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Amen Brother. That is what made me get out of the Army after 8 years and on a fast track for promotion. When it was time to re-up I told my wife that if we re-up again that it would not be a conversation again because we would be over 10 years.
She asked "Is there a chance we will ever come back to Ft Drum?" When I said yes a very good chance, I would probably go to Korea for a year unaccompanied and then back to Drum for 3 years she said lets go home.
Though I wonder if Carmax ships cars South from there Northern stores?
Do they salt? Heck, that's how we keep our NY cars in such great shape. Your wheels never touch the pavement because they put down 2 inches of salt for every inch of snow. Kinda like insulation. And after a few years you get these wonderful ventilation vents in the sides of your car. I think they enhance the value of NY driven cars. Just like the holes in the sides of the old Buick Roadmaster. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
doesn't the stuff wisp around after days of melting and drying? i mean, if you leave the climate control on "fresh" doesn't your brain take you to the coast?
I guess that is part of the reason but the other reason is there is just so much competition around here.
Also the Vibe is really just a Toyota Matrix which is based on the Toyota Corolla. It is really more of a wagon then a cross over. I doubt a Vibe weighs much more then 3,000 lbs compared to 4,500 something lbs for the Edge.
Why?
If you explain honestly your decision stage at each point in the process, the salespeople will invest themselves appropriately, and you will not be abusing their time.
I will totally explain my position. I am truly undecided.
I will not be wasting the salesman's time. I will only talk to him when he doesn't have any other customers. If he has a customer coming, then I will let him help the other customer; I'll wait; I'll finish my conversation when he's done with the customer. [*Brings book. Reads book.*] I'm just going in to be chummy in a way.
When I asked for the quote, I was seriously wanting to buy a car, but then I changed my mind.
Madmanmoo, have you had any customers offer to do some volunteer work for you in exchange for wasting your time?
The salesperson's job is to sell you a specific car. How in the world would he be qualified enough to know your personal situation and circumstances and then be able to give you a qualified answer??? You find out by yourself if you want to buy and car. The salesperson will help you pick one out.
I repeat. Do not go back into those dealerships. Do not test drive anymore vehicles. Stop wasting the precious time of those salespeople until you know whether or not that you want to buy a car.
Also, I think you've been cooped up in academia too much. You need to get a taste of the real world. Please go to a movie, restaurant, bowling alley or whatever to get out of the house. I think you're starting to lose touch with what is actually going on.
-MOo
-MOo
Why are you saying this?
Please give an opinion on my thought of volunteer work for the dealership/salesperson?
My own thought on this is you really don't need a car now and should just wait until the two years go by. My younger son lives in Manhattan; he's carless and it's a major plus for him. If he needs to go out of town, rentals work just fine.
I actually have a small vanguard of customers who wasted my time. I put them to work every other day. They work on the lot, make sure that the cars are in place, pick up garbage, follow up with my customers, and type out all my letters. There are tons of other things that they do, but these are some of the highlights.
It's strange, but I tend to get a lot less people wasting my time now. It still happens, but it's great to have these 30-40 customers who didn't buy actually putting their time to MY use now.
I think it's a great idea to volunteer for your local dealership after wasting their time. I know that you'll be welcomed with open arms. The salesman may be sad at first that he didn't get a sale, but when he realizes that he could have an indentured servant out of the deal, I know he's going to be happy.
Let us know how it goes!
-Moo
I have a feeling you are either yanking our chain in troll like fashion, or are incredible naive.
If trolling, I think you should ask tbaxxon about doing volunteer work for the dealership/salespersons.
If naive, I think you should get a date and go bowling or something. Except don't ask moo... mrs.moo would have a cow.
Either way... anybody out there locked and loaded yet? :sick:
Jip, please don't knock on the glass. You'll disturb some poster's peace.
Hosts, what do you think about moving all troll posts to a "Troll Forum". Think of the animosity and hatred that you could watch develop in front of your own eyes. I think that would be a wonderful idea. Instead of just deleting those posts, move them to that special forum. Please say you'll do it.
-Moo
Moo....you're killing me here
mypoint....here's the deal. Unless you're serious about buying a car, no dealer is going to negotiate with you...in any reasonable way. They're there to sell to motivated buyers. Those who are in the market, right now.
Corolla CEs tend to be the "stripper" models. I doubt you're going to find one with anti-lock and all the airbags. Your best bet would be the LE.
But, you have to decide whether you're going to buy a car first. The salesman can't make that decision for you.
Personally? I'd 86 the decision to buy a car. If you've only got a 15 minute walk to classes. And, you can easily use a bike or bus for shopping, you'll save yourself a ton of money by not buying a car.
You've kind of lost me here about the volunteering thing. Are you saying you want to volunteer to do work for a dealership in exchange for a car?
My guess is you are not in your university's business school. Dealerships aren't non-profit entities. As such, to keep the lights on, the employees paid, they make a profit on the goods and services they sell.
Sales is a tough game. From what I can gather, car sales is among the toughest gigs in the sales field. It's not a 9-5 game. I'm not a sales person, but manage a sales dept. I don't care if they've got a sick kid at home. I don't care if they're going through a divorce. I don't care if their husband/wife is cheating on them. The quota remains the same. They HAVE TO HIT IT (and preferably, exceed it) to make money.
Their income varies wildly from month to month. They certainly have to have thick skin. Their customers pressure them. Their management pressures them. They get it from all sides. I know I'm constantly putting pressure on my people to produce more and more...every month, every quarter, every year. They go into a little slump in sales, and their job disappears. If I've got a person who isn't meeting their quota, my commitment to the company to provide a certain amount of revenue is put in jeapordy. I find someone else who will hit "their numbers" to replace them.
I've seen sales people make a ton of money. The sincere and honest ones, make the most. For every successful sales person, I've seen 5 others who fail miserably at it.
So, I have a healthy respect for what they do. I also know how the "game" is played.
Its easy. I have bunch of customers working for me. They are called Bird Dogs. Every customer they send me I pay them with either $$ or free service. Some of them refuse to except anything because we have done business together for so long.
The best volunteer work you could do is to volunteer to stay away from the dealerships until you have it narrowed down as to when you plan to buy a car
AS far as the guy who wants to visit dealerships for "fun" I am all for it. I wish more people did this. As I once read or heard a salesman sells cars every day people only buy them once every three years......I encourage him to get all the "practice" and experience he can get. Its free time and yes he will be paid for it in the money saved at some point. free education and hands on experience will pay off. YOu have to have a pair and thick skin to do this but you are dealing with people who are the same.
Salespeople want desperately to have us believe them that this is the "last" and best offer. Then you leave and get a call with a better offer. You really don't know what is the best offer until the calls stop. THEN you know.
I spent a couple hours last week at a dealership. Took the wife. She Test drove a Rio5. Agreed on a OTD price ($14750) I would buy it at. Then I brought in the trade. Thats where the deal fell apart. They offered $2000 less then all the books.(Go figure) They call back this morning and bump it up $500. I told them We decided to sell it outright to a used car dealer for $500 back of Wholesale book. Of course they invited us back to do the deal. I told them not with taking another $500 off for my trouble.
Haven't heard anything back yet. I think we both decided to buy a used car still under warranty from a used car lot. I have had much better luck with those guys, and the cars are not all that bad. No run backs to the dealer for minor issues.
We did see a 2006 Scion for 19K loaded at $1595 at one of the most respected Used car dealers on the beach. The sales guy was honest and said I could probably buy a new 2007 for slightly more but he would be glad to sell it to me.
Maybe its me but the Used car lots (not the buy here pay here type) seem to offer more on trades and deals are much easier to make on their cars. Why is that? I have to assume overhead is MUCH much lower. There are some really nice showrooms as well, Not all of them have 12 cars rusting on grass in front of what used to be a hot dog stand. LOL
All the "checks" made by new car dealers probably but you really don't know which dealers are actually doing all that.
Certified cars are nothing more then making one pay for an Extended Warranty when you consider the price jump. I would never pay more for a "Certified" car.
BTW Lawyers do serve a useful purpose on occasion. No one really wants to deal with Car Salespeople given a choice. Its like going to the dentist for many.
I don't get it, what trouble did you incur? Why was the agreed upon OTD good last week, and this week, it isn't?
If all of a sudden there was more rebate in play, but hey, there's a protocol you're violating (your own).
I don't get it, what trouble did you incur? Why was the agreed upon OTD good last week, and this week, it isn't?
If all of a sudden there was more rebate in play, but hey, there's a protocol you're violating (your own).
The OTD price was fine. But they still did not offer me enough for the trade. They were $1500 back of fair value after bumping the trade up $500. I received that $1500 from another dealer. I expect the dealer to make the same $500 offer he made when he bumped the apparently worthless "We'll just action it off anyway" trade another $500.
Because I had to travel to another dealer to get what I wanted they lost the deal. No big they will sell the car for more to someone else. We are going to stop shopping now until the end of the month. No incentive for the Dealer at the beginning apparently.
Trading and new car dealers are not a good mix. They want to give you action prices not wholesale. If they don't want to resell the car or make you believe it has no real value for them DON"T TAKE THE TRADE at all! You are not doing us a favor by taking in a trade to auction off.The used car dealer I sold it to WILL sell the vehicle AND make a couple grand or more.
The Ford Dealer here just sold an exact Rodeo Rodaro like ours with 115000 miles on it for $7800. Listed at $10,500 So I know $5,000 for my wifes was more then fair. I called on the car and it was sold. OF course I told him what we had and he was anxious to have us bring it up but the Focus is old news and need a restyle. Ford line is bland and non descript. All of them. They don't go out on a limb like Chrysler.
I read a book awhile back. Can't remember the name of it, but it was a business tome. One chapter dealt with sales. In it, they said everyone is selling something to someone, all the time. Your kids are selling you on the idea that their curfew should be later. Your wife is selling you on the idea you need to repaint the bedroom. You're selling your wife on the idea that you need a new motorcycle or bass boat...or maybe you need to play golf on Saturday instead of cutting the grass.
Among the people who report to me, there are 6 sales people and two sales managers. Two of them will far exceed their quotas by the end of the year. Two of them will be at, or near their quotas by the end of the year. One, maybe two, of them will be fired for not getting near their quotas by the end of the year and their manager will be held responsible. Out of the 6, the top two I don't worry about. They keep bringing me deal, after deal, after deal. They close them without their manager's help, or my help. They'll make well into 6 figures this year. One of them needs me to prod her a bit and needs a manager's help to close deals. She'll be fine as soon as her confidence gets better. But, she's doing all the right things to be successful. She'll join the top 2 salespeople next year as a top performer.
The other 3 need help.. I'm getting the "good salespeople" to help the ones who are struggling. The bottom 3 have to conference call with me and their manager, one-on-one, every week where I put their activities under a microscope...manager's skills, included. They know they have to "pick it up", not only to make more money, but to keep their jobs. I don't threaten. I don't cajole. I won't let my managers do it either.
Every month I post revenue results, by person. The good ones see where they're at. The bad ones see where they're at. It's kind of like having your performance review posted monthly...only it's not filed in some HR drawer. It's posted so the entire company can see it. The stress is self induced. They know what they have to do. It's up to them whether they really want to continue employment....or be in sales as a career path.
They're all my hires. When one of them fails, I've failed. I'll do everything in my power to keep any of them from failing. It costs me more to find and train another sales person and/or manager than it does to retain and motivate the ones I've got to get better.
I see the same type of thing in car sales. You walk into most dealerships, and somewhere, you'll find a board that lists sales by sales person. Everyone in the dealership can see it....as well as the cutomers.
Regarding your Kia purchase....I think we all know you'll make more by selling your trade yourself. A car, any car, is worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. You found a dealer willing to give you $500 back of book (what kind of car was it, anyway?). You've got a dealer who is willing to accept your offer on the Kia, but it's not a real offer, since you changed it up a bit and want to offer $500 less than originally.
I don't know what the market is for Kias. But, I think you're making this way harder than you have to. Your original offer was $14,750. You changed it to $14,250. Shop that offer at your Kia dealerships and see if any accept.
I think you'll find most Toyota/Honda products that are only a year old, will be priced very near what a new model costs.
I don't mind at all dealing with car sales people. It's a business transaction. I know what I want to spend. It's up to them if they want to sell at my price. The ones who treat their customers badly, won't be in the business very long.
A reporter is looking to interview consumers now in the market for a new car, as well as consumers who would love to buy a new car but are not in the market yet. For those on the fence, why have you decided to wait and what would it take for you to start actively shopping for a new set of wheels?
Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com before August 8 with your daytime contact information and a few words about your decision.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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My brother worked for a large company is sales. HE was into the BMW, Polo shirts, Rolex watches. His value system changed to the material as a measure of his self worth and success. No way he could drive a KIA to the office. He would be cajoled. He had to have a luxury car, He said his manager might perceive a lesser choice as complacency!!!!!
He got sucked into what he called the "World of Golden Handcuffs" They encouraged the expenditure of expensive and ostentatious trinkets and debt. They used BMW magnets on their sales charts. They put their sales guys in the expensive hotels with nice "expense accounts" (apparently to get them used to the high life)
There was nothing else to really deal with the pressure for except the dollar and the "show off" of "success" . He nearly lost his wife and family and had a heart attack at 52 years old and decided enough was enough. He quit, sold everything including a 4500 SQ FT house, built a 1700 SQF home in a far less expensive area and took a pert time job teaching classes for adults. He says he has never been this content. As well my sister in-law. Only Took him 30 years to get there.
In contrast to him I have made an equal amount of money over the years buying, renting and selling homes. However I have no taste for prestige . He even offered me his Chartmaster?. I told him to sell it. I have no desire to obtain approval based on finances. I like to remain understated. I would rather drive an Avalon then a Lexus, Although Both cars are too big for us. I believe you go through life as a debtor paying someone else interest or a creditor receiving interest. I prefer the latter. Always have. We had a lot of discussion over this. He told me I "don't know how to live" . Im guessing he finally learned how to live.
I guess thats why used car lot owners are more relaxed. They enjoy the business but are not consumed by it.
You make good points and sound as though you are succesfull and I just start to tolerate you and then you tell some one to go shop all they want just for practice, like our time is useless.
You said your time was worth $500, the drive to the other dealership. What makes your time more valuable then mine?
You buy and sell houses for 200% profit, we sell cars on a 3% to 10% profit bases. Sometimes much more sometimes much less. What is wrong with selling a $50K vehicle and making $2K, when you sell a house you paid $190K for $300K it is smart business, when we make a $2K we are crooks. Or if I sell a warranty, gap, and make a point for a $1500 profit I am the evil F&I guy, As a realtor is pounding a sign in my yard she sells my house (really happened) and I pay her $12000 and am supposed to be thrilled.
That has always baffled me.
Good questions, (I too am not fond of realtors)
I don't resent that you sell cars at profit. There is a lot of money in selling cars at those thin profits. I don't see any dealer owner's starving.
The point I was making was if the dealer could have offered $500 more why not do it while IM STILL THERE? I would not go back there on principle.
With regard to the way I conducted my dealings. Its simple. The product I sell APPRECAIATES and is universally considered a good INVESTMENT. A word that is errantly applied to "automobiles" by sales people. Since when is a car an investment? Should'nt investments usually have a higher value over time? Good ones do. I deal with INVESTMENT. Car dealers deal with DEPRECIATION on all fronts.
It took ten years to make money in San Diego and those who bought the homes I sold got a double as well IF they held on when the values dropped soon afterward. In Las Vegas it was much faster. I bought in 2001 and sold in 2006. I had multiple offers on two 1150 SQ ft homes in the early $300's.
I took them and ran. They have since suffered a decline in value but if they hang on they WILL come out ahead.
The issue I have with some profit is HOW its gained and under what pretext. Misleading sales tactics, "Tricks" of the trade. I have never had to "mislead" someone to buy a property or bait and switch them to a higher profit property. LOL. Its against the law. Car dealers don't have such rigid laws. They can scream impossible deals all day long in all media outlets and get away with it. Preying on those who can afford the car the least.
We all KNOW extended Warranties are a waste of money. Every consumer guide agrees. Yet people are routinely scared into buying them. Fear is a huge motivator in advertising.
I encourage people to "practice" buying cars before they really buy one because they will not be under pressure and will save money when they do. Don't worry there are not that many people that have the nuts to do that in reality.
If you want to slow down in your life, or choose a different career path that may pay less, nothing wrong with that, either.
You are absolutely correct that a sales career is motivated by making money. Just like when you flip a house. You're selling. Would you buy and sell real estate if you couldn't make money doing it? Whenever I interview a sales candidate, one of the first questions I ask them is what their objective is. I've never had one cadidate answer that they wanted to house the homeless as a career objective. 99% of them say they want to make a lot of money.
Some people like nice cars. Some people like nice boats. I happen to like both. To say that my tastes somehow make me have a perverted value system is just off the mark. That said, I buy most of my clothes at Costco and Old Navy. Depends on what you want and what worth you put on different things. I really want to downsize my home, for no other reason than I don't need anything as big anymore. While, I'll live in something smaller, there are certain neighborhoods I prefer over others. A smaller home will cost me more than what my larger home cost when I first built it, in the neighborhood I want.
I sent my son to expensive private Jesuit schools from grade school...all the way through high school. Does that mean I wanted to be ostentatious with my money? No! I wanted to provide him with the best education as I could afford.
I don't think the value systems are any different for car sales people....at least, not the ones I deal with.
I believe lumping car sales people (or any sales people) into the cauldron of "lesser values" is just a bit pretentious. They are presumably doing a job they enjoy. I assume they like cars. I assume they enjoy selling. How that makes them less than ethical is the jump I can't make.
TB, you do make some very valid points, but I think you should think about de-personalizing (is that a word?) it. This industry has evolvoed over time to the way it is. I think it's actually improved, but left to their vices without some consumer and regulatory pressure we would have the bigger snakepits of the past.
I don't hold the individual sales guy responsible for an environment created by the industry. It takes one dealer to offer those "screamer" ads and bait and switch. Puts pressure on the other guys and they have to start more agressive promotions to stay in business.
With more and more competition on new car margins, the dealers are looking to make it up on service and add-ons. This is no different than computers or electronics. Ever cash in on that one day door crasher for that $50 TV or computer? Then they try to pile on service plans and cable and accessories at huge margins. Do you have one of those $50 printers than take $40 in ink cartridges every few months? I guess those electronics guys are crooks for trying to sell me that $100 Monster Cable that really costs $5 or how about that $25 service plan on a $50 DVD player?
I agree with you that it's important for consumers to be informed, but I also agree with GG that labeling the whole bunch of them as crooks is going to far. In some ways consumers have shaped this market. Saturn tried to have fixed pricing. Fitzmall has pretty fair prices, not the absolute bottom, but the public likes to negotiate I guess.
Unlike the capitalism in the US, other countries, like the former USSR had this kind of fixed price system for everything. Ultimately, it didn't go over all that well for them.
Honestly, I don't see what the issue is. Its your wallet and your feet, you get to decide which one to use and when.
It is starting to look like China might be in for some trouble too and may end up with a middle class, as the US looses it.
I don't believe I have ever seen anyone so scared or so hung up on a can of scotch guard.
Point taken its not for you. I have seen it replace the interior in a Windstar van. That cost well over the $199 she paid, (not $300) that has you so scared. Just buy a t-shirt that says no scotchguard or etching please and wear it to the dealer.
We all KNOW extended Warranties are a waste of money. Every consumer guide agrees. Yet people are routinely scared into buying them. Fear is a huge motivator in advertising.
No we all don't know that. It is your opinion. If we all had the same opinion as you then there would not be 2000 post in the thread about a good place to buy a Honda Warranty. I see no one in that thread scaring any body into doing anything.
If we all had your opinion I would not get 15 inquiries a month from people asking me to price a warranty to them. No one scared them into crap.
I do believe that until you quit making blanket statements about the industry and come to the realization that not every one is out to get you I will just not communicate with you any more.
We bought cars (and more) for 100 years with no Extended Warranties. Cadillac's developed blow-by that blew out oil at 40K and transmission's that routinely went out. Cars broke down constantly and were not made half as well as todays. As well they were not all that cheap in yesterday's dollars to fix either, But we did. Sometimes on the side of the road or in the parking lot at Pep Boys. That goes for many consumer goods.I still did not see the consumer clamoring for Extended Warranties. They clamored for QUALITY. Toyota and Honda delivered on it. The rest sold Extended Warranties. That was a business invention that created a need for itself through fear not practicality and as well negated the need for better quality. EWs are more profitable then better long lasting parts.
I have always said Some salespeople, Some dealerships. MOST sales managers, "The Closer" LOL. High Line dealerships do have a bit more class but not just anyone can get a job there as at the big three places.
Yes the whole industry is painted by a few. Quite a few. Thats life. Deal with it. All bikers are dirty. All dancers are hookers, All musicians are dopers. All Southerners are dumb rednecks. All New Yorkers are rude and loud. Where do these "stereotypes come from? At one point the truth! They all originate from truth like it or not. Some truths have shown themselves to be false over time. Others are still alive and kickin because their truth has not changed enough to wipe out the stereo type.
And Yes we are Capitalists. however Its a stretch at best to ask for a little self regulation and call it Socialism. Its a stretch at best to Scream deals that are impossible to deliver and call it Capitalism at work as well..
Its not only in car sales where misleading terms and tactics are routinely used. They are just the most brazen.
The word Virtually should be struck from the English language. It eradicates all the comes behind it yet is the most used word in advertising to spread a false truth. Would you get on a plane that as advertised will "virtually" make it to the destination?
Is the reason car dealers use Screamer ads because they feel they cannot do business honestly? Or because they work!!! Regarding the official looking ad on stickers,Its not about Scotch Guard its about the principle and You know that as well as I what principles I am referring to..
I honestly think you would reach more people with a bit less anger in your posts. I actually hope you continue to post here...
well then, this was one of your replies only a few days ago to one of my posts... my my how you've helped make this forum a dynamic place!
now then, you say your time is worth 0, but you inquired as to if volunteering in exchange for wasting a salesperson time was of value. were you being sarcastic or sincere?
expect being treated a bit rough. however, what doesn't kill you will make you stronger.
remember i wrote, the limb that bends doesn't break? i wish these sayings were mine... but they are truths of value to a person if they are open.
so as not to be conflicted, you SHOULD adopt a position where you value your time; you're relatively young, so your perspective is different than mine; i have many people to answer to. my time is valuable.
if i'm within a few hundred dollars, I HAVE thread the needle, I HAVE optimized the deal. I WILL pull the trigger.
think for a moment about valuing your time, and if not yours, the time of others. the latter is a matter of common courtesy and general humanism. but the former... it's about something you won't find here, but inside yourself.
i'm not saying you should value your time over another person... far from it... but you're gonna get further fastest with a salesperson who believes if you can come to terms, you are purchasing the vehicle.
Only if a salesperson complained strongly that I wasted their time. Then I would assist with an internet search or two.
When I go to a dealership, I do not drink their coffee or eat their snacks. I may even bring my own water. I want to reduce the cost of my visit to the dealership, especially if I know that I am not making a purchase that day. I suppose that dealerships provide refreshments in part to make the customers, who consume the food and coffee, to feel that they owe something to the dealership--that the customers should reciprocate by making purchases.
so as not to be conflicted, you SHOULD adopt a position where you value your time; you're relatively young, so your perspective is different than mine; i have many people to answer to. my time is valuable.
I suppose that as a student in a research lab I end up with extra time on my hands even after experiments, data entry, lab dishwashing, chores at home, exercise, relaxation, fun, etc. This happens when there is a bump in the road, say a piece of equipment malfunctions, and I have to wait a long time for the service technician to repair it. Doldrums of the lab.
When I was negotiating at two dealership last week, I was within several hundred dollars of the maximum price I was willing to pay, not of my target price.
I can do a lot with several hundred dollars. I can feed myself for many months. I don't even spend over hundred bucks on food each month.
you've gotten some good advice here. did you find a corolla CE with the options you desired?
how about an '07 4dr civic LX manual? only 17.5K MSRP with destination, probably could be gotten for 1K or more less than that. you got your side air bags, curtains, abs. :shades:
perhaps you need to look at other vehicles.
They post dozens and dozens of messages berating the locals and driving the moderators insane.
Then as suddenly as they came, they leave.
And things return to normal.
Don't feed the trolls.
I wish I could do that. I cannot because I cannot drive a stick. I don't know anyone who has a stick. I called all the driving schools around town, but I couldn't find any lessons. Where can I learn how to drive a stick shift competently?
all the driving schools fail to offer lessons on a manual? geesh. (you need to move).
ok, the auto is $700 more.
this is '07 honda clearence time. get busy.
You have to remember that teaching someone how to drive a manual is hard on the cars clutch and transmission. Few driving schools want to incur the expense that would incur when scores of student drivers grind through the gears.
I happened to learn when I was in the service on an old Army Ambulance (think M*A*S*H). Yeah it was tough but forgiving.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Let's try harder to stay on topic.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I think that is a generally accepted principal. You make a good point that the deal may go away after a bonus level has been met.
Here's a question that's been rattling around in my head for a while. What is the best time to ORDER a car?
A salesman on another board once stated that car dealers have to select what cars will fill their allotment for the month by the 5th day. I take this to mean that if you shop after the 5th you will have to wait until the next month to get your order processed.
The problem is that many times rebates and incentives don't show up on Edmunds or even the mfg. sites until 4 or 5 days into the month. This make it tough to do accurate research.
Any thoughts?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
If you find no value in a dealership's products or services, you simply walk away, money firmly tucked away in your own pocket. Just like at the grocery store...I don't buy every kind of soup in the soup aisle. I just buy the soup I like. I suppose the stock boy could recommend the split pea soup. But, I know I don't like, or want split pea. I won't buy it.
mypoint....maybe it's a personality "thing". I've never felt obligated to any dealership, to buy anything, if they gave me a soda.
In all seriousness, I said it before, I'll say it again. I don't think you should buy a car. You are in the enviable position where you don't need a car. From what you've posted, it will be of little benefit to you, in your situation. Plus, it's an expensive outlay of cash. You say you don't really want a car, but continue to put in a lot of time and effort shopping for one. Unwittingly, you are just confusing and frustrating yourself.
If you indeed decide you are going to buy a car, may I humbly suggest you take a friend or family member, who has car buying experience, with you. My guess is, someone with experience will help you immeasurably, navigate the car buying process.
blufz.....3 on the tree....brings back some memories. That's how I learned to drive a manual tranny.
oldfarmer...I've wondered that same thing.....is there a better time over another to order a car?
While I have no idea whether there is or isn't, I would imagine that it really doesn't matter. If you order a car, the best thing you could possibly hope for is to get within a week or two of its arrival date. I doubt whether you could plan, with any sort of certainty, that your ordered car would hit at the beginning, middle, or end of the month. You could try to hit those times, but I doubt it would even be 50-50 whether the car actually arrives on your designated day.
There are just too many variables. Will there be a manufacturing delay because of a part shortage? Will the car arrive by rail or by truck....or by both. How long will it sit in the holding lot? Where is it being shipped from?
Tough to nail all those variables down....especially if you're trying to take advantage of any current incentives, in the hopes they'll still be around by the time you take delivery.
So if incentives are good at the beginning of a quarter then you should be safe to order one and have it arrive prior to the programs changing.
Another thing talking about buying at the end of the month. The best months to buy at the end of are March, June, September, and December. Those are the last month in each quarter and allot of Manufacture Dealer Incentives are based on quarterly numbers. So you might catch some one needing one or two more units to meet a quarterly OBJ.
Now all of that is based on the way my Ford store runs, it is not necessarily true for every one.
My parents will also look for me. If they see a good deal even after including transport costs, they can buy a car in California and ship it to me.
Don't talk about trade-ins, don't talk about financing, don't talk about monthly payments.
Automotive salespeople use what's called a "4-Square." They even have a form that is literally divided into 4 squares. It's really designed to misdirect your attention from one aspect of the sale to another. As in - if they know you have a trade-in, they'll use that to adjust the selling price of the new car. More $$ they offer you for your trade-in = a higher $$$ amount they'll ask for the new car. Also - never get into a discussion on what sort of monthly payment you want to make. Any finance manager can find a way to get payments down to what you're comfortable with - but it usually means you will end up paying a higher purchase price for the car than you needed to. The rule is very siimple: Aways establish the price you are willing to pay before you discuss any other aspect of the deal.
If you're not comfortable with the haggling process - one easy route to go is to find exactly what you want before going to the dealer. Once there, explain that you are ready to buy the car right now, but only for "X" amont over invoice, and insist on seeing the actual dealer invoice. Typically most dealers will agree quickly to from $100 to $500 over invoice. Given that so much info is readily available on the internet - you shold know what to expect before you even see the invoice.
Naturally You can always find a better deal somewhere else if you work hard enough at it - but this is an extremely easy, sure-fire, no-hassle way to get a good deal (and fair price) on the car you want.
Good luck to you!
Lets say that you figure that the best deal you can get on your trade in is $10K and the best deal you can get on the new car is $22K that means you will pay $12K plus your trade in. Now does it really matter how they get to that $12K plus your trade in? Its pretty much the same if they gave you $1K for the trade in and charged you $13K for the new car or charged you a million for the new car and gave you $988K for your trade in.
Also - never get into a discussion on what sort of monthly payment you want to make. Any finance manager can find a way to get payments down to what you're comfortable with - but it usually means you will end up paying a higher purchase price for the car than you needed to.
No not always true if done right discussing payments can be a pretty decent way to do things. 4 things will decide what your monthly payment is first is the price of the car (net of trade in) the second is the interest rate charged the third is the down payment and the last is the term of the loan. Decreasing the first two will decrease the monthly payment while increasing the last two will decrease the monthly payment. The secret is, and this is very simple, is to stand firm on the last two. If you do the only way to get you smaller payments is to reduce the interest rate or the price of the car.
Naturally You can always find a better deal somewhere else if you work hard enough at it
Not true, there will always be a bottom price that no one else will beat. If what you say is true then all you have to do is work hard enough and you can get your cars for free. FWIW the last car I bought was one of those once in a lifetime never to be repeated again in this or any universe deal. No way would anyone have beat it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Does anyone know (or experience) if there are any laws in CA that allow a Buyer to return a car to a private seller (after the purchase) - say in 24 or 48 hours?