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2013 and earlier BMW X3 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • davidc1davidc1 Posts: 168
    Thanks very much. And another question, are there any incentives (reasons) why the dealer would sell for $1K less (40k instead of 41K)?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 110,862
    At $43,000 MSRP there is about a $3500 spread between MSRP and invoice... It is the end of the model year and some dealers will be aggressive on price to move out the '04s. At my closest dealer, they have at least 20 X3s on the lot.

    But, some dealers won't go that close to invoice at all.. sometimes it depends on local competition, or just dealer philosophy, or magical fairy dust, who knows?

    If I'm negotiating, I'm going to try for something close to invoice.. but, realize that I may not get it... It all depends on your personal situation, just like it depends on the dealer's own situation...

    From reading about other poster's deals, it looks like $2000 off is not too hard to accomplish, that is why I based the numbers on that. You may be able to do better...

    regards,
    kyfdx

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • davidc1davidc1 Posts: 168
    Thanks. I'll let you know how I'll do. I got an email quote of $448 but they are now looking into my trade (on paper).
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 110,862
    That is what mucks up most car deals.... good luck!!

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • twhantwhan Posts: 45
    Can I still order a 2004 X3? Or I am better off buying one off the lot? I want the Nav, but I want to drop some options in the PP. I seldom see one with Nav.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 110,862
    I'm almost positive it is too late to order an '04, but the X3 may be on a later schedule, due to just coming out in December last year. I'd call a dealer and ask.

    Almost every '04 that has navigation is going to be loaded up.. most buyers that will spend $1800 on nav, want everything else as well. What is there in the premium package that you don't want? Or is it just to keep the price down?

    regards,
    kyfdx

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • twhantwhan Posts: 45
    Just to keep the price down. So I would rather trade wood trim, reading light, automatic climate control, storage package, BMW asist for a Nav. I know it's expensive, but after getting lost several times around town this year, I figure I need one. What do you think?
  • jane3jane3 Posts: 21
    OK, so I am still looking for opinions on the BMW Nav system. Worth it? Better to get portable? I want the premium package anyway, so if the Nav works well (i've seen the Benz Navigation and it is WONDERFUL).....
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 110,862
    Well.. for resale, the premium package is going to be worth more than the navigation. Plus, if you are looking for a deal, finding one off the dealer's lot will almost always get you the best deal. But, every one I've seen with navigation was a 3.0 with almost every option.. all over $45K.

    I guess the navigation would be nice, but then again, I have an extremely good sense of direction. My guess is, if you've never had a car with nav, then you can live without it, but you'll have to make that decision.. Me? I have to have xenon lights.. I'd give up leather or upgraded sound system to get that.. we all have choices to make.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • Hi all...any help would be appreciated...I've been reading many of your posts and to be honest, it's been a bit overwhelming. Having said that, I looked up some resources online so I could at least understand some of the terminology for leasing (I've never leased before).

    I visited a BMW dealership for the first time last week and test drove a X3 2.5 with the PP. I'd like to lease, but I have no idea what a "good" deal is or not (besides thinking the deal that was given to me wasn't too bad). This was what was stated:

    X3 2.5 (6MT) + moonroof + heated seats = $33,195 MSRP
    Down payment = $2500
    Acquisition fee = $595
    Monthly payment = $299

    Is this a good deal? I've read the term "drive away" cost in some of these posts and wasn't sure what that meant? Is this the total up front amount? What is the advantage of paying a down payment up-front, versus not having one up-front (I'm assuming that gets rolled into your monthly payments then...in which case, is interest applied to this amount)?

    Sorry if these are elementary questions, but I stink at math and don't know what calculations govern lease payments.

    As I said earlier, any help is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 110,862
    1) That wouldn't be a "great" deal.. Assuming 10K miles per year, that is about $1200 off MSRP.

    2)drive away: you have it exactly.. that is the total upfront amount.

    3) IMO, no advantage to making a downpayment.. yes, you pay interest on the money, but in this case, the effective interest rate is only 2.6%. Disadvantage is: You total your car, the insurance company pays off the leasing company and your downpayment disappears.. It isn't worth the small amount of interest saved in making the downpayment.

    4) Knock another $800 off the price of the car, and roll the downpayment in and the payment changes to $345/mo. for 39 months.. If you can't get a lower selling price, the payment would be $366/mo. with no downpayment.

    5) The base acquisition fee is $525.. if they are charging $595. they are marking it up.

    If you have any other questions, or need clarification, ask again. You seem to have a pretty good handle on it.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    EDIT: I assumed the acq.fee was rolled into the cap cost.. upfronts would be first payment, security deposit and registration.. All these numbers are PLUS TAX.

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • davidc1davidc1 Posts: 168
    ky,

    As expected deep down, the trade is/was a problem. Payoff/trade in gap is about $3K. I decided to let it go since I am happy with status quo at the moment. Current lease deals are fantastic though. I'd recommend others (except those whos leases are not up yet) to jump on it.
  • kyfdx,

    Thanks a ton for the quick reply. Do you mind answering a few more questions for me, in response to your answers?

    You stated:
    1) That wouldn't be a "great" deal.. Assuming 10K miles per year, that is about $1200 off MSRP.
    --Can you explain what you mean by $1200 off MSRP for 10K miles per year? How does number of miles allowed impact the MSRP?

    Also, you assumed that the acq. fee was rolled into the cap cost...does this mean you assumed that the MSRP included the acq. fee already? If a dealer is telling me that I need to pay an acq. fee on top of the MSRP, am I being taken?

    Thanks (again)!
  • According to a website that I found, the definition for money factor is a number, often given as a decimal, used by some lessors or assignees to determine the rent charge portion of your monthly payment.

    Question: How is this number used to get to your final monthly payment amount? Is it: MF times the monthly cost of the lease that covers just depreciation? Maybe a better question would be: how is monthly payment calculated? Is it something like:

    A = monthly cost of lease to cover depreciation
    B = Tax
    MF = Money Factor

    A+B+(A*MF) ?

    Am I over-simplifying things? What are all of the things that should be considered when calculating drive-away? Should it be:
    Down Payment (if any) + Sec. deposit + Acq Fee + First Payment + Registration/Title Fees

    What about Dealer fees? Sorry for all of these questions :( but I'm trying to get a handle on how much leasing really will cost me (versus the ads that I see in the paper). How does credit rating play into all of this?

    Again, thanks for all of the valuable advice.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 110,862
    "1) That wouldn't be a "great" deal.. Assuming 10K miles per year, that is about $1200 off MSRP.
    --Can you explain what you mean by $1200 off MSRP for 10K miles per year? How does number of miles allowed impact the MSRP?"

    important terms.. MSRP: List price for the car. Also the number multiplied by the residual percentage to obtain the residual value.
    Selling price: What the leasing company pays the dealer for the car.. the selling price you negotiate plays a major part in the monthly lease price.. Even if you just negotiate a monthly payment, they have to start with this figure.
    Cap cost: This is the selling price + any additions not paid up front (Acq.fee, etc) - downpayment (cap cost reduction, not recommended).

    The miles/yr don't affect the MSRP, but they do affect the residual percentage. On the X3, a 10K/yr lease has a residual of 62%, while a 15K/yr lease has a residual of 59%. IOW, you'll pay for 3% more of the MSRP over the life of the lease for the higher mileage allowance.

    The MSRP is used to figure the residual amount.. after that, all calculations are based on CAP cost.

    "Also, you assumed that the acq. fee was rolled into the cap cost...does this mean you assumed that the MSRP included the acq. fee already? If a dealer is telling me that I need to pay an acq. fee on top of the MSRP, am I being taken?"

    The acquisition fee is a fee paid by you to the bank that owns the car and then rents it to you. Every lease has this.. You can either pay it upfront, or have it added to the CAP cost (I always roll it in). It has nothing to do with the MSRP.

    "Question: How is this number used to get to your final monthly payment amount? Is it: MF times the monthly cost of the lease that covers just depreciation?"

    There are two components that make up the monthly cost of the lease.

    1) Depreciation: This is the difference between the amount you pay for the car (CAP cost) and the residual value (% of MSRP--what they estimate it is worth at the end of the lease).
    Example:
    CAP COST = $32K RESIDUAL = 22K
    Depreciation = $32K - $22K = $10K
    $10K divided by term of lease (39mo.) = $256.41

    2) Interest or finance charge: The money factor is used to compute the finance portion (AKA-rent charge) of the lease. It isn't imperative that you understand how they get the number, but just how to use the formula.
    RENT CHARGE = (CAP cost + residual) X MF
    Example:
    (CAP cost ($32K) + residual ($22K)) X MF (.0011) = $59.40

    Your final monthly payment is depreciation ($256.41) + rent charge ($59.40) = $315.81 X 39mo.

    "What are all of the things that should be considered when calculating drive-away? Should it be:
    Down Payment (if any) + Sec. deposit + Acq Fee + First Payment + Registration/Title Fees"

    Exactly: I recommend no downpayment and having them add the acquistion fee to the CAP cost.

    "What about Dealer fees?"

    No different than purchasing a car.. The acquisition fee is a special fee that goes to the leasing company or bank (BMWFS), but any other fees should be treated as necessary (govt fees like registration/title) and unnecessary/dealer profit (dealer prep, document fee, etc).

    Sheewwwwww.... this is my all-time longest post.

    Hope this helps,
    kyfdx

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • twhantwhan Posts: 45
    Edmunds should pay you for your contribution to the forum. As for X3, if I cannot found a 2004 X3 with the options I want, when do you think is the good time to order a 2005. It seems to me that everybody is getting X3 around 500 above invoice. Should I wait a little bit? Maybe the end of this year?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 110,862
    I don't know that I would order an '05.. Maybe just wait a few months and see what is on the lots... The week between XMAS and New Years is always a good time to get a good car deal, regardless of brand.

    My current employer probably wouldn't be too happy if I was getting paid to do something else while I'm at work!! LOL

    regards,
    kyfdx

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • kyfdx, you definitely should get something from edmunds for your great advice. I wonder if there is a market for lease advisors... :) Again, thank you very much. I'll be going into BMW this afternoon to drive the X3 one more time and will make a decision.
  • jbx3jbx3 Posts: 5
    "As expected deep down, the trade is/was a problem. Payoff/trade in gap is about $3K. I decided to let it go since I am happy with status quo at the moment. Current lease deals are fantastic though. I'd recommend others (except those whos leases are not up yet) to jump on it."

    How many miles were on your 325? Like I said before, my 03' 325i with 13,000mi was an even turn in for the X3

    I guess it just depends on the dealership and how eager they are to move the 04' X3's

    I'm glad you passed. I wouldn't have exepted anything but an even turn in for your lease..they make plenty of money on reselling the cert. pre-owned's

    Let me know if you want to know anything on the X3 in the future...I'm loving this car...
  • davidc1davidc1 Posts: 168
    jbx3, I had 8500 miles on mine. But it was a zero down lease. Where did you get yours? I am in NJ. I have to admit that I am becoming fixated on the X3.
  • jbx3jbx3 Posts: 5
    "jbx3, I had 8500 miles on mine. But it was a zero down lease. Where did you get yours? I am in NJ. I have to admit that I am becoming fixated on the X3."

    I'm in Atlanta, GA and mine was zero down also.
    But it shouldn't matter where you live..should it? (National lease incentives are thru BMW Financial)

    Did you try more than one dealership? Someone will work with you if the want to move the car..

    You won't be unhappy with an X3...It's definatly a step up from the 325's...more car...simialar payment...
  • davidc1davidc1 Posts: 168
    I think I'll wait see what happens in December. My dealer is considered to be pretty aggressive. I also wonder if the 05 x3 will have the new engine.
  • Just as a note of comparison, I just leased an X3 yesterday. MSRP was 42895. I paid 41000 with a money factor of .0009 so the payments worked out to $559/mo. with no money down (no cap reduction). Not the greatest deal ever, but okay. Also included floor mats and a trailer hitch. I get the car the week, so we'll see how it goes. Not a tremendous amount of choice in vehicles, but the money factor was reduced as of Sept. 1 probably to get ready for 2005's.
  • As of late last week, it would seem that some 2004 x3s are still coming into the port. You just have to hunt around.

    As for your question about the navigation system. I've been told over and over again by dealers that the installed systems for any cars aren't really worth the extra amount. It's easy, and somewhat less expensive to have it installed as an after-market option.

    As for what you prefer to trade for different options -- are you aware that some dealers may have different packages in stock? For example, you can get a power-seat, moon roof, but no cruise control, wood trim, or climate control in some of the x3 models to keep the costs down? Some may come with other options like a moon roof, and an upgraded stereo, but nothing else.

    I would think if you get lost, like I often do, that BMW assist would probably be a worthy investment. After all, I think someone can give you directions, or other assistance, after the complimentary term expires. Check it out.

    Good luck!
  • I got a quote for an X3 2.5, automatic (and some other minimal options) with MSRP of $33,100 for $448/month, 36 months, 12K/year (from Patrick BMW). That seems quite high compared to everything I have read here. However, the sales guy claims that they are selling/leasing like hotcakes. They didn't have exactly what I wanted in inventory (they only 5 or so in stock) so they have to do a swap with another dealer.

    Any suggestions on how to get a lower price? Thanks a great deal.
  • richzrichz Posts: 151
    Thanks.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 110,862
    Aren't there eight dealers in Chicago? I'd take a drive or get on the phone.. If your dealer only has five X3s, then I'd start looking elsewhere.. Competition breeds lower prices, or at least it should....

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • Can any one help(like kyfdx)? I want to lease an X3 ’04 for under $400 w/tax of 6% - in NJ?

    No money down
    3 yrs
    X2 2.5 MSRP $30,995
    Premium Package
    Cold weather package
    Automatic
    w/ all MSRP $37,295
    Invoice $34,215

    Should I negotiate off the invoice price or the monthly lease amount I want? Also, I just need to get a car within the next 6-8 weeks?

    What to do???
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 110,862
    I don't know what the lease numbers are for September... If you use last month's lease numbers, and you got a $500 over invoice deal, 39mo/10K lease would be right at $400/mo with nothing down, for the $37,295 MSRP.

    If you have a good idea of what is a good deal, then you can certainly negotiate a monthly lease amount, and just leave invoice, etc. out of it. You just have to make sure you are signing for the terms you negotiated... Duration, mileage allowance, amount due at signing, and monthly payment including tax.. If all four of those things meet your requirements, then the rest of it doesn't matter... I mean..that is what the lease comes down to in the end...How much does it cost upfront, how much does it cost each month, and how long and how far can I drive?

    regards,
    kyfdx

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • Can any one help(like kyfdx)? I want to lease an X3 ’04 for under $400 w/tax of 6% - in NJ?

    No money down
    3 yrs
    X2 2.5 MSRP $30,995
    ...
    w/ all MSRP $37,295
    Invoice $34,215

    Should I negotiate off the invoice price or the monthly lease amount I want? Also, I just need to get a car within the next 6-8 weeks?

    What to do???

    I am not an expert with leasing, but I would think that you'd want to negotiate with the price of the car, first, and then, the monthly lease amount, after. Don't let them confuse you betweem the two.

    May I recommend the best dealer and salesman that I've encountered in NJ, so far?

    I have been in contact with four or five dealers by this point. The best experience I had was with the Denville BMW, which is part of the Morristown group.

    Now, I heard that Morristown BMW is really bad.

    I know a number of dealers are refusing to negotiate, and insisting upon charging either MSRP, and even, a premium for having the car in stock.

    That's a scam.

    Denville is under new management, and the people I dealt with, treated me with courtesy and respect, and interest in ensuring that I received good customer service, despite being a lone woman.

    They also were the only ones to offer a fair lease rate, which has now changed a little in Sept., from August.

    They also have a pretty good selection of x3s in stock, and if you choose something in stock, then they will be more willing to haggle.

    Check them out. JMK tried to rip me off...

    The name of the great salesman was David Want, Denville BMW. He's British, new, and eager to be of service.

    I haven't gotten a car, yet, but I believe they will be getting a new shipment in, very shortly, okay?

    Good luck!
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