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I bought my ZHP as it met my needs for a 4 door sport sedan. The fact that I get grouped for insurance purposes with mainly buyers of an automatic transmission equipped luxury car rather than exclusively with buyers of a sports car is a good thing.
Cosmetically, the ZHP looks like a 4 door M3 without the quad tailpipes. The real difference is under the hood: 333 vice 235 Hp and a redline of 8000 versus 6800 rpm. IMHO, if you are operating your BMW where this makes a difference, your sports car should be on a track. 0-60 under 6 seconds and a top speed of 155 mph is plenty quick for street driving.
Jim
Some other schmoe at BMW is responsible for i-drive. Even more than Bangle, Mr. i-drive has gotta go.
This car was stunning from the front and side! However, the rear end was a bit plain compared to the current (think similar to spy photos of the 1 series) and the inside was less "cockpit" like compared to the current model. The dash kind of reminded me of the new 5 series except interestingly enough there was NO I-Drive. There was a pop-up Navigation system like the new X3 has. I don't know if this will be the final design but I personally like the pop-up style or in-dash with touch screen like the Honda's have.
Hopefully the Navigation technology at BMW will catch up by the time my next new 3 comes out. It would be nice to have the ability to use in-dash CD and satellite radio in conjunction with the DVD Nav system. I have not used the current BMW system but hear it stinks.
Anyway, the car is a real looker. Very aggressive in the front end. I have read about the possible engines in the above posts but have also read that there will be new 3.0 and 2.5 engines with direct injection (like the new Audi V6) that will produce significantly more horsepower while remaining naturally aspirated and keeping or imporoving on the current engine fuel economy.
I am on the fence right now in purchasing the new Audi 2005 A6 or wait for the 2005 3 series. So, I am very interested in hearing any more details from your evaluation.
Any recent ideas when they will be available????????????
Sounds like they did not give you an idea of the possible / available engine options. Even if they only offered the 05' 3.0 as a direct injection like the Audi's FSI for 05'; that will be great.
Here is why: First if you compare the 04' 3.0 A6 to the 05' 3.2 A6, here are the stats. The 3.0 puts out 220hp and goes 0-60 in 7.9 sec.(Tiptronic) The 05' with the new FSI/direct injection has 255hp and goes 0-60 in 6.9 sec.(Tiptronic)thus dropping the time by 1 sec.
So if the current 04' 3 series has a 3.0 225hp and hits 0-60 in 7.0 sec (Steptronic cause we are comparing apples to apples) and the 05'3 series gets the new FSI/Direct injection engine; then puts out even 30 more hp, then the 05' will have 255hp and the 0-60 time should drop down to the 6.0 range.
Both of the 05' engines will be lighter which also gives them an advantage over their prior year engine.
In my opinion, a 3 series loaded in the low to mid forties that hits 0-60 in 6 sec flat will be a nice ride. Don't bagledize it and i may wait. My other option is get the 4.2V8 on the new AudiA6 in Dec. and have the same 0-60 time for 8k more.
Third option is when they upgrade the A4 engine in 12 months from now with the 3.2FSI engine. That will bring the 0-60 down to the 6.5 range with the weight difference compared to the A6.
Let me know what you guys think!
Wrong. Take a look at a Honda or Toyota interior. No way there's a thousand buttons, not even close.
And I know several people who won't buy a BMW with i-drive, like 80% of my relatives. They're all trading in for X5s now, precisely because it doesn't have i-drive.
Given that the 3-series is BMW's bread and butter, I think BMW voted with its wallet when it decided not to make i-drive mandatory, but an option.
Didn't RRoyce (the car dealer) say that BMW's residuals are getting hammered b/c of i-drive?
If people aren't buying your cars b/c of i-drive, isn't that enough reason to can it? i-drive was a solution for a problem that didn't exist.
All BMW had to do is get rid of the useless electronic functions (MB is getting rid of 600), which would mean there's a need for fewer buttons.
Well said, as usual. BTW, I'm glad you and your wife appreciated the "moo-moo" joke. Your wife sounds pretty cool.
BTW in terms of technology BMW isn't the only auto maker to get hammered with introducing new advances. I recently read a review of the new Ferrari and you know what, Ferraris version of active steering got the same type of review as BMWs version. So no matter if you pay 500K or 50K for a car maybe there are just some things that are sacred.
"1000 buttons, 1 click. One iDrive button, 1000 clicks"
lol true that, true that...
regards,
kyfdx
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You are the only person I have ever met who prefers i-drive. I'm wondering how many on Edmunds share your sentiements.
It keeps the dash much cleaner and you only have to set the options once.
You only have to set the controls once with buttons as well. And what's the purpose of keeping the dash cleaner? I like buttons on dashboards.
The solution is already out there. Eliminate 600 useless electronic functions, like MB is planning to, and there will be no need for i-drive.
I like it. iDrive is fun and easy to use. within 15 minutes of messing with it I had no problems finding anything.
That said, I still want redundant HVAC and radio controls.
I think all cars have useless electronic functions. While I don't know for sure I can't believe MB is the only manufacturer on the face of the earth to put on more silicon/programming than is reasonable for the mission/function of the car.
At some point, they just can't seem to identify an obvious mistake (Pontiac Aztek...) because of pride, stubbornness, or money invested. After all this time and consistent negative feedback, BMW won't back away from iDrive. I can't believe no one at Audi said, "Hey, anyone else think this big mouth grill looks awkward?"
pearl: yeah i hear ya, the eyebrow thing is a big turnoff for me as well (on the 7 series), while on the 5 the butt is the turnoff. well like i said people still cant learn to love the bangle styling, unlike what bmw expected, which is why theyre preparing a new 7 soon.
rqc: im getting the impression german auto makers are trying to set up a new trend of styling, which unfortunately turns out a big failure. audi's new front grill looks horrible on A8, while it looks ok on the A6, i wonder why...
kdshapiro: no i dont think MBs the only one to use too much electronic programmings in their cars, but as far as i know theyre the 1st one to admit their mistake messing too much w/ electronics and i say thats a good thing
hopefully bmw will be the next one to realize this.
And as far as the I-Drive? Please. It's a silly, unnecessary, badly conceived and poorly executed device that takes away from the real driving experience: Keeping your eyes on the road. That's why I bought a 2003 E39. The layout was beautifully conceived, ergonomically correct and once one sets all of the buttons to one's liking, you're done, so that you can do what's most important in the car: DRIVE! I realize some will argue that one can do the same thing with I-Drive. Maybe that's true. But I work on a computer all day. The last thing I want to do, is scroll through protocols before, during and after I'm driving!
Innovation for improvement? I'm all for it. Innovation just to be new and different is a recipe for failure. Here is where the old axiom DOES apply: IF IT AIN'T BROKE---DON'T FIX IT!!!
I'm sorry, but in my opinion, BMW BUNGLED themselves in a BANGLED mess.
Well then there wouldn't be any innovation would there? No it wasn't broke but it was getting dated. The benchmark E46 after these many years look dated compared to newer models. BMW can't stay in one place while everybody else moves forward. The new designs move forward nicely.
The issue is with the aluminum in the body frame. Yucch.
I think that we are probably looking at the new 3's launch about a year from now in 2005 as an 06. I also think that the direct injection enhancement to the current size engines will be the direction that is taken and that the 330i will have about 250Hp. Consider that my 01 330i with sport pkg / steptronic feels so fast and powerful this should be amazing!
I know what you mean about trying to decide between the Audi and the BMW. Back on 2001 I drove the 330i and A4 3.0 but I never looked back after the BMW. In fact, the 325i was more exciting to drive than the A4. But, the Audi's are exquisite automobiles and you should really make your decision on style / design preference in additon the the engine and dynamics in order to be happy long-term. If you LOVE looking at the Audi and will for a long time then go with it. It's a fabulous car. I recently talked to a local Audi dealer here in So. Cal and was told that the 2005 A4 will have a slightly re-designed exterior and more updates on the interior to include MMI as in the new A6. I do think they will wait about another year to upgrade the engine to direct injection as to not hurt the new A6 sales but who knows for sure.
I would recommend getting a short term lease on either the current 330i Now or the 2005 A4 this fall (if you want the MMI upgrade). You will definately get the best price on the 330i and will be able to enjoy it for 2-3 years until the next 3 is more widely available and has had some important upgrades and gotten any bugs or upgrades (and sky-high pricing) out.
After leaving my evaluation of the new 3 I felt extremely happy, thrilled actually to be driving off in my 330i. I may even end up keeping it for 10 years or more and just get a second cheap little car to use for daily commuting. The new 3 is going to be spectacular but I am willing to wait a couple more years to decide if I even want to give up what I think is the perfect automobile for me. I have never had a single problem with my car (save for a cracked fog-light from the freeway) and it still looks incredible and will for many years to come. I sometimes wish it had more features as the 2001 is not as upgradable to Sirius or Ipod as is the 2002+ but driving and looking at it takes it all away. OK, i'm rambling but let me know what you think of my opinions.
My question is for those who have a 330xi (which I have yet to test drive) and how AWD handles in snow? I live in Lost Angeles and hope to take my future automobile up to the mountains during the winter. I know it might be overkill but my last automobile was declared a total loss during a rainstorm (yup, I need all the help I can get!).
Also any news on the refreshed 2005 BMW 3 series??? I am about 1 1/2-2 months away from making my purchase and wanted to see if I could stretch my decision time (I could you it to leverage a lower cost on an "old" 2004 330xi.
Cheers!
Come on man. Give me a break. You call that innovation? I call it up selling gimmickry. If you like it, fine. But don't take what I said out of context. I was very, very clear in my post. Re-read it.
As for the car getting dated? I love when people say that or take that from automotive magazines. Sure, it's time for a change, but the CORRECT evolutionary change that evolves out of what the the successful benchmark sedan has proven itself to be and not some radical, but over the top changes, just to "appear" as if you're one step ahead of the competition.
It's funny, about certain cars being "dated." I bet 10 years from now, enthusiasts are going to recondition their cars, because the E39 and E46 have become classics. Can't say that for the E60.
otoh while [non-permissible content removed] car makers changes design every few yrs to keep up with th latest styling, german cars design can have 1 style that last quite a while, and still look good 5-7 yrs later, so it can either be "dated" or "timeless"
bmw and i-drive makers will call it "innovation" for sure, like bmwmrc said, its actually selling gimmicks. imo, bmw should look at audi's MMI, though its still a bit complex, i call that a progress.
In my eyes there is nothing more beautiful than the styling of older dated models of both BMW and Mercedes. My wife drives a 1983 Mercedes300(a family heirloom) and visually I think it is a beauty(except for its diesel tractor noise).
Evolutionary styling is what makes dated BMW & Mercedes models easy to look at(Bangle are you listening)
In my eyes the most ugliest cars are dated models from Toyota, Honda, Nissan....and any other maker that follows the routine of radically changing their styling every few years.
Yes, the Acura TL to a "T".
I would postulate you don't know about the crystal ball in the future. The E46 is dated because it is. Is it destined to be a classic, I believe so, but I don't confuse that with the fact the style needs a face-lift.
I for one welcome the integration of future technological innovations and the driving experience.
Yes, I know exactly your position. And I would "postulate" that you don't know "about the crystal ball in the future" either.
One last observation: The Acura TL is a product of Japanese reverse engineering. It is not radical, nor are the innovations so new and so different that it will become the "benchmark" of the newest collection of sports sedans. Acura, like Infiniti, like Lexus are keenly and acutely in touch with the market and what the Germans are doing with their cars. OTOH, I wish the Germans would be a little more in touch with their Japanese competitors instead of just themselves. If so, maybe we wouldn't have been insulted with that Bangled bungled mess!
Within these parameters, BMW has two all-new inline sixes to offer the world, starting this fall. I'll start with the only one we'll get, at least for now — a 3.0 litre gasoline six, which debuts initially in the 6-Series coupe and sedan this fall, but which will surely work its way into the other model ranges in time.
The unique aspect of this engine is its composite engine block.
Now, before you start thinking plastic engine blocks, I should mention that BMW uses this word to denote that the block is made of a combination of aluminum and magnesium.
Magnesium is a wonderful metal if weight-saving is your goal — it's about 30 per cent lighter than aluminum. Yet it is also about 30 per cent less strong, and will corrode if it comes in contact with engine coolant.
So a skeletal cylinder block is initially cast in aluminum, with a second casting process injecting molten magnesium around it.
The metallurgy is too complex to delve into here. It took some four years of research, including collaboration with the Canadian metals giant Noranda, which co-developed the magnesium alloy, to make it all work.
Suffice it to say that the end result is a solid structure that is about 25 per cent lighter than a conventional aluminum crankcase, and is the main reason why the new engine is some 10 kg lighter than the one it replaces.
If you think this all sounds like a lot of work to save a mere 10 kg, you aren't alone. But BMW knows, as Henry Ford did, that weight is the enemy of everything when it comes to performance.
And removing weight that sits directly over the front axle helps maintain the near-perfect weight distribution that BMW wants on all its cars, to enable sporty handling characteristics.
Another innovation is an electric coolant pump. Conventional belt-driven pumps work their hardest — hence, drain the most engine power — at higher engine speeds, when an engine doesn't typically need the help, because air flow through the engine bay aids in keeping temperatures down.
The electric pump can be shut off during warm-up, which speeds that critical process, to the benefit of emissions, performance, fuel economy and passenger comfort.
It is then switched on only when temperature sensors indicate the need.
Hollow camshafts aren't an entirely new idea. I mention BMW's here only because it was developed and produced (through hydroforming) by Linamar Corp., a Canadian company headquartered in Guelph that has established a plant in Germany to supply these components.
Maximum output of the new inline six gasoline engine is 258 horsepower, a useful 27 more than before, thanks largely to the lighter rotating components and modifications to the valve train and engine electronics, which allow a higher rated peak power engine speed — 6,600 rpm, versus 5,900 rpm.
Peak torque is 221 lb.-ft. from 2,500 to 4,000 rpm — about the same value as before, but the torque arrives earlier and sticks around longer.
Fuel consumption is about 12 per cent better too.
I don't have a crystal ball, but the current 3-series is still the benchmark in the entry-level luxo sports sedan category. Yes other companies have other innovations that make them compelling family sedans, but the 3er is the benchmark entry-level sports sedan in terms of form and function.
Thanks for the feedback, by the way I am up north of you in Santa Cruz. Anyway, I think it is between 3 series and A6 4.2.
Well, I have another 12-16 months to wait for the 3 series. You had a very good idea which I have already considered which is doing a short term lease on the current 3 series. Another option I thought of is picking up someone's lease that has 16 months left or so in perfect time when the 06' 3 series comes out.
Someone else mentioned the new 3 series will have a 258hp inline 6 with 221lb-ft torque. That would be a nice ride, an additional 27hp to the same car which will be a little lighter and bring down the Steptronic to a 6.0 sec 0-60.
Lots of decisions, I guess I will have to wait until 4th qtr this year, 1 to see what the A6 looks and prices and drives like, and 2 what the official word ( if they give it ) will be on the 3 series.
Thanks
The front-drive propulsion system of the TL will never make it truly competitive. Come back to debate when they add the SH-AWD from the next RL. Then maybe we'll talk.
I agree that bells and whistles are great but the E46 IS comprehensively equipped with plenty of options but this still does not take away from the fact that THIS CAR DRIVES BETTER THAN ANY COMPETITOR. They can copy some of the idea's and styling cues but there will always be the original, the real deal and you know it when you feel it on the road.
regards,
kyfdx
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Way too much brand identity. Like Chevy changing "Vette" to something else.
M4? Gosh, that just rolls off the tongue and conjures up all sorts of history about..uh..um.
At some point the Corvette name will sound really dated and retro.
I'm anything but a Vette fan but saying the name will retire because of old age is akin to announcing Porsche will switch the name of the 911 to the Zipper. Only when GM and Porsche go out of business will those names disappear.
Forgot to mention the last part here in my previous post. The new 3.0 and 2.5 engines will have direct injection and magnesium blocks and the article also stated that there will "likely" be a 3.6 liter V8 badged as a the 335i.
Just to note, recently car and driver noted that the new cars will all have 3-series nomenclatures.
I am waiting for the 2006 E90 comes out.
http://www.myusedauto.com/Used_Cars/2004-bmw-3-series.htm
The Zipper... I like that... "Hey baby, wanna ride in my Zipper?" Nah, maybe not.
Some all time worst names—Volare, Matador, Grenada, Avalon. Then again Volare could have worked with Lamborghini...
Some of the best—Mustang, Viper, Spyder...
"I don't like spiders and snakes,
and that ain't what it takes to love me,
you fool, you fool!"
–Jim Stafford
in response to your following question:
"Does this change the engine lineup then for the 2006 models?"
The 3.0 L info in my last message originated from BMW's "Engine Technology Day". This info relates to the new engine for the 630 not the 330. It is my speculation that the 3.0L engines for both the 630 and 330 will be similar if not identical.
It appears hp will increase and peak torque will remain the same for both 2.5 and 3.0 for 06 models. Exactly the opposite of what they did in 99.
I guess BMW is being more generous with hp since competition has become a bit more interesting than in the late 90s. Just heard that the 05 G35 coupe will have an increase in hp from 280 to 295. Very interesting indeed!
The "new" 3 series is actually a 2006 model. There is no way that is a real photo of an E90 interior.