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Comments
So buy a Korean car or whatever.
Cars sell for what they are WORTH.
I paid a little over $1000 LESS ($22,830 out-the-door) for a 4WD LX just 2 weeks ago in suburban Philadelphia.
I don't know the market conditions up in CT, but... it sounds like you're getting it close to MSRP - which doesn't seem like a deal.
SOMEONE will beat that price, it just depends on how much effort you want to put into making that happen.
What do you think?
His latest quote (70 miles away):
2007 CRV 2WD EX Automatic- MSRP $23,445 - Internet Team price - $22,602 plus tax & license
(843 off msrp & 870 over invoice). These prices incl dest but not tax and lic. I'm in the San Fran Bay Area btw...
Do you think an extended warranty is necessary with a reliable Honda? Not sure how long I'll keep the car at this point.
Thank you.
$23,266.12(invoice of $22840+$100 incl. floormats and destination)
$1338.88 (taxes)
$395.00 (title, documentation, & prep fee).
-----------
25,000 OTD
-----------
The $395 fee is a bit on the higher side but is on par with the other honda dealers in KY. The minimum fee for all the local dealers was $249, but that dealership's OTD price was much higher. I negotiated using OTD price. My deal is comparable to the best deals people have gotten (per edmund's forums):).
The same dealer quoted the LX 4wd for ~$21,300+TTL.
for that model.I want to be in that monthly range but not by shelling out 3k for a lease. Should I try another dealership? Hope I didn't highjack the thread.
I love this Honda so far. Wish it had a power seat. Also may need some more padding added by an upholsterer.
Questions: What can be programed at the dealer. Some irriations:
-endless seat belt chime if you take off your seat belt. I was able to get this shut of on my Toyota.
-only one door unlocks after put in park.
-takes two clicks to open all doors with remote, could reprogram with Toyota.
Also, my Toyota had an audible beeb, twice for unlock, once for lock. My CRV is silent. Is that right?
Anyone put those expensive padded seat covers on?
Any problems I should watch for?
Thanks
G
MNF
We are just some good folk here, including sales people, who mainly share experiences and advise; pain - not so much.
Be well
People get fleeced at 7-11,Wal-Mart,Home Depot,ATT,McDonald's, etc etc etc for years and years, and just take it.
Yet they show up on a car lot and suddenly they act like tough guys. I work hard, am polite, positive, and successful. Yet I run into incorrigible customers routinely almost the second I say hello. Rude, unreasonable, bossy, hostile, and deceptive, combined with an attitude of "I'm the customer" that stinks like sewage.
Somehow, I manage to make friends and sell lots of cars. I won't get into the long hours, multiple objections, insulting offers, and wild mood swings I encounter anymore.
Try to put my shoes on and imagine the environment. Yes....I chose this profession, but every thread I seem to read on here only paints one side, which is biased and unfair. I work hard, play hard, and live well.
But some of you sure make it much harder than it should be.
1) for the base price (before TTL, but including "delivery"), i have been quoted prices between $25,370 and $26,100. The three best deals are at about $25,400-$25,500, and the difference seems to be whether they have to do a dealer transfer or not (one claimed a $100 xfer fee). is this a good price?
2) two managers have told me that $25,000 is their "invoice" price. i certainly do not believe them. edmunds says $24,000, but if you add delivery, that's about $24,600. i'm just curious about the reality. comments?
3) i'm looking for some add-ons. specifically, body side molding, front splash guards, door visors, and black side steps. this is where i have been hoping to cut some fat, but i have not been so lucky. i estimate my "best" cost for these items to be about $650 -- that is, i think this might be a reasonable price to pay (comments?). i'm not sure about the labor, but i'm hoping i can get a cut in this area. is this possible?
4) are there any comments on the add-ons that i have selected? any added suggestions? any ones that aren't really worth it?
4) the best offer i have had so far for the configuration in #3 is $26615... the dealer broke it down as $25,600 for the car and $1015 for the add-ons. The OTD price is $28,800 (1,930 for sales tax, 200 for title and license, and 55 for doc fees). fwiw, the tax is accurate (i.e., local tax at my residence applies), and the 200+55 is consistent for dealers around here. does anyone see any fat i can cut off the price here?
5) i have two aggressive salespeople who still need to get back to me (one was off today, the other needed to ask a finance person for OTD prices), and a few more distant dealerships that i can contact. unless i get some additional info from here, i am thinking that i can only get the price to $26,300 or so with the add-ons but before TTL.
6) i have pre-approved financing via my credit union. one salesperson (the deal in #4 above) said that s/he wanted me to sign honda financing papers "in case my financing didn't go through". this sounds like complete BS to me, and actually sounds like a kind of bait-and-switch tactic. s/he made some kind of comment about "if you drive the car off the lot today...". while i want to get my hands on the car ASAP, i am NOT willing to risk getting suckered into financing i don't want. comments on this and how it reflects on the salesperson?
thanks in advance for any and all comments (even from honda13sales, ;-) )
that being said, i think managing this kind of BS attitude is part of your job, and it probably is one of the variables that separates the great sales staff from the merely "good". i wish you luck in your endeavors.
(1) Our dealership is at $1000 over MSRP, and salesmen get it regularly on such hard-to-find CRVs. It's all about who has the car and color. Internet is at MSRP.
(2) see above
(3) If you try and even succeed on "stealing" a car, expect to pay "full pop" for accessories. You can't bleed everything dry.
(4) Accessories depend on the buyer, everyone is different. Some things mean more than to others.
(5) Want to cut the fat after stealing a car? Consider a lower trim level, dealership is "all-in" at this point.
(6) Is it really worth the time and aggravation to travel a long distance to save a few hundred bucks? Maybe to some. But consider time in the equation. Also, I'd prefer to spend my money in my local community, as long as it makes reasonable sense.
(7) She wanted you to sign an Option Contract. What that is, is a contract that binds you to Honda's terms, in lieu of your own financing. Usually 7-10 days for you to go with your own financing. Of course, many people lie about having their own financing . She's trying to make a sale, period.
Hope this helps
I accept your wish of good luck.
Regards
It depends on the salesman you encounter. Some are more "enabled" than you think. They are trusted and can make relatively final decisions. Absolutely final? Usually no. Runners? Not like you think.
anyway, thanks for the response. i found your reply to be very informative. the "option contact" info is especially good and puts me at ease on that matter.
the distance thing is not such an issue for me. all the local dealers suck, so i'm driving at least 45 mins to the nearest "quality" dealer. if i have to drive more, it's not a big deal since i can piggyback other errands and amusements onto that trip.
one follow-up on the "option contract": assuming that my credit union financing is the actual financing used, would this "option contract" influence my credit rating in anyway (e.g., by showing up as "new credit")?
some confessions and comments:
- i was vague to one dealer (not a particularly competitive one) when i said i had a quote "a little over $25,000". i'm not sure if that counts as a lie, but it's certainly stretching it a bit.
- i told one dealer that i was waiting on three others to give me OTD prices, but i wanted to hear his OTD price (for timeliness). i think this sounded like BS, but it was actually true. the best price of these four will likely get my business.
- other than that, i've actually been brutally honest about financing, competing offers, my intentions, etc. i have no problems giving a dealer/salesperson a reasonable mark-up on their product, but the auto transaction process is so opaque (even with all of the e-info available) that i am not exactly sure what that number is. what i do know is that most car salesmen i know (mostly friends of friends) are on the constant lookout for suckers and have no issues fleecing the suckers when they are found. personally, this is what motivates me to be aggressive in this process -- i don't want to be a sucker with my money.
- fwiw, i play a lot of (winning) poker, and i know what it means to separate a sucker from his money. this is further motivation not to be a sucker.
- i like most of the honda dealers. most of them have simply said "here's my price". when i have offered a low (but reasonable) price, most have simply said that i should take that price if i could get it -- end of discussion. the four dealers i am currently negotiating with came right out with their competitive prices.
- that being said, some of the dealers are not really competitive. as honda13sales alluded to, however, they may not really need to compete. i honestly don't understand this aspect of the car business -- i would think a sale with a small profit is better than none at all. my guess is that some of these salespeople are leaving money on the table, but for the most part they don't need to be competitive to sell the CRVs they have on their lot (unless they have a green tea one... lolololol). maybe they are only interested in the "suckers" or the "whales" who serve up the hefty margins. any insights into the process would be appreciated.
- i actually like the green tea color, but i won't touch it since every salesperson i've spoken to treats it like the plague.
anyway, thanks for the great forum and great responses.
Only an opinion.
I have no idea what the supply/demand situation is in the Bay Area but why don't you simply go in, make an offer, and see what happens.
It's the MARKET that determines what cars sell for!
Anybody know how long trip across the pond takes? Second, once I it hits portland Oregan, any guess how long it would take to get to Philly, PA? Just curious. I was given no ETA.
i suppose i am also trying to figure out exactly what the "real" margins are, but i don't really see how this makes my car buying experience more complicated. as i said before, i am willing to give the dealers a reasonable margin, i just don't want it to be excessive. the range of "excessive" must, of course, factor in supply and demand.
also, i would prefer to make reasonable offers so as not to waste my time or the dealers' time. this is why i am posting. as i mentioned before, since the auto sales process is so opaque, it's not really clear to me what a "reasonable offer" is.
i was actually hoping that you (isellhondas) specifically could provide some feedback that would make this process a bit more transparent without giving away trade secrets.
i've read most of the past two months of posts, and this is the end of the process for me. and and all help is appreciated.
edmunds is 24,000 or so for the car i'm looking at (before options), but no one will even consider offers of 25000 (outside of TTL but including delivery fee). as isellhonda mentioned, there are likely some supply and demand issues that influence this range quite a bit.
i'll probably have a report tonight.
CRV's are hot right now and for good reason. Make and offer that you are comfortable with. If they take it, great, if not, you offered too little.
It doesn't have to be a ardous process.
And they are HOT for a good reason. What would that reason be?
I don't care one bit what a merchant may have paid for the product he sells. The item is either a good value to me or it is not. What if the dealer won a contest and got a CRV for free? What does that make it worth?
Good reason? They are great cars that represent a good value to a lot of people.
Should I stay away from green and red? I am in Florida. :confuse:
Buy what you like!
You really need to leave tax and license out of this because this can vary greatly between states.
Don't know how long it takes to get back East, but it will probably sit in the Port of Wilmington for a few days before you get it. That's what happened to my CRV.
If you can pay cash, great, and if you can't, get your financing ready through your bank or credit union so that you can write a check for the car BEFORE YOU SET FOOT IN THE DEALERSHIP.
Next, Go to Carsdirect.com and get an online quote. They will beat any offer that has been made by a dealership because they have pre-negotiated the price using more leverage than you will ever be able to muster.
Once you get the email from carsdirect, call the broker there and ask for a better number. They say that they don't dicker, but that is B.S. My telephone quote was much lower than my online quote and stayed the same for days, despite the fact that the online price continued to move upward throughout the week.
Next, call up the dealerships in your area, tell them the price that carsdirect quoted you (or don't), and then TELL THEM how much they need to beat Carsdirect by in order for you to waste your time dealing with the dealership.
FYI, THE DEALERSHIP HAS TO CUT CARSDIRECT IN ON THE DEAL, SO JUST TELL THEM THAT YOU WANT THE MONEY THAT THEY WERE GOING TO GIVE TO CARSDIRECT OR YOU HAVE NO REASON NOT TO GO THROUGH CARSDIRECT.
Translation: Despite the fact that Carsdirect simply puts you together with a dealership (You drop off your OTD check to the dealership.), the sales people don't get pats on the back when the deal is done through Carsdirect unless they're able to upsell you a bunch of crap that you don't need.
In other words, these guys are currently fighting the inevitable extinction of business as usual, and will beat Carsdirect's price if they have the car that you want because otherwise, you'll get it WITHOUT THEM, which would only serve to reinforce Management's ever-growing feeling that the Internet will ultimately relegate car salesmen to selling nothing but those used cars that don't happen to get sold over the Internet.
The bottom line is that I was B.S.-ed by every dealer about how hard these things were to keep in stock despite the fact that I found the exact model that I wanted every single week at multiple dealerhips. (I'll post a recounting of one of my more humorous dealership experiences tomorrow when I have more time...) Granted, I live in LA where there are a lot of dealerships, but HERE'S THE GREAT THING. If you don't have a lot of dealerships where you live from which to draw your desired model, Carsdirect will find the car elsewhere and deliver it TO YOUR DOOR.
Purchase Price $27,300
(before tax, processing fee, title and license)
add this to it and it comes to $28,428
EX-L 4WD
above price includes freight, handling & delivery
including these added options
Mud Guards
Wheel Locks
Cargo Tray
Moon Roof Visor
Rear Spoiler
Wood Grain Kit
Roof Rack
So is $27,300 a good deal?
I am ready to buy. Also, dealers says will have to order and could take up into June!
If not then it is not a good price. I got my EX-4WD without leather seats for 23,359 that is 400 bucks above invoice + destination handling and I received it in less than 2 weeks time.
Invoice+S&H price of EX-L 4WD with Navi is 26,500. So if your CR-V is with Navigation, then it is a good purchase, otherwise not.
Oh yeah, you are adding some additional options, check out the prices of these accessories at H and A. and add them to Invoice price and see how much extra you are paying. Anything at around 500-600 above invoice is a good price.
I’m no economist but there is a fundamental thing called “supply and demand” or perhaps “supply and desire.” Some say there is no shortage of CR-V’s. I don’t know whether that’s true or not, but there sure seems to be a demand for them.
I think everyone approaches a new auto purchase differently. Some want to be able to brag about the deal they got and how they worked the system. To them I say, BRAVO! But if you do a little homework, find the car you want, can afford it and have some trust in the auto maker, the salesman and the dealership, then buy it and enjoy it.
Oh yeah, remember "Time is Money," "Life is Short," etc., etc.