I look around..I can get this package down to $145 after market.
I just hate the lying..makes me ill. Must be true that dealers love to sucker women!
The only thing you two have in common, is that both parties want you to drive home in a car that day.. presumably..
So, it really isn't the salesperson's job to look out for your interests... The only way you can be taken advantage of, by being a female, is by being uninformed.. and you have the power to fix that.. Information is gender-neutral.
It is, by nature, an adversarial transaction.... like any negotitation.. But, it doesn't have to be unpleasant... Arm yourself with the facts (you already have a good start on that), and try not to go in with a negative attitude..
Good luck,
kyfdx
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I definitely know the "game" of car haggling..I just hate the process because it can be very slimy experience.
I will see what he says. Waiting for his call back. Armed with a quote from another internet manager for the same car now..perhaps he will be more willing to go back closer to my original price to match or better this other quote. At this point, I can go either way..the other agency is less than 20 miles up the road..this one is only 5 miles up the road and is our current service agency as well..
Trying to squeeze the last ounce of profit from the dealer in your deal isn't likely to endear you to them, but like kyfdx said, its just a negotiation and business. Trying to take every bit of holdback so you can feel like you got the car below "wholesale" (whatever that is) may not be a realistic deal on a vehicle that is in high demand, but if you think that is all the car is worth than make your offer and walk away. I personally don't mind paying a fair price and allowing the dealer to make some profit on the deal, that is why they are in business after all, but that is just me.
Good luck with your purchase.
My view of CR pricing report is that it is just a waste of time and money. You paid for someone to tell you what you should pay for the car. You could have done that on your own by visiting Carsdirect and this forum. CR report does not force the dealer to give you the price CR gave you.
I say, if you are not happy with this dealer, just buy it from the other dealer who gave you a qoute that you are trying to beat. You can still service the car at the closer dealer, heck you can service your new car at ANY Honda dealer. There is no law that says you have to service the car where you bought it.
What color did you buy and from what dealer in what city?? Thanks
Looks like I'll pass on the CR-V
I also see claims of getting an EX for 21,400.
What is a fair price? If these deals are so common why is it not reflected on Edmunds TMV....funny thing the sales man said 'If I could get you the car at the Edmunds TMV, would you be interested'. I said I will consider several offers first. It almost sounded as if he new the TMV price was high...especially when they would have to pull an LX from another lot..
What is the story!
I live in PA.
Negotiate from invoice, don't look at MSRP. At invoice, a Honda dealer is still making ATLEAST 3% of base MSRP (excluding destination) as profit. Consider other factory to dealer incentives and the dealer is still making a decent profit on the sale.
So I as again.....is it best to wait for the 06's? I would think Honda would not be adding or changing anything in the V since it gets a makeover in 07. I'd think they'd keep the price the same since it will even have more compettiton from the new 'big' RAV comeing out in Nov. I keep hearing about the Honda clearance event but see no rebates and am not convinced I would not have gotten a price 1K over invoice 6 months ago....what do you guys think?
1) He sensed we thought the current RAV was too small but hoped to hold onto us for a future sale in Nov/Dec....this seemed plausible to me. If he really believd the 06 redesign RAV was another year away I think he would have pushed the current gen RAV since he knows we are not going to wait another year or more for a new car purchase.
2) Toyota keeps everyone in the dark leading to all the current speculation and the dude was misinformed. (BTW, speculation is the new RAV will be about the size of the V, almost as big as the Highlander and may include or option a 3rd row seat of some sort. The next gen Highlander is due in 07 and will grow a bit to be more the size of the Honda Pilot). Who knows at this point.
One thing is sure, if the V always sells about a grand under MSRP, why wouldn't I wait for an 06...unkess there will be a BIG price increase. I doubt that. I know the LX went up a bit in the past but that was when they made Airbags and such standard. I do not think there is anything else they can make standard on the LX. I can see them perhaps dropping the LX line if a next gen 07 is on the way.....that would force into a more expensive EX. I have not heard plans to do this. So too raise the price significantly and nothing to the LX aeems unlikely.
Personally I do not care if I get an 05 or 06 but if the price is the same I'll take an 06. The only thing I really do not like about the V is the black bumpers. I wish the were color coded on all levels. If I new the 06 LX would have these I certainly wait. My wife likes the alloy wheels too. Still the EX is simply out of our range.
The only thing that bothers me is the HONDA CLEARANCE EVENT crap I see on TV. I see no clearance pricing for the V.
So, eitther the Edmunds TMV is correct at 20.8K for an LX 4WD auto....or Edmunds is not and folks are buying the car for a grand less, at invoice as folks here proport.
I wish I new who to believe!
Looks like I'll pass on the CR-V .......
What other quality car is in the same price range?
If Toyota sold under invoice, but was $500 more than CR-V, would you get RAV? Only because it is under invoice, not because of the product?
Want it under invoice, wait until the 2006's are on dealer's lots, which is about September 15th, the 2005's will become "last year's" mechandise and will be heavily discounted. The selection may dwindle, but since you are more interested in price, I don't think you will be too picky about colors and options if "the price is right" Am I correct to assume that?
When dealers ask me what colors I would like, I just tell them the colors I don't want: Red and White, everything else is fine with me. I wanted a manual, so my color choices were even more limited.
From Edmunds.......
"What Edmunds.com Says: Toyota formally petite RAV4 will finally grow up to a more competitive size for 2007.
What We Know: Toyota has managed to enforce a fairly tight embargo on all information regarding its redesigned Rav4, although from what has managed to leak out, we can expect some major changes. First of all, Toyota will be adding a third, albeit tiny, row of seats to the 2007 Rav4, thus nearly doubling the passenger capacity. A 3.0-liter V6 could also appear, at least as an option, on the 2007 Rav4, and Toyota has apparently not ruled out the possibility of building a hybrid version of the vehicle. Pictures and artist mockups also indicate that the redesigned Rav4 will finally gain a prominent rear bumper.The 2007 Toyota Rav4 will appear, of all places, at the 2005 Frankfurt Auto Show."
I hope you are right about the RAV because we do not wish to wait until 07 for a new car. That makes me lean more toward the V again.
I hear the V changes in 07 as well so maybe Toyota planned it that way.....
Thanks,
Diana :confuse:
Since there is nothing supposedly new about the '06 CR-V other than maybe a couple of new colors, I'd wait and get an '05 in October. The catch-22 is that CR-V sales have taken off recently with gas prices rising so quickly - there is a chance there may not be many '05's left soon.
As for people fearing an automatic one-year depreciation, I have found that mileage can mean more than model year when it comes to resale. My '01 Odyssey with 36k miles brought more in trade than my brother's '02 with 58k miles when we sold them the same month...
I'll share what I did and got a 4WD LX for $1100 below invoice in May 05 and hope it helps you get a good deal on an 05, considering the 06 model is not too far away.
I went to the Honda website and emailed 30 Honda dealers located within a 20 mile radius of NYC 7 days before the month was ending. The reason is dealers are always willing to sell to meet month end quotas - don't shop any other time. I told them I was ready to drive out a car (and was flexible on any color) at the end of the month and would buy from the dealer who gave me the lowest price. I fielded about 20 calls by the Internet fleet guys the next 48 hours (each call lasted less than a minute) and called the guy with the lowest bid and said the sale was his. He faxed me the invoice, I put a deposit on my credit card and was done in 5 mins.
Remember Economics 101 class, all new CRV's are a 'commodity' on each dealers lot, i.e. there is no product differentiation. So make the bidding competitive by letting them know you're shopping around. For a dealer, a sale at less profit to you is way better than a no-sale, right? Each dealer wants that sale and will undercut the other dealer - its called turn and earn. Every sale ensures their future supply of vehicles from the manufacturer.
When dealers know a buyer is knowledgeable, they'll close a slim-profit deal in 10 minutes rather than spend 4 hours with a potential buyer who is not sure what they want. There will always be plenty of buyers who walk into showrooms on weekends and think they got a great deal coz the salesguy knocked $200 off MSRP. These clueless buyers keep dealers in business.
The Honda Clearance is to get rid off slower moving 05 Accords and Civics, and the Honda CRV is definitely not one of them, thanks to zooming gas prices and people downgrading from their V8s.
Anyway, don't beat yourself up trying to get the last $50 off a CRV. Anything around invoice means you've done better than 90% of car buyers - go buy it and enjoy the car. Remember, the CRV already has the lowest cost of ownership among SUVs so you're one up over all other SUV owners right there.
My advice, look into buying your onw extended warranty. You can research this on edmunds.com
CRVchick
crvchick
I think you can do better. Cost is 22k even for that car and 06 are coming out soon. My family's had honda's since 1986; over 15 I stopped counting! laugh.
I paid invoice for my 04 odyseey, I just bought a 2005 Civic (paid cash) from the dealer who I got my odyssey from and paid 1k BELOW invoice for a 4 door LX civic auto I paid $14,500. NO tax, just title and lisc.
I also made the deal at the time for my CRV. I want an EX auto too, he agreed to 1k BELOW for an 05 or 06 (my hubby is in Iraq now, so I don't need it till early Dec, so I may be at an 06, he said that is ok) for 21k. That is 1k BELOW invoice on an 05 OR 06....
So I know you can do about 1k better!
Actually, the more I've thought since the month ago I got the civic, I am going to bid 20k even! 2k below for an 05....
or I walk.
I have a credit score of OVER 800 and the CRV would be my 3rd honda from them since Feb 04 when I got my odyssey.... !!
It's lumberton honda, lumberton, NC. We are near Fort Bragg; hubby active army.
My mom (who bought most of the honda's is in arkansas at Honda World in conway arkansas) we ALWAYS get invoice NO matter, model, year, etc...
They gave me at kelly bb for my trades (an 04 odyssey EX with only 15 mi and ABSOLUTELY PERFECT condition, and an 03 toyota TOP OF THE LINE tundra with 18k miles). I needed the equidy to pay cash for a civic.
NO more IRaq, hubby getting out of the army!
We'll prob get him an 06.. but I am NOT paying more than 21k.
I am currently looking for rebates or special APR, then I'll buy whenever till early Dec, since i already have the price.
Again, I am offering a little less, they've already sold my odyssey and probably my truck....so they can do a little better.. 1k below, they are still just into kickbacks!
Heidi
My advice, look into buying your onw extended warranty. You can research this on edmunds.com
CRVchick
Read the warranty gold fiasco, Warranty direct operates on the same principle: re-insured insruance plan. I woul dsuggest for everyone to stay away from these off shore companies that only have a mail box ect. for an address in the US. If you really feel that you need extended warranty go with the manufacturer backed one, Honda care in this instance.
$300 under invoice - purchased late July - Thomason Honda