Lexus GS 300/GS 430

merc1

Mercedes is also using stereos from that same family. Both BMW and Mercedes are using Harmon-Kardon systems...the same folks that make the ML systems for Lexus. I'm sure Lexus pays a premium so a ML system won't end up in a MB or BMW.

Yeah I guess the XK is down to styling now huh. It has been a timeless design since 1997, but is a no-compete with the SL or 911.

M

merc1

They finally updated the Jaguar site with the 2005 XK pics, man this thing is gorgeous.





It may be outdated underneath, but it smokes this:



in this looks department. The Jag looks like an Aston-Martin where the SC looks way too much the new Camry Solara.

M

boomsama

I think that you think the Jag looks like an Aston-Martin because of the DB7, which was basically an XK with minor changes. Well, that's how I relate the two anyway.

lexusguy

merc, it looks basically exactly the same as the old car, with the single addition of the air intake under the grill. They had 8 years, and thats all they did. The interior is exactly the same, and of coruse, J-gate is STILL there.

Boomsama, the difference is the Jag still works the day after you've driven it off the dealer's lot. Aston reliability since the PAG take over has been HORRID. If you've seen the recent C&D article, their test car stopped working, while they were still testing it.

wale_bate1

I think it's still a knockout. Lot of XKSS/D shining through with all the E! I think any subtantial updating (stylewise that is) would trash its inherent value. Better to bring the F to market finally and let the XK start a long decline! ;-)

Amazing to think it's all still riding on basically the XJS platform! Talk about long in the tooth...

lexusguy

"Talk about long in the tooth... "

Yeah Ford has some problems with that. Just ask the Fox platform under the Mustang, or worse yet, the ancient Crown Vic platform. New platforms arent a Ford strong suit.

wale_bate1

Well, sometimes, if a platform is versatile enough, significant updating just isn't all that necessary. Mustang is a case in point I think. Pretty much buried the competition (such as it was) without really breathing hard.

Facing facts, one would have to admit Ford is better at it than GM I think.

Besides, Toyota has been masterful with moderate updating and substantial diversifying of the Camry platform...
;-)

lexusguy

What competition? The only car like the Mustang was the ancient F-body twins, and those are gone. The only reason Ford can sell the car with a DOHC V8 at its price is because the platform is so old.

maxhonda99

"What competition?" The GM F-Body cars, the Camaro & Firebird.

The mustang buried that competition.

merc1

Well for me it has nothing to do with the fact the the DB7 was based on the old XJS. Its that grill opening combined with that mesh treatment that says Aston-Martin or Bentley. All the British makes have similar grille treatments, along with Maserati. I think it is a very classy touch.

Lexusguy,

I agree the car is ancient, but the real change will come for 2006. Really none of these cars undergo much change over a single model's production run. Look at the previous SL, Lexus' SC...timeless careful evolution is the theme here I think

M

boomsama

More bad news for those who think the new 3.0L I6 in the GS300 is not enough. BMW has released their next generation 3.0 I6 Engine appear in the E90 next year. It produces 190kw (258 bhp) and is 10kg lighterthan the current one.

maxhonda99

The new BMW straight 6 has been known for some time. It's not really new news. That's why I think Lexus will have a bigger engine then they are currently saying when the 05/06 GS comes out.

boomsama

Ah ok, my bad. Well yeah, it would seem quite illogical to come up with an all new brand spanking engine which has an amount of power lower than all other competition.

wale_bate1

Wouldn't it have been nice to see a new aluminum I6 from Toyota, instead of bowing to V packaging?

Of all the excellent traits I love in my car, the I6 experience ranks pretty darn high. Departure to a V, plus expanding the size and eliminating the wagon, are key reasons for my jumping ship... :-(

lexusguy

The Toyota inline disappears with the end of the GS\IS model run. Toyota has a new 3.0L 242hp V6 coming, and also a new 3.5L V6 with somewhere around 300hp.

Wale_bate, I new IL would be really unlikely. Toyota likes to share its engines as much as possible, and going to Vs allows ALL of its V6 cars to use the same engines. Costs down, profits up. I'm sure they are aware they are going to lose some die hard customers in the transition from Altezza to a purpose built Lexus, but they plan to add about 10,000 new ones to take your place.

wale_bate1

Oh, I don't doubt it. I certainly understand the economies of scale, too.

Doesn't mean I have to like it! When I opted for the (IMO perfectly sized) SportCross, rather than going for the whole 540iT enchilada, I had hoped I'd found home; intending to happily trade for the next iteration every three years.

So I'm just a bit disappointed is all.

<rant off>

Carry on...
;-)

maxhonda99

Wale_Bate,

What will your next car be? BMW 3-series? That is going to be the only car left with a straight-6.

wale_bate1

I doubt it Max. Indications are that the next 3 will not only be bigger, but will likely not appear in touring form in the US.

I'm not inclined to move out of the compact sport-lux wagon segment, and with RWD now likely out of the question, I'm turning to AWD. If Audi keeps the A4 at its current size, then I'm very actively toying with the idea of the S4 Avant. If it bloats, then I think the A3 Sportback might get the nod, though I'm hoping they'll bring a DSG S3 Sportback variant by '06.

lexusguy

Something I just read, the MR2 spyder is getting the axe along with the Celica. It appears that Toyota has pretty much accepted the brands aging customers, and is giving up and letting the kids go after Scion, rather than trying to buck the trend again. Well, except for the Corolla XRS. I still dont understand the reasoning behind that car. Camry SE sales are like 10%, so what makes them think a "sporty" Corolla would be different?

alpha01

It costs Toyota basically nothing extra to offer the XRS Corolla, so why not? There was no extra R&D, property, plant, equipment costs, or any of that. The parts are already produced for the Matrix at the same factory, so its an easy way to further penetrate the small car market. You also might want to check out Car and Driver's VERY favorable 'Short Take' on the car in this months issue. If I was in the market, Id be considering one- loaded (side curtains, moonroof, JBL 6 CD changer etc) at 20 grand, and you can probably get it for closer 18.

Anybody who keeps up with Toyota knew that the Celica was on its way out, so its sad, but not shocking to me.

~alpha

maxhonda99

THe demise of the Celica is definately not shocking. The Scion tc is basically taking the place of the Celica in Toyota showrooms. YOu might as well call the Scion tc the Celica!

lexusguy

I already knew the fate of the Celica, I was just surprised about the MR2 spyder. While the Celica will be gone, its 1.8L 4 will stay to power the Lotus Elise.

maxhonda99

I believe the MR2 will be coming back. Supposedly, I have read and I'm sure you have also, that they are thinking about bringing it back with a hybrid powertrain for the next iteration.

The 1.8L 4 also lives on in the Corolla XRS and Matrix.

boomsama

Can someone tell me what the type of woodgrain on the GS that was in detroit is? It doesn't really look like woodgrain.

boomsama

One more thing about the GS. I don't see any headlight washers.

lexi4life

The GS showed in Detroit wasn't THE real GS that will come out in march 2005. What I mean is that some options and features can be added easily on this car; we're still 6-7 months before its launch... They could even decide not to put the 3 liter engine 245 hp. and put the 3.5 liter 270 hp. of the next avalon. Perhaps it's gonna get an all new V8! We don't know what they will change.

boomsama

I like the 3.5L

masc

You people have to stop underestimating the potential of the upcoming 3L V6. True, back in autoshow in Detroit Lexus announced the V6 to produce only 245hp and 228 lb-ft torque but for those who are aware of Toyota developments around the world they would have noticed that the new 12th generation Toyota Crown utilizes the same exact 3L V6 with D4 injection technology, and in the Crown the same 3L V6 is able to produce 252 hp and 231 lb/ft of torque. As it is common for models to receive increases in power after several yrs, it is very likely that the 3L V6 will be able to be tuned for a higher power rating in later years.

boomsama

Whats D4?

Also, it would be nice of them to upgrade the power before they release the engine. If they leave it at 245hp when the release it, it will already be outpowered by others.

masc

D-4 is Direct Injection 4 Stroke Gasoline Engine

The new Toyota Crown has a 3.0L (3GR-FSE) Dual VVT-i&#12288;with D-4 technology V6 engine.

It is not at all surprising that Lexus would introduce an engine with an output less than its full potential. Many other auto manufacturers often increase the power of their engines after several years. For example, the 3.5L V6 from the Altima has received numerous power increses in the past few years.

boomsama

I still think that the power output will be increased a bit before it's final production date.

lexusguy

From what I know about the car currently, Lexus will offer all three engines, with something like this: the 3.0L 245hp as the base engine, the 300hp 4.3L V8 (for now) in the middle, and the 3.5L 270+ hp V6 + HSD for something like 470hp at the top. I know that sounds wierd, but thats what the currently available information is saying.

The Crown engine may be making a few more ponies, but remember, its not sold here in NA. The Japanese have different emissions standards than we do, that may have something to do with it.

boomsama

Does the 2006 GS use a foot operated handbrake?

lexi4life

What will happen to the 2005 GS? Will they keep it in the lexus line-up for model year 2005 or there won't be any 2005 GS and they'll wait for the new 2006 in march? We're still at least 6 months away from march 2005...

lexi4life

Yeah, I think so 'cause I saw some pics of the next GS and I think there is a foot handbrake. But as I said previously, they (lexus) can change whatever they want before launching this car in March 2005.

boomsama

That would be nice, foot handbrakes are a bit annoying.

lexi4life

It's a sport sedan, normally there should be a "real" handbrake. But it's a bit late to launch this car... They could have launched it at least for THE 2005 model year or even the 2004. The old GS exists since 1997 or 1998?

lexusguy

the lack of a proper handbrake would be strange, especially if Lexus is trying to establish the GS as a serious player this time. If the new GS is an '06 model, most likely there wont be an '05, just as there wasnt a '01 SC.

The current GS has been around since the '98 MY, with the 400 first being offered for that time. Curiously, the first GS was I believe a '93 model, with a complete redesign for '98, only a 5 year run. The current car has been allowed to sit for much longer, with only VERY light changes for the '01 MY. I agree its run is a bit long in the tooth, but Lexus' attention was diverted towards the new RX and GX, and the GS, which has never been a sales spectacular, was put on the back burner.

lexi4life

No 2005 model is a good thing. Sales are already abyssmal so I don't wanna imagine what they would be if there was a 2005 model with almost everyone knowing that the 2006 would be redesigned...

maxhonda99

The '05/'06 GS will have a footbrake for the parking brake. It's been that way since the first GS. If you notice the ES's parking brake went to the footbrake also for the '97 model year. I believe more and more carmakers are doing this to free up space on the center console for buttons needed for all the gizmos and cupholders.

lexusguy

The ES had a handbrake at one time? I always assumed that it would just share a footbrake with the Camry.

maxhonda99

Yes, the original ES250 had a handbrake by the center console armrest and so did the 1992-1996 ES300.

lexusguy

Interesting, I never knew that. I've not driven those old ES or GS, just the SC and LS.

boomsama

I dont see any reason why Lexus shouldnt use a handbrake. If they are using it for space saving reasons, the centre console isnt exactly what I would call efficient use of space. The only car where I have seen efficient use of space in removal of the handbrake is in the A6 and A8.

maxhonda99

If you put the handbrake in the middle you generally get a smaller center console storage space as well as loss of space to put buttons for things like heated seats, and of course they would have to move the cupholders to someplace else. And you know how us Americans love those cupholders!!

And as the GS is not coming with a manual transmission, you won't see a handbrake. The pictures of the new GS interior already show it's a footbrake.

boomsama

I love my cupholders too...

With the images released so far, they don't include accesories like headlamp washers, etc. They'll be in the production model yeah?

Also on another note, is the Crown Athlete a Toyota derivative of the 2006 GS? I see a lot of resemblence in the cockpit, even the seats are extremely similar.

maxhonda99

I would wait until final specs for the engine are released. I think they are just playing the waiting game and when the GS does come closer to introduction, it will have more power than what they originally said.

boomsama

I hope they up the power before they release it. 245hp just isnt enough.

jrock65

I don't think power will go up much, unless they decide to use the 3.3L or 3.5L.

They may add on a few hp to the 3.0L, but there's only so much torque you can sqeeze out of it.

boomsama

I'll be happy if they equal or surpass the A6 3.2FSI in power and torque.