Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

corvette

I use the steering wheel volume controls 99% of the time and it's annoying when I drive a car without them or where they have a different layout than what I'm used to. On the newer VWs I've had, I use them 100% of the time, as the volume knob had an "on/off" icon on it that would become misaligned if you turned the knob on the radio.

suydam

qbrozen said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

ADVICE FOR A FRIEND:

My buddy is getting his 2011 Jetta TDI Wagon bought back from VW for $17,000 which is a hell of a good price.

He's ask me to advise him whether to take the money or have VW fix the car (he loves the car) and I told him to take the money because who knows what VW might come up with as a 'fix'.

He then asked what other car he could buy that might closely replicate what he says without spending too much more money.

I of course suggested the Golf Sportwagon TSI. Given that he like a manual transmission and the driving dynamics of the Jetta, I didn't recommend other wagons such as the Outback, and he's not so keen on compact SUVs

So....am I missing anything here except maybe a low miles CPO Volvo wagon?

Check out the Honda Fit, too. Not as nice, but cheaper and more tossable.

Mazda 3?

kyfdx

corvette said:

I use the steering wheel volume controls 99% of the time and it's annoying when I drive a car without them or where they have a different layout than what I'm used to. On the newer VWs I've had, I use them 100% of the time, as the volume knob had an "on/off" icon on it that would become misaligned if you turned the knob on the radio.

In my 3-Series, I almost never use the wheel control. Always reach for the knob.

But, the Audi TDI has a scroll wheel for the volume, on the right spoke of the wheel, that you can reach easily with your thumb. I love that one..

kyfdx

But, besides the scroll wheel, it's also an automatic vs. a stick in the BMW, so that might have something to do with it, as well. (since, I'm used to taking my right hand off the wheel, to shift).

breld

I like that scroll wheel too, but wish it was on the other side. Even with out stick, I often have my left hand on the wheel and the other arm resting.

It's the little things

stickguy

my Sonata is well designed. The volume and channel selectors on the wheel are little toggles. nudge up or down. super easy to find and use without looking at them, or moving your hands from the normal spot holding the wheel. I think it is just a quick flick of the thumb, and good to go

stickguy

so, noodling over a new plan for next year. After watching that Audi training video, it is clear that VWOA plans to fix and resell all these buyback units (with I assume some exceptions, if there are certain models that can't be re-mediated. So, depending on volume, there could be a lot flooding the market, and complete wildcard as to how big demand is, or what prices will be supported. So, if the stars align, maybe there will be a nice supply of bargain priced, fully legal, probably with a lot of extra warranty, TDIs out there to pick from.

or the timing will be all wrong, and I will miss out again!

kyfdx

All assuming they get a fix approved. Which still hasn't happened, yet.

stickguy

I am assuming that is close and expected. that video had a lot of details, including the labels, and even a shot of the specific parts. But of course, if the feds (or carb) won't sign off, they won't be reselling all those cars in this country;

I really hope they get it all approved, so the people that want to keep them can, and they can get the rest back in circulation. Seems like a huge waste to have to just scrap all those cars.

roadburner

28firefighter said:

@jpp5862 - This was their regional quality technical manager that said that! The dealer even agreed with me that something wasn't right, but then things got quiet after VW Corporate told them to stop all work on the issue. The Regional QTM is apparently the last word on these issues and they won't act further unless he approves it.

To some extent this is why I'd rather have an Attorney involved. Corporate won't let me escalate further beyond the QTM, so hopefully an Attorney will get more action.

Wow, as I've said before, your ordeal reinforces my opinion that my decision to pass on a new Golf R ended up being a tremendous blessing...

toomanyfumes

Our Lincoln MKX has the touchscreen and no knob for the radio or climate control at all. I've gotten pretty good at controlling everything with the steering wheel controls or voice commands for the navigation or phone. I test drove a Fusion Titanium the other day, the wheel controls were the same, so it felt natural.

Was looking for a possible replacement for the Mustang, but what they offered me In trade made it a no deal. I know it's a bad time of year to sell a Mustang, I'll just put the winter wheels and tires on and maybe look for something in the spring.

tjc78

Voice commands in our Enclave are sketchy at best. I usually just pull over and enter the address by hand.

Sandman6472

Use my steering wheel controls much of the time but I want both, that and knobs...just feels natural to me. Like I said, haven't driven the HR-V so can not give an opinion on how it drives. But as of now, will keep looking but will stay the course. Trust me, I could be driving something so much worse. Just wanted something a bit more lux and truthfully, should've just gotten a 2014 Tiguan SE three years ago and all would've been good. It's still one of my favorite cuv's along with the Buick Encore, again something I did consider back in 2013. The new 2017 model does look pretty cool!

The Sandman

graphicguy

tjc78 said:

Voice commands in our Enclave are sketchy at best. I usually just pull over and enter the address by hand.

I use a lot of steering wheel controls for the audio system volume in the CTS. HVAC has been a set it and forget it affair. Set the temp, hit the "Auto" button, and I can't think of a time when I've "fiddled" with it since then. I do use the seat heaters/coolers button quite a bit, though.

Apple Car Play is a godsend. The CUE voice recognition and GPS systems are, at best, kludgy. Apple's voice recognition and maps is far superior to the same functions via CUE. And, they display through the CUE screen, which makes it even better.

Even playing the iPhone's music I have stored is as easy as pressing a button, waiting for the tone and saying "play genre Death Metal", and voila, I have ear splitting sounds coming through my stereo.

kyfdx

Member needs opinions. I'm assuming we have plenty to spare?

http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/43475/audi/a4/buying-a-used-audi-can-i-get-an-opinion/p1?new=1

sda

graphicguy said:

tjc78 said:

Voice commands in our Enclave are sketchy at best. I usually just pull over and enter the address by hand.

I use a lot of steering wheel controls for the audio system volume in the CTS. HVAC has been a set it and forget it affair. Set the temp, hit the "Auto" button, and I can't think of a time when I've "fiddled" with it since then. I do use the seat heaters/coolers button quite a bit, though.

Apple Car Play is a godsend. The CUE voice recognition and GPS systems are, at best, kludgy. Apple's voice recognition and maps is far superior to the same functions via CUE. And, they display through the CUE screen, which makes it even better.

Even playing the iPhone's music I have stored is as easy as pressing a button, waiting for the tone and saying "play genre Death Metal", and voila, I have ear splitting sounds coming through my stereo.

How does the Bose stereo sound in your CTS? I always appreciate good audio that can play loudly, has good bass, depth and sounds rich even at low volume. I don't care for what I call 'shish-boom' sound. It may play loud, doesn't have any depth, boomy bass, shrill highs--an assault to the ears and very tiresome to listen to. The Accord and Pilot have ok audio, but lack depth and rich sound. The best audio I've had was the Dynaudio that was a $1000 option in my '06 Passat. That system spoiled me.

roadburner

The voice recognition system works pretty well in the 2er and i3; you can also enter information on the touchpad of the iDrive controller. I used that this morning and I was able to enter a destination without taking my eyes off the road.

ab348

kyfdx said:

All assuming they get a fix approved. Which still hasn't happened, yet.

And assuming the fix gives performance, economy, and driveability somewhere close to the illegal cheater version. Which I somehow doubt.

sda

From what I've read it looks like VW will no longer offer new diesels for the US market. It will be interesting to see how they market the 'fixed' used diesels, if that does happen.

tjc78

@sda Bose seems to be really hit or miss in cars from my experience. We have the Bose in our Enclave and I'm not thrilled. Plays pretty loud and clean, but something is lacking. Bass isn't all that great and the sub has an odd placement behind the dash. I've heard other Bose systems (Nissan for example) and they have been better balanced.

I've always preferred Harman sourced systems. JBL, Lexicon (had in my Genesis), and Harman Kardon. My wife always says she misses the Harman Kardon that we had in the LaCrosse it was really good.

RE: Apple Car Play / Android Auto. Is this a must have these days? If the car doesn't have factory NAV you can use something like the WAZE app directly on the screen in the car right? I think I've also read that you have plug the phone into the USB for that? Can you still just stream Pandora or music on your phone via Bluetooth?

Thanks

qbrozen

Only the Waze audio will play through the system. It is no different than if you stream audio to your stereo through Bluetooth, so Carplay isn't even needed.

jpp75

roadburner said:

Wow, as I've said before, your ordeal reinforces my opinion that my decision to pass on a new Golf R ended up being a tremendous blessing...

Sad but probably true. I called yesterday morning and talked to my service advisor. I told him the issue was still there and asked if I could come drive a new one to ensure this wasn't "normal" he said that sounded good and he would discuss internally and get back to me as soon as possible. I still haven't heard back from him on what seems like a simple request. I'm not asking to take a new car for a few days, just a 10 - 15 minute drive with one of their techs to see if it performs the same as mine.

If I didn't love the Touareg so much I'd already be looking to get out of the lease.

28firefighter

jpp5862 said:

roadburner said:

Wow, as I've said before, your ordeal reinforces my opinion that my decision to pass on a new Golf R ended up being a tremendous blessing...

Sad but probably true. I called yesterday morning and talked to my service advisor. I told him the issue was still there and asked if I could come drive a new one to ensure this wasn't "normal" he said that sounded good and he would discuss internally and get back to me as soon as possible. I still haven't heard back from him on what seems like a simple request. I'm not asking to take a new car for a few days, just a 10 - 15 minute drive with one of their techs to see if it performs the same as mine.

If I didn't love the Touareg so much I'd already be looking to get out of the lease.

I have two problems:
(1) I refuse to take a loss on the car because I had zero intention of getting rid of it before 3 years.

(2) I honestly don't know what I could replace it with that is that utilitarian and fun to drive for what I paid for it ($24k new).

graphicguy

sda said:

graphicguy said:

tjc78 said:

Voice commands in our Enclave are sketchy at best. I usually just pull over and enter the address by hand.

I use a lot of steering wheel controls for the audio system volume in the CTS. HVAC has been a set it and forget it affair. Set the temp, hit the "Auto" button, and I can't think of a time when I've "fiddled" with it since then. I do use the seat heaters/coolers button quite a bit, though.

Apple Car Play is a godsend. The CUE voice recognition and GPS systems are, at best, kludgy. Apple's voice recognition and maps is far superior to the same functions via CUE. And, they display through the CUE screen, which makes it even better.

Even playing the iPhone's music I have stored is as easy as pressing a button, waiting for the tone and saying "play genre Death Metal", and voila, I have ear splitting sounds coming through my stereo.

How does the Bose stereo sound in your CTS? I always appreciate good audio that can play loudly, has good bass, depth and sounds rich even at low volume. I don't care for what I call 'shish-boom' sound. It may play loud, doesn't have any depth, boomy bass, shrill highs--an assault to the ears and very tiresome to listen to. The Accord and Pilot have ok audio, but lack depth and rich sound. The best audio I've had was the Dynaudio that was a $1000 option in my '06 Passat. That system spoiled me.

SDA....I'm pleased with the stereo on my CTS. It still can't match the best I've heard in a car (Acura ELS). But, it's not far behind. I think GM puts different levels of Bose systems in their vehicles. I had a Bose in my Tahoe, which was mediocre. The one in the CTS is quite good, though.

TJC....haven't tried Waze, but Apple Maps shows up on my CUE Nav screen. Bluetooth via audio is also possible. But, it sounds better with a USB connection.

jpp75

28firefighter said:

I have two problems:
(1) I refuse to take a loss on the car because I had zero intention of getting rid of it before 3 years.

(2) I honestly don't know what I could replace it with that is that utilitarian and fun to drive for what I paid for it ($24k new).

I wouldn't take a loss either, in fact I would be open to buying the Touareg at the end of the lease if they would step up and fix it.

#2 is my biggest reason for not trading out, there's nothing else I want.

stickguy

Carplay I think is close to a must now. Especially with no factory nav. Not sure about waze (not all apps work) but you get apple maps, and it runs just like a factory system (all integrated through the headunit), but without worrying about out of date maps, and with real time traffic. I believe it also integrates your other apple apps (itunes, text) much better. Essentially turns your car into a big iphone, and Siri works too.

and yes, I believe you have to plug in for some functions instead of bluetooth, but that is not a big deal to me.

the only real worry I have is data usage, but that is largely going to be related to how much you use maps, and if you are using your phone anyway, no real change! Plus data is pretty cheap these days, certainly less than factory navigation.

I would be happy to have carplay in my next car, in place of the factory nav. But both would still be cool (since I would normally not plug my phone in, and having a map up all the time in kinda nice)

stickguy

poking around looking (as always). Thinking that if I was buying now, for the money, something like this could be a nice option. Pretty cheap, certainly useful, and I don't put a lot of miles on a car these days. I don't think this one has the optional backup camera, which could be a problem. though I guess you can add those if you really want to.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2010-mazda-cx~7-awd_4dr_s_touring-used-15624427.html

andres3

suydam said:

Extended Warranty? Never bought one. If I'm unhappy with a car I'll get rid of it.

Agreed, if I'm buying a car, I'm buying one that doesn't need an extended warranty. If it needs one, chances are I won't buy it. There may come a day when I want to play the warranty game, but that day has not come yet. I'm perfectly happy with having my cake and eating it too with my Audi's.

There are always brands out there that don't need warranties. Find and seek.

andres3

sandman_6472 said:

Still not sold on getting the extended warranty at this point. The sticking point is that I'll be warrantied by the dealer and the other company for 11K miles, and also the $100.00 deductible whenever I use the warranty. Banking the funds is starting to seem like the better idea right now and see how it goes. Stick is right that my tolerance for things going wrong is low and I might just want it gone if things start going south. My guy at Tires plus thinks I should get it but my wife is against it. Even if I do continue to work past my December 2017 end date, the car should only have about 38K on it so hoping nothing major goes wrong by then. And if the wife decides to switch out of her A3 earlier than we had discussed, more ammo for me in getting something newer. And since we buy our own vehicles, it could work out o k for me. So, might just be best to not get the warranty at this time.
Opinions anyone?

The Sandman

I think you know my opinion. I couldn't imagine paying a big chunk now only to pay $100 chunks later, and that's only if things go wrong, which given that you have a gem of a car, is unlikely to happen. My biggest problem with Car Max is probably the deductible for every warranty repair.

Michaell

stickguy said:

poking around looking (as always). Thinking that if I was buying now, for the money, something like this could be a nice option. Pretty cheap, certainly useful, and I don't put a lot of miles on a car these days. I don't think this one has the optional backup camera, which could be a problem. though I guess you can add those if you really want to.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2010-mazda-cx~7-awd_4dr_s_touring-used-15624427.html

You know there is a possibility that the engine could grenade. That was why we traded out of our 2010 CX-7 and into the Outback.

andres3

corvette said:

28firefighter said:

Volkswagen got back to me and is refusing to replace the car...

My big issue is this whole fuel economy mess - VW says they'll continue to fix the car within the terms of the warranty, but is refusing to fix this particular problem.

GM did the same thing to me. It doesn't build goodwill for their brand when they dig their heels in and refuse to do what the law requires them to do in this situation. And VW desperately needs all the goodwill they can get at this point.

I think the difference is that GM couldn't afford to burn all the customers that bought lemons because they made far too many lemons (high percentage of failures in their product mix).

With VW, my guess is their lemon producing percentage is low enough that they can "afford" to burn customers that got a lemon sans bailouts. Of course, a lot of people threaten to sue, and never do. Those flaky people are what make companies think they can dig in their heels and win money. In CA, I think most attorney's will take a lemon law case for no pre-paid fee. They get their money back by winning a percentage of the winnings, only if they win of course.

andres3

stickguy said:

I don't think they take a cut from you. they tack on the fee to what the company has to pay. otherwise, would really be no benefit to you.

I see paying a lawyer $750 to avoid a traffic citation of $500 as money well spent; a great benefit. Of course, if they lost the case that would be terrible. I'd much rather pay the private sector more money than the gov't for some non-safety related violation.

ab348

andres3 said:

I think the difference is that GM couldn't afford to burn all the customers that bought lemons because they made far too many lemons (high percentage of failures in their product mix).

I'm sure you have the stats to back that up. Might be a good idea to show them.

Mr_Shiftright

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

poking around looking (as always). Thinking that if I was buying now, for the money, something like this could be a nice option. Pretty cheap, certainly useful, and I don't put a lot of miles on a car these days. I don't think this one has the optional backup camera, which could be a problem. though I guess you can add those if you really want to.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2010-mazda-cx~7-awd_4dr_s_touring-used-15624427.html

You know there is a possibility that the engine could grenade. That was why we traded out of our 2010 CX-7 and into the Outback.

Was that for a timing chain issue or some such?

sda

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

poking around looking (as always). Thinking that if I was buying now, for the money, something like this could be a nice option. Pretty cheap, certainly useful, and I don't put a lot of miles on a car these days. I don't think this one has the optional backup camera, which could be a problem. though I guess you can add those if you really want to.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2010-mazda-cx~7-awd_4dr_s_touring-used-15624427.html

You know there is a possibility that the engine could grenade. That was why we traded out of our 2010 CX-7 and into the Outback.

Was your CX-7 a turbo? I understand those were very trouble prone and the reputation followed with poor resale value.

andres3

nyccarguy said:

You guys keep fighting. It sucks because you both have cars that you really enjoy & VW corporate takes the fun out of the ownership experience.

I hope the dealerships and service department aren't expecting good CSI scores on the survey from @28firefighter

andres3

ab348 said:

andres3 said:

I think the difference is that GM couldn't afford to burn all the customers that bought lemons because they made far too many lemons (high percentage of failures in their product mix).

I'm sure you have the stats to back that up. Might be a good idea to show them.

Well, they did go bankrupt, and would have gone even more bankrupt without about 50 billion dollars in our tax money. I think that says more than enough>?

28firefighter

Something like this could work:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=98107&endYear=2014&modelCode1=X1&showcaseOwnerId=620253&makeCode1=BMW&startYear=2013&firstRecord=0&searchRadius=25&showcaseListingId=442615632&trim1=X1|xDrive35i&mmt=[BMW[X1[X1%7CxDrive35i]][]]&listingId=438143768&Log=0

kyfdx

Not a bad price, either

roadburner

stickguy said:

Carplay I think is close to a must now. Especially with no factory nav. Not sure about waze (not all apps work) but you get apple maps, and it runs just like a factory system (all integrated through the headunit), but without worrying about out of date maps, and with real time traffic. I believe it also integrates your other apple apps (itunes, text) much better. Essentially turns your car into a big iphone, and Siri works too.

Siri works in both of my newer cars; they are equipped with iDrive 4.2 and what Munich refers to as "Professional" navigation. Siri can read and send text messages in either car.

28firefighter

kyfdx said:

Not a bad price, either

The CarFax history is borked - mileage inconsistency and an accident report. I'd need to buy it for less than that price, even, to consider it.

andres3

jpp5862 said:

breld said:

@jpp5862 - I may take a look at a Q7 TDI. Based on your experience with the Touareg, is there anything in particular you'd warn me off of?

Hey @breld - The transmission shudder I'm dealing with doesn't seem to be a common issue from my search of the forums and other than this I couldn't love the car more. The only thing I would be aware of on the TDI is the AdBlue heater has been a common problem on Touaregs, not sure if it impacts Audi as well but they're pretty much the same vehicle so I'd make sure to check that out. I believe I read the other day that VW had finally extended the warranty to 10 yr/120k miles because of these issues but if you check out the Touareg forums you'll find many people had to replace them on their own dime around 50 - 70k miles which may not be an issue for you.

Other than that I have nothing but praise for the vehicle, I love the way it drives, looks and it has all the features I want.

I'm not 100% sure with VW, but with Audi they seem to always send out the extended warranties for problematic parts with a reimbursement option if you have already shelled out money for the applicable repairs. I know this works because I got a nearly $700 check from Audi (though your paperwork and back up has to be perfect), for the intake manifold debacle on MKV A3's.

henryn

Yes, VW also. I received a mailing from VW about 2 weeks ago, they are extending the warranty on the ad blue heater on my 13 Passat TDI. And the letter explained how to submit paperwork to be reimbursed if I had already had a failure and paid for it out of my pocket.

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

OK....Honda Fit and CR-V. I'll run that past them. One problem is that he's quite sour on VW right now, so maybe he would jump ship. He bought the car to be a "greenie" and to have something that would last them 200K or so. He took excellent care of it, always dealer serviced, and he kinda feels that he got screwed over.

Have him talk to @28firefighter and @graphicguy to find out what REALLY getting screwed over feels like. He has no idea what screwing means!
I can tell him about my Dodge ownership experience too. Your friend is sheltered.

henryn

On the subject of the extended warranties, back in the 80’s and 90’s I always purchased an extended factory warranty on all new car purchases.

The extended factory warranty was quite useful even when the basic new car warranty was still in place. I was buying Mopar, Chevy, and Ford (cars and trucks), and none of their dealers offered free loaners when your new car was in the shop. But for all 3, if you had the factory extended warranty, and your car was in the shop for more than a single day, the extended warranty paid for a rental.

These days, you can reasonably expect to buy a new car and never use the factory warranty. With a little luck, I admit, but many people NEVER use the factory warranty. Back in the 80’s and 90’s, that just wasn’t the case. You expected problems, and they almost always did have problems.

I would call and schedule an appointment, and tell them to have a rental waiting. The service writer would point out that I would have to pay for the rental IF they got my car fixed the first day. And I was good with that. I could drop off the car and drive away in a rental. And if they got it fixed in one day, I was out about $30, big deal. And if they took more than one day, I was not concerned, their problem, not mine.

And a secondary argument for the extended service contract back in those days: I had more than one service writer / service manager tell me that having the extended warranty helped him when he was negotiating with Detroit to get repairs covered under warranty.

These days, no, I don’t buy extended warranties. I expect my new vehicles to be trouble free. Which (mostly) happens.

jpp75

jpp5862 said:

28firefighter said:

I have two problems:
(1) I refuse to take a loss on the car because I had zero intention of getting rid of it before 3 years.

(2) I honestly don't know what I could replace it with that is that utilitarian and fun to drive for what I paid for it ($24k new).

I wouldn't take a loss either, in fact I would be open to buying the Touareg at the end of the lease if they would step up and fix it.

#2 is my biggest reason for not trading out, there's nothing else I want.

I just called my service advisor for an update. He asked for the third time if I had a diesel or a gas version. I reminded him it was gas and he said "right, we're looking into options and need to see if we have one you can drive"

Since I took it in the first time they've had a 2017 Wolfsburg on the lot and it was there yesterday so this is a mix of stalling and incompetence.

Michaell

Mr_Shiftright said:

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

poking around looking (as always). Thinking that if I was buying now, for the money, something like this could be a nice option. Pretty cheap, certainly useful, and I don't put a lot of miles on a car these days. I don't think this one has the optional backup camera, which could be a problem. though I guess you can add those if you really want to.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2010-mazda-cx~7-awd_4dr_s_touring-used-15624427.html

You know there is a possibility that the engine could grenade. That was why we traded out of our 2010 CX-7 and into the Outback.

Was that for a timing chain issue or some such?

Yes, they had a nasty habit of breaking. Mazda was pushing back on requests to replace the engine at their cost.

Ours had 60K miles on it.

Michaell

sda said:

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

poking around looking (as always). Thinking that if I was buying now, for the money, something like this could be a nice option. Pretty cheap, certainly useful, and I don't put a lot of miles on a car these days. I don't think this one has the optional backup camera, which could be a problem. though I guess you can add those if you really want to.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2010-mazda-cx~7-awd_4dr_s_touring-used-15624427.html

You know there is a possibility that the engine could grenade. That was why we traded out of our 2010 CX-7 and into the Outback.

Was your CX-7 a turbo? I understand those were very trouble prone and the reputation followed with poor resale value.

Yes, the 2.3L turbo, also found in both the Mazdaspeed 3 and 6.

Fun engine - 244HP but lots of turbo lag.

We got $12K for it in trade.

andres3

stickguy said:

I am assuming that is close and expected. that video had a lot of details, including the labels, and even a shot of the specific parts. But of course, if the feds (or carb) won't sign off, they won't be reselling all those cars in this country;

I really hope they get it all approved, so the people that want to keep them can, and they can get the rest back in circulation. Seems like a huge waste to have to just scrap all those cars.

I still haven't seen a plausible way the gov't will stop people from keeping their TDI if they want to keep it. If they flag TDI models it will take them years to redesign smog tests to fail the cheaters, and those tests are not required first 6 years, and only every other year thereafter.

jpp75

stickguy said:

poking around looking (as always). Thinking that if I was buying now, for the money, something like this could be a nice option. Pretty cheap, certainly useful, and I don't put a lot of miles on a car these days. I don't think this one has the optional backup camera, which could be a problem. though I guess you can add those if you really want to.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2010-mazda-cx~7-awd_4dr_s_touring-used-15624427.html

As @Michaell said these don't have a great reputation. There's a reason it's cheap.