Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Twice I've had all my homework done and in front of me (which I always do) and the salesman just said, "OK, I see you've been working on this; here's the price I can sell it at." Both times it was close enough to what I was looking for to say "fine"a and sign away.
The other is represented by tbaxxon who says take a lot of the salesman's time so he has a vested interest in closing the deal.
What say you salesmen? Do you blow off the Bobst shoppers and only get serious with people who keep at it for hours?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
On the training, sales people today are trained to treat people right, with respect, and to show the benefits of our product. Then we are trained to get offers from you the customer. With out your offer we don't have anything to work with. If we can do your offer than we will have a deal. If we can't you can move on and see if someone else will agree to your terms. Pretty simple. Are we in business to make money yes. But so isn't everyone else in the world. Your ideas on how to get the best deal sound they work for you which is all that matters for your deals. I'm just suggesting that it doesn't have to be a drawn out miserable experience. The rules are changing for dealerships. Ther are a lot compliance laws to protect consumers.( That is one reason for doc fees. ) I guess what I am sugesting is for me I would rather take a deal as fast as I can and move on to the next one. Doesn't matter if it is a small deal or a home run.
If you don't mind paying a little bit extra (IMO) for a quick and easy deal, and don't care to haggle, then the method gg spelled out is the way to go.
If the car has to be traded from another dealer - you can sign a contract, or a deposit with a credit application usually will do.
-Moo
As far as the new car selling price, I use the invoice # and what rebates I am entitled to plus "the Prices Paid Forum! I also ask the Host of the Rebates and Incentives Forum for any input.
As I have stated previously in this or some other forum,when the dealer wants that "FAMOUS $499.00 OR $599.00 FLORIDA" added dealer fee, That is ALWAYS when I balk and say "FINE" but then just add $499.00 or $599.00 to my trade-in. If they don't...then I walk and so far this has always been successful as the minute I get up to walk,they agree. (Let's be honest, they are probably still making a hefty profit on my 3 yr. old low mileage trade-in.
At the most, I spend about 45 minutes to an hour at the longest with this method. I like the Bobst method, but with a trade-in, there can be too much of a difference with trade-in, tax purpose deduction, etc. to offer an OTD price.
I usually have a good idea of what the difference between my trade-in and the sellin price should be...and...if it's in my ballpark figure... it's a DEAL!!!
Plus, I always buy local if at all possible.
But I will say he does have some good ideas , I agree with the time investment idea, that works both ways, I disagree with the keeping the rebate idea. Why walk out owing $25K when it could be $22K?
My point is if they were all getting sold at those low prices dealerships wouldn't be able to survive. :sick:
When people like this enter my dealership wearing a chip on their shoulder, I dump 'em. I don't have the energy to waste on people like that. I hand 'em off to a greenpea who needs to learn the ropes. Do I miss a sale sometimes? Yup, do I care? Nope. I can find another person who can talk to me like a human being and probably doesn't look at capitalism as the worst thing ever.
-Moo
Your method is perfect. It may not be a profitable one for the dealer but hey it is a deal and everyone moves on.
Private Pyle? What is your major malfunction!
-Moo
When you go to a dealership and you the person you are dealing with makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. LEAVE! There are plenty of dealerships out there. With so much competition dealers need customers more than customers need dealers.
WE were talking earlier about being "chumy". That is not a bad thing. Would you rather be with someone who was boring and you couldn't stand? all the info is here on the web you guys have it all. There are no secrets. Even after having all the information people still believe there is a better deal. Mr. Jones got a better deal than I did. People actually lie. They lie about their age, weight, how much they make, and how much they paid for their house ( that one is ussually what the house got appraised for not what they paid ) and how much they bought there car for.
I guess what I am trying to say is that it is not really that hard to buy a car today. Thats it I'm done ranting.
When I was in sales I used to get a kick out of those who tried the use up their time trick. Usually all they were doing was giving me a chance to learn about them and giving them a chance to make a mistake. I tell you these guys while they think they got the best deals usually didn't.
Walking in and making an "offer" will not get it done 9 of 10 times. Its not that simple. PURPOSELY.
Works for me most of the time and I do get great prices.
Anyway just ask Bobst if he is still around.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Another way is to make your offer and then walk out if they do not accept it within ten minutes. It usually takes them about one minute to decide to accept your offer or not.
Of course, sitting in a nice showroom eating donuts for 3.5 hours is not a bad way to spend an afternoon either. Maybe I will try it your way next time.
one might be trying to get to the last 100-200 to be had, or someone might just love sitting around and being tested. me? no, my time and patience is worth more than that. plus i'm gonna save a bundle by not financing the car for very long. how i optimize the problem is gonna be different that others i'm sure.
i want a good deal, but optimal is in the eyes of the beholder.
the last time i purchased a vehicle, it took me 15 minutes to get to yes, maybe 45 min in the F+I (he was trying to save me money), plus my kids spilled soda all over his paperwork, and my wife and i felt the guy just needed someone to talk to.
Are you kidding? The WORST advice would be from a seller of cars They have a VESTED interest. They only care to squeeze every penny out of you they can get....with a smile no less. They do it with confusion. BIG GREEN MARKERS on 4 square sheets, None of that is unique to one dealership because it WORKS for them. Not the buyer. What the correct thing is for the consumer is not for the dealer. You want your money they want your money...lets be friends? LOL
I learned from BUYING, getting ripped and cajoled, shamed and more into buying. You learn a lot about pricing cars when you do research. You learn a lot more about the processes and "tricks" by reading and getting burned.
Separate the trade completely from the price pf the car. No dealer wants to do that. In fact most dealers will REQUIRE you pick a car before they will even appraise the trade if you let them know you have one. Why?
I'll tell you why. They want to blend the deal because they don't know if it's paid off or not or how good or bad your credit is, etc They may need to create some "funny numbers" to get the deal done with the bank. I don't believe in over allowing or rolling over equity. Those who do that freely are destined to work until they are 80.Besides the look on the sales manager's face when you have finally accepted the price and are ready to go to F&I and then you ask for an appraisal is priceless.
I think you know I know an awful lot about the process and thats why you are trying to discredit me. I will accept the TROLL moniker if one person gains insight through my experiences and opinion. Sorry it's not dealer friendly.It shouldn't be.
Until dealers stop using Screamer ads on radio and in print that are extremely misleading they cannot be trusted.The culture of that dealership is represented by their advertising in EVERY case. I won't buy a car at any dealership that uses those ads. I WILL play in that sandbox though to find out what I can buy the car for at a dealer that does not use misleading ads and bait and switch techniques.
These people are not your friends. They can be great people sitting next to you at Happy Hour but not behind a desk in the cramped little cubicle or worse on the sales floor on a student desk.
And so do buyers; it's THEIR money! That's why smart shoppers go prepared.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Perhaps if you presented your case in a little bit different light, I would have a little bit more respect for you. You continue to call us liars and cheats. ALL of us. Isn't that a little bit of sweeping generalization?
I don't think all of my customers are going to be like you, so why should you think that all your salespeople are going to be liars, cheats and thieves?
We're all human beings looking to provide for our family. The customer wants to save money. Anything else more dramatic on top of it is just contentious and mean. Relax. You are contributing to the problem, not helping.
-Moo
Car salesmen EARNED their coveted reputation. It did not just appear. Nor has it disappeared.Regular People STILL hate to go into a dealership. They still get whacked on their trades and fleeced on their leases. Perhaps those who visit sites like these are more educated when they arrive. But the real money is made using deceptive advertising practices and underhanded tactics. Nothing's changed.
buying a car is warfare and should be taken as such,
Believe me I am just as charming as the sales guy when I begin the dance. Maybe not so much after a couple hours.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Unfortunately, they were devalued by the manner of their presentation.
That is what I am addressing.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
bobst...sounds like you had a nice trip. Did your ancestors come over on the Mayflower?????
Back to buying tips....if I'm sitting at the desk for more than 5-10 minutes while the dealership mulls over my offer, I assume their answer is "no" and they're putting together a counter offer. I don't want a counter offer, because it's going to be higher than my offer, every time.
If the dealership wants to keep me in the chair? That's where my feet come into play.
As a side note, I tell the salesperson up front that my offer is the one and only offer I'll be making. It's up to them to decide whether they want to play the "bump" game at that point.
Granted, it's so ingrained at some dealerships that there has to be a "bump and grind" routine, even after I tell them I'm only making one offer.
No, I think the Mayflower landed in 1620. Mine were late arrivals in 1638 and they settled about 30 miles north of Boston.
Somehow the image of a car salesman doing a "bump and grind" is not too pleasing. That's a good enough reason to not hang around and negotiate for hours.
I'm with you all the way on this one. But I approach this differently. Any dealer that runs screamer ads just isn't worth my time. In your case, you use their very own "tricks" against them. I do commend you for that as I despise "old school" dealers.
I think it depends on the area too. Here in central Florida there are few "old school" but more and more I see the direction changing. I hear it's still a snake pit in So Cal though.
Florida dealers are FAMOUS for that!!!!!
If he were to do the same with the auto industry he may have a more pleasant experiences.*
*(note to admin, as you can see I approached this in a much more civil manner then I did the last time. No name calling or anything)
i know there are well run stores that are customer-centric. i think it is the owner and sales manager's responsibility to set the tone of the customer / salesperson's exchanges and what sort of advertising they do.
i think often the salesperson's style is dictated by how they are rewarded, but also how the new people are brought in and developed, how their leads are provided / maintained, how their up system works, and probably lots of other factors.
i believe too, a portion of what they do is dictated and re-enforced by what actually works (or seems to work).
which is to say that we as consumers have a responsibility to determine if the tone and style are going to be agreable to us or not, and further not begin the exchange in a confrontational manner.
which also means, if things start going bad, we either need to help turn it around and assess if it's working, ask for someone else, or simply be polite - thank them for their time and leave the store.
i mean we are all people.
there's nojoy in manipulation, grinding for pleasure, wasting people's time, trying to teach someone a lesson, making someone look bad, forcing someone to feel defensive and unconfortable.
i think you've made some important points, but as other's have mentioned, the devil is (and is in) the delivery.
while the salesperson may not be the decision maker, you don't want your offer made to the sales manager on poor terms do you? if there's lattitude on the salesperson's part, you want it working in your favor don't you?
it's logical to me.
the regular salespeople here are interested in dialog. when they aren't telling a story, they entertain our questions and help people asking how to handle various situations.
if you adopt a confrontational style, then you'll know confrontation.
Can anyone share if
a) their past experience of dealing with such individuals/smaller dealers
b) can one trust their invoice (of their purchase at the auction)
c) Any benefits/risks
Thanks
Almost every story I have ever heard or been involved with that involves someone buying a used car wholesale from an auction ends badly.
You have almost no protection if something is wrong with the car. When dealers buy cars from auctions they can spread their risk out among many individual units but you can't do that.
Don't you hate it when people make blanket assumptions about your line of work?
Its all about perception.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
We all know the answer and it's not in the best interest of the customer.
And in a perfect world there would be no cancer and beer would flow from my water faucet.
But it is not a perfect world and not everyone can afford to pay cash for a car.
If people did not finance anything that depreciates then our economy would tank in a heart beat and 60% of the people here would be unemployed. Think of all the things that would stop selling.
Cars
Boats
Motorcycles
TV's
Stereos
The list is endless. Every time someone walks into walmart and buys a $12CD on there credit card they are financing it and it depreciates.
The "auction" middleman claims that the cars are flagged for any defects, and that one can review carfax (although I realize carfax isn't perfect) prior to the bidding.
Do auction companies such as Manaheim any advantage over a no name auction company
Thanks
What gives?
-Moo
Several years ago we bought a Discovery from an auction. It showed as a clean car and besides needing a deep clean and some dings taken out it was straight.
We don't buy many cars from auctions most of our used cars are tradeins, lease returns or bought wholesale direct from other dealers.
We buy cars from auctions to fill holes which is what we were doing in this case. We didn't have any Discos and we needed a couple.
We get the Disco in have the dings taken out put it through the certified check list and something seemed funny. They took a closer look at the Discovery a few days later and found that the frame had been repaired. It had been heated and then straightened which is a HUGE NO NO for any frame let alone a fully boxed one like the Disco has. It should have been flagged at the auction but wasn't.
We had a window of X number of days to get our money back from the auction if the car was misrepresented. Unfortunately do to weather, problems with transportation, a busy shop etc. we didn't find out about the problem till after the window had expired.
We worked with the auction to try and get our money back but they stood firm with their policy. I think we ended up getting a little money from them but not much.
Now we have a car that we cannot sell to a retail customer and would lose thousands upon thousands of dollars to wholesale away.
That Disco became a company car and was plated. We use it as a off road demonstration vehicle, picking up parts and just general run around car.
It is still going strong 30,000 miles later but does pull a little to the right so I guess it could have been worse.
If you happen to pick up a bad car like that you might never know and it might work out fine or you could try and trade it in a couple of years later and take a huge bath. The worst situation would be if you get a bad car like that and then it has huge problems or its safety is compromised for some reason.