Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

breld

Executive Summary:

VW Court Settlement

Michaell

@stickguy - I did stop at a different Hyundai dealer today, as well. Saw the car you were describing - SE with PEP for $20.6K. You're right, a lot of car for the money, but I'd still like the Tech package as well, if I were to go that route.

So, to catch everybody up. Got an email from the recruiter (internal, works for the company) early Thursday morning - can we set up a time to talk?

We connect via phone, and he asks me the same questions again - what's my level of interest in their position? where do I stand with any potential offers from other companies?

Cut to the chase - everyone I've talked to is impressed with me, and they want to send me an offer letter. However, it takes 5 levels of approvals before it can be sent, and these approvals normally take 1-3 days to obtain. So, he's hoping to have everything done by close of business Friday. The company is taking the 5th off as well, so if not done by Friday, it will be next Wednesday.

We talk salary expectations, and I'm not disappointed in what we discuss. I had a few other general questions for him, and we sign off. Oh, and we talked about potential start dates (7/18 or 7/25, at the discretion of the hiring manager).

Today about 3:30 he emails me again - not gonna get all the approvals by the end of the day, so expect something on Wednesday.

So, conditional good news, though I doubt there will be any 'deal breakers' in what they send me.

I immediately booked a flight to CA next weekend to visit my mom and my son, since I suspect I won't have much free time after I get started.

Sorry, @kyfdx - another weekend of moderator duties alone.

Net of all this:

-- I continue to work from home for the time being, though regular but infrequent trips to CA may be necessary. My new boss, who lives in the same town as I do, goes to CA every other week. They are building up the staff at the office here in Denver, but it's on the "right" side of town, so the commute is maybe 20-30 minutes should they ever require me to start going there.

-- I suspect that the work load will cause me to 'retire' from my pizza delivery job - I may try to fit in one or two shifts a week, depending on my availability.

-- From a transportation perspective, I guess I'll need to see what a typical paycheck looks like (though it will be 90 days before I can begin contributing to the 401(k)), then determine a car budget from there. I'll hang on to the E-GT until I can get a better sense of what I can afford. Sadly, that means the miles continue to pile up, at .20 per.

@breld, that doesn't mean we can't go shopping, as discussed off-line.

I'm still considering an inexpensive lease, or perhaps a purchase of something with low miles but a bit fancier (hence, my appearance at the Acura dealer today). Depends on the budget.

breld

@Michaell - congrats! I know you'll feel better once everything is final, but seems things are heading that way!

And yes, we will definitely get some shopping in!

28firefighter

@Michaell this is most excellent news - of course I'll save my official congratulations until they've put pen to paper.

Good luck!

jpp75

@Michaell that's great news, hoping things pan out next week!

kyfdx

@michaell That's awesome.

corvette

Great news, michaell! If you quit the pizza delivery job and mostly work from home, it sounds like not many more miles will pile up on the Elantra.

Michaell

corvette said:

Great news, michaell! If you quit the pizza delivery job and mostly work from home, it sounds like not many more miles will pile up on the Elantra.

That's what I'm hoping will be the case. Other than general errand running and trips to the airport.

I was working some extra pizza shifts in June. For the first time, I earned over $1000 in tip money for the month. But, I had to drive over 1100 miles to earn that money.

breld

So, you were still over $0.80 better per mile last month.

Michaell

breld said:

So, you were still over $0.80 better per mile last month.

Yeah, one of the many metrics I track for my delivery is how much I earn for each mile I drive; I started when I got the E-GT. I earned about .89/mile in June, and my fuel costs are about .10-.12 per mile.

breld

So tempted to go look at this and see it it's available.

2015 Golf TDI SEL

So, $22,981 to buy it. Proposed buyback is $29,546.

stickguy

I still can't see how that would work. Seems like the dealers would figure out a way to make that profit!

ken117

You gotta love car dealers. So many still do not grasp the modern internet car shopping method. I have been looking at a new BMW this weekend. Every dealer in the DC area has responded to my price inquiries in the same way.

I use their web site to ask for a price, clicking the link on their web site for a price. Every time the response I get is "we got your inquiry, please drop in to see the car." No price provided. One dealer, in Virginia, headed the response with "Here is your quote." I opened the email and, what?, no price. Just a please drop in or call to discuss price.

You would think these dealers should have learned by now, when they offer to provide a price, potential buyers actually do expect a price.

I guess I will look at Audi or MB, perhaps they will provide a price.

ab348

ken117 said:

You gotta love car dealers. So many still do not grasp the modern internet car shopping method. I have been looking at a new BMW this weekend. Every dealer in the DC area has responded to my price inquiries in the same way.

I use their web site to ask for a price, clicking the link on their web site for a price. Every time the response I get is "we got your inquiry, please drop in to see the car." No price provided. One dealer, in Virginia, headed the response with "Here is your quote." I opened the email and, what?, no price. Just a please drop in or call to discuss price.

You would think these dealers should have learned by now, when they offer to provide a price, potential buyers actually do expect a price.

I guess I will look at Audi or MB, perhaps they will provide a price.

All the dealers up here do the same thing. They absolutely will not discuss price other than MSRP and factory/dealer promotional offers over email. You have to do it face to face. Maddening.

breld

stickguy said:

I still can't see how that would work. Seems like the dealers would figure out a way to make that profit!

I know and I would tend to agree.  But it does seem if this dealership is willing to sell me the car, then I obviously become the eligible owner.  It's not like VW doesn't have to buy it back still.  

as a dealership, I could see where they don't want to wait until November, at the earliest, to get the buyback.  

In any case, we did just go and check out the car - nice low mile Golf TDI SEL.  For just under $23k.  

Tempted.

Mr_Shiftright

breld said:

stickguy said:

I still can't see how that would work. Seems like the dealers would figure out a way to make that profit!

I know and I would tend to agree.  But it does seem if this dealership is willing to sell me the car, then I obviously become the eligible owner.  It's not like VW doesn't have to buy it back still.  

as a dealership, I could see where they don't want to wait until November, at the earliest, to get the buyback.  

In any case, we did just go and check out the car - nice low mile Golf TDI SEL.  For just under $23k.  

Tempted.

From my understanding, if you buy the car now, you might expect a lower offer from VW in the future.

stickguy

there are dealers that will E quote the way you want, but obviously not all of them. still, not a big deal to me. You still have to go into the dealership eventually.

I am always more interested in the car, and picking the one that is best for me. Makes no sense IMO to settle for 2nd choice, just because I had to walk in person to get "the number".

corvette

breld, didn't VW agree to pay clean retail for all of the buyback vehicles? Would it be possible to buy one that looked really rough, bad Carfax (but no salvage title), etc., very cheaply, then get it bought back (now or in 2019)?

breld

The buyback is supposed to represent NADA values at September 2015 before the scandal went public. Added to that is a restitution amount that, if memory serves, is something like 20% of that value, plus a certain dollar amount (basically $5-10k depending on the car).

You then back off 1,042 miles per month from your current mileage to get back to September 2015, and then make an adjustment for mileage, if any.

Since the point is to get the value retroactive back to September 2015, my guess is they're not gonna be too picky on condition. Further, chances are they're scrapping all the cars for salvage value anyway.

corvette

I'm going to have to read the settlement document. I've found a recalled vehicle that should net close to $10k after buyback and several in the $5k+ range. Did you recall seeing a limit on how many eligible vehicles one person could have bought back?

ab348

Didn't someone already post that you had to be the registered owner as of June 28 to qualify for the VW settlement?

Michaell

I know out of household punches don't count, but found out my step-son just bought this:



2012 F250 3/4 ton 4x4. 86,000 miles (!) for $16k. Plans to use it as a work truck and start his own handyman business.

corvette

Dang, that's a big old truck! Probably wouldn't fit in my garage. Seems like a good price, although I don't regularly track prices on HD trucks. Good luck to your stepson with the handyman business. There seems to be plenty of demand for that type of work.

Michaell

corvette said:

Dang, that's a big old truck! Probably wouldn't fit in my garage. Seems like a good price, although I don't regularly track prices on HD trucks. Good luck to your stepson with the handyman business. There seems to be plenty of demand for that type of work.

He got tired of working for other people.

Edmunds showed the truck at $17-18k, so I think he did fine.

breld

ab348 said:

Didn't someone already post that you had to be the registered owner as of June 28 to qualify for the VW settlement?

I'm trying to figure that and other questions out for sure, but the definition of eligible owners specifically states that those who purchase a vehicle after June 28th are eligible (and conversely, those who sell the car after that date cease to be eligible).

Drove the golf and was impressed at the handling and power - sort of a GTI light.  A little hard to get too excited about black over black, but definitely like the SEL trim.  

corvette

I still haven't completely read the proposed settlement. One concern I have is that it may be tweaked before final approval.

stickguy

In the apple not falling far from the tree category, he texted today to ask what I knew about the Infiniti Q50s. Seems to have caught his eye, and the specs sounded similar to the S3.

His lease ends in February.

ab348

The neighbor up the street who was selling the 1970 C10 pickup reached out to me yesterday. Offered me the truck for $7500, which probably means I could have gotten it with an offer of $7K, maybe even less. I think he was not getting much interest from his ad, which surprises me. In any event I had to turn him down. In thinking about it, the parking/winter storage of it would be a huge pain for me, and I just wasn't in love with it. I favor GM products generally, especially vintage ones like that, but I know nothing about Chevy or trucks, and I just wasn't in love with it. The long box in particular was a turn-off, and it seemed to be suffering from a lot of neglect even though cosmetically it looked fine. I know from experience that having more than one collector vehicle is a huge burden as there is always something that needs doing and soon it no longer becomes fun.

It was still parked out in front of his house when I woke up this morning but is gone now, so I don't know if he took a lower offer from someone or just moved it from where he has had it on display all week.

breld

corvette said:

I still haven't completely read the proposed settlement. One concern I have is that it may be tweaked before final approval.

You're right - nothing has been approved yet. Thing is, I like the Golf TDI, so it's not like I'm trying to make such a deal work for a car I'm not interested in. I just don't want to get into a car that will likely suffer some fairly steep depreciation if not for the buyback.

At the end of the day, VW still has to either get the car off the road or provide an EPA approved fix. And, there are significant penalties to them if they don't get the majority of the cars off the road or fixed by certain dates. That's one reason they are providing such incentives to get owners in the door. So fact is, whoever the owner is of a car during the claim period, regardless of how/when they became an owner, that owner will be incentivized to give up their car.

Best thing to do will be to wait until July 26th, when the deal should be finalized/approved and you can likely get specifics on your individual buyout. At that point, the likelihood of finding a TDI to buy will be minimal I suspect, but if there is an opportunity, at least the circumstances of the buyback will be certain.

breld

stickguy said:

In the apple not falling far from the tree category, he texted today to ask what I knew about the Infiniti Q50s. Seems to have caught his eye, and the specs sounded similar to the S3.

His lease ends in February.

My stepdaughter loves Infinitis, but to me, they always seem too "grown-up" for a young person.

Certainly very different cars, the S3 and Q50, but good buys out there on the Q50s.

breld

corvette said:

I still haven't completely read the proposed settlement. One concern I have is that it may be tweaked before final approval.

More thoughts.

Right now, about the only thing mentioned in the settlement documents is that owners who purchased a vehicle after September 18, 2015 will receive a "lesser amount" than those stated on the current documents.

I believe that refers to the fact that you would have to share the restitution amount (not the buyback amount) with an "eligible seller" - the owner of the car at September 18th.

Those eligible sellers will have 45 days after approval of the settlement to make their claim (which is simply 50% of the restitution amount). After that 45 days, to the extent those eligible sellers did not make a claim (as a pool), that amount "left over" is included in the restitution to the new owner. So...if 80% of all eligible sellers make the claim, then the new owners will actually receive 20% of the 50% of the restitution (on top of their original 50% share). Basically, VW will be paying out all the money set aside for each car one way or the other.

That is why the amount is uncertain and not stated yet. So at a minimum, you'll get the buyback (NADA Trade at September 18, 2015), plus 50% of the restitution amount (minimum of $2,650, depending on model of car). That's my contention anyway, not that anyone asked.

breld

ab348 said:

Didn't someone already post that you had to be the registered owner as of June 28 to qualify for the VW settlement?

Here's the definition of the settlement "class"

“Class” means, for purposes of this Class Action Settlement only, a nationwide class of all persons (including individuals and entities) who, on September 18, 2015, were registered owners or lessees of a Volkswagen or Audi 2.0-liter TDI vehicle in the United States orits territories (an “Eligible Vehicle,” defined more fully in Section 2.33), or who, between September 18, 2015, and the end of the Claim Period, become a registered owner of an Eligible Vehicle.

Specific exclusions are listed as 1) those who buy the vehicle after September 18 and transfer title before participating in the buyback, 2) lessors who did not lease from VW Credit, 3) owners of a vehicle that was inoperable at June 28, 2016, or has a branded title and purchased from a salvage or junkyard after September 18, 2015, 4) Those who sell their vehicle between June 28, 2016 and September 16, 2016, and 5) certain employees and affiliates of VW.

breld

One thing that I'm curious about is this:

"Eligible Vehicle" includes this stipulation:

“Eligible Vehicle” means...(2) registered with a state Department of Motor Vehicles or equivalent agency or held by bill of sale by a non-Volkswagen Dealer in the United States or its territories as of June 28, 2016.

I believe that simply means it is a used car - that it was registered or in the inventory of a NON-VW dealer.

breld

Kinda like this one too:

2014 Jetta Wagon TDI

Priced below the "base value" of the buyback (before any share of restitution).

breld

By the way, sorry for hijacking the thread somewhat on the VW matter. I find it incredibly interesting as a car enthusiast. And since I like VWs, I'm naturally curious as to how to "take advantage" of the situation as it were. Feel like I already did once this year on the good deal on the Jetta Sport (even though it wasn't even a TDI).

Now, if I can find a TDI model I really like, would be great to drive it for awhile with no depreciation. Not really looking to profit from it necessarily - sort of like leasing a car with a guaranteed residual equal to or greater than the original price!

kyfdx

I'll guess that if you don't own the car by June 28th, then you won't be part of the settlement.

breld

Because after June 28th, you are fully aware of the issue and presumably purchased it at an appropriate fair value?

Well, that certainly makes sense. But regardless, VW still has to address the issue with the car, right? I would guess worst case would be if they come up with a fix, they fix your car at no cost with no compensation.

But, I still think VW will be outright required to pay out the stated amount for every car out there, and the registered owner as of the claim will be the beneficiary (unless of course the settlement was previously paid out already).

Real question is - am I willing to put my money where my mouth is!

kyfdx

breld said:

Because after June 28th, you are fully aware of the issue and presumably purchased it at an appropriate fair value?

Well, that certainly makes sense. But regardless, VW still has to address the issue with the car, right? I would guess worst case would be if they come up with a fix, they fix your car at no cost with no compensation.

Yes. I'm not sure I want a "fixed" one, though.

breld

kyfdx said:

breld said:

Because after June 28th, you are fully aware of the issue and presumably purchased it at an appropriate fair value?

Well, that certainly makes sense. But regardless, VW still has to address the issue with the car, right? I would guess worst case would be if they come up with a fix, they fix your car at no cost with no compensation.

Yes. I'm not sure I want a "fixed" one, though.

Agreed.

corvette

Assuming, for a minute, you could buy a TDI today and still be eligible for some sort of buyback benefit:
1. Acquire TDIs.
2. Rent them out to Uber / Lyft drivers on a weekly basis.
3. Sell them back to VW in late 2018.
4. Profit!

ab348

I can see the financial arbitrageur sharpies buying up fleets of TDIs just to make a quick buck from selling them back to VW. I don't see the settlement as allowing that to happen.

corvette

This Passat looks like it has a fair asking price, given that there is an accident on the Carfax. Looks like the owner actually had the DSG serviced at 40k (and it was also reported to Carfax). It has the nicer 18" wheels, but the paint color is kind of meh (same color as my former GLI).

breld

I actually like that color on the Passat, and yes, those wheels
male a big difference in the look of the car.  

I don't know - I get the skepticism.  But VW is in a position where they just want to pay the money out and be done.  And regardless of when a current owner bought the car, they have to address the issue. 

Not sure I'm confident enough to make a move though until there's a but clearer definition on how "late" buyers will be treated. 

breld

ab348 said:

I can see the financial arbitrageur sharpies buying up fleets of TDIs just to make a quick buck from selling them back to VW. I don't see the settlement as allowing that to happen.

I'm not so sure - the settlement has no sympathy for VW,  and overall seems to be making an example of VW.  

VW has to escrow the funds away for full payout for each affected car.  I doubt anyone cares if that payment goes to a "traditional" owner or not.  

Sandman6472

I prefer the "SEL" model to my "SE" but at the time, couldn't find one in my local area. Not sure if the "SEL" even has the rear anti sway bar that I am so interested in. Hit 19,500 on the way to dinner tonight, and all is well. Hopefully, I'll have it for a few more years and then see where the mileage is once I retire from my Hertz gig. After that, my mileage should go down substancially.

Have driven a few Q50's at work and they are great with the 2.0T engines. Hit the accelerator and whooosh, down the pike. Comfortable seats also but a bit on the thirsty side, one must keep that in mind...something about all Infiniti's I've read and heard.

The Sandman

ab348

The '70 C10 is back in front of the neighbor's house tonight, so no sale. If he emails me tomorrow with a lowball price I dunno what I will do.

stickguy

Ab, if you really don't want it, just say no. All the reasons you are passing at $7,500, will still be there at $6,000.

stickguy

so, was washing the RDX today, and somehow came up that it was "her" car, but she said it was "our" car. So I said that means I can sell it? which led to a response of only if we both agree. So I parlayed that into mentioning my concept of selling it next year and replacing both cars. She seemed to think that was not a good plan, unless "I can get an MDX instead". She really is still fixated, after 4 years, on thinking we need a bigger utility vehicle!

so, we shall see.

jpp75

stickguy said:

In the apple not falling far from the tree category, he texted today to ask what I knew about the Infiniti Q50s. Seems to have caught his eye, and the specs sounded similar to the S3.

His lease ends in February.

We had a Q50 Hybrid for about 2 1/2 years, in fact I noticed it's still my profile picture... probably should update that since we sold it earlier this year.

The Q50 is a "good" car but nothing special. I haven't driven the 2.0t so it may be worth a look, the hybrid was fun, had that extra boost of torque when you needed it but was a bit better on gas but as always not worth the price premium unless you really wanted the extra power.

I had the 3.7 a few times for a loaner, I liked it but at the end of the day preferred the hybrid as it was thirsty and didn't really love the way it sounded.

Once the novelty of the hybrid powertrain wore off I never really loved the car. Here's my good and bad:

Good:
-- I really loved the styling (personal preference of course)
-- The interior was functional and well laid out
-- Comfortable front seats
-- Great transmission

Bad:
-- A bit of a soft ride (we didn't have the S model but not sure how much that makes a difference)
-- A bit tight on interior space for how large it was on the outside
-- Never loved the way it drove, the steer by wire was OK but I think some models have gone back to the traditional setup since the first models but even with the configurable settings I never could get the "feel" I wanted
-- Massive depreciation so I'd recommend a lease if this is really what he wants

Overall, it's been summed up here before by saying "It seems as if Infiniti couldn't decide if they wanted luxury or sport and ended up with neither." If I had it to do over again I would have kept the G37x that preceded the Q50, it was by far the better of the two cars.

breld

Interesting that you preferred the G37x over the Q50 - that, combined with the massive depreciation you mention, makes those G37s great used car buys, no? I know they are often brought up by several on the forum here as attractive buys.

I don't know, maybe one of my fellow Coloradans here will end up in one!