Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stickguy

FWIW, Consumers reports recently rated the Q7 #1 in the class, and it was not even close (as in it was a record setting performance).

stickguy

and that is one thing about a lease (with rare exceptions). It keeps you from doing something too quick. No clue about mine, being slightly over 1/2 way through (but way under miles), but have no desire to find out. Though I suspect, the dealer would love to have it back to resell!

stickguy

oh, for you now? if you really want to thin the heard, could always dump the X5 and S4, and get something relatively affordable to replace them as your spare car. then keep the Sedona as the DD.

breld

I think the new Q7 would be my choice price notwithstanding. I've really grown to appreciate the interior of the Audis.

If I'm smart, which I'm not making any claims there, I'll ride out the lease in the van, and at that point a CPO Q7 may be a great choice.

So here's a question I have for you all - at about $40-45k, you can get a brand new, very well-equipped CX-9. Or for about the same money, you can pick up a used/CPO Q7. Which is the better deal? (I have my own thoughts, but am curious what you all think).

28firefighter

I'd take the Q7 any day over the Mazda.

stickguy

have not driven either, and did sit in the Audi. But based on what I have read, as long as the Audi was no more than 2 YO and CPO, without too many miles, I would go with that.

henryn

Do we have to be interested in those two to get a vote?

tifighter

I'd say something about how neither of these cars give me warm fuzzies when it comes to resale, and let's face it, it is going to get traded on something else and in the case of @breld , in probably less than a year. We all know any new car will depreciate faster, so that is sounding like an expensive Mazda.

Were you thinking of leasing the CX-9 or buying?

fintail

Took the new car in for inspection after the chunk 'o concrete incident last weekend. No apparent damage - service advisor said I really didn't even need to replace the damage skid plate (but I probably will soon as knowing it is damaged will hit my OCD side). In his words, these are "tough" cars, it takes a lot to harm them, and I would know it if something was damaged. The car drives like nothing happened. Relief. And the part isn't even that expensive, under $200 for a large plate, not bad for a German car.

corvette

fintail said:

No apparent damage - service advisor said I really didn't even need to replace the damage skid plate (but I probably will soon as knowing it is damaged will hit my OCD side).

On a lease, I wouldn't bother. If I owned it (and wanted to keep it pristine), maybe.

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

You know what though @roadburner, at 59 you are probably very close in age to the median age of people who are buying the newer, higher end BMWs (no mortgage, kids out of college, time to enjoy life a little bit). I know my parents have a tough time with new tech in their cars (Dad is 70, Mom is 68). I'm sure they'd appreciate dealing with someone like you who can explain the tech as it relates to them.

I think you mentioned something about the latest iteration of idrive & climate controls is the best ever in BMWs. Back in 2005, my Mom leased a (RWD, no Navigation) E60 530i. I know you are familiar with BMW's red/blue knob at the top of the center vents. Well, twice a year I had to go to their house to "turn on the AC" or "Turn on the heat" because instead of a red/blue knob, that function was buried 5 steps into idrive.

@nyccarguy, my wife made the same observation- that I'd be able to relate to older BMW owners and be able to convince them that they too can learn to operate the newer electronic features. Second day in- and still enjoying things, although as the salespeople here will attest, things can go from dead slow to full manic in the blink of an eye- and vice versa.

breld

tifighter said:

I'd say something about how neither of these cars give me warm fuzzies when it comes to resale, and let's face it, it is going to get traded on something else and in the case of @breld , in probably less than a year. We all know any new car will depreciate faster, so that is sounding like an expensive Mazda. Were you thinking of leasing the CX-9 or buying?

True, true.  Yeah, I'd do the Audi too, assuming it had reasonable miles and ideally some warranty left one way or the other.  

Seems we all agree - the upfront price of the car has little to do with the overall cost compared to the subsequent depreciation.  So I'd say the Q7 has taken the brunt of its initial depreciation, whereas the CX9, as nice as it is, is just on the brink of the steep loss.  Now, a used CX9?  That may turn out to be the best deal.  

breld

And, as far as the lease vs buy on the Mazda, does it really make a difference?

28firefighter

breld said:

And, as far as the lease vs buy on the Mazda, does it really make a difference?

Not to me... Not to mention the lease rates will be awful on the Mazda for the foreseeable future.

stickguy

Mazdas never seem to lease out well it seems.

28firefighter

I have occasionally seen the Mazda3 and the CX-5 lease out fairly well.

Also, wasn't someone here close to pulling the trigger on a 6 lease?

fintail

That's the fun. So far I feel with this car, I am the closest to wanting to buy it at lease end, I really like how this one feels. And it will bug me, so unfortunately, it will probably be repaired this summer.

corvette said:

On a lease, I wouldn't bother. If I owned it (and wanted to keep it pristine), maybe.

Michaell

Another trip to CA planned ... another mid-sized "Corolla or equivalent" reserved.

This trip is personal .. off to see family in SoCal next weekend. Fly out next Friday, home the following Monday.

kyfdx

Drove the '09 Saab Aero XWD.

Fast. Better handling than a FWD Saab. In pretty good shape, no rattles. Lots of luxury options, that all still worked (no NAV). Giant trunk, fold down rear seats. Nice soft leather.

But, clutch lets out within the first 2". Shifter didn't seem sloppy, but finding gear slot was very difficult. Definitely needs some work there. Took a lot of joy out of the driving experience.

You can't really find that much car for the money, but that doesn't necessarily make it worth owning, even at that low price. We are going to pass on it.

stickguy

if the clutch is shot and needs some shifter work, that could certainly get pricey quick, so your bargain buy might not stay that way. Unless of course, that is just the way they are.

graphicguy

Michaell said:

I may be back in the market sooner rather than later. More to follow...

Oooooooo....hoping this is good news!

stickguy

well, it either means a job, or a total. Hoping for the former!

Michaell

stickguy said:

well, it either means a job, or a total. Hoping for the former!

I've still got the E-GT sitting in the driveway.

I am heading to the dealer today ... the MINI dealer. The Countryman needs service - second one in 25,000 miles. I'll get to scope out the new Honda and MINI palaces that @breld was at earlier this week. I've got a loaner requested; be interesting to see what they put me in.

corvette

Michaell said:

Another trip to CA planned ... another mid-sized "Corolla or equivalent" reserved. This trip is personal .. off to see family in SoCal next weekend. Fly out next Friday, home the following Monday.

How about a Chevy Spark? 

kyfdx

stickguy said:

if the clutch is shot and needs some shifter work, that could certainly get pricey quick, so your bargain buy might not stay that way. Unless of course, that is just the way they are.

Yeah.. it's hard to know which, and I'm not willing to pay to find out.

Mr_Shiftright

kyfdx said:

stickguy said:

if the clutch is shot and needs some shifter work, that could certainly get pricey quick, so your bargain buy might not stay that way. Unless of course, that is just the way they are.

Yeah.. it's hard to know which, and I'm not willing to pay to find out.

That's a $2000 repair job, east. And we don't know if the clutch replacement will cure the shifter notchiness.

Michaell

corvette said:

Michaell said:

Another trip to CA planned ... another mid-sized "Corolla or equivalent" reserved. This trip is personal .. off to see family in SoCal next weekend. Fly out next Friday, home the following Monday.

How about a Chevy Spark? 

I saw some at the hertz lot in SFO. Tiny. 

Im in a loaner Countryman at the moment. Stopped at the local Acura dealer. 

They had the last of the Saab 9-5's in the used car section. 48k miles and a $13k price tag. 

Plus an '06 IS250 AWD with 114k on it. Asking $12k, but it was that awful metallic pea soup green color. Ick. 

tifighter

Those 9-5's are nice looking cars. That is all I have to add.

stickguy

Local guy to me has a nice 2015 Jetta SE. 1.8, navi and moonroof. 16k miles, asking $13,900. Lot of car for the money. Would have been great to buy for my princess instead of leasing.

ab348

Was out cruising the lots today just because the sun was shining and it was Canada Day so everything is closed.

Car that impressed me the most, as in if I had enough money to not worry about it and a place to park it under cover, was a new Shelby GT350 Mustang, red with black over-the top stripes that had a white outline. Just an arresting (!) car that really looked good. $76K Cdn. The dealer actually had 3 of them, one in yellow with the same black/white stripe that was also pretty attention-getting, and one in black that didn't do so much for me. Parked in the middle of them was a car that I could actually see myself in, a new '16 Mustang GT in the Guard dark green-gray color, with a saddle bronze leather interior. $46K sticker in Cdn$. Nice combo, and that color paint is going away next year I hear.

The GM dealers had a few new Camaros but nothing that really jumped out at me. I just don't find that design particularly appealing. To my surprise, lots of new Caddys on the lots, mostly ATS models like mine. There was one that was a "Midnight" edition, a $950 option that blacks out all the bright trim on the outside and adds black wheels, which I normally hate, but thought looked good on this car which was in dark gray paint that went well with the black. Of the 15 or so ATS cars I saw, all but one of them had a black interior. I just don't get it.

Two used cars I saw were interesting: an '11 Shelby, 7200 miles, for $48K Cdn, silver with black stripes. Also, a '15 Challenger R/T, red w. white side stripe, about the same mileage, for $36K Cdn. I liked that only because they are quite uncommon for these parts. That one was at a BMW dealer. Wonder what the owner traded it in for?

sda

Happy Canada day, enjoy! After ab348 sharing that there is a 15% tax on the purchase price of a car I am surprised that expensive cars are even considered to be purchased. The local Cadillac dealer has cut back on their ATS/CTS inventory. Perhaps it is just because it is close to the model year end or they aren't selling well. I've seen a few XT5s (not sure that is correct), the SRX replacement. They look sharp.

breld

Mr_Shiftright said:

kyfdx said:

stickguy said:

if the clutch is shot and needs some shifter work, that could certainly get pricey quick, so your bargain buy might not stay that way. Unless of course, that is just the way they are.

Yeah.. it's hard to know which, and I'm not willing to pay to find out.

That's a $2000 repair job, east. And we don't know if the clutch replacement will cure the shifter notchiness.

This was a while ago, but I test drove the '03 9-3 when they first came out. That's exactly when I realized that not all manuals were created equal. The shifting was "rubbery" and I found it difficult to exactly locate the gears at times. I ended up with the newly released TSX instead.

So...it's cool that Saab offered the manual, but not so sure I'd care for it.

breld

stickguy said:

Local guy to me has a nice 2015 Jetta SE. 1.8, navi and moonroof. 16k miles, asking $13,900. Lot of car for the money. Would have been great to buy for my princess instead of leasing.

Wow - that is a great deal. That's just a little more than the residual on the stepdaughter's Sport model.

Could be a great car for @michaell, huh?

stickguy

Was thinking just that. If he wants to come to NJ to get it.

Michaell

stickguy said:

Was thinking just that. If he wants to come to NJ to get it.

Agreed, a lot of car for the money.

So it would have 18,000 miles when I got it back to CO. :laughing:

Would make a heck of a road trip, though.

Mr_Shiftright

It's easier on the back of a flatbed.

cdnpinhead

Yeah, but much less fun. I enjoy driving more than I do owning or looking at the car, but that's just me. I find non-Interstate roads when I have the time and take much pleasure in seeing part of the country I haven't before (though that's become difficult) at my own pace while avoiding the traffic.

I find that the people who collect cars or treat them as art objects look at things entirely differently than I do.

stickguy

Michael, someone just bought the A4 stickshift out on long island. That was a good 100+ miles further out! And he drove it home to Colorado.

roadburner

ab348 said:

Two used cars I saw were interesting: an '11 Shelby, 7200 miles, for $48K Cdn, silver with black stripes. Also, a '15 Challenger R/T, red w. white side stripe, about the same mileage, for $36K Cdn. I liked that only because they are quite uncommon for these parts. That one was at a BMW dealer. Wonder what the owner traded it in for?

We just took a very clean 2010 Corvette(with 33k miles) in trade for a loaded 2016 X1- it's going to be a gift for the owner's 16 year old daughter...

nyccarguy

What did they give the guy for it? What are they asking for it?

houdini1

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

Was thinking just that. If he wants to come to NJ to get it.

Agreed, a lot of car for the money.

So it would have 18,000 miles when I got it back to CO. :laughing:

Would make a heck of a road trip, though.

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

Was thinking just that. If he wants to come to NJ to get it.

Agreed, a lot of car for the money.

So it would have 18,000 miles when I got it back to CO. :laughing:

Would make a heck of a road trip, though.

When you get that job offer, ask what you get to pick as a company car!

Mr_Shiftright

cdnpinhead said:

Yeah, but much less fun. I enjoy driving more than I do owning or looking at the car, but that's just me. I find non-Interstate roads when I have the time and take much pleasure in seeing part of the country I haven't before (though that's become difficult) at my own pace while avoiding the traffic.

I find that the people who collect cars or treat them as art objects look at things entirely differently than I do.

Yeah I get it but there are parts of the country that aren't much fun to drive through-----well, I guess it depends on how you do it and what you run into. Every place is, I suppose, interesting to the curious mind. But I still recall how the plains of Nebraska seemed as endless as the Russian steppes on the road to Stalingrad.

Might be way more fun in a very old car taking two lanes roads and a whole lotta time to do it.

breld

Okay - so I am reading with great interest the proposed buyback program for VW TDIs.

What are the chances I can go right now and buy a used Golf Sportwagen TDI, drive it around for as long as I'm interested, and then have VW buy it back when I'm done (assuming it's before June 30, 2019 - I think that's the date that the buyback has to occur by)?

So far, my understanding is the VW will buy back the cars at the September 2015 NADA value from an "Eligible Owner." On top of that, owners will receive a cash settlement. I'm pretty sure if you purchase the car now, you're an Eligible Owner. The cash settlement, however, is basically split between the previous owner and the current owner.

Still...I'm not looking to make money on the deal. But if I could own and drive a TDI model that I like anyway for virtually no cost over, let's say, the next year, my interest is kinda piqued.

For instance, a local dealership has 2 used Golf wagons for sale for $23k; both have low miles. The released schedule of the buyback shows $25,771 for that wagon, plus the cash settlement of $6,784 (of which a new owner would presumably get half).

What am I missing?

stickguy

I thought that anyone buying now would not get anything, since the situation was known, and in theory, you are getting the car at a discount, which is the reason the people who owned when the fan was hit are getting money.

stickguy

so, I was noodling about getting something used/cheaper when my car goes back. But I have now realized that means deciding what to get, actually finding it, and dealing with old car issues. and, shaking as I type this, wading into CL again!

might not be the best idea after all. I suppose if I am going with a cheap option, a screamer lease might be better (like the $185/mo Civic Si I passed on last summer).

Oh, Michael, I was at the Hyundai dealer today, getting some touch up paint. Looked at some stickers. Had a bunch of Elantra SEs with the pop package, so sticker right about $20,600. That is a well equipped car (android auto AND Apple car play) for the money. I bet that leases out pretty cheap, especially with loyalty and lease cash! Could be a viable option for me next year.

corvette

breld said:

What am I missing?

Haven't followed it that closely. Some were saying that the buyback price already includes the cash settlement. So you might only get $25,771 less some portion of $6,784 as the buyback price. Still might be worth it if you can get the car bought back three years later.

I'd be onboard to buy one if the buyback would make me money.

kyfdx

I made my fortune in the TDI arbitrage game...

breld

Okay, reading through the settlement documents, the amounts I stated above are distinct - so for a Golf Wagon "S" model, the buyback is $25,771, and the $6,784 is the compensation if you elect to have the emissions fix.

Still, if you could buy a used model for $25k or less, you presumably could have VW buy it back for about the same amount.

The definition for "Eligible Owners" specifically includes those purchasing a vehicle after June 28th, and even says someone who sells the vehicle after June 28th ceases to be an Eligible Owner. I suppose VW has to buy the car back, and it doesn't care who it buys it back from. It's really to the seller's detriment if they sell the car for less than the buyback amount.

breld

Alright - so after reading through the settlement document, I think there are basically three categories of owners and one seller:

1. Those who bought the car pre-scandal (9/18/15) and still own it. That's easy - you can either elect the buyback ($25,771 on the Golf Wagon example) or have it fixed and get the restitution amount ($6,784).
   
2. Those who sold the vehicle between 9/18/15 and 6/28/16 may claim 50% of the restitution amount.
   
3. Those who bought the vehicle between 9/18/15 and 6/28/16 may elect the buyback or emissions fix/restitution, which will be reduced by 50% of the restitution amount. To the extent the sellers did not claim their seller restitution, that will be added to the new owners' compensation.
   
4. Those who buy a vehicle after 6/28/15 - I think the concept on this is that any seller is aware of the settlement terms, and if they choose to sell the car, they forfeit their rights and the buyer is now eligible.
   

I think the trick at this point would be to find someone who is willing to sell a TDI now, as opposed to taking the seemingly easier (and probably more profitable) way out.

breld

If you have a loan on an eligible VW, as part of the buyback program, VW will pay off your loan even if you're upside down, up to 130% of the entitled value of the car.

Is that crazy or what?