Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

Sandman6472

But a 328i with sports seats seems to be the way to go. Like a vehicle with good seats especially with my spinal issues.

The Sandman

stickguy

Yes. Sports seats are a wonderful feature. And rare as hens teeth on a used 328

coldinohio

re Alfa
J Clarkson, Grand Tour formerly top gear, did not like egress because of B pillar....

graphicguy

Michaell said:

graphicguy said:

Interesting....in my nearest Costco, they have a C300 4 Matic next to the service desk touting their car buying service. Pretty well loaded up, close to a $50K sticker. Costco has a price breakdown putting it at $41K if you use their service. That looks like a pretty darned good deal.

20% off sticker does seem like a lot.

I can almost see the gears turning in your head from here...

Ohhhhh...don't you know it!!!!!! It was even midnight blue with tan 'terior! Pretty sharp!

Mr_Shiftright

coldinohio said:

re Alfa
J Clarkson, Grand Tour formerly top gear, did not like egress because of B pillar....

Looks very tight getting in and out relative to where the seat position is.

corvette

Not a problem if you're short like me, but I can see it causing issues for someone as tall as Clarkson. I wouldn't spend $80k for one, though, isn't that M5 territory? Never mind, just checked the pricing on M5s... :@

fintail

M5 and E63 are now both solid 6 figure cars.

corvette

fintail said:

M5 and E63 are now both solid 6 figure cars.

I guess I'm getting old. I remember when a fully loaded 4WD Suburban was in the high $30s.

fintail

I remember when a nice Accord could be had for under 15K and an AMG E-class stickered around 70K. I also remember when an acceptable house in a nice enough Seattle or Bellevue neighborhood could be had for under 200K. Now the cars cost 50% more and the houses are 400% more.

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

M5 and E63 are now both solid 6 figure cars.

I guess if I could pay those prices I wouldn't mind the $20K--$30K hit in depreciation after one year. But $30K isn't chump change, even to a millionaire.

nyccarguy

I distinctly remember when an E36 ///M3 topped out at $42K. Now an ///M3 is a $75K plus car.

stickguy

decided to take a cruise through the local CL tonight looking at car ads. Man, what pit that has become. So much trash to sift through, and the occasional gem (like when I am selling one of mine!) is getting to be really few and far between.

At this point, if I decide to buy used, probably just going to stick with the little network of reputable local indy dealers near me. Up to at least 3 I am perfectly comfortable buying from!

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

I distinctly remember when an E36 ///M3 topped out at $42K. Now an ///M3 is a $75K plus car.

What year was the E36 M3? 1996? If so, that $42K is worth $65K today, due to inflation.

I remember the "one only at this price" Accord LX we bought in 1992 was $14,888. That's close to $26K today.

I'm getting to the age where I'm spouting off "in my day, (such and such) only cost (so and so amount)".

But, when I adjust it for inflation, I get a better sense of the true value to the current prices.

IIRC, I saw a 3-series BMW when I was in college in Phoenix in '83-'84 that stickered for $15K. That's $38K today - so, yeah, the sticker price of a 3-series has outstripped inflation. As it should, given all the technology that's on it.

cdnpinhead

The Subaru Forester acquisition is complete, and it couldn’t have gone better. This is the (very) long version of how it came to pass – feel free to scroll. To review, in November my better half totaled her ’04 Pathfinder (which we both loved) in a 10 mph fender-bender – go figure. Anyway, I decided 18 months or so ago that a Forester was the best option for a replacement (thanks to several folks on this board and the one barely-alive Subaru board). At that time the PF had an oil leak that I feared was a main seal, but turned out to be an oil cooler o-ring, so the PF remained in service.

Anyway, in December, when the insurance company totaled the PF, it became apparent that we needed a Forester, and we needed it now – just what you want to deal with in the middle of the holidays. I did the research that all of us do at such a time and determined that what we needed was a Forester premium with eyesight (had the PF been equipped with something similar, we’d still have it, but I digress). The next objective was to see if Mrs. Pinhead liked the vehicle. To her, cars aren’t that important, but she likes what she likes. I made an appointment to test-drive one at the closest dealer to us in the Phx metro area a few days before Christmas, and she loved the vehicle, besides which she was willing to go with a real color (Jasmine Green) instead of the deadly dull silver or white which I thought she would prefer.

After the test-drive I began searching the internet for the exact vehicle we needed. The Phoenix (Gilbert) dealer was talking several hundred dollars above “invoice,” so I spread a (much) wider net. A dealer in Tucson had something close to what we wanted (tint I didn’t like – I want Hupter Optik) and quoted $400 over “invoice.” I travel a lot for business, so can arrange trips to coincide with a good deal, regardless of where it is. I looked at the internet inventories for several of the biggest Subaru dealers in the country, from Massachusetts to Washington to (wait for it) Colorado. I noticed two things: 1) almost no one had what we were looking for and 2) 70% of the vehicles listed in the inventories were “in transit.” Subaru apparently can’t build these things fast enough, or at least get them delivered to the dealers.

Shortline Subaru in Aurora (Denver) had two vehicles in transit that fit the bill exactly, so I sent them an internet request for a quote. The next day I got a call from the salesman, when he quoted me $25,827 for the vehicle, plus the $500 fee that they at least refer to as a “Delivery and Handling” charge, which I find less offensive than a “documentation fee.” Either way, even with the ADM included, I was looking at $26,327, which was more than $1200 under the so-called invoice price. I confirmed the deal over the phone, put $500 down on a credit card, and waited to see if it was a scam or not.

It was not. I’m sat here looking at a pink sheet of paper with those exact numbers on them, signed yesterday. Just to keep in interesting, the Tucson guy came back with the news that the car I was interested in had sold that day but that he could order me just what I wanted at $500 under invoice. While that was $900 better than his first offer, it was still $700 more than Shortline, and the wait for the car would be longer.

It was not all smooth sailing. I was told that the car should arrive 13 Jan, plus or minus 10 working days. I planned a nice trip for my wife and myself based on that date, but it was not to be. The car didn’t come in until I was in the middle of a business trip to the Midwest, so I ended up driving from Omaha to Denver to pick it up, since that was cheaper than modifying my airline ticket.

When I bought my TSX in ‘08 (it came from Denver as well, but I didn’t know that until after it had been trucked down) I was given the keys and wished a nice day. Not exactly a premium delivery experience, but I didn’t much care – I know how to read the manual. However, they didn’t give me the radio code, which later turned into a pain, and pairing my cell phone on my own was a bit of drama that I could have done without.

Shortline’s sales guy (I guess we’re not supposed to mention names here) had everything set up and ready to go when I showed up at the appointed time. He went over the basics, then we took a short test drive and it was back to his desk to go over all the manuals and documentation that needed to be signed – voluminous. Turned out the F&I lady was tied up, so he went through an exhaustive review of all (or at least most) of the features of the vehicle, hands-on. The Eyesight thing is really quite something. F&I still wasn’t ready, so he offered to follow me out to DEN/DIA where I needed to turn my car in so he could bring me back – very nice, that probably saved me an hour, relative to riding the shuttle bus to the terminals and taking a cab. The F&I lady was persistent and I was polite, for once, and I was on my way, completely satisfied with my basic vehicle warranty at zero additional cost.

The drive was fine, though I had some trouble finding the cruise control “on” button, since the quick-start guide illustrated it for a non-Eyesight car. That was the extent of my difficulties. Windy, windy, windy coming down, with serious snow in the mountains, so I took the dull Interstate route home rather than the scenic route involving Wolf Creek Pass. Mileage around 28 mpg indicated, but I’ll be interested in seeing how optimistic those numbers are, relative to the real gas pump calculated values.

So, that is all. Kudos to those who stuck it out.

Michaell

cdnpinhead said:

The Subaru Forester acquisition is complete, and it couldn’t have gone better. This is the (very) long version of how it came to pass – feel free to scroll. To review, in November my better half totaled her ’04 Pathfinder (which we both loved) in a 10 mph fender-bender – go figure. Anyway, I decided 18 months or so ago that a Forester was the best option for a replacement (thanks to several folks on this board and the one barely-alive Subaru board). At that time the PF had an oil leak that I feared was a main seal, but turned out to be an oil cooler o-ring, so the PF remained in service.

Anyway, in December, when the insurance company totaled the PF, it became apparent that we needed a Forester, and we needed it now – just what you want to deal with in the middle of the holidays. I did the research that all of us do at such a time and determined that what we needed was a Forester premium with eyesight (had the PF been equipped with something similar, we’d still have it, but I digress). The next objective was to see if Mrs. Pinhead liked the vehicle. To her, cars aren’t that important, but she likes what she likes. I made an appointment to test-drive one at the closest dealer to us in the Phx metro area a few days before Christmas, and she loved the vehicle, besides which she was willing to go with a real color (Jasmine Green) instead of the deadly dull silver or white which I thought she would prefer.

After the test-drive I began searching the internet for the exact vehicle we needed. The Phoenix (Gilbert) dealer was talking several hundred dollars above “invoice,” so I spread a (much) wider net. A dealer in Tucson had something close to what we wanted (tint I didn’t like – I want Hupter Optik) and quoted $400 over “invoice.” I travel a lot for business, so can arrange trips to coincide with a good deal, regardless of where it is. I looked at the internet inventories for several of the biggest Subaru dealers in the country, from Massachusetts to Washington to (wait for it) Colorado. I noticed two things: 1) almost no one had what we were looking for and 2) 70% of the vehicles listed in the inventories were “in transit.” Subaru apparently can’t build these things fast enough, or at least get them delivered to the dealers.

Shortline Subaru in Aurora (Denver) had two vehicles in transit that fit the bill exactly, so I sent them an internet request for a quote. The next day I got a call from the salesman, when he quoted me $25,827 for the vehicle, plus the $500 fee that they at least refer to as a “Delivery and Handling” charge, which I find less offensive than a “documentation fee.” Either way, even with the ADM included, I was looking at $26,327, which was more than $1200 under the so-called invoice price. I confirmed the deal over the phone, put $500 down on a credit card, and waited to see if it was a scam or not.

It was not. I’m sat here looking at a pink sheet of paper with those exact numbers on them, signed yesterday. Just to keep in interesting, the Tucson guy came back with the news that the car I was interested in had sold that day but that he could order me just what I wanted at $500 under invoice. While that was $900 better than his first offer, it was still $700 more than Shortline, and the wait for the car would be longer.

It was not all smooth sailing. I was told that the car should arrive 13 Jan, plus or minus 10 working days. I planned a nice trip for my wife and myself based on that date, but it was not to be. The car didn’t come in until I was in the middle of a business trip to the Midwest, so I ended up driving from Omaha to Denver to pick it up, since that was cheaper than modifying my airline ticket.

When I bought my TSX in ‘08 (it came from Denver as well, but I didn’t know that until after it had been trucked down) I was given the keys and wished a nice day. Not exactly a premium delivery experience, but I didn’t much care – I know how to read the manual. However, they didn’t give me the radio code, which later turned into a pain, and pairing my cell phone on my own was a bit of drama that I could have done without.

Shortline’s sales guy (I guess we’re not supposed to mention names here) had everything set up and ready to go when I showed up at the appointed time. He went over the basics, then we took a short test drive and it was back to his desk to go over all the manuals and documentation that needed to be signed – voluminous. Turned out the F&I lady was tied up, so he went through an exhaustive review of all (or at least most) of the features of the vehicle, hands-on. The Eyesight thing is really quite something. F&I still wasn’t ready, so he offered to follow me out to DEN/DIA where I needed to turn my car in so he could bring me back – very nice, that probably saved me an hour, relative to riding the shuttle bus to the terminals and taking a cab. The F&I lady was persistent and I was polite, for once, and I was on my way, completely satisfied with my basic vehicle warranty at zero additional cost.

The drive was fine, though I had some trouble finding the cruise control “on” button, since the quick-start guide illustrated it for a non-Eyesight car. That was the extent of my difficulties. Windy, windy, windy coming down, with serious snow in the mountains, so I took the dull Interstate route home rather than the scenic route involving Wolf Creek Pass. Mileage around 28 mpg indicated, but I’ll be interested in seeing how optimistic those numbers are, relative to the real gas pump calculated values.

So, that is all. Kudos to those who stuck it out.

Great story. Glad the delivery went well. And shuttling you back from DIA was icing on the cake.

You are welcome to mention the salesman name - just no email or phone number.

Sorry I wasn't able to see the car in person, but the dealerships in CO are closed on Sunday.

Hope Mrs. Pinhead is happy with the vehicle.

suydam

Enjoy your Forester! Will be interested to hear first impressions. It's a great car on bad roads.

28firefighter

Great deal, @cdnpinhead! Sounds like an excellent reason to make the trek to an out-of-state dealer. 

Enjoy the new whip!

stickguy

my SIL bought a Jasmine premium 2 years ago. She loves it.

rayainsw

Congrats on the Punch !
- Ray
Forester is on my daughter's "short list"...

kyfdx

I remember gas at $0.23/gallon.

Not really relevant to today, though. I think my Mom made about $3000/yr as a school teacher, then.

$15K Accords were well over 20 years ago.

sda

nyccarguy said:

28firefighter said:

nyccarguy said:

Found this interesting 328xi on swap-a-lease:

http://www.swapalease.com/mobile/details.aspx?p=1&salID=1036648

2016 328xi
Estoril Blue/Black Guts
Renter claims it has ///MSport Package plus adaptive suspension
No Xenon Lights - Plain Old Halogens
Slick Top - No Sunroof

Payment after $3K incentive is approximately $507/month (not sure if this includes tax or not. 1,635 miles per month would be good for me. 20 months left to go.

You could lease brand new or even an executive demo for far less than that. 

I'm not so sure about that. The executive demo would have to be VERY aggressively priced like your X1. New? I put a few options in a 330xi to give it an MSRP of $51,020, then plugged the numbers in using a $1,000 under invoice selling price. Pre Tax payment comes to $609.54. Add $38.71 tax each month and you get a total payment of $648.25. Plus I'd have to come up with 1st month, Bank Fee, & DMW Fees. And that only gets me 15,000 miles per year. Let's say I pre pay at $.20 per mile (x 15,000). It comes out to an extra $3,000 (or $83.33 per month plus tax). $730 something per month. YIKES!

The one i posted from swap a lease looks expensive, but it has the miles I need.

Yes @stickguy, $10K to drive a used car for 20 months. It is better than spending $26K to rent the new car for 3 years.

Keeping the Legacy (for now)

Keeping the Legacy (for now) Famous last words

nyccarguy

@cdnpinhead - congrats on the Forester.  I wish you many years of enjoyment & trouble free ownership!  Great job getting the car you wanted at a great price from a fantastic dealer.  I'm glad you made it home safe!

Mr_Shiftright

CL is generally for people who are on fire and bailing out--but as you say, if you are persistent, you can occasionally find a nice car there.

andres3

3-year leases are a way to lock a chronic car buying sufferer into a "long-term" commitment. Of course, leasing doesn't seem to stop people here from preempting the 3 year ownership period here!

So looking to the future, if I reach 36,000 miles in say 30 months on the Optima, do I:

• A) keep driving it at .20 a mile
  
• 
  
• B ) park and store it for six months and drive something else
  
• 
  
• C) See if Kia will work something out (probably only if I buy/lease again from them though, right)?
  

breld

I was fortunate enough to get out of my Kia lease early with a very palatable trade offer. I got the sense they were anxious to get the sale done on the Durango so stepped up on the Sedona - I mean, they started at $20k (which matched the Carmax offer, unbeknownst to them) but came all the way up to $23k to get the deal done. I was at 31k miles at 25 months in, so I was definitely headed for some mileage charge.

So...if you find something you like at a dealership willing to deal, you could possibly get out of the lease early. Obviously, you'd have to weigh the remaining payment commitment against any equity loss you'd take - no sense in "giving away" free use of the car. For me, my remaining payments totaled about $4,400, not including any mileage charges and the disposition fee. At the $23k trade, I was essentially paying $1,400 to get out of the lease early, which was fine with me.

I say you work something out with Kia and be the guinea pig for all of us and test out the upcoming Stinger.

roadburner

sda said:

Yes @stickguy, $10K to drive a used car for 20 months. It is better than spending $26K to rent the new car for 3 years.

How about $2815 to rent a new car for 23 months...

stickguy

That I would Do. Gladly.

laurasdada

Guess I'll be keeping the XF for a bit longer, just did the front and rear brakes yesterday. Ouchie in the wallet.

Congats on the Subie, cdnpinhead, eh!

nyccarguy

roadburner said:

Yes @stickguy, $10K to drive a used car for 20 months. It is better than spending $26K to rent the new car for 3 years.

How about $2815 to rent a new car for 23 months...

Your i3?  That's a helluva deal!

nyccarguy

http://blog.caranddriver.com/infiniti-q50-signature-edition-pairs-twin-turbo-v-6-power-with-sub-40k-price/?src=socialflowFB

My interest is peaked

sda

roadburner said:

sda said:

Yes @stickguy, $10K to drive a used car for 20 months. It is better than spending $26K to rent the new car for 3 years.

How about $2815 to rent a new car for 23 months...

I don't take credit for that observation, it was nyccarguy

Yes @stickguy, $10K to drive a used car for 20 months. It is better than spending $26K to rent the new car for 3 years.

Keeping the Legacy (for now)

stickguy

Bradd, I sat n one at the car show. Was nice. And sticker really was a tick under 42k with that motor.

I would like to try their 2.0t motor too. Big fan of those.

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

roadburner said:

sda said:

Yes @stickguy, $10K to drive a used car for 20 months. It is better than spending $26K to rent the new car for 3 years.

How about $2815 to rent a new car for 23 months...

Your i3?  That's a helluva deal!

It really is, especially considering the thing had an MSRP of $55,895. Crazy...

rayainsw

"http://blog.caranddriver.com/infiniti-q50-signature-edition-pairs-twin-turbo-v-6-power-with-sub-40k-price/?src=socialflowFB

My interest is peaked "
Mine, too.
- Ray
Specs say it should be a decent performer... now at a 'more decent' price

stickguy

Natural competitor for a fusion sport?

Michaell

stickguy said:

Bradd, I sat n one at the car show. Was nice. And sticker really was a tick under 42k with that motor.

I would like to try their 2.0t motor too. Big fan of those.

The 2.0T is the one they've borrowed from MB, that they use in the CLA and GLA - only 208 HP. Given the mass of the Q50, it doesn't seem like enough engine.

Everybody else's 2.0T makes 240 HP, or more (Lexus, BMW, Audi)

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

Bradd, I sat n one at the car show. Was nice. And sticker really was a tick under 42k with that motor.

I would like to try their 2.0t motor too. Big fan of those.

It looks like the 17" tires have a decent amount of sidewall. Hmmm. I wonder if they have the same 225/55/R17 size that's on my Legacy.

qbrozen

nyccarguy said:

http://blog.caranddriver.com/infiniti-q50-signature-edition-pairs-twin-turbo-v-6-power-with-sub-40k-price/?src=socialflowFB

My interest is peaked

Only 300 hp? So they downsized from a 3.7 to a 3.0 TT and lost power in the process. That is not going in the right direction, IMHO.

corvette

With two turbos, I suspect it's underrated at 300 hp. Looks like a good value. 

qbrozen

I just read another article where they noted the Q50 will be either FWD or AWD. Is that right?? Is the Q50 not the old G37? What platform did they swap to?

Edit: seems it is an error in that particular article.

breld

Not sure if this is old news, but for those eyeing the new MINI Countryman, you can "build your own" at their website now.

I was surprised at how in line the pricing is with the Clubman - I figured there would be more of a premium for the "SUV" model. Pricing be about the same, it's more of a consumer choice between "wagon-like" and "SUV-like."

Nice that they still offer a manual as standard on all trim levels - not too many AWD vehicles available with that anymore.

PF_Flyer

Hello! Once again, Edmunds is partnering with Parents Magazine to help families find their perfect car. If you own one of the below vehicles and have children under the age of 12, we'd love to hear what you think of it.
Here's a link to the survey - please give us your thoughts no later than March 1, 2017.
Thanks for your help!


SURVEY LINK: https://goo.gl/forms/wN9bw9FtPqRb2j4a2

Kia Soul (ideally 2017, 2016)
Chevrolet Bolt (2017)
Honda Civic (2016-17)
Hyundai Sonata (2015-17)
Subaru Crosstrek (2015-17)
Honda CR-V (2017)
Toyota Highlander (2017)
Chrysler Pacifica (2017)
Subaru Outback (2015-17)

stickguy

Got the car. Not the kid thankfully!

PF_Flyer

One out of two! Maybe next time

qbrozen

Oooo.... https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/share/166648534

Sure, its miley, but that third pedal has to be quite rare.

28firefighter

Wow - great shape, but forget it with those miles.

roadburner

qbrozen said:

Oooo.... https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/share/166648534

Sure, its miley, but that third pedal has to be quite rare.

Not all that rare; when I was looking at R/T and SRT Challengers I'd guess that 30-40 percent were manuals.

qbrozen

roadburner said:

qbrozen said:

Oooo.... https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/share/166648534

Sure, its miley, but that third pedal has to be quite rare.

Not all that rare; when I was looking at R/T and SRT Challengers I'd guess that 30-40 percent were manuals.

really? I just did a nationwide search and although it told me 27 came up, when I clicked on many of them, they still had an auto. Did find a few, but still pricey.

Ah, just checked again. I had it limited to $20k. Tells me 400 if no price restriction, but I don't have time to click through them all. I really doubt its anywhere near 30% though. Isn't the breakdown something like 5% of all new cars. I'm sure they don't buck the trend that significantly.

qbrozen

Really would prefer something other than black, but this looks to be in really nice shape

DANGIT! Bad accident history.

nyccarguy

There's a guy with a really sharp 328xd Wagon parked on the street outside my store. White with Black interior. Sharp!