BMW 3-Series 2006

307web · May 2004

It could be somewhat higher since most people were buying the 3-Series where spending over $32K with the options of premium package, leather and a few other options. BMW could make the base model standard equipment closer to the way most dealers option the car. I could see it starting at around $30-$31K instead of $28K, but with more standard equipment.

The 2 series is not a substitute for a 325 sedan since it's smaller and won't have a very useable back seat at that small size. So far, we are not even sure the 2 series is going to come to the US ever.
People are going to be cross shopping with the CTS, G35, TL, ES330 and C230 and the new 3-Series needs to be in the general price range as the others, just as it is now.
The $30-$35K entry level luxury sedan market is probably not something BMW wants to throw away.
There a limited number of people who are desperate enough to pay "any price" just because it is a BMW.

kyfdx · May 2004

But, last year at my local dealer, almost every '03 325i on the lot had leather, premium, auto, metallic paint and stickered for $34,895.

It is great that BMW lets you pick and choose, but I would say this is the market they are building for, and these are '03 prices, which have since gone up about $1K.

And, there have always been competitors for the 3-series. And there still are.. Comparably equipped, the BMW has always been more expensive than any of the domestic or Japanese competitors. With the weakness of the dollar in comparison to the Euro, there is even more upward price pressure.

As sunilb so eloquently contradicted himself, just look at the new 5-series pricing.

regards,
kyfdx

307web · May 2004

There has always been some competition, but the competition was very weak until the last few years.
So, I didn't say it would have to stop being more expensive when comparably equipped. However, you can get it for the same price if you give up options. Regardless of the MSRP, they are being discounted now with dealer incentives and frequent lease deals. Those discounts would go away with a new model, but there is no reason for the MSRP to go up by a large amount.
Buyers don't really care about the Euro unless they are only cross-shopping with other European cars or are one of the people who must have a BMW at any cost. People with unlimited amounts to spend may be looking at cars above a 3 Series.
BMW can raise their base price from $29K to $37K if they want and shrug their shoulders and point to the Euro, but they will lose more sales to the non-European competition if the do.

dewey · May 2004

Luxury cars are not immune to pricing pressures. I can recall during the late 80's/early 90's when BMW and Mercedes were raising their prices in quite a hefty manner to reflect the higher Deutsche Mark. As a result of these price rises, both German companies lost quite a bit of their market share to the newly introduced Lexus, Infiniti and Acura models. It was only during the mid 90's that the German car makers started setting their prices to compete(although they still sold at a premium)with Japanese models. And it is no coincidence that both German automakers enjoyed a bit of revival since the mid-90's. So pricing is everything---unless you are seeking a Maybach.

drkeng · May 2004

From what I've heard, new models come out in Europe 6 months before the US. New 3 series sedans maybe as early as fall 04, but probably not until spring 05. Coupe (4 series--being developed on its own chasis, not just a 2 door sedan)probably not until at least fall 05. Therefore, I just replaced my 00 323 with a new 04 330 until the new convertible comes out; hopefully will get one in spring 07 in time for summer.

jrock65 · May 2004

Will the new 3.5L be a V6 or an I6?

blueguydotcom · May 2004

Why such a big engine? 3.5? They can squeeze 350 HP from a 3.2 (M3 CSL), so what's up with this 3.5 thing? 400 HP?

sunilb · May 2004

More displacement would give more torque across a broader range, right? I think it's a good idea... though, I don't get the sense that the 3.5 would be in lieu of the 3.0 but maybe as a step between the 3.0 and M3.

kyfdx · May 2004

NO V-6... inline

m4d_cow · May 2004

3.5l is probably a v8 though, considering that BMW has a 3.5 V8 for the european and asian 7 series (735i).
itll be hard to predict the prices though, they might hold the line there since theres a huge competition against other brands, especially Infiniti G35. Also, Audi A4, Acura TL, infiniti and IS300 really threaten Bimmers sales.
Im expecting more standard features since BMW is really pennypinching in this area.

307web · May 2004

I would expect them to raise the prices somewhat and be at the higher range of the competition, but if they raise them dramatically to where they are significantly out of the range of TLs, G35s and CTSs, then they have a problem unless they have no desire to maintain market share.

blueguydotcom · May 2004

BMW is penny pinching in the features area? Not to enthusiasts. I didn't buy my car for the features - I bought it for what it feels like behind the steering wheel.

beemerrlz3 · May 2004

Just wondering if anyone here thinks that BMW will produce a 4 Dr M3's again in the future. There are probably be suitors out there, like me :-) who cannot afford an M5.

dewey · May 2004

That is precisely why I bought my 3 series almost 6 years ago. Performance/Handling was my priority. When I compared my 323i with a 1999 Acura TL they were both priced about the same. Despite the Acura TL having far more features than my spartan and utilitarian Bimmer, the choice was a non-brainer.

In order that I and many other enthusiasts can afford a BMW, I hope they will continue offering high performance cars with limited features. Keep the prices down,while continuing to zing the people who do not mind opening their wallets for additional features.

blueguydotcom · May 2004

Amen. I don't need navi or quad zone climate control. a 6 speed and plenty of power please with 4 doors.

m4d_cow · May 2004

nah im not expecting those, im expecting std HID, 17" wheels, and HK speakers on 325is

maybe im just being greedy but i just dont think its worth spending extra bucks to get a 330i, which have 17" and HK speakers as std

blueguydotcom · May 2004

As someone with HK it's total, complete trash.

17s? Nah, I prefer the smaller, stiffer sidewalls of the 18s. 17s don't have as much flex as 16s but it's still not enough.

As for the extra power, you're right the 330i doesn't have enough. It's a nice jump compared to the anemic power of a 235 but it's still far short of what i'd prefer. i'd like something on the order of over 300hp.

And no to the cushy "sport" suspesnion on the 325 and 330i. My ZHP is still too soft. gimme an m3 level suspension.

m4d_cow · May 2004

man thats quite a lot you're expecting

then you might love the taste of M3 CSL, it a darn harsh ride, and noisy as hell, but its hella fast and got over 360 hp in it

blueguydotcom · May 2004

If BMW had an M3 4 door, I'd own it.

m4d_cow · May 2004

BMW DID have the 4 door M3, but they stopped making it when E46 hit the market

saugatak · May 2004

you should check out the Caddy CTS-V. won the C&D comparo

blueguydotcom · May 2004

I'd sooner die than ever own a Caddy or any Chevy. Especially that one. I drove a manual CTS when it hit the market. GM has no idea how to build a luxury performance sedan.

wale_bate1 · May 2004

Oh, I think they're catching on.

I for one applaud the turn around at Caddy. I may not be able to warm to the style, and I think they have some furlongs to make up in interiors (haven't seen this year's though), but they are definitely tracking on the philosophy and getting the results. No way I thought I'd ever see a US sedan place above midpack in a comparo like that.

I may not be interested in paying for one, but kudos to them nonetheless.

Kirstie_H · May 2004

Let's stick to talking about the upcoming 3-series, please.

planoml · May 2004

The spyshots don't indicate a great deal of change from the current style, but that could be a matter of prespective. It seems more evolutionary than the 7 & 5 revolutionary changes. I know most of you will not like this, but I think I am begining to like the new styling. I have been holding on to my '95 325, for almost a decade. Enjoyed every mile of it. I am now looking forward to the new one. I believe the new models will come out next year around August? Anyone care to expand.

m4d_cow · May 2004

honestly the new styling is not that bad, except for the 5's rear end, which is plain horrible
and the 1 series styling is ok for hatchback, but for a sedan its gonna look kinda dorky

i personally like the current 3 a lot and wouldnt want them to change too much lol.
Im still waiting for more spy photos, if anyone got some more plz let me know

blueguydotcom · May 2004

I used to think the new 5 looks like ice cream that melted and was refrozen. now I love the look. including the back.

I still don't like the interior or the moving of the window switches off the console but the 545 and M5 call to me.

gordonwd · May 2004

I think I understand BMW's styling direction a bit better after reading some articles in Autoweek. It turns out that most of the recent designs were not done personally by Bangle, but rather by a guy name Peter Van Hooydonk who has been working out of their California design studios. So that's the problem: these cars aren't German designs after all, but are from the California school of design, done by a Dutchman under the supervision of an American.

California is also where most of the Americanized Japanese cars are also designed, which might be why the 5-series looks a lot like them, and maybe why they're a bit wimpy looking.

wale_bate1 · May 2004

Interesting thing, to me, is that the basic shapes expressed in the Bangle-mobiles (or Peter platforms; interesting tidbit there, Gordon) are actually quite pleasing overall, and do present an impressively business-like and athletic aspect. The silhouettes are appealing. It's the surface manipulation and detailing that loses it for me. All the unnecessary or misplaced creasing, cut lines and surface differentiation, IMO, ruin what otherwise would be some particularly tasty shaping.

Here is a personal lament for the future of the three: rumor has it that the touring will be dropped here in favor of the X (confirm or deny if you so desire). With RWD compact sport wagons already in such short supply here in the US, it looks as though yet another may bite the dust. Since my current wagon is likely discontinued in its next model iteration, that will leave me with... none. :-(

I'm also not happy with the increasing size of these platforms, but that's another story.

So it appears I may be forced to embrace the dark side and enter the four-ring circus of the Auto Union. If I must give up Right Wheel Drive, perhaps I can be consoled by 0-60 in 5.7 quattro seconds?

Perhaps. [sigh]

m4d_cow · May 2004

gordonwd: yeah ive read about that too, but still its weird how americans dont like their design if theyre actually americanized, and yet Bangle's the one who agreed with the design...

the z4, 7 series and especially the new 6 series are quite nice. but i still say somethings wrong with the current 5, shapes a bit like honda accord to me...
can any of you imagine it if the new 3 will shape like the current 5? front's ok but that dorky rear end....

dewey · May 2004

Wate Bate1, I hope you are wrong about the 3 series touring being dropped in favor of the X3. The 3 series touring(2.5) is far more superior in performance/handling than an equivalent X3 2.5 or (3.0). In fact after driving my 99 323 for almost 6 years I was looking forward to buying a future touring. Despite having a family of 4, I hate the idea of driving a mini SUV. I would rather use a shoe-horn to squeeze everyone in my current car than drive a new X3.
If your prediction is true, I would most likely seek a future Passat wagon or a Volve XC70 vehicle and say Aufwiedersehen to BMW.

wale_bate1 · May 2004

I hope like heck I'm wrong too, Dewey!

No two ways the better drive is the touring. I wonder indeed if there's any more real practicality to owning the X over a T. I'm not interested in a comparo, since I wouldn't go SUV anyway, but I'd think they'd be awfully close for real world daily duty.

Unfortunately, majority of our brethren here in the States will put cash on the counter for just about anything non-wagon, as opposed to the rest of the (more sensible) world where breaks, sportbacks, wagons are embraced joyfully! [-( So from a business model perspective, the rumor would seem to have legs (I've heard no one contradict it anywhere). What's funny is that they're all basically just buying tall wagons anyway!

Perhaps that will change. I certainly hope so. I've never been as satisfied with any car format as I am now...

m4d_cow · May 2004

hell the x3 is practically BMWs biggest failure this yr, sure it has x-drive, but on the other hand it rides harshly, ugly and somehow cheap looking
about the touring model being dropped, i think its because it sells poorly compared to the other models, but replacing it with the x3?....better swap in the x-drive into the new 3 touring, as like you said the X3 is not more than a taller wagon anyway

kyfdx · May 2004

I know you like the wagons... spotted one on the way to work today..

1982 Mercury Cougar.. Villager edition.. with the woody panels.

Man..how come they don't make these anymore!!

regards,
kyfdx

dewey · May 2004

kyfdx, BMW's Mini Division will be introducing a bigger Wagon(at least bigger than the Cooper Series), which will include woody panels(or probably simulated wood panels) as an option.

dewey · May 2004

For some reason, the BMW touring sells quite well where I am. I do not know the Canadian sales statistics, but I do see quite a few tourings in Toronto. We Canucks tend to be abit more unpractical than you guys down south---- SUVs are more adaptable to our Northern environment (unless you live in Alaska)

wale_bate1 · May 2004

LOL!

I think you've got me confused with Andre, kyfdx!

I wonder if anyone's making woody panels for the S4 Avant?...
}-]

wale_bate1 · May 2004

Somehow it seems it's only here in the US that wagons have some sort of stigma.

Ah well.

Anybody else concerned about platform creep besides me? Will the three become in reality a five and be replaced in the lineup (effectively) by the one or two or whatever they decide we're going to get and whatever they decide they'll actually call it?

Signed,
Confused in Contra Costa
;-)

kyfdx · May 2004

I wouldn't say that I'm "concerned", but one of the reasons for us buying a 3-series is that it was small and sporty. My wife drove Accords for years, and while they kept getting better and better, they eventually became a mid-size. The new Accord is bigger than my Acura Legend!!

I'm not sure why BMW is so reticent about bringing the 1-series to the US. It seems like it will slot in nicely between the MINI and the 3-series pricewise. And, if the 3-series keeps getting bigger, it would be my preferred model. I understand their problem with hatches and wagons (though I like them), but why not bring over the sedan and coupe?

Maybe they are worried about brand de-valuation? I guess most MINIs are 3rd cars for BMW buyers. Maybe they don't want to deal with the great unwashed?

regards,
kyfdx

wale_bate1 · May 2004

Interesting point.

My wife is crazy about the Mini. I would say I'm very enthusiastic as well, but not at the "gotta have it" stage. It would be a third car for us (her mostly; my car is already small and sporty) if we did it, and I think I've got her convinced that waiting for the drop-top is the way to go.

The 1-wagon (of course) is the one the tickles my fancy, and not least because of size.

I just hate the thought of the three growing out of its compact size, without a replacement (1-series) to fill the hole. Some of us bought compacts because they're in fact compact after all!

BTW, I had an '87 Legend sedan; the "Accord on steroids" (Car and Driver). Self-fulfilling prophecy, in retrospect...
;-)

player4 · May 2004

kyfdx · May 2004

I like it... but I don't want it to be any bigger than the current 3.

307web · May 2004

But are they real or Photoshop fakes?

wale_bate1 · May 2004

Amen.

Is it just me, or does that butt look just a touch Saturn L200?

The touring spy shots look pretty tasty, once you get through all the disguise pieces.

kyfdx · May 2004

Speaking of the Saturn L-series.. Everytime I see one, I think its the new Saab 9-3.

Those two full sized shots look like photoshopped 5-series.. but, those spy shots look real.

regards,
kyfdx

player4 · May 2004

They might be photoshops, but as you can see, through the camo in the spy pics those two bluie pics might be the closest thing to the real 05 3'er those pics are 1st impressions and they are not bad, but the X3's taillamps are just not good for a sedan!

kyfdx · May 2004

Thats okay.. I like the 5-series more and more.. If the new 3-series takes its design cues from it, I can live with it.... With a little adjustment to the rear end.

regards,
kyfdx

307web · May 2004

There more I look at it, the more I can tell there is no "MIGHT BE" about it. They definitely are fake. There are no undisguised models driving around being photographed this early.
The spy shots are probably real, but you can't tell much by them.

player4 · May 2004

I said they were photoshops, of course they are. But looking at the spy pics it all comes down to those shops! look at the headlamps, taillamps, sides, hood, and trunk in the spy pics and as you can see it all matches! ;-)

sunilb · May 2004

another disjointed model from the folks at BMW!

BMW 3-Series 2006

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