Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

benjaminh

ab348 said:

Spent a few hours today visiting closed car dealers and I'm more up in the air than ever.

I ran into a fellow doing the same thing as me at the other Caddy dealer in town, driving a 2013 ATS with the V6 that is about to come off lease. We had a chat and he suggested I do something I hadn't considered because I wasn't sure it was possible: extend the lease another year or so. He said he is thinking of doing the same thing himself because he likes his car and sees no reason to dump it. I may call GM Financial next week and get the lowdown on that.

Oddly enough, though I saw lots of late-model BMWs (including a bunch of 2017 models), none of them really did much for me. They all seemed to be white with black interiors and I suppose because of the way they were equipped they seemed kind of cheap-looking. Several 2015-2017 M-B C300s were more appealing but considerably more expensive. There was a 2015 C400, black with red leather, that was just gorgeous but overpriced. Oddly (to me), one of the cars that appealed to me the most was a 2017 Fusion SE Ecoboost at the local Kia dealer, low miles, black on black leather, looked good to me at $24K Cdn. I was never really a fan of the Fusion but that one just sort of stuck with me.

I found a few ATS models that I was mildly or strongly interested in. A 2016 on a Ford dealer's used lot with low miles, but silver on black, not really my fave, and badly overpriced. A new 2017 "Executive Demo" at the aforementioned Caddy dealer, white metallic with black leather, no price shown but big letters stuck to the side proclaiming "SAVE $10,250".

Two others jumped out at me enough to take a couple of pics. The first was at the used lot of the place I got mine from, a 2017 with 12000 miles, just a bit more than mine, but a higher-level model with lots more stuff. It is in gray metallic with black leather, and the color combo looked good, as did the price. Amazingly, it was unlocked.






I would want to know where it came from, service history, etc. It made me wonder if it was an ex-rental or fleet car from elsewhere because it had a front license plate mount which our local cars usually do not have. Seemed very nice though.

Down the road at their new car lot, there was this new one that is probably heavily incentivized. I suspect the color would not appeal to many but I rather like this paint shade. Reminds me of M-B's Diamond Silver, really a silver blue. Also black inside.




I need to figure out what the heck I want to do.

What do you think was the original msrp was for this 2017 ATS?

ab348

benjaminh said:

What do you think was the original msrp was for this 2017 ATS?

Don't know for the grey one but probably around $50K Cdn. Here is the sticker for the blue one:

sda

ab348 said:

benjaminh said:

What do you think was the original msrp was for this 2017 ATS?

Don't know for the grey one but probably around $50K Cdn. Here is the sticker for the blue one:

I like.

carnaught

Wow, that car is sure loaded! I don't think anything is missing. Anyone know what an "active aero grille" is?

ab348

Apparently there are shutters behind the grille that close at highway speeds to improve aerodynamics and thus fuel economy.

js06gv

ab348 said:

Spent a few hours today visiting closed car dealers and I'm more up in the air than ever.

I ran into a fellow doing the same thing as me at the other Caddy dealer in town, driving a 2013 ATS with the V6 that is about to come off lease. We had a chat and he suggested I do something I hadn't considered because I wasn't sure it was possible: extend the lease another year or so. He said he is thinking of doing the same thing himself because he likes his car and sees no reason to dump it. I may call GM Financial next week and get the lowdown on that.

Oddly enough, though I saw lots of late-model BMWs (including a bunch of 2017 models), none of them really did much for me. They all seemed to be white with black interiors and I suppose because of the way they were equipped they seemed kind of cheap-looking. Several 2015-2017 M-B C300s were more appealing but considerably more expensive. There was a 2015 C400, black with red leather, that was just gorgeous but overpriced. Oddly (to me), one of the cars that appealed to me the most was a 2017 Fusion SE Ecoboost at the local Kia dealer, low miles, black on black leather, looked good to me at $24K Cdn. I was never really a fan of the Fusion but that one just sort of stuck with me.

I found a few ATS models that I was mildly or strongly interested in. A 2016 on a Ford dealer's used lot with low miles, but silver on black, not really my fave, and badly overpriced. A new 2017 "Executive Demo" at the aforementioned Caddy dealer, white metallic with black leather, no price shown but big letters stuck to the side proclaiming "SAVE $10,250".

Two others jumped out at me enough to take a couple of pics. The first was at the used lot of the place I got mine from, a 2017 with 12000 miles, just a bit more than mine, but a higher-level model with lots more stuff. It is in gray metallic with black leather, and the color combo looked good, as did the price. Amazingly, it was unlocked.






I would want to know where it came from, service history, etc. It made me wonder if it was an ex-rental or fleet car from elsewhere because it had a front license plate mount which our local cars usually do not have. Seemed very nice though.

Down the road at their new car lot, there was this new one that is probably heavily incentivized. I suspect the color would not appeal to many but I rather like this paint shade. Reminds me of M-B's Diamond Silver, really a silver blue. Also black inside.




I need to figure out what the heck I want to do.

I'm a fan of silver blue metallic. Ten years ago when I was picking out a then-new body style Santa Fe for my wife, one of the reasons that color appealed to me was because it looked so good on the Lexus RX, and there were enough similarities style-wise between the two cars that I chose silver blue. Went with a tan interior for the same reason, when most of the interiors for this color were black or grey. Back then, the carpets were beige too, which changed in 2008. Really liked that color combo.

Sandman6472

As much as I do like the Mini Cooper, doubt I'll end up in one because of the fact of that article. I hate drama, especially with my d d, so will probably go in another direction but right now, that could be anywhere. But still a few years away from doing anything. So far, my VW has been great except that first hiccup which was eventually located and taken care of. By the end of October, the factory warranty will be done with so we'll see what will happen. Plan A is to retire again at the end of 2018 with Plan B, the other half's, is to shoot for the end of 2019. Depending on how I feel will depend on the plan chosen. Right now, just praying that Irma will pass us by with little to no drama!

The Sandman

Mr_Shiftright

If I bought a new one, I'd double up on the service intervals, get a tube of Gorilla glue, and sell it after 5 years. I think you'd be all right then.

Sandman6472

Like Cadillacs generally but their infotainment and a/c controls can be hard to understand at first, usually need a few minutes to understand it all. I prefer systems that are pretty simple and easy to understand and operate. And love knobs no matter their size, just can not deal with knobless infotainment systems and avoid those vehicles. Having an iPhone makes having a vehicle that has the iPhone system in it is preferable and doubt going forward I'd purchase any vehicle without it. Have had XM on my current ride plus on my previous one, like the variety of it and will probably have it on my next one also. But, ease of use in any infotainment system is one of the major reasons why I will, or will not purchase a certain vehicle. Guess as I get older, I prefer things to work easily with a very small learning curve.

The Sandman

Michaell

Had a chance to roam the local CarMax today, while waiting to get a haircut. Half the places were closed, so the other half were swamped.

Some random observations.

2017 Ford Taurus SHO - silver over black, $30K asking price. Big car, but surprisingly small inside. Not sure what Ford engineers did to achieve this.

BMW 535d xDrive - white over cognac, $32K asking. This I liked - the 535d is not all that common, and I really liked the color combo. 26/37 ratings for MPG. Smaller than the SHO, but I felt like there was more room in it.

MB C250 - there were three of these, all RWD (likely ex-rentals). Didn't sit in any of them, as I'd likely skip the RWD here in CO.

2013 Mustang GT - silver over black, 49K, asking $22.5K. Equipped with a 6-speed manual, which I suspect will limit the potential buying pool. Not sure I would choose silver as any of my top 3 or 4 color choices for a Mustang.

BMW X1 - this is a @stickguy special - navy blue over tan interior. I like this better than the MB GLA that was 2 cars down from it.

And, I saw a 2017 MB GLC300 - the car @breld just brought home from Texas. Interior is just gorgeous!

There was also a Plum Crazy Challenger, and a Porsche Panamera (didn't bother looking at the price tag on that one).

stickguy

I could live with the 1st gen X1, but really like the current style. That is just a budget issue at this point!

If I found an actually well equipped C class RWD (or 3 series) at a distress price because of it, I would be all over that baby.

Michaell

stickguy said:

I could live with the 1st gen X1, but really like the current style. That is just a budget issue at this point!

If I found an actually well equipped C class RWD (or 3 series) at a distress price because of it, I would be all over that baby.

There was also a RWD 3-series on the lot.

stickguy

sounds odd for colorado. Heck, unheard of in south jersey, and here it really is not a big deal.

especially for me. My Sonata has done 3 winters now, and has never touched snow. even in the years we had a few big snow events, it just stayed in the garage until the roads were cleared.

Michaell

stickguy said:

sounds odd for colorado. Heck, unheard of in south jersey, and here it really is not a big deal.

especially for me. My Sonata has done 3 winters now, and has never touched snow. even in the years we had a few big snow events, it just stayed in the garage until the roads were cleared.

Remember, this is CarMax, home of the oddball.

Lots of RWD inventory on cars that are available with AWD - MB, BMW, Cadillac, Infiniti, etc. I suspect that folks move to Colorado from California, Texas, etc,, then realize they probably ought not to have RWD cars once the snow flies. So, they get traded in at CarMax (you think the local MB dealer wants a RWD MB in their used car inventory?) and likely transferred out of state where it will get sold.

28firefighter

Isn't that GLC the one @breld requested transferred to the local CarMax?

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

Isn't that GLC the one @breld requested transferred to the local CarMax?

So, @breld attracts cars, even when he doesn't purchase them?

28firefighter

We decided to take Sam to the Washington State Fair this weekend in Puyallup. Nothing says Labor Day weekend like Mutton Busting, the 4-H pavilions, and eating your weight in fried food. I justified the food because I'm still trying to regain the weight I lost in the hospital. 

Sam loved the sheep and the piglets - couldn't stop laughing at them. 

Since I work from home now, the GTI doesn't get as many miles or opportunities to open up.  Decided since everyone was going to end sleeping both directions anyway,  we would leave the Bimmer home. I packed it up for the hour drive south to the fair and as expected everyone promptly passed out. Luckily no traffic in either direction and was able to really have some fun with it. 

A solid weekend indeed!

suydam

Sounds great! How old is he now? I love watching the little Mutton Busters at our yearly rodeo along with the amazing horsemanship displayed by the older kids and grown ups.

tbirdmarco

@tjc78 yes an blessing that is for shore. would never get the came car back to back! only if it was an new jenaration than that is fine! my mom did that with her 2003 and 2006 santafys told her now when the Maxima gos back don't get an nother one evan tho you like the car so much! we shal see! good that you have an bit of time still! I no you have a lot of other things going on now! have an grate day!

tbirdmarco

hope that everyone had an good weekand. had gon upstate to older brother that is it for an bit! over all grate weekand!

tbirdmarco

@sb55 congrads on the new Moter home!

tbirdmarco

@PF_Flyer go for it you no we will all tell you to bye the car!

tbirdmarco

@ab348 do what you think works out best for you keep your current car or go for the new one! in hear think we would all say go for the new car! lollollol and not the same one! for the secand time! lollollollol

corvette

Tire update after 100 miles or so: Super impressed with the Continental ExtremeContact Sport tires--money well spent. Excellent dry and wet traction. They do not break loose if you're smooth with the throttle. Steering feel when cornering is also improved, and the ride is smoother. I'm not even sure the plus zero upgrade to 255 mm was necessary, but after driving with the old 245 mm width OEM tires and experiencing their lack of traction, I wanted to be real darn sure I had accounted for all the potential sources of trouble! I'm much more confident in the Mustang's abilities now. 

An audio upgrade is probably next on the list. I'm a complete sucker--I'm paying for a second XM subscription even though it's not my daily driver! 

Mr_Shiftright

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

sounds odd for colorado. Heck, unheard of in south jersey, and here it really is not a big deal.

especially for me. My Sonata has done 3 winters now, and has never touched snow. even in the years we had a few big snow events, it just stayed in the garage until the roads were cleared.

Remember, this is CarMax, home of the oddball.

Lots of RWD inventory on cars that are available with AWD - MB, BMW, Cadillac, Infiniti, etc. I suspect that folks move to Colorado from California, Texas, etc,, then realize they probably ought not to have RWD cars once the snow flies. So, they get traded in at CarMax (you think the local MB dealer wants a RWD MB in their used car inventory?) and likely transferred out of state where it will get sold.

You folks in Denver don't need AWD unless you're a skier. You have the Solar Snow Removal Service!

28firefighter

suydam said:

Sounds great! How old is he now? I love watching the little Mutton Busters at our yearly rodeo along with the amazing horsemanship displayed by the older kids and grown ups.

He's just over 7 months now. Crazy.

suydam

But isn't skiing a requirement for living there?

ab348

Called GM Financial this morning to look into options for extending my existing lease. Wasn't a long look; the lady there said they simply do not do that. No option to extend.

stickguy

I just called Hyundai finance, since got an email that my auto debit ended. Pretty sure I had a month left. turns out that I do, and they just shut off the direct debit a month early to make sure you don't get too many. Seems odd, but makes me go on line and submit a payment next month. My last one!

Ab, I do have the option to extend for 6 months, deciding month to month if I want to continue. Nice feature. I will more likely let it go back and try to make do with 1 car for me and the wife. Doubt that lasts long though.

Michaell

suydam said:

But isn't skiing a requirement for living there?

Nope.

Snow, gravity and trees do not make a good combination, in my opinion.

Just ask Sonny Bono...

breld

28firefighter said:

Isn't that GLC the one @breld requested transferred to the local CarMax?

Hmm - the one we requested the transfer on was a 2016, so must be a different one. In any case, my wife never heard back from CarMax regarding that one, and it's off their site, so we assume it was actually sold prior to the transfer request (unless they take it off their site as it's being transferred, but I doubt that).

Also had a voicemail over the weekend from the salesman at the local MB dealership, saying that he had an idea on how they could get us into a GLC. He was nice enough, so I'll call back out of courtesy. But I actually told him we were considering used GLCs out of state if they couldn't meet our offer on their service loaner. I don't bluff.

laurasdada

Michaell said:

suydam said:

But isn't skiing a requirement for living there?

Nope.

Snow, gravity and trees do not make a good combination, in my opinion.

Just ask Sonny Bono...

Lifelong skier, here. Still alive and kickin', knock wood! Probably a lot safer than taking your car out on the road (or riding a motorcycle, rock climbing, visiting Europe...) But, I love to do both.

Was in Vermont this long weekend, unfortunately cats and dogs rain (yes, stepped in a few poodles) curtailed planned outdoor activity Sunday. So, a bit of a drive up 100 with stops (mmm, Maple creamies & Plymouth Hunter cheese). Late dinner was at a local pizza place, cool owner, a local done well locally. A car guy, just bought a Golf R to add to his collection. And, he awaits delivery of his Tesla Model 3. Bought his son a used Gremlin. I said I hoped it was a Gremlin X! He laughed and, yup, it was! Forgot to ask if it had the denim seats...

Monday, at a true, local general store, a young boy on a bike rides up in the parking lot and said, "Nice Jag, sir!" They raise 'em right in VT!

Wouldn't have been able to pack all the stuff I had in the Billionaire door car.

suydam

Hope you got some great Grade B maple syrup. Hard to find out West here and I really miss it.

tifighter

I forgot to share this gem I sighted at the dealer last week. You missed out @breld

28firefighter

@tifighter - WOW. What dealer family was that? Seems nuts even by Honda Seattle standards...

roadburner

tifighter said:

I forgot to share this gem I sighted at the dealer last week. You missed out @breld

Unbelievable...

pensfan83

I'm sorry I cannot even fathom paying that much above sticker for any car no matter how appealing. Compared to that @breld received a downright bargain.

corvette

Rairdon Honda of Sumner? The "protection package" seems to suggest it's that dealer group. 

tifighter

28firefighter said:

@tifighter - WOW. What dealer family was that? Seems nuts even by Honda Seattle standards...

Burien.

Weirdly, my interactions with Honda Seattle have been okay...

tifighter

corvette said:

Rairdon Honda of Sumner? The "protection package" seems to suggest it's that dealer group. 

To be fair, they were pretty nice wheel moldings.

xwesx

Compared to that, ANY new car is a downright bargain!

nyccarguy

That's such Balls!  Car dealers wonder why they are still stereotyped.  

What is the PERMAPLATE PROTECTION package?  Some sort of clear bra?  For $700 I'd want to know what it is and how it is applied onto my car.

Rairdon Investment Package?  Is this a car or some sort of Mutual Fund?  Wheel Mouldings?  7 year Lube Oil & Filter Change

$500 for VIN ETCHING:  

$25,000 market adjustment:  that's more than I paid for my Infiniti.

I hope this dealer Chokes on this car.

28firefighter

Oh, I just meant to say that Honda Seattle's pricing is definitely on the higher side. They are very nice to work with and have great customer service. You just pay a premium for it.

For $62k, I'm not buying a Honda Civic Type R...

carnaught

A dealer that adds on a market adjustment of $25000 can KMA.

ab348

Going to visit the dealer tomorrow who messed up on my deal back at the first of July. Giving them one last chance to knock my socks off. But I am starting to have my doubts.

Part of that is my own fault. This afternoon I visited one of the three Ford dealers locally and test drove a used 2017 Fusion Titanium they had on their lot. Red on black leather, same as my ATS, which was actually a bit of a disappointment to me since I would like something different. All of the used Fusions here are black inside, but this was one of the few Titanium trims available here right now. I had never driven a Fusion before. This one had the 2.0 Ecoboost and all the stuff that comes with the Titanium trim level, which is a lot. Better-equipped than my current car actually.

I was actually pleasantly surprised. It drove really well, had enough punch with the throttle albeit a bit less than the ATS but still plenty. Much more room given it is a bigger vehicle, nice seats, and a overall very comfortable car. Probably could get it for $26K Cdn or even a bit less. It is a certified car which adds a year to the warranty, and the sales guy (whom I quite liked by contrast) said that because it was a Ford program car it qualified for Ford financing incentives if I wanted to go that route.

I think there are one of two Fusion owners on here, no? Any thoughts? Could there be a Ford in my future?

fintail

LOL at the second sticker, social media needs to rake them over the coals for that. Other than the 25K bit, the rest looks like the classy ploys played by the local Caddy dealer.

breld

That markup on the Type R is ridiculous. I'm on a Type R forum regularly, and no one is paying anything near that high of a markup, and a fair amount are getting theirs at MSRP. There are, however, a number of folks who are happy to hand over $3-5k over sticker, so I think some of these dealers are adding these stupid markups just to make those willing to pay a few thousand over feel good about their deal.

My deal was written up at MSRP, plus various accessories itemized to add up to $1,750, plus the dealer's $239 D&H. Those accessories at straight retail (before installation costs) should have been $975, so that's where I figure I paid about $1k of ADM. Of course, that assumes I wanted those accessories to begin with, which I didn't think I did, but I'm pretty happy about them now:

• Cargo Tray - I would have ordered this anyway.
  
• Illuminated door side sills - okay, I may not have gone to the trouble of ordering these and having them installed, but the lit-up red "R" is pretty cool. I like it.
  
• Interior illumination - basically there's a red hue in the footwells and an illuminated red stripe on each side of the console. Again, same as the side sills - pretty cool and I like it.
  
• Wireless (inductive) charging pad - this was the most expensive accessory, and mostly useless with an iPhone, so I had accepted this was more or less additional mark-up to me. BUT...anyone else hear the new iPhone 8 is supposed to have the capability of inductive charging? Yea! Now a useful accessory!
  

pensfan83

Funny story, not 10 minutes after I posted my response the Acura salesman I was communicating with called me to ask if I was still interested in a TLX A Spec, inform me new programs start tomorrow, and asked when I wanted to come in. Made plans to stop in this weekend but was clear I still was going to test drive a new A4 before I made a decision, which probably won't come until the end of the month/quarter.

Anyway, we chatted a bit and he said when I arrive on Saturday to text him as he may be filling in at their Honda store next door. The post above still fresh in my mind I jokingly asked if they had any Civics that were on par price wise with the A-Spec and he got quiet and asked me to hold. In a minute he came back and said he stepped outside and said they do have a Civic priced close to an A-Spec that has been there since June. Two buyers couldn't get financed and a 3rd, who had financing ready, offered half of their $10,000 markup. Supposedly the GM would not budge at all and thus the car still sits in the showroom almost 3 months later. He said he understands why there's an ADM on it but commented more than a few people between the Acura and Honda dealer think they are going to have to back off that high of a markup if they want to move it.

http://www.smailhonda.com/new-inventory/index.htm?search=&year=&model=Civic&bodyStyle=&internetPrice=40000-49999&normalDriveLine=&cityMpg=&highwayMpg=&saveFacetState=true&lastFacetInteracted=inventory-listing1-facet-anchor-internetPrice-3

benjaminh

ab348 said:

Going to visit the dealer tomorrow who messed up on my deal back at the first of July. Giving them one last chance to knock my socks off. But I am starting to have my doubts.

Part of that is my own fault. This afternoon I visited one of the three Ford dealers locally and test drove a used 2017 Fusion Titanium they had on their lot. Red on black leather, same as my ATS, which was actually a bit of a disappointment to me since I would like something different. All of the used Fusions here are black inside, but this was one of the few Titanium trims available here right now. I had never driven a Fusion before. This one had the 2.0 Ecoboost and all the stuff that comes with the Titanium trim level, which is a lot. Better-equipped than my current car actually.

I was actually pleasantly surprised. It drove really well, had enough punch with the throttle albeit a bit less than the ATS but still plenty. Much more room given it is a bigger vehicle, nice seats, and a overall very comfortable car. Probably could get it for $26K Cdn or even a bit less. It is a certified car which adds a year to the warranty, and the sales guy (whom I quite liked by contrast) said that because it was a Ford program car it qualified for Ford financing incentives if I wanted to go that route.

I think there are one of two Fusion owners on here, no? Any thoughts? Could there be a Ford in my future?

Hmmm. This is based on my own bitter experience with a 2000 Ford Focus. But would you really be happy trading in a Cadillac on a used Ford built in Mexico? And yet you look down on Hondas?

qbrozen

pensfan83 said:

Funny story, not 10 minutes after I posted my response the Acura salesman I was communicating with called me to ask if I was still interested in a TLX A Spec, inform me new programs start tomorrow, and asked when I wanted to come in. Made plans to stop in this weekend but was clear I still was going to test drive a new A4 before I made a decision, which probably won't come until the end of the month/quarter.

Anyway, we chatted a bit and he said when I arrive on Saturday to text him as he may be filling in at their Honda store next door. The post above still fresh in my mind I jokingly asked if they had any Civics that were on par price wise with the A-Spec and he got quiet and asked me to hold. In a minute he came back and said he stepped outside and said they do have a Civic priced close to an A-Spec that has been there since June. Two buyers couldn't get financed and a 3rd, who had financing ready, offered half of their $10,000 markup. Supposedly the GM would not budge at all and thus the car still sits in the showroom almost 3 months later. He said he understands why there's an ADM on it but commented more than a few people between the Acura and Honda dealer think they are going to have to back off that high of a markup if they want to move it.

http://www.smailhonda.com/new-inventory/index.htm?search=&year=&model=Civic&bodyStyle=&internetPrice=40000-49999&normalDriveLine=&cityMpg=&highwayMpg=&saveFacetState=true&lastFacetInteracted=inventory-listing1-facet-anchor-internetPrice-3

That GM is going to be mighty upset with himself (and the salesperson especially PO'd) for not taking that $5k over offer.