Buying Tips - How Do I Get the Best Deal?

jipster

Come on people are you dense or what?

LOL... I've always thought so. But, I think most here just enjoy a "spirited" debate.

I enjoy tbaxxon's posts, as 80 - 90% of what he writes is informative and worthy. But, he does need to tone down the anti-dealership/salesmen rhetoric. Maybe say "some" salesmen instead of blanket over generalizations that implicates all.

british_rover

Thats not spirited debate that is baiting.

Two entirely different things. By replying to those kind of posts you ignore some important real posts like the guy with the question about buying used cars from auctions.

Everyone just let that post slip by because they were too busy feeding the troll.

This is the last I will say on the subject. You ignore trolls they get bored and go away. You feed them and they grow in power eventually gathering "me too, me too" followers or just creating them with alts.

tbaxxon

Thats not spirited debate that is baiting.

Two entirely different things. By replying to those kind of posts you ignore some important real posts like the guy with the question about buying used cars from auctions.

Everyone just let that post slip by because they were too busy feeding the troll.

This is the last I will say on the subject. You ignore trolls they get bored and go away. You feed them and they grow in power eventually gathering "me too, me too" followers or just creating them with alts.

Now who's more "paranoid"? Don't worry I have offered many great tips here, Trust is the thing I do not offer as a tip. Sorry. Prove yourself trustworthy and you will earn it over time.

Instead of attacking you might try rebutting!

epiney

LOL... I've always thought so. But, I think most here just enjoy a "spirited" debate.

I enjoy tbaxxon's posts, as 80 - 90% of what he writes is informative and worthy. But, he does need to tone down the anti-dealership/salesmen rhetoric. Maybe say "some" salesmen instead of blanket over generalizations that implicates all.

I agree. If you get right down to the points, it's an interesting debate. I also think he has some valid points. I agree with the theory behind if not the delivery and have come across them. I ignore them because I'm not a typical customer. But for the masses, they need to be aware of those high margin, low value add ons and lease calculations and dealer focus on monthly payments as opposed to purchase price and finance costs.

Kirstie_H

The discussion is not about other people. We also don't accept insults of any kind. Posts are rapidly disappearing.

greanpea68

TBaxxon,

You are absolutley right. We the sales people want all of your money. We want to deceive you and make your life absolutely horrible. Your right, what can I say. You caught us! You can call the police and tell them to call the search off because you caught us.

I guess the only advice or suggestion I could make is you never have to deal with a evil dealership again.

I would ssuggest you buy all your cars from private parties because you'll probably get a better deal. :surprise:

greanpea68

Back to buying tips....if I'm sitting at the desk for more than 5-10 minutes while the dealership mulls over my offer, I assume their answer is "no" and they're putting together a counter offer. I don't want a counter offer, because it's going to be higher than my offer, every time.

Not entirely true. Sometimes a manager is working with 3 or 4 sales people at a time and it may take 10 minutes for the sales person to talk to manager to propose the offer. I know it is a pain in the but. Even for me as a sales person I hate the waiting game. I don't enjoy having it drag out either. It is just the way it is. Their is a lot of stuff going on other offers, trades appraisals, banks calling, other dealers trying to trade cars.

Just hang in their when it takes 10 minutes is what I am trying to suggest.

greanpea68

I agree with BR. When you buy from the middle man do you know what he actually paid for it? ALso you don't know mechanically what the car needs. When you buy from a reputable dealer they go through the car to make sure it is up to specs.

kyfdx

Well.. technically, he wouldn't be a middle-man.. A middle-man would add a layer to the transaction. If he gets a car from the auction and sells it to you, he is a dealer.

I'm not sure the "reputable dealer" argument is necessarily true, either. If it is a late model car, the dealer might have someone drive it around the block, change the oil and throw it on the lot. What a reputable dealer might do, is stand behind the car if it turns out to be crap... I'm not certain they would find out it's crap, beforehand.

All that stated, I wouldn't do this... If you actually knew the used car dealer that was getting your car from the auction, it might be worth it. But, you don't know this guy from your local BHPH lot down the street (quite possibly the same guy).

My co-worker of 20 years has a used car lot. I would even consider him a friend, and I've bought a car from him (for my MIL). BUT, I would never have him go to the auction to find a late model car for me.. We just have different standards.. and, I've overheard his "service after the sale" on the phone... I KNOW this guy, and wouldn't do it..

regards,
kyfdx
visiting host

greanpea68

I'm not sure the "reputable dealer" argument is necessarily true

I thought I would get that response from someone that is why i suggested a reputable dealer. I agree some new car dealers will just change the oil and hope for the best. But I also know what my dealer does and not to pat myself and my dealer on the back. We do go through the car very thoroughly. The last thing any dealer needs is law suit. I know my auto group doesn't want one. On our trades we have our master techs do the work. If they say the car is a clam we send it to auction.

kyfdx

Of course.. I wasn't specifically referring to your store...

ladybecca

Been reading this Forum for a few tips. I am looking to buy a Vibe and trading a 2003 Explorer.
I have been to a couple dealerships and must say Baxxon is on the spot with his observations. Perhaps because I am a women the thought is I am easy sale. Can anyone reccomend an HONEST non pressure dealershipin the NY tri State area that won't try to take my trade for "free".
After I did the math on one deal I was offered $7500 for the Explorer which is an XLT with leather, 3rd seat, 2WD, power everything. 3.0. with 37,000 miles and no sctches or even dings. In both cases the dealer would not appraise my car separately. I want to try going in and not even bringing the trade in until the end. That does seem more reasonable.
I am paying cash for the difference. Should I say I will finace the differnce then pay it off a few weeks later?
I have been shopping two weeks already and am disgusted with the process. My father wants to go with me but I really wanted to do this by myslelf. Maybe I should take him along.

madmanmoo

I would suggest taking Tbaxxon. He knows more about car sales than anyone of us will ever know.

I wonder also if this another episode of "I'm going to create another user name and start agreeing with myself".

Ahh, the hosts will soon find out.

-Moo

lilengineerboy

It might be hard to unload something RWD in snow country or something that gets 15 mpg. I also noticed that is the smallest engine for that model, so it might not be so good for towing. I think if its hard for a dealer to move a vehicle they tend to offer back-of-book on it, or an auction value. It might also be their way of saying they don't want your trade.
Have you considered trying to sell it privately? It sounds like a cherry, why are you getting rid of it?

oldfarmer50

"...just hang in there when it takes 10 minutes..."

Do you mean that sometimes the salesman will come back and offer a LOWER figure than you offered. Hell, I'll wait a week for that.

joel0622

I honestly believe that if I lived in NY there is no way I could be in the car biz. I have read about more bad experiences there then any place mentioned here.

In our market your Explorer would bring roughly $11000 to $12000 depending on the time of year.

oldfarmer50

"...If they say the car is a clam we send it to the auction..."

A clam? That's a new term for me. What is that exactly (I have a guess)?

So you send the clams back to the auction. I guess if you do a Carfax and the car has multiple owners in a short period of time this would indicate a clam being bounced between dealers?

british_rover

They still used the 3.0 in 2003???

I thought the 4.0 was standard by then.

Galves opens up at 7,500 for your truck before the mileage addition but after all other additions and deducts.

I get 8,625 with galves on your truck but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a bit back of book because of the time of year and gas prices.

The 2wd deduct alone is 2,600 dollars.

snakeweasel

Cars never (very rarely) appreciate and have a useful life of 6 or 7 years and should Never be financed.

Since cars generally run 1/4 or more the average household yearly income paying cash for most people is not an option. In reality there is nothing wrong with financing a car, just don't finance more than 80% of the price of the car (not including TTL), keep your payments reasonable (don't extend yourself) and keep it under 60 months.

Cars now have useful lifes of ten years or more, there is nothing wrong with spreading the cost of that car for 5 years (or less).

snakeweasel

If people did not finance anything that depreciates then our economy would tank in a heart beat and 60% of the people here would be unemployed.

It wouldn't tank, it would change but not tank. You gotta either spend the money or invest it either way. All you are doing by financing is forgoing future purchases to get current purchases.

joel0622

They still used the 3.0 in 2003???

I thought the 4.0 was standard by then.


It is a 4.0, and with the equipment she mentions I am positive it is the SOHC engine.

I am glade we don't use Galves. That truck Average Black Books for $10650 and Nada Trade In for $12550. Southeast Edition in both..

The closest thing I have to compare it to is a Eddie Bauer and a Limited both 2004's with miles in the 40's. We have $16500 in the EB and $17500 in the Limited + pac and recon

joel0622

You gotta either spend the money or invest it either way.

What do the folks who don't have any money do?

I know that when my wife and I were first starting out if some one told us that the only way we could get a car was cash we would have been walking the first 6 month and I am here to tell you Ft Drum New York to Nashville TN is one helluva long walk.

snakeweasel

What do the folks who don't have any money do?

Not sure but I manage to survive. :P

I am here to tell you Ft Drum New York to Nashville TN is one helluva long walk.

May I ask where abouts in Nashville? I used to live by the airport, I worked at the Kroger at Thompson and Murphysboro Rd

british_rover

Oh pshaw you just get on the Appalachian trail and head south.

:P

A friend of mine in college did hike the whole trail from Maine To GA. It took him six months to do it and he started in Maine in May then finished in Georgia around thanksgiving.
Seriously though financing is not bad you just have to do it the right way.

joel0622

May I ask where abouts in Nashville? I used to live by the airport, I worked at the Kroger at Thompson and Murphysboro Rd

You probably know exactly where I work then. I am at the Ford store at the intersection of of Donelson Pike and Lebanon RD about 5 miles from the Airport.

I work there and live in Mt Juliet.

snakeweasel

Yeah I have been by there a few times. My dad later moved to the Hermitage area and when I visited him I would drive Lebanon pike into the city proper. My dad moved to a subdivision where every street was a Bonnasomething. :confuse:

kyfdx

I was born in Nashville... We lived in Donelson until I was five..

mako1a

lady, I have lived in and been stationed all over the place. Have bought cars from same and I gotta tell you I would avoid the NY, NJ metro area. Have you ever considered a little two day trip to buy a vehicle? I buy in West Virginia because of the ease of transaction and state laws helping consumers not get taken by bad sellers. Their fees are capped at $45 and all vehicles regardless of age must pass inspection. They generally give fair trades and when the paperwork is done you get the title (or Certificate of Origin) on the spot. You'll have to do your own DMV work, but hey saving lots may make it worth the trip. ps Galves is a rust belt super low trade-in book and should not apply to a 2003 Ford unless you do a lot of beach/salt driving. Just an alternative choice from a non dealer.

british_rover

Galves is what all of new england uses along with parts of New York and New Jersey.

I don't like the book either but everyone uses it around here so that is what you have to work with. Galves is usually on the low end and it is up to the appraiser to decide if a car is behind, above or right at galves.

I can't see her car so I can just tell her what straight Galves is. I agree that most of New York and NJ are tough places to buy cars.

joel0622

My dad moved to a subdivision where every street was a Bonnasomething.

Yep that would be known as the Bonna's. There are about 40 streets in that sub division and they all start with Bonna.

Next time you come home to visit stop buy and I will buy you a cup of coffee.

mako1a

After I hit send I thought about the Explorer Limited I sold. That was a good vehicle with 4WD and the 4.0 and best part was the seats. Ohhh so comfortable. JBL stereo was good too. I don't know much about a Vibe, but trading a Ford for a Pontiac seems to be a move in the wrong direction. Sorry, Pontiac sellers, just my opinion. Dave

ladybecca

Thank you. I don't live up there I live in NC but there a few dealerships and I won't deal with either of them. I was told the competition is tough up there in the NY NJ area,and cars are less expensive. I will probably check out Virginia, I was hoping for at least $11,000 on the Ford. I don't want the big truck any mmore since I changed work and don't need the space. Oops It is a 40 engine. I could swear the salesguy said it was the small 30. I paid $16,300 for it in late 2005. It hasnever been in a snow state. Was bought in Albeuquerque and lived in New Mexico. I bought it in NC. Its really in excellent condition.

I may give Virginia a try. I like the laws if what I read here is true.
Anyway thanks all you have been helpful

imidazol97

>Now we have a car that we cannot sell to a retail customer and would lose thousands upon thousands of dollars to wholesale away.

Your customers thank you for not foisting it off to them or to the auction for a different dealer to get it who might pass it along without the damage warning. Good ethics in keeping it for a runner/demo.

snakeweasel

Well I would take you up on that but since my dad has since gone to his great reward and they tore down Opryland there isn't much to get me down there. But I have a sister in Orlando and if I drive down to see her I will make the effort to take you up on your offer.

joel0622

Galves is what all of new england uses along with parts of New York and New Jersey.

I wonder if that publication is used there because cars live a tougher life then they do other places? For instance a car that drives on the road through 3 tough New York winters is going to have more wear then a car that goes through 3 Tennessee winters. Plus there is allot more stop and go commute type driving there then there is here.

I know that we never buy any cars through auctions or brokers that come out of the North.

Do they still salt the roads there?

joel0622

You may get more for the Explorer at a Ford Dealership. Check out the new Taurus X or Possibly the Edge. They are in the same Crossover Segment as the Vibe, though I think the Edge is probably more car then the Vibe.

greanpea68

$7500 sounded like all the money to me when she said it. I was kinda stumped as why she thought she was getting ripped off. It is 2wd so we would have no use for it up here. No body is looking for a 2wd suv.

If anyone is looking for a 2wd it absolutely has to be a FWD car for better traction in snow.

Yes Joel they still use salt up here every winter. We'll keep using that untill they come out with heated roads in the winter time.

I think one of the reasons that wholesale prices are lower up here is because I believe we have more competion with a heavy populated area and so many dealers. Everyone has to advertise real low prices so which ends up lowering what trade ins are. You can walk on my lot and a year old car will cost you the same as a new one.

I have heard Ny and NJ are tough markets also

joel0622

Damn, I need to open a Used Car lot here in the South but go North to get my inventory. Like I said earlier her $7500 car there is a $11K-$12K car here. People here could care less if it has 4WD. So when the competion here is selling them for $14K I could be at $11K and be making $5K a copy.

210delray

I live in central VA, and the doc fees (called processing fees here) are not capped by the state. They run around $225-$250 here for non luxury vehicles. Generally, the dreaded "second sticker" for dealer add-ons doesn't appear. However, when the Cobalt of all cars first came out, the local Chevy dealer had tacked on a "Market Value Adjustment" of $300 or so. :sick:

I helped my son buy a Prius in the Shenandoah Valley (over the Blue Ridge from me) and that dealership had "only" a $150 doc fee.

Maybe I'll have to check out the dealers in West VA next time; it's not really that far away...

210delray

Agree, I don't see what the big deal is with financing. Both of my Camrys are financed, the older one for 5 years through Toyota and the newer one for 4 years through the local credit union. On both cars, I put down large down payments. The one financed with Toyota has an interest rate of 2.9%, about the same as the inflation rate, and I received a $750 rebate. On the newer one, it was either special financing or a rebate, so I took the latter.

Agree also that cars will last more than 6-7 years; I had my 1980 Volvo 240 for 21 years (1982-2003) and I certainly got my money's worth out of that car.

mypoint

I find I get a better deal when I don't really need the new car.

I'm wondering what's your take on not needing a new car.

I'm at a point in my education that I don't absolutely have to get a car. I can walk to school in about 15 min. I can buy a bike for school and grocery shopping. There is a free shuttle that takes me in one direction, from school to home, every hour. However, having a car would be more convenient when it rains or if there is a lot of snow accumulating on sidewalks from the bad snow plowing in my neighborhood.

Of course, I will have to get a car in two years when I start clinical rotations at some off-campus sites. I cannot use the public transportation system in Toledo for commute to these off-campus locations because the buses do not run frequently or late enough at night.

I received a better offer through email. The offer is still not perfect because it is for a 2008 Toyota Corolla LE with ABS, side airbags, and 6 CD changer. What I would like better is the lower-priced Corolla CE with ABS and maybe side airbags.

As a sort of experiment, I will be returning to the Toyota dealership alone which I previously visited to talk to the salesman who emailed the better offer. I am still uncertain if I should buy a car, but I feel closer to not buying a car. I have a belief that an effective salesman should be able to sell anything to a customer. I will tell the salesman that I am unsure if I should buy a car because of what I mentioned above and more...I want to hear what he has to say.

jipster

I'm wondering what's your take on not needing a new car.

Somebody please shoot me, push me off a cliff, anything ... OHHHH the agony! :sick:

edited: to isell, jmonroe...maybe Kristie, the above is a joke.

tbaxxon

Lady Do not go to the northeast, Stay south. 2WD are preferred down here. No need for the additional insurance and traction.
I am not surprised by that "offer" at all. Its nearly $2k back of what you should get. Anything more then $10K is good. That will stay on the lot with those miles and it being a 6 cyc, the perception of better MPG will be in the dealer's favor as well. The Explorer is rated high here on Edmunds as well. Don't give it away.

Yes its always best to shop for a car before you need one. If you stumble upon a great deal buy it. When one can afford to wait, the cars one is looking at are depreciating much faster then the car one owns. Besides walking a bad deal is easy when one has reliable wheels.

jmonroe

Somebody please shoot me, push me off a cliff, anything ... OHHHH the agony!

Don't worry I would never do that but I know what ya mean. I don't read her posts anymore. If I wouldn't be looked at so suspiciously, I'd kiss the guy who invented the scroll wheel on my mouse. :confuse:

jmonroe

madmanmoo

As an experiment? Wow. Don't go in. Don't buy the car. Don't waste anyone else's time.

This is why I no longer work internet leads.

-Moo

snakeweasel

I also encourage the "hosts" to prove your paranoia is real.

Hosts have been wrong in that area before.

driveright

You report that you are a graduate student, so I suggest an analytical approach to your situation.

1) Decide on your own whether you want to own a car. This may take a little thought, but no research. Don't expect salespeople to sell you on the idea of car ownership.

2a) If you want to own a car, do some research on Edmunds, Consumer Reports, websites of various manufacturers, vehicle-specific forums, etc. to narrow your search to some vehicles to check out.
2b) If you have decided not to buy at this time, you can use this time to go to a movie or have some friends over for dinner.

3) Go to the nearest dealership for each car of interest. Look at the car(s) and sit in them. Meet a salesperson. Take his/her card. Ask some questions about features. Take literature. Leave to consider which cars you want to test drive.

4) Return when ready to select a car to buy and own. Test drive a very short list of cars (2 or 3). Leave to consider your options, including rebates and market values.

5) Select the car you want. Begin price negotiations only at this point, whether in person, by phone, or by email.

When you know that you want to buy a car, what car you want, and what you are willing to pay, everything is much easier. If you explain honestly your decision stage at each point in the process, the salespeople will invest themselves appropriately, and you will not be abusing their time.

oldfarmer50

"...I have read about more bad experiences there (New York) then any place mentioned here..."

At last,we in New York state are #1 in something besides taxes!

oldfarmer50

"...What do folks who don't have any money do..."

We drive Ford F-150's with 250000miles on them.

"...Ft Drum New York to Nashville TN is one hellava long walk..."

Yea, but to get out of Ft. Drum it would be worth it. You could always walk as far as Watertown and then catch the bus.

user777

good luck though.

i'm particular - when looking for used vehicles, i'd exclude vehicles that have been owned in the NE and / or show signs of salt / sand corrosion.

yeah, that means getting a carfax, getting under the car and looking at it, but also looking at edges on sheet metal, particularly doors and fenders.

and the pot-holes those NY drivers have to negotiate! i'm surprised people have aluminum rims up there. extra wear and tear on suspension components i'm glad we don't have down south.

anyway, a NE car is worth less in my mind, all other things being unequal. :shades: