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Comments
Diesel Hybrids on the way if this works well....
I think this sounds strange. I was hoping by 2030 we'd be using something other than oil.
:shades: :shades:
Are you surprised? We will all be pushing up daisies before any other source of energy surpasses oil. I think Exxon has the best view of the oil business. Whether they are honest in their appraisal is anyone's guess.
The only thing that has a chance to surpass oil for energy is Nuclear generation and electric vehicles. I don't see that happening.
The more hybrids on the road, the better for the oil companies, because that means the use of oil will continue for a longer period of time.
We are on the same page now!!! Ever wonder why they don't promote diesel. It can be made from Coal, Natural gas, waste cooking oil, grain crops, old dead trees, algae. All things they have little control over. The oil companies have controlled the world for at least 75 years. They don't want to give that up.
The link is to story of a diesel electric car constructed by students and teachers on a $15,000 budget of grants and a lot of hard work.
Impressive results.
Energy Balance
Biodiesel yields the greatest energy gain! Gotta love it!!
EPA CITY MPG: 48
CR CITY MPG: 26
EPA SHORTFALL: 46 percent
falcononeI am SO angry that my Liberty was off 30% from the EPA.
At least you do not drive a Civic Hybrid mpg :lemon: !!!
46% off of EPA mpg.
I EASILY get low 50's when I drive a Prius. Hardly EPA material. Anyone with a half a brain knows the EPA tests are flawed. Heck..even the EPA says their tests are flawed. Meanwhile... I got rid of my POS Liberty that barely achieved 15. My inlaws average 13.8 overall in 22,000 miles in their GC.
Hybrids... the darling of the automotive press!!
Gotta love it baby!!!! Go hybrid!!!
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=108445
Nice words for the HCH. I would definitely consider that vehicle too!!!
Please...look at the EPA site. WARNING!!! CRD/TDI is hazardous to your health. Pollution rating of 1!!!! The lowest you can get!!
Can't love that!!!!
For those that never step foot out of the city. You can go to most any Mid western town and get B20. That is all one of my co-workers from South Dakota runs in his new Ford Powerstroke. It is also cheaper than #2 fossil diesel.
As far as Willie Bio-diesel that started on Maui. Willie has a home in a community that produces all their electric from solar, no outside electric lines. They all use B100 biodiesel in their VWs, PUs and MBs. Woody Harrelson loves the lifestyle and feels he is helping the environment. They also home school their children so they don't get filled with all the ignorance spread about in our public schools.
EPA flaws in the system. I know many of you like to point out the flaws with the EPA testing system because it makes the hybrids look bad. How about the emissions tests? Are they any more accurate. I have not seen any results of testing diesel cars with ULSD. The head of CARB feels we should do something with diesel now that it is lower in sulfur than gasoline. To write off biodiesel the best alternative fuel we have available, is sad. Hybrids still support the Saudi lifestyle. Driving a VW TDI on B100 supports our farmers. Go Willie & Woody.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Diesel is a hydrocarbon and any hydrocarbon can be converted into another hydrocarbon (within reason). Anything that you can make diesel from you can make good old gasoline from. There may be an energy trade off. When crude oil is refined you get some gasoline and some diesel as well as other products.
Diesel has more energy content per gallon or pound than gasoline which has more energy content than methane(natural gas) which has more energy content than hydrogen. Some engine designs use fuel more efficiently and some produce fewer pollutants.
What hybrids do that is unique is that they save the energy associated with slowing the vehicle down and use it for acceleration. This really is free energy that would otherwise have been converted into heat at the brakes.
Do you really think:
1) that Exxon is the only oil company in the world.
2) That oil companies don't control natural gas.
3) that coal companies are any different from oil companies
4) that big companies don't control grain crops and trees
The reason there are so few diesels in this country is because gas was cheap (OPEC) so consumers and the EPA did not want to deal with noisy stinky engines.
We are on the same page now!!! Ever wonder why they don't promote diesel. It can be made from Coal, Natural gas, waste cooking oil, grain crops, old dead trees, algae. All things they have little control over. The oil companies have controlled the world for at least 75 years. They don't want to give that up."
I believe that you are forgetting that the major oil companies control the fuel distribution system and will likely continue to control them far into the future. So no matter what fuel is used in cars of the future, it will likely be sold at service stations controlled by the likes of Exxon, Shell and BP.
And companies like Exxon and Shell do not control the supply of petroleum; the oil exporting nations like Saudi Arabia Russia and Iran control the supply of oil. Exxon and Shell buy the oil from them. They are the ones who are really making out like bandits with oil prices being so high.
Absolutely, as far ahead as you want to project. What will be interesting is the influx of alternates like B20-B100 & E85. I am sure they will jump on the bandwagon to maintain control. Right now in San Diego there is one independent dealer owned by a Ford agency that sells all the exotic fuels. 5 more are scheduled to open the first of 2006. Time will tell if it pays off for them.
That is the very reason I question the sanity of those thinking they can use hydrogen. It will requre a totally different infrastructure. Who is going to spend 100s of billions of dollars for a few thousand vehicles running around the country.
Probably the only way to diminish their hold on the market is if there was a massive shift to public transportation and away from private vehicles.
Any forecast that goes out for 25 years is bunk!
How many forecasts did you read 25 years ago(assuming you were born) about hybrids or googling or web-browsing?
In mid 2004 they already had orders for all 35K units in the USA and announced that the line which was producing 33% Prius' would go to 50% Prius'. With the constant high demand by the end of '04 the US goal became 50K with an increase of 50K units in 2005 to 100K units. The production line would be dedicated only to Prius'.
Then the gas price spike hit in Sept. and they could have sold twice as many. It's come back down to the forecasted level since gas has moderated.
I believe they are not interested in selling anymore hybrids than is needed to look green
I see this everyday. It has nothing to do with Toyota. It's the local salespeople. They know that the leadtime is 4-12 weeks so they wont be paid on 'your' sale for 3 to 4 months. They want to put you in a vehicle today and be paid next month. If they don't pay next month's bills they may not be around in 3-4 months. That's just a fact of life in the auto business. It's called 'sell what you see' and it applies to every model.
Here is a key point about the Prius IMO. It is not the main player in Toyota's plan. The Camry is. At some time in the future the 'early adopters' will be exhausted and the heart of the market will where all the action is.
Camry's, Corolla's, Highlander's and RAV's. A few Prius' will still be sold to the pointy heads like .. me. The Prius is too edgy and controversial. The Camry is a comfortable slipper.
1. They keep it "low end 4 cyl not souped" so that people can get into them for mid-20s.
2. They MAKE SURE that the supply is adequate so that dealer markups will NOT become a detriment to wide-scale acceptance.
If they do those two things, this car will sell like HOTCAKCES at a Lumberjack Convention !!
The upcoming Detroit Auto Show is going to display the 2007 Camry Hybrid, I think. One article said it's going to be "an Early 2006 release of a 2007 model year car" which means to me that the Camry Hybrid must be doing well in testing and is virtually ready for the road as we speak !!
Bring 'em ON, 'Yota !!!!! :shades:
As well as the vehicle manufacturers who IMO are poised to pump out millions of millions of Diesel vehicles just as soon as the fuel is approved in the entire country. This could be the real revolution in the next 10 yrs... including diesel hybrids.
The HSD Camry will be a 'tweener I believe. Good performance for a midsized vehicle, he estimates < 9 sec 0-60's, with 40-something mpg FE. That's a nice combo. Price, price, price??? I'd guess something like the current V6 ICE Camry or slightly higher... ~$25-26K for an HSD Camry LE with all the safety features.
Honda Will Cut Excess Price of Civic Hybrids to Bolster Sales
Dec. 22 (Bloomberg) -- Honda Motor Co., the world's second- largest maker of gas-electric cars, said it will cut the excess cost of so-called hybrid system on the Civic by a third within 5 years, as it phases out the gasoline-powered version in some markets including Japan.
The additional cost of using a hybrid system to run Honda's Civic compact car will fall by a third to 200,000 yen ($1,702) each, as development costs are halved, President Takeo Fukui said today. The Civic Hybrid, with a four-month waiting list in Japan, is priced at between 2.2 million and 2.4 million yen.
Honda is relying on hybrid versions of the Civic and Accord, its two best-selling models, to compete with Toyota Motor Corp.'s Prius as record gasoline prices spur demand for vehicles that burn less fuel. Tokyo-based Honda may put diesel engines in light trucks in North America, where it sells about 49 percent of its vehicles, Fukui said.
``Once we are able to cut costs and lower the premium price of the hybrids, there is a possibility that in some markets like Japan, we will only sell Civic Hybrids and no more gasoline- powered Civics,'' Fukui said in an interview today. ``We plan to install diesels in bigger models and hybrids in smaller models.''
PHASING OUT gasoline-only models in place of Hybrids - what a NOVEL and WONDERFUL IDEA !!!
Thanks Honda !!! :shades: :shades:
Wouldn't be funny if the best Hybrid system came from the EPA instead of Toyota/Ford/GM/Honda ?????
The EPA's system was demonstrated at an engineering conference last year on a prototype Ford Expedition SUV and will be used next year in at least one UPS delivery truck next year.
The UPS truck could get as much a 70 percent increase in fuel efficiency in city routes, the EPA estimates, and the added cost of the trucks should be paid off in fuel savings in about 2.5 years.
All these vehicles are diesel powered. Diesel engines are inherently more fuel efficient, to begin with, than gasoline engines. The use of diesel also allows the EPA to show off "clean diesel" technology it has also developed in its laboratories.
You can bet if the EPA developed it, they will approve most of the current and future diesel engines for the USA. I liked the hydraulic hybrid from the inception. It is very simple in design. It is technology that has been used in heavy equipment for decades.
HHHHHMMMMMMMMMMM.................
That was mentioned "as a possibility" but not a certainty.
Apparently Honda does not have the "supply woes" that Toyota has. They probably make all or most of their hybrid parts themselves - they are a very accomplished "engine-building, engineer-driven company" after all.
The Civic Hybrid, with a four-month waiting list in Japan, is priced at between 2.2 million and 2.4 million yen.
http://www.fuelcelltoday.com/FuelCellToday/IndustryInformation/IndustryInformati- onExternal/NewsDisplayArticle/0,1602,6948,00.html
The government announced Wednesday a five-year plan to develop and widely diffuse hybrid cars so the country's major automakers, Hyundai Motor Company and Kia Motors Corporation, can produce up to 300,000 units per year by 2010.
The administration has paid about 36,700 U.S. dollars for each hybrid car, which is a far short of the minimum 100,000 dollars that cost to produce each unit.
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&ne- wsId=20051229005070&newsLang=en
PROVO, Utah--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Dec. 29, 2005--Raser Technologies, Inc. (PCX:RZ) ("Raser"), a technology licensing company that develops and licenses advanced electric motor, electronic motor drive and related technologies, today acknowledged the passage of HR2863 on December 21. With this final bill approved by Congress, it is anticipated that the President will sign it into law.
Included in HR2863 is $2.1 million of a proposed $12 million multi-year program for the development of Hybrid-Electric Military Vehicles, including Integrated Starter Alternator research and development. The funding will be administered by the Department of Defense.
Will 2006 see Plug-in-Hybrid vehicles making their debut.
Infact they can start a vehicle with 10 mile range which may cost around $ 2,000.
If this year, hybrids get 1% world market share, that would be a big achivement.
After Prius starts sales in China this year.
Lucky Cab Co. takes hybrid cars on a test drive
Jason Awad has never shied away from trying something new.
The owner of Lucky Cab Co. bucked the taxi tradition of larger cars a few years ago when he began adding small Chevrolet Impalas and eventually even smaller Toyota Camrys to his fleet of 120 automobiles.
Three months ago, however, Awad went even further by purchasing four hybrid Toyota Prius cars. The four hybrid cabs are being put through their paces to see if they can withstand taxis' 100,000-miles-a-year average and remain viable.