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Comments
I gotcha all scrambling to your newspapers this morning, huh?
Meade
It's like this:
BRAND NEW MPVs starting at $16,900!!!!!!!
Then the small print says (with $2000 down, plus freight, plus options, plus whatever else we feel like tacking on).
-juice
It's great to to hear that the 160Hp Mazda3 engine is so well thought of by those that own them. My Highlander makes me yawn when I drive (or rather, guide) it. Looking forward to a little more zoom.
If you don't care just skip the posts, no big deal.
I'll go off on another tangent that might interest you more - Mazda announced it will build the MX-Crossport.
-juice
http://www.rogerbeasleymazda.com/html2/newspecs.php
How do you like your 3 wagon? I can't decide if I want to splurge on an RX-8 next year or get a bit more practical with a 3. I'm really interested to see if the upcoming Mazdaspeed3 will satisfy my performance desires and still give me the practicallity of a hatch.
May I ask where you heard that? It's not on Mazda Japan's website.
Meade
I can't link to the site where I got that info due to the rules of our hosts.
-juice
The part about the "HAIL SALE"???
"DUE TO RECENT STORMS, MOST OF OUR NEW & USED INVENTORY RECEIVED HAIL DAMAGE. OUR MISFORTUNE IS YOUR FORTUNE. SAVE HUNDREDS, EVEN THOUSANDS ON ALL THESE GREAT VEHICLES."
RUN from Beasley Mazda!!! RUN VERY FAST!!!
Meade
http://www.mazda.com/publicity/release/
All I can find is a mention in an April 8 press release about the MX-Crossport concept vehicle being shown in China -- and that Mazda is considering this vehicle in the future:
"Auto Shanghai 2005 will also host the Asian debut of the Mazda MX-Crossport, an advanced design concept created at Mazda’s main design studio in Hiroshima and revealed at the 2005 North American International Auto Show in January. The MX-Crossport--with its bold K2 Red paint--represents a new direction Mazda is considering as it works to expand its line-up of successful new-generation products around the world. It is a crossover-type vehicle--a very Mazda crossover that combines the strong, sports car styling motif of the company’s flagship RX-8 with the more practical packaging of sport-utility vehicle."
I've read through the recent press releases and I can't find any mention of the Crossport going from concept to reality. Please see if you can; I'd be very interested in reading the official statement!
Meade
But that's exactly what I mean by "ad cars", there is always a catch.
-juice
I was attempting to post a response to your question about how much I like the Mazda3. I've had my 2005 Velocity Red Mazda3s 5-speed for three weeks today. I LOVE it. (And this is coming from the former owner of two 1992 Protege LXs and a 2000 Protege ES and co-owner of a 2002 Protege5.)
If you haven't driven a car with this engine yet, go take a 3s out for a test drive. You'll be smiling all the way back to the dealership -- where you'll have a hard time not starting the paperwork!
Meade
I am merely stating the prices that I have read from Price Guides and Edmunds new vehicle prices(TMV) as well as advertisments I have seen in the paper. Your initial post said a "stripped" MPV LX was $25,000. Which is a much further
than the actual price of $18,750 for a "nonstripped" MPV LX.($6,250 of cry) And yes, most vehicles are sold with options.But, we were discussing the base model prices. You're probably looking at $19,500-$20,500 for most options listed on the LX.
So, if people out there are wanting to compare prices between the MPV and the Mazda 5.. the prices I have given out are more accurate and closely mirror those of Edmunds TMV than those quoted by you and your dealership....which probably will be going out of business if they are selling "stripped" MPV's at $25,000
Meade
"Mazda will be completely redesigning the venerable MPV, with a tentative release date scheduled for the fall of 2006. The new MPV will be somewhat larger than current and past models in order to distinguish it from the likes of the new Mazda 5. Mazda has elected to use the Mazda 6 platform as the basis for this upcoming version of the MPV."
Meade
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I've looked at dealer inventories before as well. Then when you go down to check it out... instead of the 20 vehicles listed as in inventory, they have maybe 8 in stock.
And why you keep quoting MSRP I don't understand.
This is about the time the host steps in and says off topic.
I don't believe the 6 and the Freestar share anything in common. IIRC, the Freestar is a warmed over Windstar.
Not all customers will be as successful in haggling as you are, and not all of them will shop for their vehicle while the particular rebate that is in effect right now as we speak is in effect. Also, just because your dealership is offering some added incentive doesn't mean it's happening all over the U.S. and Canada, and we have many people here on Edmunds who don't live in your town.
Therefore ...
THE ONLY FAIR WAY TO COMPARE PRICES BETWEEN THE MAZDA5 AND THE MPV, WHICH WILL BE FAIR FOR EVERYONE ACROSS THE U.S. WHO MAY BE READING THIS DRIVEL WE'RE POSTING, IS TO QUOTE MSRP.
After all, the Mazda5 will be sold for approximately $1,000 over invoice as well. And I thought your whole beef here was to show how close the two vehicles were in price ... yet all I keep seeing is somebody quoting "$18 to $20K" for the Mazda5. No, if you use the TMV approach, you'll probably wind up paying about $16K for a base Mazda5 and $18K for a loaded one ... which still represents about a $2,000 difference between a loaded Mazda5 and a "stripped" MPV even with the examples you gave.
However, it's impossible right now to quote invoice price on a vehicle that has not arrived on our shores yet. So the only FAIR way to compare the prices of the MPV and the Mazda5 is to quote their MSRPs (minus any rebates), which we know. So we're looking at about $19,500 (depending on options) for a loaded Mazda5 vs. about $21,500 for a "stripped" MPV LX ($23,500 minus $2,000 rebate).
$2,000 difference. No overlap.
Start subtracting dealer incentives and that's great ... for your town. My dealer isn't offering a $17,900 MPV LX right now (even hail-damaged), and this is a global forum.
Meade
MPV GX = $27,595
Mazda 5 GS = $19,995
Which is the prime reason I am thinking the 5 is the right car for me... if the engine can handle the weight with some kind of grace. If I see it doing this ->
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Gotcha!
I live right down the road from Roger Beasley Mazda North (which is a large, high-volume dealership--Beasley owns most of the Mazda dealerships in Austin), and they were selling basic MPVs for $18-19K (and less for 04s and real strippers) well before the hail storm we had a month ago. I know because I'm aiming to buy a car this summer and I've got $16-18K to spend, and I've looked. If I can buy a 200 horsepower base-model MPV for $18K or a tricked out Mazda5 for $18K, which one is a better value? To me, the MPV is.
I personally really dislike the idea of paying at or near MSRP for anything, since these days MSRP is clearly fiction for nearly all auto manufacturers.
All that being said, I can see reasons to purchase a 5 in lieu of an MPV even if they were essentially the same price:
Better mileage.
Better driving dynamics (more entertaining).
Easier to park/garage.
More features (essentially loaded 5 vs. 'stripped' MPV LX).
A 200hp MPV isn't necessarily faster than a 160hp 5.
Remember, bigger isn't always better. Mazda has proved this year in and year out.
You stated originally that Mazda's rebate was $3,250. Edmunds has the rebate at $2,250 and dealer cash for financing thru Mazda at $1,000.I can assure you that these will only go up as the year progresses. End of year rebates last year were $4,000 rebate, $1,000 customer cash for financing thru Mazda, and $500 cash back to recent college graduate. NOW...you would be having some big time overlap. But, I believe as you have stated ...that when the new bigger 2006 MPV comes out there will be about a$1,000- $2,000 difference between a loaded 5 and the base MPV LX.But, for the next year...there will be some overlap as Charlotte
has suggested.
Oh are you a salesman by chance? You keep wanting to take that $2,000 rebate off MSRP. The average sale price (TMV) of the MPV LX is $100 under invoice.So, instead of a $2,000 spread we'd be talking about maybe a $300-$400 spread.
Nope, I'm just a very loyal customer of my dealership in Richmond, VA. I've bought six Mazda vehicles from them in just under 14 years. Lemme tell ya ... Fair Market Value and incentives are one thing; being treated like royalty for being a loyal customer is another. I did absolutely NO haggling for my 2005 Mazda3s wagon three weeks ago, yet went out the door paying $100 over invoice, getting about $500 more for my trade than it was worth, and paying half price for EasyCare's TotalCare 6 year/100,000-mile bumper-to-bumper warranty, and the dealership used a "bank coupon" which lowered my interest rate another point. They also threw in a $90 set of two-colored Mazda "Premium Carpet Floor Mats" (in addition to the cheap-[non-permissible content removed], standard-issue, dryer-lint-covered fruit rollups that came with the car) for free. On top of that, my dealership has a "90-day ding warranty" (not sure if it covers hail damage, lol), free oil changes every 3,000 miles for the first 3 years/36,000 miles, and free tires for as long as I own the car.
I'm happy. And no, I didn't pay MSRP either. It's just too bad that the Mazda3's are selling so well that there are no incentives on them.
Had fun yesterday. Let's debate more often!
Meade
If Mazda does that, then they can do whatever they want with pricing because it won't be a direct competitor with, or even in the same market as, the MPV.
The MPV has already been criticized in the automotive press for being on the small side in the minivan market. I don't think Mazda needs to come out advertising that it has an even smaller minivan right now!
Meade
Anyway, I went in to my local dealership and dropped a deposit on a 5... why not, right?
Hey, wait a minute. ALL Mazda cars are marketed as sporty, and ALL use the Zoom-Zoom theme in their advertising. Even the Mazda3i, which has a much lesser powerplant than the 5 will have, and I won't even begin to compare the 5 with the gasping-for-breath B2300 pickup (I owned one; I know!).
The 5 may not be the fastest thing on earth, but it will handle well and look sporty -- that's more than enough to call it sporty in its advertising. Just watch. It will be an exciting, upbeat ad focusing on sportiness.
Meade
I'm sure you're right, I don't know if that's the most realistic way to market it though. I think they will do something similar to their Japanese advertising for the Premacy, and market it as a "sporty" family vehicle. (see http://www.premacy.mazda.co.jp/asx/cwt_500k.asx)
We all know it'll look sporty, it's what happens when it's full of passengers that concerns me. We'll see. Right or wrong, I want to make sure I'm one of the first to drive it. Believe me, I'm going to load it up with people and see what happens. :shades:
We keep a vehicle until it hits 100k miles. So, we won't be shopping for awhile. We love our MPV, but we really would have considered the Mazda 5(after selling our Buick station wagon) if it had been out last July. This is the first Mazda I have owned...and so far I have been impressed with the quality and style of Mazda vehicles. Truely a Zoom Zoom experience. :shades:
OK, ignore the RX8 for a minute, please.
Ack, let's hope the next MPV is not a Freestar re-badge. The current MPV is already a whole lot better than that.
Keep the side-by-slide, keep the windows that open (an feature Mazda pioneered in the US), and keep the magic 3rd row, just give it a little more leg room and tweak the engine a bit.
We'll see a price increase and that should keep it from overlapping with the 5 in price.
-juice
Also the lightest and carrying the least amount of passenger/cargo weight
Lightest and carrying the least amount of weight - sounds like the Mazda5, doesn't it?
-juice
It's smaller than the megavans and 15-20% lighter....too bad it doesn't translate into 20% better fuel economy. I'd love the diesel with 266 lb/ft of torque and 46 mpg (imperial)hwy.
BTW - we don't have too many imperial highways down here. Will the regular highways work as well?
It should be lighter than competing minivans, at least.
-juice
Way over 200hp and AWD. Edmunds would have to revive the old High Performance Minivan thread :P
Unfortunately, while it's lighter than competing minivans, it's also going to be sporting a much smaller engine.
Looking back at the excitement and high expectations we all had in the beginning, the final disclosure is not what we've been waiting for....
Personally, for a similar engine performance and even better mileage, I will opt for a much comfortable, bigger and more full of options 2-3 years used Highlander ( 4 cyl).
JUST the sleek/sporty look and sliding doors of the M5,crammed in to an M3 passenger volume, are not enough to buy me in.
And yes, I am disappointed that for what is offering on a brand new M5, Mazda treated NA customers like a brainwashed flock of drivers...
Dan
While it's doing the car show rounds, we talk it up, keep the thread busy. Then there is the wait until they arrive in dealers. We'll see more chatter when we can test drive these things.
For now, no news means a slow thread.
-juice
:P
Meade
-juice
All they'll tell us is that the GS is $19,995 CDN. That's nice. What about the GT?