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Buying Tips - How Do I Get the Best Deal?

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    jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,251
    I'd probably just stick to starting at "clean" trade in value. Most dealerships rarely pay excellent trade in value on cars they buy. To them a car would need to be in mint condition to qualify. Rough may be stretching it a bit.

    Since you don't like going into a dealership to negotiate. I would suggest going to the lot of your choice, look at and maybe test drive a car you are interested in, then get your salesmans card, tell him you'll call him if you want to make an offer, and then proceed from there. A lot of salesmen don't take you seriously (good price) until you step on their lot This way you can phone or email your negotiations, and they know you mean business.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
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    jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,251
    Create an advanced search on ebay and check Completed Listings, then see what they sold for

    Thanks. That's a good idea.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,179
    Ebay had a scam artist using multiple accounts selling software. He didn't deliver.

    They made good. I also had filed a refund request with my credit card company. When I talked to the Ebay person, he said that was fine and they would initiate the refund.

    I also bought printer ink and had one where the carton had been opened and a used cartridge placed inside. The Ebay arena attracts all kinds of scam artists. I always pay via credit card and I am ready to file for a refund for any product not good. (The seller of the ink may not have known the cartridge had been switched. He refunded as soon as he received the return.)

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,762
    "...stick to starting at "clean" trade in value..."

    I have to admit it never occurred to me to use trade-in value as a starting point when you negoiate---you learn something new every day. That makes sense though, after all, trade in is what the dealer pays for a car so it must be somewhere near his true cost.

    I wonder how this relates to the "auction" value of a used car. Many people who try to trade are told that the dealer can only offer auction value for their car as this is what they could by a similar car for at the auction. How close would you guess that Edmunds TMV comes to the auction value with their trade-in figures?

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

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    plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Every dealer in Los Angeles(as an example, since I live there) will only give you auction price for trade-in unless it's a special vehicle that they feel that they must have. It's roughly 20% lower than high trade-in.

    In short, they are butt-heads and will gouge you for every penny that they can. You almost always make more money by selling the car yourself
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    oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,762
    "...It's roughly 20% lower than high trade-in..."

    20% is a lot. Who's high trade-in are you basing that estimate on, Edmunds, KBB, NADA? There is a wide difference between them in valuations. Edmunds typically runs lower because their figures are supose to be based on "actual" prices paid while KBB bases their values on "asking" prices. I've seen prices differ by $1000 or more.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

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    plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    edited October 2010
    They use NADA for trade-in minus 15-20% as a rule. As an example, my dad's 1996 mint condition Park Avenue is soon to be sold as he's getting a new CTS. The dealer offered him $1650, despite the car being worth $3K "private party" value (check of auto ads in our state has a 2-4K range with 3K being average)

    And of course, they use KBB for retail pricing, which is 10-20% higher than it should be. They would re-sell his car to a potential buyer for 5K and haggle down to 4K. Net profit for them is roughly 2x what they paid for it.

    It's one giant racket and the best way to deal with it is to just avoid every buying or selling a used car at a dealership.
    (new is fine, of course - that's what they are there for)
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    jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,251
    It's one giant racket and the best way to deal with it is to just avoid every buying or selling a used car at a dealership.

    Much better to sell your car private party than to trade to dealership. But, I think a buyer would get a better price by purchasing from a dealership, rather than a private party seller. Using your example, a dealership pays $1650 for the Park Avenue. Somebody comes in and offers $2,650... sold. Buyer saves $350 that a private party sale would have gotten. I think just about any car could be bought, from a dealership, for between the price of trade-in value and private party sale value.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
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    qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,011
    Heck, I think you are both lucky. Back when I was much younger, we were happy just to have them tow it away for free. I wouldn't be surprised if NJ yards now charge you to "dispose of your vehicle."

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

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    Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A reporter is interested in consumers who have used Edmunds.com's True Market Value Predicted Price Trends If you have an opinion on the tool, please email pr@edmunds.com no later than Friday, October 29, 2010 with your daytime contact information and a few words about your experience.
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    plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    You're wrong, though. The dealership will NOT sell the car for less than $3K in this case(low private party value), even if they have to sit on for a month. So much of what people believe about buying cars is based upon misinformation or simply wishful thinking that dealerships have seeped and fed into the general public's minds over the last hundred years or so.

    No dealership will accept less than 75% of what they are asking that I know of unless it's a very seedy dealership and the vehicle has issues that need fixing.

    They exist to make a profit at your expense if possible. The vehicles that they sell are in no way better than what you can find on your own used, provided that you know what you want. (window-shopping for a new car is something they invented). All they offer is convenience for the people who are too busy and/or too lazy to do things by themselves. Now, this used to be a major problem ten or twenty years ago, but with everything online now, you can find any and just an\bout EVERY used vehicle that you desire in minutes. And reach thousands of potential buyers in minutes as well.

    In my case, I recently needed a vehicle to get around in. Now, here's a challenge for you - try to find a dealer who will sell you a 99 Crown Vic that is one owner, clean, under 150K miles, and not used for any commercial fleet, rental, or police service in its life. For under $2500. The least expensive I could find was a bit over $4K. Now, if you want to give the dealership the cost of an entire new transmission in profit just to feel "safe", well, enjoy yourself.
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    jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,251
    In my case, I recently needed a vehicle to get around in. Now, here's a challenge for you - try to find a dealer who will sell you a 99 Crown Vic that is one owner, clean, under 150K miles, and not used for any commercial fleet, rental, or police service in its life. For under $2500. The least expensive I could find was a bit over $4K

    I could find that kind of car all day for under $2,500. There's a big difference in asking price ($4,000) and getting price... especially on high mileage older cars which are traded into dealerships. Mark-up on these 10 year old plus cars is anywhere from 50-150%. Always a risk of a transmission failing on cars that old no matter where they are bought.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
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    jwilliams2jwilliams2 Member Posts: 910
    edited October 2010
    No dealership will accept less than 75% of what they are asking ...

    Most dealers don't care about the percentage....they operate with dollars. A deal either makes sense to them or not. And they are all different.
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    plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Sure you could find cars for that price all day long. That are beat up, a disaster inside, were in a fleet(less than 10% of these cars were sold to individuals when new). You say that you ca, but unless you are a dealer or have access to auto auctions, you simply won't find anything from a dealer that's clean, smogged, registered, and ready to go for that price.

    I know. I searched dealers for two whole weeks and came up with stuff ranging form unsafe at 30mph to a bomb went off inside to a transmission that was practically in pieces. That was, IF I could find one with less than 300K on it.

    Then I looked private-party and the results were far different. I was looking for a full size car that you could fit 6 in (versus a SUV or minivan). Plus I got paperwork and a look at the person's life(don't want a car from a crack addict, after all)

    You're always better off selling it yourself unless you physically can't, that is.
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    bthesselbthessel Member Posts: 13
    Has anyone tried carwoo.com? it looks interesting and as I am getting ready to buy a new truck I was thinking of trying it. I have yet to find any real reviews of the site online from someone that actually has used it.
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    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited November 2010
    The "books" are simply used as guides.

    If a "book" says a car is worth 5000.00 and they are going through the auction en masse for 3500.00, guess what's it's worth to a dealer?

    And, often, such as in the case of that 15 year old Buick Park Avenue someone mentioned, it's a trade that the dealer really doesn't want. He knows these cars attract few buyers at ANY price. He also knows that unknown(or known) problems are likely to surface during the Used Car Inspection.

    Lastly, there is nothing wrong or evil about a merchant wanting to make a (gasp) profit. A car dealership is no different than any other retail business in that regard.
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    oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,762
    "...that 15 year old Buick Park Avenue...He knows these cars attract few buyers..."

    That's exactly why I seek out cars like that. The price is lower because of the perception that these are "boring" or "old man's " cars. The reality is that some old man WAS probably driving it so it's likely to be lower milage and not beat up.

    If I want reliable cheap transportation give me one of those unsalable cars every time. If I want to go to the track I'll buy my hot rods new and un-beat up.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

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    5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    "That's exactly why I seek out cars like that."

    Not only that, you can make them the way you want them.

    "We have an 03 Avalon with 50k on it. The suspension always had a vague feeling, although it had a great ride. We tried out a BMW 530 & 545 at the Susan Komen BMW Test Drive. There was an intersection where you were going down hill into the intersection. When turning right onto a 4 lane street, the BMW would turn tightly into the right, or outside lane with no effort. Same corner, same speed, with the Avalon and I would end up in the inner, or left, lane. Never liking this characteristic of the Avalon, I replaced the front sway bar bushings with Energy performance bushings - about $20 if you do it yourself. (Make sure both wheels are on the same plane. If you jack up one side, you will pre-load things) Replacing the front bushings only made a very noticeable difference. (I had trouble getting the rear bushings) Not slap you upside the head difference, but very noticeable. Next, we replaced the stock struts with KYB GR2's. Another big improvement. My wife loves it. My rear bushings should be in as I write this and I will be anxious to get them on before we leave for Arizona with a full load. I had to run 40 PSI in the tires on this trip before, to keep it firm enough to be driveable. Anyway, we were near my test intersection the other day, and I just had to try it again. It stayed in the right lane with no problem. What an improvement. Then, my wife picked up some tapes from a friend. There is a narrow back road there that drops rapidly down and across an old bridge between 2 hills. The handling was very vague here in stock form. As she said, "it flops all over". Well, she came home all excited. She went across the bridge and the suspension was taut with excellent control. It really surprised her as she was not thinking about it, but the difference just shocked her. Now, women not usually paying much attention to things like this, makes for a very telling story. She is probably more attuned than most though. Some gals are, but it still confirms what AB and I experienced. I highly recommend this upgrade unless you still insist on the old American float in place of a car that handles. I would recommend the bushing upgrade to anyone. You just can't beat the bang for the buck. I finally found the rear set through NAPA and Autozone. NAPA wanted a $5 special order fee plus $6 shipping. Autozone was slightly higher on the part, but no extra charges. I bought there. "

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.bebc200!keywords=allin%3Amsgtext%2- 0limit%3AToyota%3AAvalon%2055396%20gr2&count=20
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    jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,251
    How much of a difference in riding comfort (float) did you notice?
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
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    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited November 2010
    Actually that Buick is a great example of a lot of car for the money.

    That 3800 engine is one of the best engines ever built.
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    5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    I first installed Energy performance front sway bar bushings and the quickness in steering changes was immediately noticed. My wife drove across an older bridge at the bottom of a hill. The car would rebount to one side with lack of control. After the bushing install, she came home Wow, what a difference. Straight as an arrow. I believe the firmer bushings forced the both struts to work together, so even worn struts worked better. If you read the posts, you will see the before and after comparison to a new BMW 5 series. What a difference. I still haven't installed the rear bushings.
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    speggeaterspeggeater Member Posts: 1
    Hi

    I'm new to car buying and I received a written quote by email on Christmas Eve for a Honda Civic 2011. It was the OTD price. Does the dealer have to honor the quote? I'm curious because I'm trying to contact this dealer for 2 days to schedule a test drive by email but I'm not getting any replies. I'm afraid that if I go in for this quote, the dealer won't honor it or will try to increase the price. Please let me know. Thanks.
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    jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,251
    edited December 2010
    Do they have to honor the quote? If they are an honest dealership they will.

    Take your written quote into the dealership and ask for a testdrive. Hopefully you've researched and you are confident they are giving you a good price. If they don't honor the quote I'd take my business elsewhere.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
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    Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,150
    I wish I could be more optimistic, but I've seen a huge number of complaints from consumers recently about "bait & switch" pricing. Get a great quote, or think you've agreed on a number, then somewhere along the line the dealership discovers their "mistake"

    Oh, we thought you wanted a manual -that's what this quote is for. It'll cost more if you want an automatic.

    Oh, when we gave you that price, we assumed you qualified for every rebate possible. You don't. Sorry. New price.

    Oh, that price was before the mandatory VIN etching and fabric and rust protection package that comes on all of our vehicles. New price.

    They always admit it is their "mistake," but I've seen LOTS of last-minute pricing "errors" lately.

    Hopefully this quote is genuine, and the dealership fully intends to follow through with the deal they quoted, but don't be stunned if they don't, and be prepared to walk if they do. I've seen too many of these stories lately, to the point where I believe it's become a more pervasive trick, or there are just loads of incompetent salespeople/managers who make more "mistakes" than the average worker.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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    jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,251
    edited December 2010
    The fact the price given was an OTD quote, would suggest it unlikely the OP would be charged more for VIN etching or fabric protection.

    Also that the dealership hasn't replied back, in two days, when the OP wants to come in for a test drive is a bad sign. I also thought it odd the dealeship would give an OTD number in the first place. Usually if they're playing games, it's give a low price via email, then jack up the price with mop n glow and other add ons once you get there.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
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    elrowehoelroweho Member Posts: 1
    I'm wondering if anyone has experienced the same "story" I've been hearing in regards to Used Car sales. I've been trying to find a good deal on a less that 140k mile Camry or Accord and have found some with asking prices under $5000. I've done due diligence and check CARFAX and in one case even took the car to my mechanic which he gave a few write ups on some normal wear and tear items that still need to be done. When it comes down to negotiating price, 3 of the used car dealers won't budge or will budge very little on their asking price. Their "story" is that now that we are going into tax refund time, they are satisfied to hold firm on their asking price since people will get their tax refund and will be willing to pay asking price for these "cheaper" cars. I find it a bit dubious that this is a preferred technique especially since some of these cars I've been looking at have been on their lots for months. Just one example - a 96 Camry 115 k miles will need brakes in 5000 miles needs alignment rotation tranny flush and may be a engine mount to suppress an annoying vibration but otherwise in good shape Asking $ 4500 TMV at Edmunds $3400 after showing the guy the mechanics report he said he would only knock off $250 and justified it with the tax refund story. Can anyone confirm or dispel this price hiking theory?
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    jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,251
    edited January 2011
    Due to the economy people have been buying fewer new cars, and more used. I have heard demand for used cars, and therfore prices, is up. Tax refunds? I would think most dealerships would try hard to sell a car under any circumstances. Try another dealership.

    A dealership can say whatever they want in terms of why they are charging what they are charging, it may or may not be true. I'd pay what I was comfortable with.

    There are alternatives just as good as a Toyota, for far less money... Buick and Hyundai come to mind.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
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    plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    case in point - you can get a nice Buick LeSabre a couple of years old (2005, last year made) for just about your budget. Any Accord or Camry at the same price range will be several years older or about 2K more expensive.

    http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=290421007
    This is a typical example. Hyundai, Ford, and other brands also depreciate fairly quickly despite building fairly decent vehicles.

    And the economy is so awful right now that ANY money is welcome. They are gritting their teeth and *hoping* that their payday comes walking in, because while used sales are up a little bit, it's still a total net loss for combined sales. I suggest you find a private party and haggle at just above low trade-in. The dealer will have already offered them auction pricing for it (ie - 20-30% under lowest blue book trade-in unless it's an actual rare car), so they'll bite at a low but decent offer.

    When you're on a tight budget, you have to ask yourself "what's the most reliable car that also has the worst image and depreciation at the same time?" Cars lie a Buick, a Crown Vic, and similar are in that list. They're well made and nobody really loves them, but they ARE inexpensive to operate and purchase.

    Speaking of that car, i'm driving a 2000 Crown Vic for a few months this winter as in interim vehicle until I can get something better, but it really does drive well. I paid $2400 for it with 140K on it(and not owned by a fleet/commercial/police department). At the rate at which it sucks down gas, I'd still have to drive it for three years to equal the price on a similar age Honda or Toyota ($4-5K) (it averages 4-5mpg worse than a V6 - but quite a bit better than a typical SUV)

    It drives so well, in fact, that I'm tempted to buy a new one next fall for about $25K and keep it for 15 years/until it dies - which might be a LONG time, since even at 11 years and 140K, the *only* thing that doesn't work like new is the cruise control. Even the little electronic compass in the rear view mirror, the auto-on headlights, and the electronic climate control system all work. I toss it into traffic at 70mph and it's awesome how effortlessly it eats up highway miles. As long as it's never been a taxi or a police vehicle, it's so over-engineered that it's essentially bulletproof. (the trick of course is finding one of the 5-10% that were sold to individuals)

    http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=290553528
    This is a clone of my vehicle, essentially. I just haggled on the original $2800 price and got the seller down to $2400 ;) I suspect this seller would likely jump at $2500-2600.

    Yes, there are alternatives to a ten year old Toyota or Honda.
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    Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,150
    I wouldn't be surprised if the reason was at least partially true. I've seen a few TV ads lately, one today, by lower-end (probably BHPH) dealerships advertising, using a lot of words like "bring in your tax refund and let's make a deal."

    Perhaps there are quite a few people who badly need a car, and are low on funds, and they wait til they get their refund to buy what they can, and perhaps those people are less likely to negotiate - they just need a car NOW.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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    jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,251
    Yeah, I was thinking about that. Too bad someone has to wait for their tax refund to afford to buy a car. Hopefully staying away from the BHPH, and their high interest rates, and buying a decent private party car for around 2 grand, or something close to that from dealership cars going to auction.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
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    5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    "Can anyone confirm or dispel this price hiking theory?"

    Really doesn't matter. You offer what you feel it's worth and walk away. He stops you or he doesn't. Or, you can turn around and accept his counter, if he has one. But, the primary thing to make him reconsider is the view of your back as you walk away. You can always come back. He doesn't know if you will. It's just a mind game to see who has the strongest will. Also, he may have too much into the car to come down more. Then find another car.
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    stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,712
    the saddest thing is, the people with the least money often seem to pay the most for what they get. Largely because they have limited options, and get gouged at some of these lots. Payment buying is a great way to get screwed on a deal.

    meanwhile, people that actually have money end up negotiating and getting better prices.

    of course, the difference might be why the poor people got that way in the first place!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

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    5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    "Can anyone confirm or dispel this price hiking theory?"

    Really doesn't matter. You offer what you feel it's worth and walk away. He stops you or he doesn't. Or, you can turn around and accept his counter, if he has one. But, the primary thing to make him reconsider is the view of your back as you walk away. You can always come back. He doesn't know if you will. It's just a mind game to see who has the strongest will. Also, he may have too much into the car to come down more. Then find another car.
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    5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    "case in point - you can get a nice Buick LeSabre a couple of years old (2005, last year made) for just about your budget"

    Excellent strategy. My buddy had a limo service. Bought Town Cars like this and ran them to 350-400k with no major engine problems. Great work horses. I would have to do a suspension and sway bar bushing to be able to stand to drive them though, but that's just me. I like sporty. Then again, suspensions have come a long way. If it doesn't sway, lean and float..............
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    5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    Exactly. There is usually a reason why people are where they are in life unless they are just passing through due to uncontrollable circumstances.
    A good salesperson can smell em a mile away. They see them as prey.
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    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,348
    Too bad someone has to wait for their tax refund to afford to buy a car.

    It can worse than that. Some people rely on tax refunds for the basics of life. I have done peoples taxes when they didn't get what they expected and started fretting because now they had no way to pay the rent.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

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    plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    The math is even more fun when you break it down:

    24MPG@12K a year = 500 gallons
    19MPG@12K a year = 632 gallons
    132 Gallon difference X 3.65 (gas prices locally) = 481.80.
    Let's just call it $500 more in fuel a year to operate.

    $5000 for a 2001 Accord vs $3000 for a 2001 Crown Vic. That means that it will take you four *years* to use enough gas to break even on cost. Unless you plan on keeping the car for a long time, it's best to always forget MPG and get the lowest priced vehicle that you can.

    Since almost all people who are looking for a budget vehicle like this don't do that and will get a new vehicle every 3-4 years, it's a smart strategy. Actually running costs on a Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Towns Car are lower than most any other vehicle. Insurance is lower. Parts cost less. And it's big and safe. You kind of get spoiled - I just drove my parents to the airport and tossed everything in the trunk without even organizing it. Going down the road through a very rough section (I-5 through downtown Los Angeles) that normally makes your teeth chatter (the asphalt over the concrete is so worn that they are a full inch lower in the middle - that familiar wave patterned pavement) was only mildly annoying. Lots of noise but a smooth ride.

    My favorite Crown Vic joke is that it can fit six people. And still have nobody inside ;) That trunk is immense. Just don't get a cop car color is all and you'll be fine. The dark blue with chrome is very attractive.
    http://www.automedia.com/New_Cars/mercury_grand-marquis_2009_photos_Sedan_Exteri- or_1-Front-Left-Blue.jpg

    I consistently recommend it to people on a tight budget, along with older Buicks/Pontiacs and the like.
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    oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,762
    "...this price hiking theory..."

    Tell the salesman to add some bread to that baloney and he will have himself a sandwich. Then walk out and let him eat it. :mad:

    I agree with the other posters. Forget Hondas and Toyotas. The marginally better quality is not worth the extra money and stupid games you have to play.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

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    newlungsnewlungs Member Posts: 3
    I have noticed that I have many different car buying services at my disposal. Automobile clubs, wholesale clubs, employee benefit packages, I would even consider do it yourself internet negotiations in this category for me. Sounds like all that I have access to just put you in touch with a specific sales person that is supposed to give the best no haggle deal available.

    In the past we have just walked onto a lot with the price we want to pay and been willing to walk away. I am wondering if I would get a better deal or have less of a hassle contacting the dealership through one of these car buying services.

    Anyone have any good or bad experiences purchasing a car this way? Thanks for the input.
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    gijane36gijane36 Member Posts: 3
    Hi all. Can someone please explain to me if this scenario is typical or what's actually going on:

    I purchased a new car 11 days ago. Today, the salesman send me an email asking me to go back to the dealership tomorrow (Saturday) because the "bank" needs me to sign some alleged credit app.

    Am I being overly suspicious in thinking the deal somehow mysteriously "fell thru" and now they're going to need a co-signer?

    Thanks in advance for your response :confuse:
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    5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    Same bank you agreed to? Same interest rate? Make sure its apples to apples. Check all details and small print and compare it to what you signed. If it's additional paperwork, read every word even if you have to take it home. If you were approved and you have something signed to that effect by you and dealer, you should be good.
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    plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    edited March 2011
    How did you pay for it? If it's through your bank, then you can ignore the dealer's games entirely. You bought it, you both signed it, and as long as the check cleared the bank, you're done.

    This is also why you *always* deal with your own credit union or bank, because it's out of the dealer's hands at this point.

    This is an old sleazy tactic to re-negotiate the terms to something that's more favorable to them(or the sales person is getting reamed by his boss). In most states, there is no cooling-off period, and certainly not after 11 days. If they agreed to it and you made the payments, then it's up to them to deal with the bank if it's actually (on the rare chance that it is, given that they ran your credit before approving the loan) having an issue with it.

    http://www.ucan.org/blog/gasoline_autos/automobiles/avoid_auto_fraud_when_seller- - - s_can_cancel_a_car_dealership_financed_contract

    Note the 10 days. They have the option on the 10th day to either cancel it entirely and that's it. If it was the 11th day after-wards (date on the sales contract to the message on the machine, obviously) OR if they want to re-negotiate (ie - not flat out cancel it), you can simply tell them that the deal's done and they have to deal with it. After ten days they cannot cancel it in most states and are stuck with it. Sucks to be that salesperson or manager, but that's how it is.

    That said, if it IS within the 10 day contract, they have to rewind and un-do EVERYTHING. You deposit, your trade-in, and so on - all back to you and take the car back. They cannot force you to sign anything and in fact you should just simply walk away because they'll never give you a proper rate at this point. Note - if they cannot or will not comply with any of the terms in that article I linked to or are playing games, they are in violation of the agreement and you have two options - sue them to enforce it(they will lose and know it) or sue them to recover damages (they also will lose and know it). Often a letter from your lawyer is enough to get the bums to comply.

    Some shady dealers do this simply to force the buyer to be caught between "I want my new(er) car" and their inflated "real" terms. Don't fall for it.

    http://www.leasetips.com/callbackscam.htm
    It's a scam, pure and simple. If more than 10 days has passed between the sale and the call you received from them, inform them that the terms are already final and if they have an issue, please contact your lawyer.

    Good luck in any case and tell us how it turns out.
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    gijane36gijane36 Member Posts: 3
    Thanks so much for the replies! I had to use the dealer's bank because I couldn't obtain financing through my credit union. When I spoke to the salesman today, he said that I had to sign the app since I had done it online. THat was puzzling, because I never did anything online. I signed the app in the dealership's office when I initially went there. Because I don't have any way of knowing if it is truly some oversight on their part or some shady tactic, I am purposely waiting to go back on Monday.

    I will share the outcome :)

    Thanks again!
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    plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    They plainly want you to re-sign the (new) application again and back-date it to the original(or sign it with today's date, in which case they get a free half month of payments from you). This is fraud on their part. Their whole plan is to get you back in the dealership in any case, then try to get you to agree to terms that are "only a few dollars more a month". This is the classic "I bet we can get another $500 out of that person" scenario that they mentioned on that second link/site.

    #1 DO NOT DRIVE THE NEW CAR THERE. Drive something else or get a big friend to come along with you. Some dealerships have been known to tow or hold your car hostage. If the friend is a lawyer by some chance of luck, so much the better. This is exactly the time to pull out that 200lb hammer you've been saving for such a time as this and squash them like the bugs that they are.

    "Hey, Jim - I'll buy you dinner... Want to go have some fun with these cockroaches?" :P

    #2 - do not sign *anything* if you already signed the original contract in person. If they claim that they don't have the application/you never signed it, then inform them that you don't have to make any payments until they can "find it" and verify how much you should pay each month, because you can't remember right now. (you always have the right to review or view any contract you signed and the other party has to keep it on file to prove their claim against you. Trust me, it's as safe as a property deed. ;)

    Myself, I'd be "There's a signature there and there and, oh look - one there as well."(an auto sales form has to be "all in one document" according to Federal law, so they tend to be 8-12+ pages long and require a dozen or more signatures or initials)

    If they actually cannot obtain financing through "their bank" (highly unlikely) and more than 10 days passed since you signed the paperwork and when they notified you of the problem (not when you finally get back to the dealership), then it's their deal. If the scenario was reversed, they would show no pity whatsoever for any contract that you had signed.

    I'm not a lawyer, but this is easy to look up online and appears to be Federal law/applies to the entire U.S.
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    gijane36gijane36 Member Posts: 3
    I sent an email to the salesman, the finance manager AND the president/owner of the dealership stating that I was 100% positive I signed a credit app and found it odd they would have been able to secure financing without one. I said if they lost the app, it was on their hands and I was not signing any additional documents.

    I also informed them that I had contacted the lending institution to confirm whether the loan was approved and confirm if they needed further documentation.

    Within two hours, I received a phone call from the pres/owner. He went and pulled my "deal" and surprise, surprise found my signed credit app and the deal was indeed 100% approved. He apologized profusely and said he didn't understand why the salesman would think he needed me to sign the app and that he must have been confused.

    Lesson learned: I will never, ever use dealer financing again!

    I am indebted for your invaluable info. Many thanks!
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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,179
    edited March 2011
    >He apologized profusely and said he didn't understand why the salesman would think he needed me to sign the app and that he must have been confused.

    You did well at getting a response with your methods. Congratulations.

    If he's at the top, he knows how these things are done: he's feigning lack of knowledge and I don't believe him.

    I think I would have let the owner know I'd been told that unscrupulous salespeople/agencies try to trick buyers into resigning papers that give the dealership extra profits. And that I intend to let everyone one I know and I work with what happened at his dealership, in my humble suspicions. I'd remind him the best kind of advertising is word-of-mouth and that it's very hard to counter with commercial advertising.

    If your local TV or newspapers have consumer advocate reporters who research these kinds of things and put them on air or in print to save others from vultures, I'd contact them. They can leave your name out but it might save others.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    But don't you have copies of all paperwork including everything that you signed?
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    verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,286
    Glad things turned out well.

    And thank you for coming back and letting us know the resolution to your question. As all the regular posters would agree, it's frustrating that we don't get to find out what happened.
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    zyaaaaazyaaaaa Member Posts: 36
    There's a lot to cover in most car transactions. Assume a customer walks into a dealership with a trade-in and looking to buy a car - in which order do you negotiate to be the most effective use of time and money?

    Trade-In Value
    Purchase Price
    Finance (Lease or Loan, if not pre-approved)

    It would seem logical but it gets confusing since they all hinge on one another. For example you could get the trade and price worked out and get to finance and find out they can't meet your needs. Or you could find the perfect deal but can't get traction on the trade-in. How do you handle it?
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    qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,011
    I work the trade and purchase together since, yes, they do hinge on each other.

    As for financing, get pre-approved first and know your rate walking in and it can wait till last since it doesn't matter much. They may be able to match or beat it.

    My negotiations are pretty fluid. I start with the car I'm buying, but it quickly evolves into a "well, if you give me $x for my car, then I have no problem paying $x for your car." The only time financing comes into play earlier rather than later is if we are REAL close on price. If, for example, we are still $300 apart, I'll throw out "well, I'm getting 4.5% from my CU, so if you can do better, it might get us where I want to be."

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

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