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Comments
The thing is, the Mazda5 COULD probably be classified as a "light truck" if they wish, same as the PT Cruiser and Dodge Magnum...flat load floor if the seats are removed.
-Jaz
CARB sez no diesel CARS. But certain vehicles, they can get away with saying they're not cars. That's how they get around CAFE with the SUVs, as well as the Dodge Magnum and PT Cruiser.
Odysseys with VCM aren't doing significantly better than those without it. That's a disappointment because I think the technology has huge potential.
-juice
Note, those are all over a certain gross vehicle weight which makes them commerical vehicles - that gets around the emissions issue. Now many of them are sold as personal vehicles but for classification for emissions purposes, they are commericial vehicles.
That included my brother's little Ram 50 nee Mitsubishi pickup.
Now my boss has a Surbuban 2500 for his wife. Because the company owns it and it it over a certain GVW, it has commercial plates and it affects how he can park it in his tony suburb. But it is anything but commercial.
-Jaz
My feeling based on working in automotive devlpmnt. is that Diesel expansion in the minivan and SUV segment will come later after 2007, having leader the King of Diesel =VW
Wait, as I wait...and will see
Dan
Also...don't forget the NY auto show starts this weekend. MZ5 is scheduled to be there
I'll check the interior space usage and ask about the mileage and gearing.
-juice
With REAL AMERICAN-SIZED PEOPLE in the seats and standing beside it for some much-needed reference!!!
Meade
This would be the case for having or not 3 seats in the middle.
Would you please check this out @ NY Autoshow ( did not see that @ NAIAS in Detroit).
Thanks in advance!
Dan
I'm about 6', 215 lbs, and I can barely fit in my own Miata, so I'll be looking at the new MX-5 closely.
-juice
Meade
http://www.premacy.mazda.co.jp/premacy_spec.pdf
Comparison
Mazda 5 1490kg = 3278lb (auto)
Mazda 3 1273kg = 2800lb (Sedan auto)
Mazda 3 1296kg = 2851lb (GT auto)
Mazda 6 1402kg = 3084lb (Sedan auto)
Mazda 6 1450kg = 3198lb (Sport auto)
this car is going to be underpower = low mileage!
http://www.premacy.mazda.co.jp/appeal1.html
carzzz: Yes, fuel economy doesn't look good and the NA edition starts at 3333lbs. Rumored EPA numbers are on a previous page along with the tall gearing Mazda has specified for faster acceleration. Hopefully there will be a more economical direct injection or hybrid model down the line.
Seems that Mazda has trouble building both a sporty and a fuel efficient vehicle in the same package. (excluding the Mazda3) With a gallon of gas selling for $2.00 and up, the Mazda MX-Flexa / Mazda5 is sounding too pricey to be a good commuter.
It feels small inside, I got to sit in all 3 rows. Call it a 4+2, the back is for kids. You have to move the seats forward to have foot room, and even then it's tight.
It has theatre seating so the 2nd row is higher than the first. Sliding doors open wide, too.
Squeezed them for a price estimate, they say $17,995 freight included for starters. Not bad for a list price.
The MX-5 impressed me more, though.
-juice
I don't get why access to the rear seats is important if they are not for adults. Tilt the middle row forward and let the kids climb back there - no need for a center aisle.
This vehicle is close, but not there for me.
Take an Accord and make it a wagon. It will still get 26/34 mpg, and it will have great room for 5 and room in the way back for two kids. I think that recipe would sell bunches, IF marketed correctly. It never will be marketed because it would take away far to many SUV sales, and they are more profitable.
Unless this is the biggest flop of all time they will be sold out in less than a month after the intro.
You sure that wasn't in Yen??
Mazda really does enjoy shooting itself in the foot. This could have been a real winner, but the whole RPM/MPG issue is going to hurt bad, and if they aren't even going to make many, why bother?
WOnder if the old 1.8V6 could be resurected, bored out, and jammed inthis baby? Either that, or put the Turbo motor and better gearing in it, and it would be faster and more economical probably.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Don't forget, the US isnt the only place they are going to sell this product. so its not like they are only building 2000 units for worldwide consumption.
Does anyone know what the volume cut off is to avoid alot of government testing??? There is a specific number but I'm not sure what it is.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/cafe/FuelEconUpdates/1997/Index.html#fe10
This only covers fuel economy but afaik all cars sold in the United States have to meet safety and emissions requirements.
But audia8q - don't you think that 2000 units for the entire year is a bit small? I mean how do you really measure those results?
If you're right and 2,000 units are it, I think that's going to equate to a huge marketing blunder. But, I don't expect much from Mazda's marketing people anymore.
perhaps they mean 2000 units until the end of this calender year to see how things go???
I think the much-better-then-expected results at home has them rethinking their allocation strategy resulting in a reduced allocation for NA. They may be manufacturing-limited short-term, and I can understand them allocating mostly to markets where this genre of vehicle is very popular (and probably more critical to compete in with your latest technology ASAP) and temporarily cutting back allocations here where sales of that genre are more "promising" then proven - and where there isn't much direct competition anyway. So why not cut back NA allocation and test the water in NA when it's looking like you can initially sell everything you can make on the world market anyway? I doubt they will hold back when they are satisfied they are meeting demands in their more critical markets and in the meantime they will get some more data on NA demand. The federalization expense is a given that they have to do sometime anyway to release the car here. I think they have done their homework and are confident in selling more then 2K per year.
-Jaz
A young couple with a small or soon to be family who isnt quite ready for a minivan due to cost and image.
Re: the production numbers... I'm going to get out my ouga (sp) board and will you to be wrong. I think 2,000 is a huge mistake if that's what they're doing. I relayed what you had said about 2000 units and was told that someone had their wires crossed b/c the plant in Japan was set to pump out the 1,700 per month for NA. Now... and of course they're closed till Tuesday... I think both could be right. 2,000 for this year (mistake, Mazda!) and push 1,700 per month starting the beginning of the year?
I'll have to get clarification on Tuesday.
The Touring will cost more, of course, I'd guess $19,995 just so they can advertise "under $20k".
-juice
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Perhaps what you don't understand is that the although the vehicle is being sold worldwide, there are specific engineering changes that have to be made for sale in North America including bumper design and headlights. Those typically are unique to this market. Also, money has to be spent on EPA and safety testing in order to be certified in North America.
I believe I once read that certifying a vehicle for sale in North America costs a minimum of $2 million. At a volume of 2,000 units, Mazda is already in the hole $1,000 per vehicle. Further, since it is a sub $20K MSRP vehicle, the manufacturer profit is already pretty low. At that volume, it'll take a long time to consider it a success IMHO. At that volume it won't even justify spending any money on training, advertising, or support!! IMHO, that number must be wrong. Even audia8q says the biggest dealers in the country will only get 5 units. There are probably more than 5 colors!!
I realize the M5 will be a low volume product in North America. But I doubt that Mazda has set it's expectations that low.
-Jaz
It looks to me like they will test the waters and if it goes well they will increase things and we will be off to the races. Spending a couple million on certifications is cheaper than a $40 million dollar launch budget if the car fails.
if it works, watch every carmaker from here to the moon produce this class of car. me too syndrome will kick in..
Remember when everyone thought Ford was nuts to build something called an Explorer back in the early 90s'?? no way will families buy something like that, was the quote from the pres of another major car company...well the rest is history. Ford had some guts back then coming off the huge success of the Taurus...car campanies are a little more timid these days.
You're right - real innovation in the car game is an expensive and risky business. But you have to have the guts, and to be fair, a fat checkbook, to see a payoff - Toyota decided to dive off the deep end with hybrids, and they are going to own the market. They could afford to be wrong, of course, but I don't see the huge risk of a company like Mazda with the M5. Sometimes I think the marketeers live in some kind of parallel universe that barely intersects with the real world...