Lexus GS 300/GS 430

lexi4life

Whoa! You should stop saying 245 hp isn't enough. Nobody has driven this car yet so I don't see how you can underestimate that engine. Look: BMW 530 have what, 225 hp? And E320? 221.
So I think that 245 hp for the GS is enough, the current one has 220 and it's ok. And then you're gonna tell me the next M will have what, 280 hp? Well hp doesn't always count, but acceleration always counts. Look, G35 had 260 hp (in 2004) and did the 0-100 KM/H in 7.1 seconds. The IS, with 215 (it's 45 hp less!) does the 0-100 km/h in
7.7 seconds (!). Ok, the G35 is approximatively 101 pounds heavier, but it's more aerodynamic (only cx of 0,26)! I think the IS is like 0,30. That's what I think: perhaps lexus IS have more horsepower than lexus states OR infiniti G35 have less horsepower than infiniti states. That's just what I think, don't start telling I'm mad...

boomsama

youre mad, jk. Anyway, so youre just saying the IS accelerated to 100km/h 0.6 slower than the G35 because the IS has less power?

lexusguy

Ive seen Gs pull faster runs than 7.1 seconds. I think a better example though, is the Q45 vs, LS430. The Q has a 50hp advantage, but loses in 0-60 for the Lexus. Thank sloppy gearing for that. The GS300 may only be the entry level model, something like the 525i if both Toyotas new 3.5L and 4.3L engines are used as well.

legendman

>But the new A6 has disappointing rear end styling<

I just wish that the rear end of the new 2005 RL looked half as good as the new A6 ... pure sculpture as far as I am concerned. Clean, symmetrical and elegant. No trunk hump!

Too bad that Audi reliablility is consistently poor.

maxhonda99

lexi4life,

You do realize the the BMW 3.0L straight 6 will be replaced next year by a 258BHP engine next year? And the E320's 3.2L V6 is going to be replaced by a 268BHP, I think, 3.5/3.7L V6 next year?

Looking at the figures Lexus has released for the 3.0L V6 in the GS, it was way less torque than BHP and torque is what gets you to 60MPH. So I do not see how it will pull surprising 0-60 numbers that will also be better than it's competition when it only will have 220 or lb-ft of torque and 245bhp when BMW will have 258BHP and much more than 220lb-ft of torque and so on.

Also remember BMW's always seem to produce more power than on paper.

Your comparison of the IS300 vs. G35 is valid, but also look at other competition. Check out the 325i or 330i vs. IS300. The 330i has 200BHP and similar weight to the IS300 yet the IS300 gets smoked. And actually the 325i is faster also to 60 than the IS300, and the 325i has alot less BHP.

maxhonda99

The fastest GS300 run I've seen posted for the current gen. GS300 is around 7.5.

lexi4life

Well, I didn't think about MB and BMW adding horsepower on their E and 5. But you know, lexus wants this time to be really competitive with the german competition, so I wouldn't be surprised it has the 3.5 when this car is launched, because lexus as plenty of time before launching it and when they'll hear that MB and BMW added more horsepower to their cars, they'll react. They don't want their GS to be underpowered; new STS, A6 and RL are arriving, too. But perhaps they'll wait until the new lexus V8 arrives (4.6 or 5 liter) because if not, the base and the upscale versions will be too close in hp. Lexus doesn't want its GS to have less horsepower than the smaller G35, too. And it is sure that the 3.3 won't be used in the next GS because it has been made for FWD and AWD cars.

boomsama

Apparently the new A6 is larger than the GS in every dimension except wheelbase, where the GS is 10cm longer. Does this possibly mean more leg room for the occupants in the GS than the A6?

maxhonda99

Hard to say. Since the A6 is kinda a FWD product, it may have more front leg room. Besides, from just 10cm more in wheelbase, it's hard to really know which car will have more legroom.

masc

The Crown Athlete is NOT a Toyota derivative of the 2006 GS. They may be of the same class (RWD, mid-size sport sedans) of the same company but the Crown is intended for customers (in Japan) looking for more luxury than sport and the Aristo (the GS in Japan), for customers looking for more sport than luxury. And on top of that the Crown has been around for over 40yrs more than the Aristo (GS). So even though they may share SOME "similarities", i can assure you that the Crown and the GS are completely different cars.

maxhonda99

Do the Crown and the Aristo/GS have the same underpinnings(platform)?

montaire

Does anyone know what the length, width and height are for the 2006 Lexus GS 430?

boomsama

The car is 4821mm long, 1821mm wide, 1425mm high and has a wheelbase of 2850mm, 51mm longer than old car.

lexi4life

Yes, I think so, but as people said previously, these 3 cars have 3 different missions.
Crown: luxury, confort, smooth ride
GS: luxury, sport, excitement
Aristo: a blend of the two?

maxhonda99

The Aristo isn't a blend of the two. The Aristo and the GS are the same car. The exterior and interior are identical on both cars. Of course, the Aristo will disappear next year in Japan when Lexus is introduced there. The only difference though between the current Aristo and GS is engine and feature differentiation.

The Crown on the other hand, has the same basic platform but has totally different sheetmetal and a different interior, therefore is probably marketed to a different type of consumer.

lexi4life

I don't understand that Japanese people are paying the price of a luxury car to get a TOYOTA.
I know, it must have luxury features, leather, etc. but people there would pay an extra to have a luxury toyota? It's the same thing than the Volkswagen Pheaton, I wonder if it sells well.

boomsama

just a question for those who have seen the GS in real life, does it have an extremely large rear like a camry?

Another thing. I've just noticed that the glove box in the GS actually doesnt have one of those convetional lever things. Instead it has a button like thing.

jrock65

"Look, G35 had 260 hp (in 2004) and did the 0-100 KM/H in 7.1 seconds."

That was one test and it was an extreme outlier. Every other test has clocked the G35 auto to go 0-60 in the 6.1 to 6.4 seconds. The G35 manual is a couple of ticks less than that.

"The Q has a 50hp advantage, but loses in 0-60 for the Lexus."

There was a R&T comparo in which the LS clocked in at 6.4s, and the Q clocked in at 6.5s. However, MT and C&D have clocked the Q at 5.8s and 5.9s, respectively. I've seen the LS clocked as low as 6.1s.

In any case, I do agree there is more to straightline performance than just hp. Lexus has never really participated in "horsepower wars" anyway. That's really between Honda and Nissan.

boomsama

Perhaps Lexus might participate in these "horsepower wars" since they are now a selling point?

lexusguy

"I don't understand that Japanese people are paying the price of a luxury car to get a TOYOTA.
I know, it must have luxury features, leather, etc. but people there would pay an extra to have a luxury toyota? It's the same thing than the Volkswagen Pheaton, I wonder if it sells well."

People in Japan pay for Honda instead of Acura, and Nissan instead of Infiniti. Whats the difference?

carlisimo

They're not paying extra to have a luxury toyota. They're paying extra to have a luxury car, that happens to be a toyota. A name they respect, maybe even grew up with. Maybe it's a brand loyalty thing... stay with the same company no matter how much your life changes over the years.

But now the Japanese will be buying Lexuses too. Must seem weird to the buyers there.

boomsama

Some of the Toyota models over there have their own type of badge, not the standard Toyota one.

lexusguy

Thats true, the Soarer, or at least the old coupe, had a lion badge, not the standard Toyota rings.

hittindabowl

I like lexus, but I think there just way to conservative, and afraid to be trend setters. But isn't being conservative and simple there goal? I think lexus is doing a great job at attracting the baby boomers they want.

boomsama

It appears that things will be set for the GS by the Paris Motor show this month. The article says "GS300" but then it goes on to call it "GS330", so i'm not sure what it's going to be. Keyless entry, adaptive headlights, rear view camera, tyre pressure warning system, front passenger and driver knee airbags are all standard.

http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/Tig/UI/ArticlePopup.aspx?market=ca- r&articleid=6502&Alias=carpointau

lexi4life

I don't think the GS is gonna get the 3.3, you know. The 3.3 was made for FWD and FWD based AWD cars (camry, ES, highlander, RX, sienna, solara). And it'd be strange to see them put this engine in the next GS, since it is bigger and less powerful than 3.0. What I think is that lexus/toyota doesn't want to tell people it is gonna be a 3.5 making 275 hp so they lie and say it's gonna have a 3.3. Lexus knows acura, BMW, infiniti, and Mercedes are preparing some VERY powerful new engines to put in their cars. And they probably don't want to tell everybody 6 months before the GS's launch what the engine and power will be. If they did, well perhaps other car makers would up the power of their competiting cars so that when the GS comes out, it is already outpowered.

lexusguy

The GS300 is a crazy mystery regarding its engine. They dont have to quote specific figures, but generally most companies make it quite clear what engine their cars are going to have well in advance. If Lexus was going to offer a 3.5L GS350 at launch, they would've said so by now, and said something like 260+ hp. I think its pretty much gauranteed that the GS300 will launch with the 3.0L 245hp engine that has been talked about several times. Its not much of a secret that Toyota is working on a 3.5L 270+ hp engine, but I think its a few years off.

boomsama

Probably engine upgrades for the GS' midlife.

lenscap

"Its not much of a secret that Toyota is working on a 3.5L 270+ hp engine, but I think its a few years off."

From what I've read the 3.5L V6 will be in the new Avalon that launches early in 2005, only a few months away.

mariner7

Toyota should have several versions of its 3.5, a la Nissan. 270+ in an Avalon just doesn't sound right. 210 is already stretching it!

GS has the kind of Lexus understated look, I can see it as the new look of Lexus. Does anyone know which studio did it, Tokyo/California/Europe?

lexusguy

Its hard to say at this point. I think it will offer 3 engines with the GS300 being entry level, but after that.. Toyota may offer the 3.5L as the middle slot car, or the GS430 may occupy that spot, with the GS350GT at the top. Its really anyone's guess at this point. Only Toyota knows what they're going to do with this GS generation.

covester

Lexus.com is showing 2005 models on the GS series, any changes at all from 2004? When is the 2006 due to hit?

Avalon will have to move into the 270+ to compete with the Nissan offering. The Acura TL also has this offering. With sales of the Avalon being down, I am sure you will see a more modern higher HP vehicle. If it comes out in Feb with all the bells and whistles in the $32K range, I think It will be a hit.

lexusguy

I'm not so sure about that. The Avalon has never competed with the Maxima or the TL. It is more of a value priced, slightly bigger ES330 for those that dont want\need the status of the L badge, and I dont think that is going to change. Max and TL also suffer from torque steer, and I think that is something Toyota is probably going to want to avoid. I would expect maybe 240 - 250hp, and increased luxury content for freshened Avalon. It would make a poor sports sedan. The all new Lexus IS is what Toyota is positioning to take on Max\G35 and TL.

covester

Lexus guy,
Agree with you, mostly. I know it probably is hidden in all the post, but when is the new body style for the GS due to hit the market and do you have an estimate of target price?
Not much into the L or M badge, bought two new avalons for everyday cars. Still have the 2000 XLS, it has been a fantastic car. Have a 98 E320 with 18K miles sitting in the garage. Still smells new, bottom line we would rather drive the Avalon. However, I have had it for 5 years and want something new, GS revised body style is a high choice.
Note: You always have good comments..

lenscap

covester - The all-new 2006 GS goes on sale March 1, 2005.

lexusguy

Lexus doesnt pack in all the bells and whistles as standard like Acura does, so I'm guessing that the '06 GS will start somewhere around $45-46K.

boomsama

lenscap, id think it would go on sale a bit earlier than that, as it is suppose to be available down here in Australia in February 2005.

lenscap

The U.S. on-sale date for the new GS is March 1, 2005 (unless it changes). Perhaps Australia is getting them sooner.

On a related note, the new GS will be a 2006 model here in the states. I believe there is a regulation that to be a 2006 a car cannot go on sale any sooner than March 1 of the year before (in this case, March 1, 2005).

hydroman1

Do you expect the GS300 and GS400 the debut simultaneously in the US?

lexusguy

Its possible. The last generation 300 and 400 came out at the same time. There arent going to be any changes this year to the 4.3L V8, so I dont see why not.

loslobos71

Hey guys, im in the market for a new car next august. I looked at the pictures of the Lexus ES330 on lexus.com and then looked at the pictures of the 2006 GS on edmunds and realized that the ES is a much nicer interior with more wood, etc. It also looked a lot more like the LS430. On the ES you can get mark levinson audio and a navigation system too. So what are the advantages to the GS? just size? Thanks

lexusguy

The ES and GS are very different cars. The ES is a front drive car, based on the camry platform. Think of a Camry XLE, with the luxury knob turned up to 11. The car is heavily biased in favor of luxury over sport. If you want something that drives like a cloud and coddles you, its a great car. However, fun, it is not.

Both the outgoing GS and new one offer a Levinson sound system and NAV system as well. In fact, NAV is available on every Lexus, and the ML sound system on every one but the IS. The GS300\430 is a RWD sport sedan, though it doesnt succeed in that mission as well as say, a 540i. Its closer to the E in terms of sport factor. The outgoing GS300 is a little slow because its about to be retired 3.0L Inline 6 is a little weak for that application. The GS430 is as fast as any V8 from Germany though, not including tuner division cars. The outgoing car doesnt have the greatest interior in the Lexus line up, but remember those '06 pictures are of the concept. Lexus has yet to reveal any actual pictures of the new GS to the public yet.

loslobos71

Thanks.....makes more sense now =]

lexi4life

So it's the GS330? They are gonna use the 3.3 another time? I wish they up the hosrepower a lot because 225 hp is not a lot for a 3.3...
Honda's 3 liter V6 from the accord: 240 hp
Nissan's 3.5 liter V6 from everything: 295 hp in its most powerful version (but I personnaly think they overrate their engines a lot...)

lexusguy

The GS will not use the 3.3L engine from Camry\ES\RX. It seems like the 3.3L is an interim engine, basically a bump to the old 3.0L V6 while Toyota works on an all new 3.5L engine.

lexi4life

Ah, ok.

hydroman1

By "interim engine" do you mean the 3.3L will be used for development only - or that the GS will debut with a 3.3L and then be upgraded sometime later to the 3.5L?

lexusguy

I mean interim as in once the 3.5L engine makes its debut, the 3.3L engine will most likely disappear. From what I've read in several sources, GS will never use the 3.3L. Everyone is saying GS300 will have a new 3.0L 245hp V6, that is not related to the Camry's old 3.0L. What Toyota may do is offer an IS250 with a new 2.5L V6, IS300 with this new 3.0L, and top the range with an IS350GT with the 3.5L. The GS300 should start with this new 3.0L, the GS430, and top model would be the GS350GT hybrid. Or Lexus may discontinue the V8 when the V6 hybrid comes out. Hard to say at this point.

hydroman1

Interesting. Does Lexus usually keep this information under wraps until their cars make it to the showrooms or do they roll 'em out earlier with fanfare? When do you think we will get our first glimpse of the production 2006 GS and be made aware of its final specifications?

maxhonda99

I would think we will see a final production version at the '05 Detroit auto show which is in the first week of January. They would probably release the final production GS with a few changes(if at all) and production specs. You should also see car magazines get their hands on pre-production GS's in the January 2005 or February 2005 issues.