I think it's kind of odd that there are no 05's out yet. I was at the Acura dealer here in Indy on Friday and the nitwit sales guy I talked to was clueless.
I know they've just rolled out the RL, and maybe want some space in between launches, but my lease is up in January and I need to start wheeling and dealing now!!!
I've heard a few different times from a couple different dealers.
One said not until mid December (!!!)
Another said they'd be receiving 05's by mid Nov. So I don't know for sure. I wonder if it depends on the dealer? I would think they would be getting them around the same time. A month's difference seems like alot. Plus to have 05's hitting the lots by mid Dec. just seems crazy late to me!!
Actually both dealers were right, at least according to a dealer I talked to on Sunday. The manual 05's will be out mid November and the auto 05's will be out in mid December. Keep in mind I was only inquiring about cars w/ nav (i'm not sure if that matters) and this was in So. Cal. By the way, I also asked about pricing and he said that it wasn't finalized yet, but expect an increase of ~$200.
December???? Ugggg!!!! That is sooooo long to wait. Yeah, the Walnut Creek, CA dealer told me yesterday that there will be a price increase but he "hasn't even seen the invoice for 05's yet" so couldn't give me a range. The 05 updates are nothing special. I don't even want the XM. I'd rather have Sirrius. $200 is do-able. If it goes any higher than $300, I'll get a stupid Accord.
I e-mailed all of the local dealers. They said there was no truth to the Mid-Nov manuals, and Mid-Dec automatics. One has automatics coming in next month. We'll see.
Also, one said that the price difference would be an additional $250.
We've been looking for a CGP 6-speed on ebony w/o navi. Basically we called around to 5 dealers to see if they could find us one. One called back on Mon. and said they found one in the whole state but they still didn't know if it was a demo yet or not but we could come in and work out the price. Anyways after much hageling we were getting close to the price we want $25K (they're at $25,700) but we left they said that they'd be willing to split the difference w/ us, so it would be $25,350. So we left it there for now and they said they'd called today to make sure it wasn't a demo etc. and work out the price a little more. He said the car was in Sanford FL.
Here's the kicker!! I checked online at Courtesy Acura in Sanford which is the only one that comes up in that city on Acura's website. I checked their inventory and the car is new but it's AUTOMATIC. So I don't know if this guy is just pulling us in and planning to tell us later "oops it's auto. instead of manual but you should buy it." I know there's a good possibility that he uses a different system than just the regular net but do you all think that maybe he's trying to reel us in so that we buy the car even though it's not the one we want?
What's a good dealer in the bay area? Is it possible to get one with Navigation for around $26,500 or is $27,000 the lowest I might be able to get one for? Are the rear seats pretty comfortable for 3 adults?
I'm considering 2005 Toyota Solara SLE V6 with some option mainly installed. I got a offer $25,933 from a dealer. Solara's option is below.
(base model MSRP : $26,095 Invoice : 22,702) - Curtain side Airbags $344 - Rear Spoiler $160 - Vehicle Stability control $559 - Glass breakage sensor $109 - Carpet/Cargo mat set $112 So total invoice(including desti charge and TDA $545, Dealer Holdback $521, WHSL financial Reserve $260 and gas)is $25,833. But is it necessary for me to pay for TDA, Dealer Holdback etc? Above offer is very good? I really want to know.
I'm in Seatle, WA. In my area, Acura TSX 2004 new is rarely at dealer inventory, especiallly auto-trans is sold out maybe.
Whicc is better, waiting 2005 TSX otherwise, buying Solara? (What about buying a Altima 3.5 SL 2005?)
I'm also thinking about getting a Solara SLE V6 but with navi or a TSX with Navi. The solara has a 225hp V6 with 240 ft/lb of torque. I can take up to $3,000 off MSRP on a Toyota, but reading all the posts on this forum, it seems like the lowest I can get a TSX for is $1,500 or so off MSRP. I really like the voice activated navi on the TSX. I'm having a hard time trying to decide which car to get.
Much different kinds of vehicles. The Solara has got a much nicer engine, its a lot bigger, and it has a softer ride. But, it doens't handle very well and really isn't a very sporty vehicle.
If you want a tight handling car and don't mind a stiff ride, the TSX may be a good option.
If you place a higer value on ride comfort and HP, the Solara might be a good deal.
An option that is somewhere in the middle might be an Accord Coupe.
i put a deposit down on an '04 tsx, non-navi, automatic at acura 101 west in calabasas. i negotiated a price of $25,500 + ttl. i had waited over a month for the car to come in, only to discover today that they had sold my car to somebody else without notifying me, or refunding my deposit. they claim that my mother had cancelled my desposit (which is untrue). i'm in total disbelief as to their unethical behavior. they're issuing a check to me *today*, but now i'm forced to buy an '05 without any type of discount. i was not very happy with my buying experience, to say the very least.
I just bought a new 2004 TSX, non-navi. Tried to deal with the local Acura dealer, but there is only one in town and they had very little interest in bargaining, citing limited production and availability of the 2004. Thanks to this forum, I knew I wasn't getting much of an offer and got on the Acura website, which gives names of dealers in a pretty wide area from your city. I called or emailed every dealer within a 5 hour drive of my home. Some did not answer emails I sent through their own websites; maybe because they didn't have much inventory. Still, I found a number of vehicles still out there.
I ended up locating what I wanted at Marion Acura in Marion Ohio. The sales manager gave me a quote over the phone ($24,916), quite a bit better than any other offers, offered me a fair price for my trade in, and took care of all the details without even asking for a deposit. He even offered to make hotel arrangements since I was traveling overnight. It was a real pleasure to deal with them and I highly recommend.
Honorable mention for being responsive and apparently competitive in pricing goes to Hubler Acura in Greenwood, Indiana, which quoted me $25,500 before I even tried to haggle, but didn't have the color I wanted, and Lindsay Acura in Columbus, Oh., which quoted me $26,000, including a 7 year 100,000 mile powertrain warranty from a third party vendor (the value of which I never quite ascertained).
I love my sporty little sedan; it's quite a change after 15 years of minivan driving but my kids like it anyway! The only down side so far is that, without bucket seats in the back, the kids can actually touch each other in the back seat and fight over the fold-down arm rest. Flashbacks to my own childhood.
amazingrace - If I were you, I'd get in touch with Acura USA (in Torrance, California). There consumer support staff can sometimes be helpful in situations like this. I think you deserve the price you had negotiated. It was the dealer's error not yours.
For what it is worth, the 2005 will have some nice upgrades (heated mirrors, lighted controls on the steering wheel, power passenger seat, and XM radio).
I finally ended my 6 month journey to find a new car. I had been researching the TSX, 3-Series, S40, IS300 and A4. Of the contenders here I eliminated the 3-series because it is over priced and the IS300 because I do not like the styling. So that left me with 3 cars to choose from: the TSX, S40 & A4. I drove all three cars twice over a two day period and these are my comments:
1) The S40 is a VERY fun car to drive in the 5T trim and loaded I could have got it out the door for under $30k. However, the interior noise from wind and the engine was noticeably higher than both the TSX and A4. The S40 had the most power making it the most fun to drive, but I didn't like the grabby clutch. Also, the interior was understated to a fault, even though everything was high quality. S40 eliminated...
2) The A4 is an outstanding auto. The interior has the high quality feel of the new Porsche my dad just purchased. Real metal, leather and high quality plastic that doesn't have the feel or look of plastic. The 1.8t without quattro w/ a manual was very fun to drive, but not as fun as the S40. However, the A4 had the feel of quality and a very nice ride with the sports package. Also, the BOSE audio system sounded amazing. I was so impressed with the A4 I almost didn't go to Acura, but I did.
3) The TSX is a car priced to sell. Standard everything for $4k less than the A4 and S40 I was looking at. So automatically I was questioning how they can give you all this stuff for so little money. I figured it out. The demo I drove only had 2,500 miles on it and the steering column was falling apart. Literally the leather, or fake leather, around the airbag was pealing off. Also, the engine is brain dead until 4500rpm. Finally, the inside of the car just looked fake and cheap after just driving the A4 and not quite on par with the S40. I found that after driving the TSX the second time I was upset that it was winning all of these comparos in the car magazines. I was questioning all of the opinions about this car. It's not that fast, it's not that nice and it isn't much better than the American Accord. TSX Eliminated
I decided on the A4 because of the decided edge it has on interior quality and the styling is by far the nicest. If I'm going to pay over $400 a month to buy a car I want to feel like I'm being spoiled when I drive. The A4 does that for me every time. It's also very fun to drive with the manual transmission.
thanks for the advice uncledavid. i have sent a letter to the torrance office expressing my disappointment. the upgrades on the '05 are appealing, though. this misfortune may turn out to be a good thing. in any case, i am definitely purchasing my '05 somewhere other than at acura 101 west!!!
Audifreak, I agree that the A4 is a wonderful car. We actually own a TSX and A4 so I get to compare both all the time.
Your suggestion that the TSX is not well made is pretty far off. First, I'm not sure what "fake leather" around the airbag you are talking about since there is no leather (or simulated leather) anywhere near the airbag on the steering wheel. The leather around the airbags on the door is nice perforated REAL leather. I don't think the leather in the TSX is as nice as the leather in the Audi, but that is another issue.
I have 20,000 miles on my TSX and I certainly do not have a "steering column that is falling apart." And, you are dreaming if you think the A4 will be anywhere near as reliable as the Acura over the longterm. That is my one big concern regarding the A4.
The TSX engine may or may not be "brain dead until 4500 rpm" as you suggest, but nearly every source that has tested the two cars head-to-head finds the TSX to be a good deal quicker. And, nearly every source finds that the TSX handles a lot better. We're talking Consumer Reports, Motor Trend, Automobile, Car and Driver, etc. EVERY SOURCE.
In terms of smoothness of transmission, that is not even close. The TSX wins by a huge landslide.
Having driven both fairly extensively, I would say the TSX is much more of a driver's car than the base A4 (quattro might be a different story). The Audi seems a bit more classy to me overall, but that is just a gut kind fo reaction.
Now, as far as the styling is concerned, I find the A4 interior to be somewhat classier, but a little less comfortable. I like the exterior styling of the A4 slightly more, but I like the TSX as well.
Anyway, this is not a comparison thread. But, you're being way unfair here. Both vehicles are nice and good options.
amazinggrace, I live in Los Angeles as well. I bought mine at the Van Nuys Acura. I have neither positive or negative things to say about them, but they at least had a good supply of vehicles in stock.
I am a current 2001 A4 owner and wanted to chime in real quick.
First off, you are quite correct about the interior of the Audi being quite nice and classy. However, after > 3 years with my Audi, it has been horribly unreliable. There are numerous interior rattles and shakes. I've had it in for major repairs about 5 times. It's even been towed in after the vacuum pump died and I lost all power. Now, I'm suffering from major "flat-spotting" in the power band. I have almost 45k miles and it's time to put this Audi to sleep.
Hence, I went for a test drive a couple weeks ago in a TSX. My impression is that the interior is every bit as nice as the Audi. Handling matches or even exceeds the A4. Power? Beats the Audi...but I have a 5-speed auto on my A4...and I was driving the 6-speed TSX. The TSX revs much more freely and doesn't have that obnoxious turbo lag. The TSX engine is much smoother than the A4 and almost silent even at 3k rpm.
And finally, price. The TSX is a bargain. I know you can get them for about $24.9k around the DC area. (non-nav). And I'll also tell you that the dealership experience with Audi is miserable. You get 4 years/50k of free maintenence, but as they say, there's no such thing as a "free lunch". I'd be willing to pay at this point just for a competent dealer.
Well to be completely fair the sale isn't actually final until Sunday when we pick it up. But we put a deposit down so it's held for us!!
We finally found a six speed tsx w/o navi. It's black on black, not our 1st color choice but it was either that or wait for the 05's and pay a lot more for it! I love the color combo I was just a little afraid to own black b/c of how hard it is to keep up. But it's the ONLY one we could find in the state of FL that was a 6-spd. We have to drive 3 1/2 hours to pick it up but it's well worth it!
We're paying only $25,595 including a spoiler and a trunk tray. It's $27,900 OTD. Even better....the deal was made over the phone! No uncomfortable haggeling. I think it's an unbelievably great deal! We tried calling a couple dealers around us to see if they would at least match that price so that way they could just order it and truck it over to us. But no one would touch it for that price! I can't wait till Sunday. Two days can't go by fast enough!!
Just to reaffirm your observations...I had a 1998 A4 2.8 Quattro. Repairs were frequent. The last problem almost got me killed and I got rid of it a few days later(in 2000). Would never own an Audi again. I have a 2004 TSX for 8 months and really like it alot. No mechanical problems, and enjoyable car to drive. I'm amazed at how much car for the money.
I know this may not be the place for a long discussion, but I am currently trading in my '04 solara SLE for a TSX because the handling is so bad and the car drifts to the left and pulls whenever the road is graded to that side. It is hard taking such a bath on a relatively new car and the Solara options are great, but the ride borders on unsafe and you can view similar stories at that forum. The TSX handling is very nice and the 4 vs 6 cyl is slightly noticable, but not exactly your father's 4 cyl automobile in terms of pick up and power. Hope that helps...
My first car was a black Honda Civic. EVERYONE advised me against a black car because of the upkeep. But, I was a stubborn 17 year old that HAD to have her way.
My sister has the car now. She also has all of the 15 bazillion dents, scratches, nicks, smears, and swipes that are sooooo evident on a black car. It seems every and anything that could possibly mar a car's exterior, finds it's way to the black cars.
Get some good walking shoes because you are going to find that you have to park really really far from the other cars to keep from a door hitting it, someone swiping their car along the side of it (leaving you no note, of course, but a nice smear of their white paint), the stray grocery cart leaving you a nice $300 dent, etc. After about 9 months the car is so beat-up, that you give up on trying to keep it nice looking anymore.
Even when I had the car, I garaged it every night and dusted it every couple of days. That thing was IMPOSSIBLE to keep clean. I don't live in a dusty area, but, you'd never know it from that car.
So glad "Blackie" (yes, that's her name) was my first car, because I will NEVER buy a black car EVER again. They're beautiful for the first few hours. But, eventually you have to park it somewhere.
Good luck on the black. Buy a "California Car Duster" (Target has them). That was about the only useful, quick thing that made the burden of keeping the black car clean, a little easier.
"The TSX handling is very nice and the 4 vs 6 cyl is slightly noticable, but not exactly your father's 4 cyl automobile in terms of pick up and power."
Are you serious? Even thought the Solara has 225 hp and 240 ft-lbs of torque compared to the TSX's 200 hp and 164ft-lbs of torque?
Anyway, I decided on the TSX because I've been reading a lot of negative posts on the Solara forum. I also like the TSX's navi system. I'm also kind of thinking about the Accord too, the EX with navigation is almost the same price as the TSX with navigation, but with a V6.
Does anyone have any idea when we expect the '05 TSX's to come out? I understood it was by 10/26 but I have not seen any 05's at any Acura dealerships- at least not in my area (Miami, FL). Thanks!
The '05's will be on dealer lots in about two weeks. The price increase is modest (like $500) but it has all sorts of new goodies (XM, heated mirrors, power passenger seat, lighted steering wheel controls).
Don't know what numbers from Edmunds you want. But, the MSRP for the Acura TSX in 2005 will be $26,990. It is something like $540 for destination charges. That is for 5-Speed AT or 6-speed MT models (automatic does not cost extra). The price for the model with Nav will be $28,990.
Again, upgrades on the 2005 are significant, including XM radio, heated mirrors, lights for the steering wheel controls, and power passenger seat.
as a follow-up to my previous posting: acura 101 west has promised to sell me the next '05 silver/ebony, non-navi, automatic TSX at the price originally agreed upon ($25,500), in consideration for their mistake in selling the '04 i had a deposit on. this makes me very happy!
Sounds like they're making up for their error in a great way! I'm glad to hear you got a positive resolution to the situation. Enjoy your TSX!
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Amazingrace - I'm glad that things worked out well for you, and hope your new vehicle arrives soon. You'll love the TSX. 20,000 miles later, and I'm still in love with the handling, looks, comfort, and overall sense of quality.
Since the '05 prices are not out yet (that I know of), does anyone think $1,000 over invoice for a non-nav is acceptable? My local dealership had the '05 I wanted on order already so I put $500 down but we did not negotiate price at that time since they claimed they had not seen the invoice yet. After the fact they offered $1K over invoice. I did not want to wait till January if they sold that particular car (carbon grey, auto) after it came in, so I agreed. Does anyone have any thoughts as to a fair price for an '05?
A local dealer had agreed to $400 over invoice on a with nav 04, a couple months ago (I didn't buy, due to money issues, of course).
That having been said, I would not pay anymore than $500 over invoice for an 05. The dealer is going to give you some little story about it being a "hard car to get", "popular", etc. Tell him what you're willing to pay and don't let him take you any higher.
Even if they sell the car at invoice, they're making something like $800 with their "hold back". Do all initial contact through the Acura website also. Internet managers are able to go lower than anyone else at the dealership.
From another message board, I've seen a post about the first purchase with a actual price. I believe the purchase was around the philly area.
'05 TSX, 6sp, non-navi
$27,500 out the door
As for $500 over invoice, I think you will have to wait a few months before the '05s fall to that price. But I agree that I wouldn't pay anymore than that.
I just got an e-mail from Rosenthal Acura in Gaithersburg, MD (part of the DC metro area). They said the 2005 TSX's would be in either late this week or early next week.
They gave me a written quote of $26,960 (that includes the destination charge), plus tax, tags, and a $95 processing fee. I figured I would take that price around to other dealers to get the best price, since I don't think anyone will negotiate that much when the cars first come out.
That should be a pretty good quote to take around to other dealers, if you're looking to buy in the very near future. I recieved a quote yesterday from Downey Acura in the LA area for $27,560(includes destination, add $2k for nav), which is exactly MSRP. Another dealer South Bay Acura) told me that they wouldn't budge from MSRP for a little while as well. I had a quote for an 04' 6spd, w/nav a month ago for $27,300 (and $25,500 non-nav), so I'm definitely going to wait a couple months for the dealers to come down a little. If you're wondering why I didn't buy the 04, it is because when I went to the dealer, they magically only had auto, non-nav left.
Does anyone know what the invoice price is for the 05 tsx? Comparing w/ invoice would maybe give you a more objective comparison for your qoute.
themurph - I think the invoice prices should be about $500 higher than 2004, judging by the change in MSRP.
I personally think you did the right thing waiting for the 2005. Some of the new features are nice: heated mirrors (OK, you won't need those in Southern Cal), lighted controls on the steering wheel, XM, and power passenger seat. In a few months, when prices on the 2005 come down, you'll be glad you waited.
My search for TSX is over - I bought accord ex v6! It may sound as a blasphemy in this forum, but I thought I'd tell my story for everyone's benefit. I had been pretty serious about buying TSX for last few months and had done a lot of research and test driving. Then, couple of weeks ago my wife's 2002 accord got hit. Last week we were told that it a total loss, so we had to find a new car in a hurry. Buying TSX now didn't seem like a good idea b/c of current inventory/price situation and I thought we'd go again for an accord for my wife. So, last weekend we got graphite ex v6 for $550 under invoice + TTL. That wasn't surprising part - what surprised me was the quality of the new accord. It is a definite step up from the previous model. The 240hp engine is quite and confident, the interior is well designed aesthetically and well implemented with high quality parts. Actually, I noticed a lot of similarities in the "look and feel" with TSX ! You know how TSX is called a "european accord" ? Well, I think accord can be called "american TSX". When comparing these 2 cars based on my 3 days driving experience with accord, I agree that TSX beats accord in handling. Arguably, TSX has better looks too. However, accord beats TSX in the power and torque and it puts a lot of fun in the driving experience too! Accord's low-rev quite engine projects the feeling of power and confidence, where as TSX tends to rev up a bit too much/high, characteristically for 4-cyl engine. Size-wise accord is more of the mid-size vehicle, whereas TSX is closer to a compact. Otherwise, accord has all the options 05 TSX does, except heated mirrors. Finally, let me say that I think both cars are excellent. However, there may be other people like me out there who are considering TSX, but have doubts about TSX's size and power and are turned off by the unwillingness of the dealers to give reasonable discounts. For you guys and gals - check out ex v6 before making the final decision.
dschek, I don't think you are going to fine many TSX drivers who don't have a lot of respect for the Accord. Most of us (including me!) have had several Accords, and liked them enough to want another Honda product. So, I certainly can't fault you for going for the Accord, and hope you really enjoy your purchase. I choose the TSX over the Accord, but even I would concede that the Accord offers more value.
FYI: The TSX does have a number of options that are not included on the Accord, the most significant of which is the VSA. The TSX also comes with a nicer stereo, perforated leather, HID lights, autodim mirror, longer warranty, heated mirrors (as you acknowledge).
I live in the Washington DC metro area. I just made a deal with Chevy Chase Acura in Bethesda, Maryland for a 2005 TSX, automatic transmission, no navigation. The price we negotiated was $26,571 which includes the destination charge. Registration, tax, and processing is extra. They are also giving me any options at dealer cost. I'm getting nighthawk black pearl, with parchment interior, and according to their records, it is being shipped and should arrive in a few weeks.
Considering the True Market Value (the average price people in my area paid)on a 2004 TSX was $26,097, and that the MSRP went up $500 from 2004 to 2005, I think I did pretty well, considering the cars are just delivering now.
Comments
I know they've just rolled out the RL, and maybe want some space in between launches, but my lease is up in January and I need to start wheeling and dealing now!!!
One said not until mid December (!!!)
Another said they'd be receiving 05's by mid Nov.
So I don't know for sure. I wonder if it depends on the dealer? I would think they would be getting them around the same time. A month's difference seems like alot. Plus to have 05's hitting the lots by mid Dec. just seems crazy late to me!!
Also, one said that the price difference would be an additional $250.
Here's the kicker!! I checked online at Courtesy Acura in Sanford which is the only one that comes up in that city on Acura's website. I checked their inventory and the car is new but it's AUTOMATIC. So I don't know if this guy is just pulling us in and planning to tell us later "oops it's auto. instead of manual but you should buy it." I know there's a good possibility that he uses a different system than just the regular net but do you all think that maybe he's trying to reel us in so that we buy the car even though it's not the one we want?
Whatever you do, don't call that other dealer asking about the car... If you do, they might put a hold on it for a few days, and not trade.
regards,
kyfdx
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(base model MSRP : $26,095 Invoice : 22,702)
- Curtain side Airbags $344
- Rear Spoiler $160
- Vehicle Stability control $559
- Glass breakage sensor $109
- Carpet/Cargo mat set $112
So total invoice(including desti charge and TDA $545, Dealer Holdback $521, WHSL financial Reserve $260 and gas)is $25,833. But is it necessary for me to pay for TDA, Dealer Holdback etc? Above offer is very good? I really want to know.
I'm in Seatle, WA. In my area, Acura TSX 2004 new is rarely at dealer inventory, especiallly auto-trans is sold out maybe.
Whicc is better, waiting 2005 TSX otherwise, buying Solara? (What about buying a Altima 3.5 SL 2005?)
Friends, Would you help me?
If you want a tight handling car and don't mind a stiff ride, the TSX may be a good option.
If you place a higer value on ride comfort and HP, the Solara might be a good deal.
An option that is somewhere in the middle might be an Accord Coupe.
I ended up locating what I wanted at Marion Acura in Marion Ohio. The sales manager gave me a quote over the phone ($24,916), quite a bit better than any other offers, offered me a fair price for my trade in, and took care of all the details without even asking for a deposit. He even offered to make hotel arrangements since I was traveling overnight. It was a real pleasure to deal with them and I highly recommend.
Honorable mention for being responsive and apparently competitive in pricing goes to Hubler Acura in Greenwood, Indiana, which quoted me $25,500 before I even tried to haggle, but didn't have the color I wanted, and Lindsay Acura in Columbus, Oh., which quoted me $26,000, including a 7 year 100,000 mile powertrain warranty from a third party vendor (the value of which I never quite ascertained).
I love my sporty little sedan; it's quite a change after 15 years of minivan driving but my kids like it anyway! The only down side so far is that, without bucket seats in the back, the kids can actually touch each other in the back seat and fight over the fold-down arm rest. Flashbacks to my own childhood.
For what it is worth, the 2005 will have some nice upgrades (heated mirrors, lighted controls on the steering wheel, power passenger seat, and XM radio).
1) The S40 is a VERY fun car to drive in the 5T trim and loaded I could have got it out the door for under $30k. However, the interior noise from wind and the engine was noticeably higher than both the TSX and A4. The S40 had the most power making it the most fun to drive, but I didn't like the grabby clutch. Also, the interior was understated to a fault, even though everything was high quality. S40 eliminated...
2) The A4 is an outstanding auto. The interior has the high quality feel of the new Porsche my dad just purchased. Real metal, leather and high quality plastic that doesn't have the feel or look of plastic. The 1.8t without quattro w/ a manual was very fun to drive, but not as fun as the S40. However, the A4 had the feel of quality and a very nice ride with the sports package. Also, the BOSE audio system sounded amazing. I was so impressed with the A4 I almost didn't go to Acura, but I did.
3) The TSX is a car priced to sell. Standard everything for $4k less than the A4 and S40 I was looking at. So automatically I was questioning how they can give you all this stuff for so little money. I figured it out. The demo I drove only had 2,500 miles on it and the steering column was falling apart. Literally the leather, or fake leather, around the airbag was pealing off. Also, the engine is brain dead until 4500rpm. Finally, the inside of the car just looked fake and cheap after just driving the A4 and not quite on par with the S40. I found that after driving the TSX the second time I was upset that it was winning all of these comparos in the car magazines. I was questioning all of the opinions about this car. It's not that fast, it's not that nice and it isn't much better than the American Accord. TSX Eliminated
I decided on the A4 because of the decided edge it has on interior quality and the styling is by far the nicest. If I'm going to pay over $400 a month to buy a car I want to feel like I'm being spoiled when I drive. The A4 does that for me every time. It's also very fun to drive with the manual transmission.
Your suggestion that the TSX is not well made is pretty far off. First, I'm not sure what "fake leather" around the airbag you are talking about since there is no leather (or simulated leather) anywhere near the airbag on the steering wheel. The leather around the airbags on the door is nice perforated REAL leather. I don't think the leather in the TSX is as nice as the leather in the Audi, but that is another issue.
I have 20,000 miles on my TSX and I certainly do not have a "steering column that is falling apart." And, you are dreaming if you think the A4 will be anywhere near as reliable as the Acura over the longterm. That is my one big concern regarding the A4.
The TSX engine may or may not be "brain dead until 4500 rpm" as you suggest, but nearly every source that has tested the two cars head-to-head finds the TSX to be a good deal quicker. And, nearly every source finds that the TSX handles a lot better. We're talking Consumer Reports, Motor Trend, Automobile, Car and Driver, etc. EVERY SOURCE.
In terms of smoothness of transmission, that is not even close. The TSX wins by a huge landslide.
Having driven both fairly extensively, I would say the TSX is much more of a driver's car than the base A4 (quattro might be a different story). The Audi seems a bit more classy to me overall, but that is just a gut kind fo reaction.
Now, as far as the styling is concerned, I find the A4 interior to be somewhat classier, but a little less comfortable. I like the exterior styling of the A4 slightly more, but I like the TSX as well.
Anyway, this is not a comparison thread. But, you're being way unfair here. Both vehicles are nice and good options.
Good luck with that situation.
I am a current 2001 A4 owner and wanted to chime in real quick.
First off, you are quite correct about the interior of the Audi being quite nice and classy. However, after > 3 years with my Audi, it has been horribly unreliable. There are numerous interior rattles and shakes. I've had it in for major repairs about 5 times. It's even been towed in after the vacuum pump died and I lost all power. Now, I'm suffering from major "flat-spotting" in the power band. I have almost 45k miles and it's time to put this Audi to sleep.
Hence, I went for a test drive a couple weeks ago in a TSX. My impression is that the interior is every bit as nice as the Audi. Handling matches or even exceeds the A4. Power? Beats the Audi...but I have a 5-speed auto on my A4...and I was driving the 6-speed TSX. The TSX revs much more freely and doesn't have that obnoxious turbo lag. The TSX engine is much smoother than the A4 and almost silent even at 3k rpm.
And finally, price. The TSX is a bargain. I know you can get them for about $24.9k around the DC area. (non-nav). And I'll also tell you that the dealership experience with Audi is miserable. You get 4 years/50k of free maintenence, but as they say, there's no such thing as a "free lunch". I'd be willing to pay at this point just for a competent dealer.
That's just my opinion.
We finally found a six speed tsx w/o navi. It's black on black, not our 1st color choice but it was either that or wait for the 05's and pay a lot more for it! I love the color combo I was just a little afraid to own black b/c of how hard it is to keep up. But it's the ONLY one we could find in the state of FL that was a 6-spd. We have to drive 3 1/2 hours to pick it up but it's well worth it!
We're paying only $25,595 including a spoiler and a trunk tray. It's $27,900 OTD. Even better....the deal was made over the phone! No uncomfortable haggeling. I think it's an unbelievably great deal! We tried calling a couple dealers around us to see if they would at least match that price so that way they could just order it and truck it over to us. But no one would touch it for that price! I can't wait till Sunday. Two days can't go by fast enough!!
But Black/Black in Florida?
All I could imagine is that blk/blk baking in a parking lot all day!!
Good luck.
I know this may not be the place for a long discussion, but I am currently trading in my '04 solara SLE for a TSX because the handling is so bad and the car drifts to the left and pulls whenever the road is graded to that side. It is hard taking such a bath on a relatively new car and the Solara options are great, but the ride borders on unsafe and you can view similar stories at that forum. The TSX handling is very nice and the 4 vs 6 cyl is slightly noticable, but not exactly your father's 4 cyl automobile in terms of pick up and power. Hope that helps...
jim
My sister has the car now. She also has all of the 15 bazillion dents, scratches, nicks, smears, and swipes that are sooooo evident on a black car. It seems every and anything that could possibly mar a car's exterior, finds it's way to the black cars.
Get some good walking shoes because you are going to find that you have to park really really far from the other cars to keep from a door hitting it, someone swiping their car along the side of it (leaving you no note, of course, but a nice smear of their white paint), the stray grocery cart leaving you a nice $300 dent, etc. After about 9 months the car is so beat-up, that you give up on trying to keep it nice looking anymore.
Even when I had the car, I garaged it every night and dusted it every couple of days. That thing was IMPOSSIBLE to keep clean. I don't live in a dusty area, but, you'd never know it from that car.
So glad "Blackie" (yes, that's her name) was my first car, because I will NEVER buy a black car EVER again. They're beautiful for the first few hours. But, eventually you have to park it somewhere.
Good luck on the black.
Are you serious? Even thought the Solara has 225 hp and 240 ft-lbs of torque compared to the TSX's 200 hp and 164ft-lbs of torque?
Anyway, I decided on the TSX because I've been reading a lot of negative posts on the Solara forum. I also like the TSX's navi system. I'm also kind of thinking about the Accord too, the EX with navigation is almost the same price as the TSX with navigation, but with a V6.
Again, upgrades on the 2005 are significant, including XM radio, heated mirrors, lights for the steering wheel controls, and power passenger seat.
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That having been said, I would not pay anymore than $500 over invoice for an 05. The dealer is going to give you some little story about it being a "hard car to get", "popular", etc. Tell him what you're willing to pay and don't let him take you any higher.
Even if they sell the car at invoice, they're making something like $800 with their "hold back". Do all initial contact through the Acura website also. Internet managers are able to go lower than anyone else at the dealership.
'05 TSX, 6sp, non-navi
$27,500 out the door
As for $500 over invoice, I think you will have to wait a few months before the '05s fall to that price. But I agree that I wouldn't pay anymore than that.
So, i will be able to buy next week, but probably won't get the price where I want it! I guess I'll have to just wait.
They gave me a written quote of $26,960 (that includes the destination charge), plus tax, tags, and a $95 processing fee. I figured I would take that price around to other dealers to get the best price, since I don't think anyone will negotiate that much when the cars first come out.
What do you think of that quote?
Does anyone know what the invoice price is for the 05 tsx? Comparing w/ invoice would maybe give you a more objective comparison for your qoute.
I personally think you did the right thing waiting for the 2005. Some of the new features are nice: heated mirrors (OK, you won't need those in Southern Cal), lighted controls on the steering wheel, XM, and power passenger seat. In a few months, when prices on the 2005 come down, you'll be glad you waited.
FYI: The TSX does have a number of options that are not included on the Accord, the most significant of which is the VSA. The TSX also comes with a nicer stereo, perforated leather, HID lights, autodim mirror, longer warranty, heated mirrors (as you acknowledge).
Considering the True Market Value (the average price people in my area paid)on a 2004 TSX was $26,097, and that the MSRP went up $500 from 2004 to 2005, I think I did pretty well, considering the cars are just delivering now.
Can you tell me the OTD price you paid for you '05 Accord and also the name of the dealership. Thanks