Mazda MX-Flexa / Mazda5

lamjp

lamjp

durability05

Just verified with the wife, we are replacing our ultra low mileage pilot with a Mazda5 early to mid 2006. There is more to life than having 7 passenger capacity 100% of the time, but having lug around a 4500 pound SUV that is 78 inches or so wide with the handling of a boat. We need a mini-van/sport wagon with the handling of a sport sedan. Now with question of how many Mazda5 are coming to the US, I hope that demand won't be too heavy, so that the car won't have the Honda syndrome of no discounts or incentives. A mild incentive of $1K to 2K with a purchase price of close to invoice would be great. FYI , I bought our excellent Focus for $2.5K incentives and $1500 below invoice.

bodble2

So the main issue your wife has with the Pilot is its bulk?

charlotte7

Any idea when the Mazda5 will arrive here? Here for me is Texas.

durability05

Yes, she finds it as bulky, me I can drive any vehicle, since I work for the Power company, we drive 4 x 4 pickups. The Pilot is smooth and quite for an SUV, but it isolates you from the road at the same time, that it makes it self bigger than what it is, except it really is wide. My wife requires that we own one 6 or 7 seater, but she just likes to drive small sporty vehicles. The Focus Mazda engine is one strong engine, we have the 2 liter PZEV in california. I am very sure the Mazda 5 2.3 liter should be even more powerful and smoother. The good thing with the Honda Pilot is that it does not depreciate much, so trading in our Pilot by Dec. this year with only 12,000 miles for an 18 month old SUV should be OK, I should only take a neglible hit.

durability05

There is a website called Japanesecarfans.com, it has the New York Auto show debut of the Mazda5. It has lots of pictures and a write-up on the Mazda5. I think from what I read in Motor Trend a couple of months back, and on the New York show, it would be probably a US introduction in October this year. My wife wants to trade our year old Honda Pilot by the end of this year. I still remember as a kid in the 70's when people were unprepared for the gas crunch, if it does occur again in a couple of years, we should be ready and properly downsized for $3 gallon gas.

stickguy

Dang, that hideaway seat and tray deal looks slick. Not sure why Mazda soesn't think that the US would like to have the seat. Maybe it's a safety issue? Not sure where the seat belts for that one are hidden.

Will we at least get the tray? Or a console?

That design would work very well for my needs. Just need to fix the buzzy engine syndrome.

npaladin2000

I actually got to play around with the 5 for a while while I was at the mazda display bugging them about the MX-Crossport.

First of all, sitting in the driver's seat felt like coming home to my Mazda3. And yes, that's a compliment. The shifter isn't in quite as good a position, but it had to be moved off of the floor, and it ended up OK, and falls nicely to the hand (what I can tell anyway...they unscrewed the shift knob. heh). The stack is completely different, but it has the same accessory port as any other Mazda. The one they had there had automatic climate control, which is definitely a nice plus to have on a vehicle of this type. Also, the glovebox is Mazda3 sized (meaning a cavern).

What really surprised me was the seating in the second row. I'm 6 foot and 230 pounds, just to let you know. And that second row seat was COMFORTABLE! I can't speak for the fold-out jump seat, since it wasn't present, but this is the version of the Mazda3 that you want to buy if you need to put more than 2 adults in the car. THe 3rd row looked like kids only, really didn't want to try to get back there, but a lot of younger teenagers were scrambling back there with no problem at all. Also, there's storage under the second-row cushions whenever the jump-seat or center bin is deployed.

Cargo space behind the third row is minimal..think Chevy Aveo or less. But dropping the third row seats gives you a space the size of a Mazda6 wagon to play with, and you don't HAVE to drop both seats, for instance, if you need to carry 5 people and cargo.

I think this thing's gonna sell> Ideally, it would go to someone interested in a 3, but whose wife starts worrying "well, we've got the baby and another one coming, and we need something PRACTICAL, not another male toy." If it's sold as a practicality upgrade to the 3, it'll sell well, since it's going to be cheaper than the 6.

AWD would be a nice option to develop for this thing though...families go for the safety factor, and AWD minivans sell pretty well. But it'll likely need a bigger engine to handle AWD, or mabye a turbo. Something this heavy would need around 180 HP to handle AWD properly.

But I can just see kids going "WHEEEE!!!" as daddy drives around "Zoom Zoom!" style

bodble2

You're right about families going for safety. AWD, V6, 5 speed auto, electronic stability control -- these would make me take out my cheque book in a heartbeat.

bodble2

I know where your wife is coming from regarding the width of the Pilot. I may have bought one if it weren't for the width. I have no problem with the length, but I've always wondered if Honda couldn't have made the Pilot/MDX twins 2-3 inches narrower and not lose interior room appreciably. As you know, from behind the wheel, when you're trying to maneuvre into a tight parking space, 2 inches would seem like 2 feet.

wheelz4

I can understand your enthusiasm for the Mazda5, too bad it doesn't live up to all your claims.
I could even forgive the tuner-styling add-ons and would be first in line if it would get 45 mpg highway. You must be confusing it with the Matrix, for even the smaller, lighter Mazda3 with the less powerful 2.0 litre engine can just eke out 46 highway (44 with an automatic) ;the Mazda3 with the 2.3l gets 42/37 highway (manual/auto). The '5' will probably be very similar to the Mazda Tribute with the 2.3, as they weigh about the same, so you're realisticly looking at 38/39 mpg highway with the manual and 33/34 mph highway with the automatic. In fact, Mazda Canada's own estimates for the '5' with the auto are about 34 highway mpg. About the same as the much heavier, much more powerful V6 Toyota Sienna, so there goes your fuel-economy advantage.

starlightmica

From what I've read, the center tray table will be standard on the Touring, along with fold down trays from the front row seats. The PlusOne seat is a no-go. My guess is to prevent cannibalizing sales from the MPV, but who knows.

I don't think lack of advertising will be a big problem for a low volume 4 cylinder vehicle with gas prices climbing ever week, but that's just my guess. Last summer, new vehicle buyers moved out of big SUV's into compact SUV's and minivans, and I would expect the trend to continue.

Wheelz4 - my real world econonmy with my 2004 Sienna is 18 city/24 hwy (vs US EPA 19/27). I would imagine it would be difficult for a Mazda5 to do better.

acerguy

From the Mazda Canada M5 forum (as originally posted by the forum administrator and converted by myself)...

5MT
City: 10.6L/100 km = 26.6mpg (22.2mpg US)
Highway: 8.0L/100 km = 35.3mpg (29.4mpg US)

4AT
City: 11.2L/100 km = 25.2mpg (21.0mpg US)
Highway: 8.3L/100 km = 34.0mpg (28.3mpg US)

So nothing all that special. At least not to those of us that have been driving "economy" cars since the 70's!

And regarding the +1 seating...the "official" response on the Mazda Canada forum is always that it "won't meet crash standards"....hmmmmm...I'm a little suspect of that.

tpat3

Don't you already have lots of choices with AWD, V6, 5 spd. auto, stability, etc.? Why do you want to turn the 5 into something it is not?

ateixeira

You really found it that comfy?

I kind of found the back seat a little cramped when the front seat was most of the way back. Comfort was OK I guess but it felt a bit tight.

-juice

npaladin2000

I found the MIDDLE seat comfy, yeah. The rear seat looks like it'd be a bit of a scramble to get to. Not sure how well child seats would fare there, but mobile kids and young teens shouldn't have any trouble. The middle row seats honestly feel just like the front buckets.

As for the add on stuff someone was asking about, we're not talking about turning the Mazda5 into something it's not, but enhancing what it is. AWD would me a great addon for a mini/micro van. And I doubt a V6 would be good unless it was around 2.5 liters, but they could probably do a 2.5 liter 4 instead.

durability05

It just seems we always miss some parking spaces, becauses the Pilot is too wide. Anyway during lunch I drop by the Mazda dealer, and they gave me a brochure on the future Mazda 5. And they would mail me the actual brochure in a couple of months. I told them I would trade my Pilot in September. Our rarely driven Pilot, would now only go out on essential trips, I'm only $1,000 upside down on paper, so that means $2,000! So my 04 Jeep wrangler X is out of hibernation and back on the road to take over the pilot, until we get the Mazda 5. The Focus ZX4 does 67% of the driving.

durability05

Thanks for the impressions of the Mazda 5 at the NYIAS, I actually sat on a Mazda 3 hatch to imagine what a Mazda 5 is. Your extensive write up is just what I needed. Now I have a much better idea. Does the Mazda 5 have a shorter hood than the Mazda 3 hatch? Since it is only two inches longer, how did they get 3 rows inside, with a small aveo like trunk?

bodble2

I think npaladin2000 basically answer your question for me. What I want is a safe, fun-to-drive, all-weather family-friendly vehicle that doesn't drive and suck gas like a land yacht, which most minivans and SUVs have become. Maybe I'm expecting too much.

npaladin2000

Yeah, basically. I've seen the trunk on the Aveo. With the third row of seats in use, the Mazda5 cargo area behind the seats is about the same size. But drop those seats and put the kids in the middle row and you've got what looks like more cargo space than a Mazda6 wagon.

mdaffron

How did the headroom compare -- in real life -- to the headroom in the 3?

Meade

dudleyr

The problem is the middle row only seats two, so if you drop the rear seat for lots of cargo you have a 4 passenger vehicle. Why not have two versions. One with a normal 3 person bench, and one with the buckets, then everybody is happy.

As far as mpg goes - break the trend and offer a nice diesel. If Honda and Toyota can get 34 mpg out of the larger (about the same weight though) Accord and Camry, then Mazda should be aiming for that range. Give it a tall top gear and revs will drop, mpg will go up and noise will go down. So what if you have to downshift for the occasional hill.

stickguy

not as big of an issue on a small car (IMO). the back seat is really for 2, with the 3rd only in a pinch (and if they are all skinny). You could drop 1/2 the 3rd row, and put the 5th passenger in the back.

The way I look at it, if you regularly carry 5 passengers + stuff, you probably need something in a bigger size class.

dudleyr

Some of us interested in the vehicle have kids, and 3 kids fit easily in the rear seat of just about any car. Right now they fit fine in the back of my 3 door Integra. I just want 4 doors with more cargo space and good handling. The Mazda 6 wagon would be close to perfect, but it is such a guzzler (as bad as a minivan).

I already have a minivan for trips, so I don't need or want anything large. The whole point of the second vehicle is to have something smaller for zipping around town in, that I can still throw the occasional bike in the back or baseball and soccer gear.

Actually the vehicle that comes closest to what I need is the Ford Focus wagon, but I still have a few issues with that vehicle. If only it had the interior and reliability of the Mazda 3. Reliabilty is much improved recently, so I may lean that way.

And no, the Mazda 3 hatch won't do - tiny storage space, and I prefer the efficient 2.0 liter engine. If both of those were fixed it would be about perfect for me, but just one would still probably put it at the top of my list. Jetta wagon (TDI) is another contender, but rear seat is a little cramped and reliability is questionable.

Fortunately the Integra still runs fine (with 188,000 miles - original owner) so I am in no hurry.

jjacura

Bodble2...Please go to the RL forum...we could use your help (It's a Caadian RL question)

npaladin2000

Headroom is a little more than the 3. Not a lot, since while the roof is elevated, the seats are also elevated a bit.

Don't forget about the evil, uncomfortable jump seat in the second row. Looks uncomfortable in the photos anyway. But yeah, I think ideally for 5 passengers you'd drop one rear seat for cargo space and use the other for the passenger. Right there you get more cargo room than a Mazda3, and actual real 5 person seating. 5 PERSONS, not 2 persons and 3 half-pints like the 3. Yeah, I can fit behind myself in a 3 but I definitely wouldn't want to do it regularly. In the 5 regularly carrying a pair of larger people right behind the driver is do-able.

jazvan

This is the same conclusion I'm coming too. The Focus is looking more logical to me. It has in fact a "destroked" 2.3 without variable valves, but the combustion chambers are identical and it is pulling about 500 less lbs. Highway MPG is about 6MPG higher then MZ5. Gearing is normal, not buzzy. The cargo bay is 45" between the wheel wells vs 41" for the Mazda5 - go figure that one out. The max cargo volume spec is nearly identical in a car that is 2" narrower, 3" shorter and 6" lower!! Check out the rear suspension - exact same design as the MZ5, just the original version. 3 passenger rear seat. On the flip side the interior is old-school and the 05 front exterior style "refresh" was a step backwards IMHO. Crashworthiness is no doubt better on MZ5 and no air curtains on Focus. I am in need of a replacement pretty soon and am now looking at a recent used Focus (maybe that mediocre resale can work to my advantage). A few even have traction control which you can't get on MZ5.

-Jaz

ateixeira

Headroom seemed plentiful, in fact it was a non-issue. I'm about 6' even for reference.

They basically packaged things upward, a little taller, so it feels roomier than the 3 despite not being much longer.

I thought the middle row was OK, not great. I wouldn't complain if I had to ride there, though.

-juice

vtec2

I wish they would've used the 5-sp auto that's going in the '06 Mazda6 4-cyl. That would probably solve the revs-noise-mpg issues.

yustas

I went to Autoshow last Sunday and had a chance to sit in the Mazda5, auto, blue... I was truly disappointed. The seats did not feel right to me, just a little too small, too flimsy... Yes, I could sit behind myself, and one could move and recline the second row seats, but after that you may forget about third row. There is just No leg room! Basically, the car feels like a 95% scaled copy of the minivan... No good...
The rep on the floor said it should be in the showrooms June-July.

durability05

jaz , why not buy a brand new 05 Focus. We bought our ZX4 automatic as an extra car, but its performance, has just amazed us. We owned a
2001 Zetec before, the PZEV which is a Mazda engine without variable valve timing, is just plain very powerful, for its simplicity. The Focus is not as refined, but a real bargain, we got our MSRP$16200 for only $12,000 after discounts and rebates, almost as good as used, I think you can get a wagon for less than $14,000. We do plan to get a Mazda 5 when it comes out, need the 6 seats for that occasional get together.

durability05

July availability, thanks for the imformation, we plan to buy in September, that should have some units available for discount and dealing.
We are looking for small sporty wagon, with an occasional 6 seat capability, half the time my wife would drive in it alone. I checked out the Mazda 3 hatch and I was wondering how you can fit an extra row with the extra 2 inches, aha they shortened the hood a few inches and increase the height to elevate the seats.

jazvan

05 is on the list too. I want a 5-speed and there are very few wagons but I have located a few and even some with traction control and SAB. Personally, I find the new front end styling so disjointed compared to the old style, but that is just me. So I am monitoring 03 and 04's (transferable warranties still in effect) and also waiting for rebate to go up to $3K on the 05's. Is your PZEV hard-starting at all? OK, I'm getting a little off topic. We can go over to Focus Wagon Forum. Thanks for your input.

-Jaz

jazvan

From another site:

"The all-new MAZDA5 multi-activity vehicle made its North American debut at the NAIAS in Detroit. The groundbreaking MAZDA5 is a six-passenger vehicle that drives like a sportscar yet has the functionality of a large SUV. Inside, the MAZDA5 has a unique and flexible seating arrangement that allows for occupant and cargo versatility, while the flowing wedge-shaped exterior is defined by solid proportions, making it unmistakably Mazda. The MAZDA5 shares its underpinnings with the highly successful MAZDA3, including four-wheel disc brakes, four-wheel independent suspension and a 2.3-liter, 157-horsepower engine. MAZDA5 will be available at Mazda dealers in summer, 2005.

Today Mazda insiders leaked information detailing the existence of a Mazdaspeed version of the new MAZDA5 multi-activity vehicle. Powered by the same 2.3-liter DISI turbocharged engine tuned to provide 245 horsepower and 260 foot-lbs of torque, and all-wheel drive system that will be used in the upcoming Mazdaspeed MAZDA6 sports sedan, coupled to a new 6-speed manual transmission, the new Mazdaspeed5 will be a limited production model destined for the North American market only.

Standard items are said to include High Intensity Discharge headlamps, Dynamic Stability Control and special exterior colors available only for this model. A special interior color scheme is also said to be under development to "enhance the Mazdaspeed experience," of driving a special production model. Exterior changes to the car include flared front and rear fenders to accept larger 18inch wheels wider tires, side sill extensions, more agressive front fascia cover with a carbon-fiber-look splitter, as well as a new rear valance with integrated dual exhaust pipe treatment. Optional items include power adjustable seats for driver and front row passengers, as well as an armrest for the front seat passenger.

Production is set to begin in July/August of this year."

Interesting news leak date; April 1st.

-Jaz

audia8q

ok..I got US pricing today

MZ5 sport 17,435
MZ5 Touring 18,950

Auto trans 900
pop eq pkg on sport (6 disc, liftgate spoiler, side sills) 490
pearl paint 200
moonroof (sport) 700
navigation (touring) 2000

destination charge $560

charlotte7

Are ABS brakes going to be available on the 5 and if so, do you know how much that option will be, Audia8q?

javadoc

ABS with 'electronic brake force distribution' is standard on all trim levels of the MZ5.

durability05

Thanks for the prices, I think I read that fuel economy is 21 city and 28 highway.
Lately my Honda Pilot EX-L has been getting 17 city and 22 highway, it use to only get 15 / 20. Maybe it knows it would be replaced by a Mazda 5? So now I'm 50/50 on whether I would trade it in, it now has almost 6,000 miles and 10 months old. The trade in value is phenomenal which makes it possible for me trade it in, but has to be done before 2006, where 2004 would not sound slightly use anymore.

stickguy

Looks like a fully loaded 5 speed (non-nav) only come to about 19.5. Not too shabby.

Now, even if it was an April fools joke, I would line up for the speed version, and I bet I'm not the only one. Finally something to satisfy the gear head that likes compact cars that haul, but also need passenger and stuff room.

vtec2

It's an April fools joke.

(Daffy Duck voice) Ho, ho, very funny. Ha, ha, it is to laugh.

ateixeira

Rumor was accurate, 17435 plus 560 freight is $17,995 on the dot. That's very competitive.

MazdaSpeed would do the 3 first, before the 5.

-juice

dan bitman

I am in sync with you, Dudleyr.

The M5, 2.3L engine will not get the mileage/performance of a Honda or Toyo 2.4L engine. A much bigger and heavier Toyo Highlander ( SUV) runs smooth and is punchy enough ( 160hp), delivering an unbeatable 22-27 mpg.
TDI Jetta is cramped in the rear seat, indeed, but the cargo volume is impressive. The only " -" is the high price with options ( over 23K US$ ), although the TDI Wagons are Made in Germany, not in Mexico, as the gasoline models are.
We may get a good deal at the end of the year, for the last "outdated" 2005 models:)

Indeed M6 Wagon, even with a 5 spd auto, is a gas guzzler, worst then my wife's 03 Dodge Caravan.... The MPV has also very poor gas mileage, compared to ANY other minivan in its class!!
I've read ample and favorable technical reviews about the new Focus ( except for the styling:)))
I am waiting to see a 2 yrs JDP report on the wagon, and may decide on this.
For a 17K US$ you get a bigger 23K+ TDI Jetta with all options. Not even the gas mileage savings wouldn't make for the difference.
I also heard from friends that work directly in QC @ Ford Corp.in Dearborn, Mi, that overall Ford's quality control process improved dramatically in the last 2 years, esp. on the manufacturing side.
I would happily jump into a Focus Wagon, but I am still reluctant of its reliability after years of unreliable products and ridiculous recalls....
In the meantime, I can see the M5 following the same mediocre selling and performance path of the MPV, which is supposed to replace........
Too bad for a not finalized great intention and idea!
As I expect, Honda and Toyota will brilliantly finalized it.
Dan

ateixeira

Highlander is OK but Forester is even better, you get 23/30 mpg with a 165hp 2.5l and it even has AWD standard. Rear seat is tight but it's fine if you only have 2 kids.

The 5 had better be quicker, because you delete AWD and have a smaller engine for less fuel efficiency.

-juice

nwng

highlander 2wd would be my best bet. The rear seat is wide enough for 3 adults. And it got abs/traction/vsc standard. But no sidebags or curtain bags standard. you do get the toyota quality :surprise: and resale

ateixeira

Highlander looks great on paper but it wasn't very fun to drive, even the V6. I don't know what it was, too big or too heavy, but it just doesn't involve the driver one bit.

I think the 5 will be better in that regard. It had better be.

-juice

charlotte7

The Highlander is also a LOT more expensive!

bodble2

Picked up a brief brouchure at auto show. It looks like the Canadian version will not offer traction control or stability control. That, coupled with, IMO, a buzzy and over-taxed engine and an outdated 4-speed auto, probably means there'll be no M5 in my garage for the near future.

charlotte7

Is the American version going to have traction or stability control? Anyone know?

jazvan

That's a sore point with me that we kicked around a while back. No stability control. No traction control. ...and the Japanese version with the same 2.3 being made right on the same assembly line gets stability and traction control!

-Jaz