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As we have seen from a few disgruntled buyers, the Toyota dealership IS Toyota to the buying public. I have only read a couple of instances where the buyers were turned off by less than reputable practices in conjunction with selling the Prius. Those people are lost by Toyota or it would seem they are. I guess I am in the dark on dealing with these guys. I have only bought one new car face to face with a dealer over the last 20 some years. I use the phone and lately the Internet. Going to Tipton Honda was a joke as far as I was concerned. They acted like they were selling the crown jewels. The Toyota guy trying to sell me the Prius in 2000 was very pleasant and I would have bought from him, except for my ex-wife.
My point is the Automakers need to exert more control over the dealerships. If they get complaints squeeze off their supply of premium vehicles.
About the wage, I think this is pretty straightforward, you need to be profitable to survive, so what if you pay more than your competitors if you're going out of business? Think the airlines, GM, and Ford.... not to mention, Toyota does not underpay its workers, what's taking down GM and Ford is the fact that Ford and GM offered too many lucrative pension plans when they were making money, now that they have stiff competition, the revenue is not enough to cover the expense. It's that simple. BTW- I've never bought a Toyota in my life, I have a Ford Mustang and a Jaguar S-Type, but I would definitely consider buying a Hybrid, and I certainly hope that Toyota flourish because of the great technology and inventions that they've brought us.
BTW- your computer, clothes, utensils are probably made by people that make a few dollars an hour, are you going to get rid of them?
Honestly, I feel pretty disgusted by what you've posted and your ignorance of what's going on in the world, and how you got all your facts through "Googling", it's really a big turn off...
Lastly, one of my acquaintance lives in Lexington, Kentucky and works for one of the Toyota plants, his job provides him with stable income and he actually feels very happy working for Toyota.
Saudi Arabia is one of the richest countries in the world per capita. Do you consider them a World power? I don't, we protect them also. What have they done for US?
I buy Hawaiian shirts made in Hawaii, shorts made in Anahiem by OP, coveralls made by Ben Davis in San Francisco and Dexter shoes until they pulled out of the US a couple years ago. I buy my sandals from a company in Long Beach. I don't own a pair of sports shoes as they are all made somewhere else. The only reason I bought the VW TDI made in Germany is to have a diesel vehicle when they squeeze our oil supply and I have to get fuel at McDonald's. I get turned off by the mindset that thinks it is OK for the other guys wages to be undercut, just don't mess with mine.
More off topic posts have been removed, and further off topic posts will also be deleted. Let's show a little self control and stop this short of putting access to the forums at risk. That's an ending to the story we want to avoid.
PF Flyer
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News & Views, Wagons, & Hybrid Vehicles
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That's funny.
By your criteria, every country except the US is a third world country!
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/19/tech/main696386.shtml
Gary, that "catalytic converter replacement" has stuck in your craw for a while.....You are completely correct when you said "maybe these things go out on all new cars."
Modern cars are complex. Your TDI has complex components in it that are also going to be expensive to replace out of warranty. No modern car is immune from that. Look at the service department of any car dealer - they usually have 5-15 cars in the bay at all times, and SOME of those repairs are out of warranty and which are expensive.
What do you propose Toyota do? Announce to buyers "just as a warning, hey, you might want to trade this car before the warranty expires, because it's got a LOT of expensive parts that are likely to fail on ya, buddy !!" ????? That would be insane !!!
I think anyone who buys a new car is obligated to themselves ( unless they have a $5000 emergency car repair fund laying around ) to purchase an extended warranty to 100K miles. It only makes sense. It just "extra insurance" to cover yourself in case of bad things happening.
I had an Infiniti Q45 that had repeated failures of fuel injectors, and those were $645 a pop plus labor, out of warranty. Nice cars have expensive parts - that's a fact of life.
http://www.phoenixgasprices.com/images/charts/xchart97.png?ii=44782
That tells you what the future holds, right there....The last $1.50 USA average we will EVER see was about January 2004.....
Sorry folks, but you better hedge for the future NOW and buy a Hybrid (or a clean diesel, if you can get ULSD where you live: how about that plug, Gary?)
For the details look at the early May edition of Forbes(unfortunately I do not have web access to the site).
Fuel costs as a % of total annaul car ownership today amount to about 10 -15%. So if Gas prices double and reach close to the $5 range, fuel cost will only increase to 20% to 30% of annual car ownership costs. Is that such a BIG DEAL! I dont think so!
So what is the most expensive part of car ownership. Depreciation!
So what is the best way to reduce car ownership costs? HINT: Certainly not by buying a hybrid.
The best way to reduce car costs is to buy a reliable car and keep it not only in terms of years, but decades.
The proof of my theory is sitting in our garage: My wife's 83 Mercedes 300D. There is no hybrid in the market today that will save the bucks like this Benz did these past decades and hopefully future decades.
It is about time we shatter the myth that high gas prices at the pump will fincancially strangle us. But right now based on some of the contributions of fellow forum members, I have concluded that most do not want to be confused by facts! So I guess the myth will live on! Long Live Hybrids!! :P
(( HOSTS: Just joking hosts, don't nix me for the Anti-Diesel sentiment !!! ))
Depreciation is a fact of any car's life. And the Hybrids thus far have depreciated VERY LITTLE over the years....
And keeping a hybrid 21 years like your Merc, figuring in $3000 for one replacement battery along the way, and saving $900 per year in fuel costs (recent study showed average fuel savings for hybrid owners are $900 per year) means a total fuel savings in 21 years, minus the battery replacement, is $15,900 ......
That's pretty decent saving of bucks........
It is the most practical family heirloom we own. I have nostalgic memories of farm visits--so diesel fumes for me are no big deal.
Cant argue with that!!
I am sure you are correct on that one. We are programmed to think that is cheap gas. And if you live in England it is real cheap gas. What is amazing to me is Canada. They are our number One source for imported oil. Yet they pay a lot more for gas than we do. Hopefully those taxes are being well spent on better roads. Not sure how hybrids are selling in Canada. I know we have posters that live there and can let us know.
And, yes I have used ULSD in my little tractor and now my TDI since first learning about it right here on Edmund's.
Canada will require low sulfphur diesel sometime during 06/07. I believe the specific date is uncertainl
If you really want to have a bigger impact, then you should have bought a car that's made here in America, not a Volkswagen. Both of my cars, the Mustang and the Jag are own by Ford, which costs a whole lot more than your sandals, Hawaiian shirt, and whatever else you got. I guess I am the super hero the protects the American labor.
BTW- why do you think Germany has been in an economic slump? Its welfare policy and the unions. why do you think GM and Ford are in a slump? The unions that are getting the pension and pay when the company is bleeding money! What happens all these companies go bankrupt? No jobs at all, is that a better world?
That being said, I do agree with the host that this has gotten to be personal, and I agree, because it really is a big turn off to talk to you, so I will no longer respond to your posts in the future.
http://www.computerworld.com/newsletter/0,4902,101832,0.html?nlid=SH
http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4020143&src=LP%20used
me: right! A good auto-related way to cut oil consumption is to tell the soccer-Mom not to get a hybrid instead of an SUV, but NOT to drive the kid to soccer practice at all. Did you ever notice how much more people drive these days?
you: There are multiple priorities to consider.
me: yes and safety would be considerably higher than worrying about an extra few hundred $ per year. When oil is depleted sufficiently we'll have to use another energy source. Saving a little of our oil supply by switching vehicle types makes no difference in the centuries down the road.
don't have a hybrid, but have a pzev rated car. took the suv to the airport.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20050519-0521-japan-toyota-gm.html
The Stuttgart-based carmaker is holding talks with potential partners in the industry to develop a more fuel-efficient derivative of its best-selling model amid rising pump prices and sinking sales of the Cayenne in the United States. "
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0505/23/0auto-190342.htm
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=105640
I think most Porsche fans would be turned off by driving a heavier Cayenne that is equipped with the same engine as a hybrid Highlander? I think such a route would have been a Porsche disaster!
I cannot imagine why they would even consider one. The Cayenne is a fairly potent offroad vehicle. They would lose that. The lower HP to weight ratio would be a turnoff. Porsche has to accept that the Cayenne like the Touareg V10 is a niche vehicle. Not everyone wants or can afford them. I never understood the motive for building them except for some of the exotic races in different parts of the world. If the pricing held to what happened with the Lexus it would be a $100k Cayenne that would be slower than the V8 turbo.
Uh okay....who is really going to take a Cayenne off-road???? ANswer: No one.
Who says the Cayenne would end up getting the 3.3L or 4-cylinder engine from the Highlander??? it's more like Porsche would license the technology and or components for the electric motors, batteries, and software systems, but not the engines.
I am not sure where you have gotten your information. There are people that go offroad and race offroad. The Cayenne was made for that. It is not a Wannabe SUV like so many of the FooFoo SUV's on the road. The Hybrid SUVs that are available are not much good offroad according to the manufacturers.
The Porsche Cayenne is engineered with some of the most advanced off-road technology ever featured on a production vehicle. Its exceptional all-terrain prowess is rooted in permanent all-wheel drive and integrated off-road systems. Advanced technologies ranging from Porsche Traction Management to ABS brakes and Porsche Stability Management interact flawlessly to deliver exceptional traction on any surface.
For more challenging terrain, simply shift the transfer gearbox into “low-range” mode and you are ready to go. The Cayenne Turbo air-suspension system allows you to increase the ground clearance setting to 10.75 inches (Special Off-road Level) for safely navigating the most serious off-road obstacles. This air-suspension system is optional on both the Cayenne and Cayenne S
http://content3.us.porsche.com/prod/cayenne/cayenne.nsf/usaenglish/offroad_performance
As Gagrice mentioned it is a niche vehicle that serves a purpose---a Suv with emphasis on the S initial. Once you add an electrical motor, batteries and software system the S initial can be written in lower case sUV.
1. $250K household income (mostly husband's salary)
2. Urban dweller.
3. Wife is unemployed but active in community and charity work.
4. Kids are late teens or College or older and have already moved out.
Methinks that family will not be going off road in their Cayenne that often.....:D
P.S. Actually, I undershot by $15,000 in my above guess. It's $265,000:
http://forbesbest.com/2003/03/31/cx_mf_0331feat_6.html
His boat(s) are docked at the seaport or at the lake. He is not pulling one back and forth from the water, and if by chance he IS doing that, he probably uses his Hummer for that menial task.
That argument does not fly Gary -Porsche will never "hybridize" the Cayenne to the point of uselessness like you seem to assume.
If they do hybridize it, they will do it within the design of the current vehicle and not "lose" all the "offroad prowess" that so many owners will make use of.....:D
As is always the case, your *Why* questions are pointless. YOu make it seem like 100% of gas only Cayenne's will be replaced by hybrid cayenne's. If a prospective Cayenne customer wants a vehicle for off-roading, he can buy the regular Cayenne V8 and go off-roading.
"I am not sure where you have gotten your information. There are people that go offroad and race offroad."
A great suggestion would be to come back to planet earth. Here on planet earth, very few Cayenne owner's(especially in the US) take their SUV off-road. Besides, haven't we been through this before??? Surveys have shown 95% of ALL SUV owner's NEVER take their SUVs off pavement.
BTW, I thought you were leaving this board about a week ago to concentrate on some Diesel board??? Also, isn't Germany a Third World country according to you???
Take it up with Porsche then. I'm not forcing them to build hybrid SUVs, the marketplace is!
As usual your posts are full of holes. Does everyone who buys a SUV have a cabin in the woods(and don't cabins in the woods typically have driveways that lead up to them?)??? Does everyone who has a SUV own a Boat????
Hey you know what? Just about every house in my neighborhood has a SUV in the driveway, everything from Ford Escape's to Lexus LX470's to Chevy Suburbans, and NONE of them have boats! And this is about 30 SUVs.
"Most people that buy SUV's have ideas of getting away to where no one else is at."
Time for a reality check, most people who SUVs buy them for image today and they never go off-road! Again remember about 95% never take their so called SUVs anywhere near off-road(unless you consider the Wal-Mart parking lot off-Road).