BMW 3-Series 2006

blueguydotcom

I'd bet it will be at least a grand or two higher. BMW will justify it with slightly more standard equipment and of course an engine that's lightyears beyond the 2.5L.

Only time will tell...

carman123

"I believe that BMW would have no choice but to price the future 330 as a current 325. Otherwise the competition will get quite rough and BMW will lose its Sports Sedan Benchmark role."

This is what I was trying to say in my much longer post above, so thank you for stating it so clearly. BMW can't afford to have a another major redisgn and have sales go down like it did with the 5 series. Although, all they would need to do with the 5er is add more power: make the 3.0L standard and price it like the current 525 and I bet sales would increase dramatically. Making the ridiculous I-drive optional or getting rid of it all together would also help. I hope they leave I-drive off the new generation 3 series.

307web

i-Drive is expected, but it is not standard equipment so you don't have to wory about it if you don't want it.

dewey

"make the 3.0L standard and price it like the current 525 and I bet sales would increase dramatically"

The MSRP of the current 330 is almost 5k (US$) less than the 525. That would mean a base 330 would increase in price by over 14% to match the price of a 525. That kind of price hike would prevent me from buying a new 330.

blueguydotcom's estimate of a 1-2k would make ownership of a 330 quite possible for myself and most other former 325 drivers(who happen to be in the majority among BWW 3 series drivers).

dewey

"The MSRP of the current 330 is almost 5k (US$) less than the 525. That would mean a base 330 would increase in price by over 14% to match the price of a 525"

My above statement was incorrect! In fact a base 325 currently priced at about 28k(US$) would have to increase by 12k to equal the price of a 525. That would mean a base 3series would increase in price by 43%.

That kind of price hike would definitely kill off volume for the 3 series and cause a major exodus to competing brands(there will no shortage of competing brands in the future)

carman123

Sorry for confusing you. I meant for the 5 series: make the 3.0L standard and price it like the current 525. Just like I hope that the 3.O will become the standard engine for the 3 series. I could live with a 1 or 2k price increase over the current 325i if a 250hp 330i becomes the base model for the '06 redesign.

dewey

Now that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification!

kyfdx

Considering they offer 225HP now for a price premium of $5K, I don't think you are going to be too happy.. I don't know what size the new engine will be, but you can probably expect 200-215 HP in the base 3-series, and a price increase of about $1K-$2K.

BMW has always been expensive on a comparison basis to the competition, and I don't expect that to change.

regards,
kyfdx

planoml

The gent that participated in the survey felt that the target price would remain the same "more or less." He also goes on to say that BMW can't price themselves out of this category.

I agree with most of the comments, but feel that the 2 series will take up some of the "lower" end of the spectrum, and the 3 will move up a bit. Can we really expect to get a 330 at a 325 price?

307web

Of course, you can expect some price increase, but it shouldn't be that major since the new 330i is not equivalent in power to the current 330. It will be between the current 325 and 330 so the price will probably be in that range.
The 2 series is a subcompact. People are not going to pay even near the same price as a TL for a 2 series. I doubt if people would even pay as much as a TSX for the little 2 series coupe. Many people want a sedan and the 2 series won't be an option any more than a Mini is an option for people look for 3-Series "type" sedans.
A 2 series coupe cannot take over the position the current 325 is holding.
The new BMW 330i may be on the high end in cost compared to competing vehicles (for what you get), but it cannot be priced completely out of the range.

webby1

It appears that BMW is doing fine....at least in May.
http://autonet.ca/AutonetStories/Stories.cfm?storyID=12089

saugatak

2.8% sales increase is not a lot with a new redesigned 5-series out plus refreshes of X5, 7 series and brand new X3.

IMO, the slight increase in sales with so many new models and refreshes this year is not a good sign.

IMO, BMW should have updated its engines before introducing new models. A 250HP straight 6 as the base model would have done more for sales than a complete refresh.

webby1

You are probably right....I think the increase in total sales in Canada has a lot to do with the 1.9% on 320 and 2.9% on 325 and 3.3% on 330 financing. I am not sure if true but was told that BMW is going after market share and specifically after Audi.

When I compared a 3 yr lease on 330i vs TL the total cost for 3 yrs lease was the same. 330i listed 56,430 vs TL 41,750.
I got the 330i and I love it !

blueguydotcom

Those BMW leases are amazing.

dewey

"Can we really expect to get a 330 at a 325 price?"

Based on recent history the answer is yes!

My proof is in my garage. I bought my 99 BMW 323 with a 2.5L engine at a far lower price that what a 2.5L sold for during the 92 model year(BMW325). In addition my BMW was much improved vs. the 92 model. Although it is true that my 323 may not have the level of luxury features as the 92 325 model, my 323 compensates this deficiency with better performance/handling.

The same story above can apply in the future. In this case with a future 3.0L selling at a lower price than in prior years.

bmwccc

Blue Guy, it seems from your recent posts you are well informed about the upcoming 3 series in early 2005. It is my understanding it will be out around the April/May time frame. Does that sound right?

Also, do think it will have 2 different engines to offer, one standard and one optional higher horsepower? If so, what are the horses going to be etc?

When do you think the BMW official photos will come out ( Nov / Dec?)

Did you see the new 3 series video on Autospies? It showed the new 3 series ripping around some race track in Germany for about 2-3 minutes.

http://www2.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=2808&ca- tegoryId=1

or

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/video_gallery/video.php?id=38053

let me know if you can view this, if not i will send another link with other instructions. If you can see this, click the word "here" and the video will open, then click on the auto express sign and hold onto your seat. Takes a min. to load but worth it.

Let me know any other details you are aware of.

Thanks

bmwccc

blueguydotcom

Blue Guy, it seems from your recent posts you are well informed about the upcoming 3 series in early 2005. It is my understanding it will be out around the April/May time frame. Does that sound right?

I've got the same info as everyone else. Other forums have had reports from people seeing the car at little test things. I did this with the upcoming A6 a few months ago.

From the letter that's floating around it appears May 2005 we should see the 2006 3 series.

Also, do think it will have 2 different engines to offer, one standard and one optional higher horsepower? If so, what are the horses going to be etc?

reports differ. Most are suggesting 200+ for a base 3.0, 250-290 for a 3.5L high end. Of course the M's been long rumored to get a 4.0 400 hp V8.

When do you think the BMW official photos will come out ( Nov / Dec?)

Auto shows would be my bet when we will see one exposed. They don't want to sour sales of the 2005 3 series.

Did you see the new 3 series video on Autospies? It showed the new 3 series ripping around some race track in Germany for about 2-3 minutes.

Nope. Hadn't watched it. Thanks for the link.

chrono

I think this is the most recent pic yet, sorry if this is a repost but this looks pretty final ..

http://www.ritualistic.com/badman/e90m3.jpg

I like this one the best, here's hoping this is what we get ..

blueguydotcom

That looks more like the M5. notice the M wheels and m gills?

not too bad, save for the slab sides.

always49

I got this from Autospies. Is that true?

Go to the link: http://www2.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=3013

Or read the following:

Dear 001,

This is a copy of of memo supposedly from BMW headquarters with the official lowdown on the next generation 3-series. I'll let your readers be the judge...

Our sources tell us it will be in US dealers by the end of July 2005.

June 1, 2004

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen:

2005 will be a very significant year for everyone associated with BMW–it will be the year of the new 3 Series. The new model will be
previewed for the public at the Geneva Auto Show in March, and we are planning a National Dealer Meeting, including a driving experience, late April in Miami.

BMW has traditionally conducted a one-day national dealer meeting when there is a time gap between model introduction meetings.

We considered having such a meeting in November or December of this year, but feel it will be more practical in these times of spirited competition and “too many meetings” to use other types of communications to keep you up to date on business developments between now and the 3 Series introduction.

Additional time at home preparing for the holidays is always welcomed.

Yours sincerely,

Tom P.
BMWNA

kyfdx

Yes.. it is true.

blueguydotcom

Yep. A German guy on another forum posted that at the end of May. Yes, weird that a german cat would have a letter for BMW NA.

jack154

Hello -

I have been a big fan of the BMW for many years & have always considered it the absolute best for my driving needs. I have narrowed my search to the 330xi, however I am very concerned over the redesign for a few reasons. First, I don't want to spend 43k (w/ tax & finance charges) to buy the last car of the last model to be redesigned. Personally, I just don't like the image of driving an "old" car for such a huge price - since we've already been around the new 7s for a few years now. The older 3s will look even older than they are because the new designes have been rolling out.

Second, if I choose to resell it, I am concerned the residual value will not be anywhere near BMWs historical high residual since everyone will be in the market for a used redesigned car... not one before the redesign (unless everyone hates the redesign but this is 100 to 1)

My dealer confirmed the new model has I-drive and he said that most people who are used to computers like it - but I've heard people on here complain about it (and you're all using a computer, right...) so what's the deal with the I-drive? I know nothing about it. I certainly don't want to be flipping through computer screens to adjust the heat when I drive. I do that with my iPod now to find music and it's a huge pain and has almost caused accidents.

I guess my options are:
- Lease a 330xi for 3 years and then buy the new design in 2008. Downside - I hate leases & the mile restriction...and I'd be throwing 25k out the window (the cost of a used one basically). Upside - I can write it off my income tax because I own a small business.

- Buy a used model and drive it for a few yrs.

- Get a cheap car for a few years and use it as a spare or sell it later. I.e. An Altima, Jetta, or Passat (liked passat the best)

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Also - what's your experience with "leatherette"? I think it's harder than natural leather and probably less likely to soften over time... what have you all experienced? Thanks again.

Jack

wale_bate1

You know, given your concerns, you may want to consider spending a couple of years in a CPO.

You'd have a lower buy-in, be dealing with knowns, still have your desired performance and comfort level, and would be able to judge all the merits of the next iteration on your own terms and in your own time.

I really doubt that there's a severe long-term downside to depreciation of the last year of a retiring model, unless the model going out is particularly bad in comparison to the new. Short range, within a year or so of intro, it's not unreasonable to anticipate reduced interest in the old model, but looking out further? Hard to imagine.

sunilb

is going to be more reliable than the first year of a new model. Pretty much true across all makes (which is also why conventional wisdom says to never buy during the first year of a new model).

Just something to consider.

dewey

is going to be more reliable than the first year of a new model. Pretty much true across all makes

Many buyers share your opinion. But I would rather drive the newest and most improved model and risk being on the wrong side of the reliabilty statistics.

I always bought first year new models and up to now I have not had any major problems.

y338

I've been waiting for all-new 3 series to be introduced, and it seems that it's still about a year away from official introduction. Does anyone know which dealers are already accepting orders for 2006 model in NY and NJ? I'm also concerned about BMW will still use the current 3.0 engine in its 2006 model as it's a bit underpower compared to Nissan's VQ6, and Honda's 3.2litr 270hp V6 Any feedback?

saugatak

Doesn't BMW rate their HP at the wheels while everyone else rates their HP at the crank? This leads to a lower HP figure for BMW's engines.

According to blueguy, he can dust a TL with his 235HP sports package 3-series.

sunilb

I concur with saugatak... the engines in Honda's and Nissan's are great, but going by quoted hp is a waste of time. BMW manages to get more out of the horses they have without advertising 270+ hp.
I never really understood this until I did some extensive test-driving.

blueguydotcom

Doesn't BMW rate their HP at the wheels while everyone else rates their HP at the crank?

No. Everybody rates it the same way. Some claim BMW underrates their engines like Japanese manus did during the years of the self-imposed 280 hp limit. Others say BMW is more efficient and the engines don't have as much bleedoff from crank to wheels. Gearing plays a major role in an engine's seeming performance - i can hold 3rd to over 90 mph. Finally, you've gotta look at inline 6s v V6s - they produce torque differently.

According to blueguy, he can dust a TL with his 235HP sports package 3-series.

Not according to me. Other mags have posted 5.6 0-60 times for the ZHP. BMW's official time is 5.9.

bmwccc

Blueguy,is the 5.9 0-60 time for the 235 hp 330i?

m4d_cow

if the real one will look pretty much like the post in 222, id definitely consider it, lookin good so far.
i really dont think the price will go any lower than present ones, as they now produce the 1 & 2 series, imo there will be new pricing segments. id say unless they start building 3 series w/ less features, you wont see any 330 at the same base price as 325is.
of course the case is different if they found a new way to cut production costs, like what happened when they introduced the facelifted '02 325i. im not sure about US market but in asian market the base price for an 02 325i was $1000 lower than a new '01 325i.

blueguydotcom

Blueguy,is the 5.9 0-60 time for the 235 hp 330i?

The official time from BMW is 5.9 for a 330i with Perf Pack.

really dont think the price will go any lower than present ones, as they now produce the 1 & 2 series,

Still no such thing as the 2 series (doubtful there will be). And it's still up in the air if any variation of the 1 will come here.

id say unless they start building 3 series w/ less features, you wont see any 330 at the same base price as 325is.

When they jumped to the E36, BMW replaced the old top end 325 with the e36 323 (actually a 2.5 liter engine) and 328. The newer e36 323 2.5 was a better engine in all regards. And it was cheaper than the old 325.

There's no reason they can't mass produce the 3.0 for almost as much as the 2.5. BMW simply doesn't want to currently offer a 3.0 at a reasonable price. With the comp from Acura and Infiniti, they may decide to offer a 3.0 base starting at say 30-31k. It'd be a tad pricery than the 325 but offer more and offer something a tad below par with the competition. Thus it's an easier upsell to a ho 3.0 or 3.5.

of course the case is different if they found a new way to cut production costs,

Build more.

m4d_cow

"When they jumped to the E36, BMW replaced the old top end 325 with the e36 323 (actually a 2.5 liter engine) and 328. The newer e36 323 2.5 was a better engine in all regards. And it was cheaper than the old 325"

same thing with the e46, they have a 2.0 in a 318i, and a newer version of 2.5l w/ lower emission, which pretty much gave a new tax cut

"There's no reason they can't mass produce the 3.0 for almost as much as the 2.5. BMW simply doesn't want to currently offer a 3.0 at a reasonable price. With the comp from Acura and Infiniti, they may decide to offer a 3.0 base starting at say 30-31k."

makes sense, i think they can settle for a lower $31k base price IF they want to produce more. thats a big if though

joeny

With iDrive standard on a few of the 1-series models about to go on sale in the U.K., it seems pretty clear that it will most likely be standard equipment on the E90 rather than the rumored option.

http://www.bmw.co.uk/apm/index/

blueguydotcom

Shrug. iDrive...could be worse, they make navi an automatic feature.

kyfdx

The word on the 1-series is that i-drive is only standard on vehicles with navigation systems. I expect that will be the case with the E90 as well.

regards,
kyfdx

dewey

There seems to be a lot of negative feelings about i-drive, especially among the the current 7/5 series drivers.

This is quite unfortunate since BMW's objective was to make the i-drive a less distracting experience for drivers than pressing old fashioned buttons. The i-drive was to provide less distractions so a BMW owner can enjoy his driving experience moe fully.

Great objective but lousy execution. As everyone knows the opposite is true and the i-drive is quite a distraction.

What should not be forgotten is that most great technologies had bugs and inconveniencess, but greatly improved with time.

The same hope applies to the i-drive. BMW is getting a lot of disgruntled feedback about i-drive and I am sure that future BMW vehicles will have a more improved and simplified i-drive system that may actually enhance the enjoyment of driving

zendude

Here is the link to some photos of the new 3 series
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/61250

kyfdx

Those are photo-shopped 5-series photos.. Unfortunately, no one has come up with a good picture of the new 3-series in the flesh. I've seen interior photos, and they look similar to the new 5-series and the Z-4, with the flat dash across the car, instead of the current cockpit design.

regards,
kyfdx

wale_bate1

Well, that's a relief!

I was about ready to pass right there!

zendude

Auto Motor und Sport is one of the most respectable automobile magazine in Germany...I really think that those photos are very true to the upcoming new 3 series.
Regards,
zendude

planoml

After having seen a few hundred photos, it appears that there is a general consensus; or I am going blind. They all look a bit similar. Now, one could argue the finer points, or wait till we get some "official" shots.

kyfdx

I'm not denigrating the magazine, but those pictures have been all over the web for the last month, and from various sources.. Notice how you can't really read what the model number is on the rear of the car? Not just my opinion....

Also, that might be an '05 model in Europe, but it will be an '06 in North America.

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx

I hope it turns out to look like that.. I wasn't in love with the convertible picture, but I kind of like the others.. Of course, I like the new 5-series also...mostly.. kind of..

regards,
kyfdx

P.S.: Thanks for the pictures, though.. This forum needs more pictures posted. If I weren't a techno-cromagnon, I would post some myself.

307web

People keep posting fake "photos."

They are not real photos of actual cars, just computer-generated/modified/edited renderings.
Maybe the car will look "something" like that since it is a Photoshopped image of a 5 Series and the new 3 series is likely to resemble the 5 series in some way.

m4d_cow

seems like practically all pics out there have similar ideas on how the new 3 will look, its just a matter of details for the rest.
auto magazines throwing in photoshopped pics isnt unusual, so it doesnt matter if ppl keep on posting them, and eventually we'll see if the real one looks similar to them

i kinda like the new design on those pics, but hate the rear and the convertible. i-drive optional is a great relief i agree with dewey's opinion about the i-drive, seems like bmw had the idea but not the solution.

wco81

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/columnists/bu- siness_update/8948216.htm

(registration required)

As someone speculated about the new 3 series having some kind of iPod integration, looks like BMW is heading that way. However, the BMW official didn't say this would be specifically for the new 3-series model, just that it would be for all BMWs and Minis (Cooper that is, not iPod).

307web

There is a company that already provides some iPod integration on some existing BMWs including the current E46 3-series. It is a module that plugs into the CD changer input in the trunk.

blueguydotcom

No trunk mounting. plugs into a cradle that comes from the dash. recharges the ipod and allows steering wheel controls to utilize the ipod (and mini).