Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

benjaminh

stickguy said:

so, got some looking in. wife even suggested a 2nd drive of one at a different dealer!

Drove a WRX (manual), GLI (manual) and Elantra GT (2.0l, AT). Not in that order. The summary:

WRX, off the list. Way too aggressive styling, and very rough. Fast as heck but could not live with it. and man, old fashioned. an actual key that you put in and twist! Fun, but the clutch/shifter combo was poor, and we are just too damned old for the thing.

GLI, that was nice. Gorgeous in the dark gray. Seats were odd, sat too low. Typical VW high engaging clutch, but usable. Handled nice, drove well. Actually decided that if I was to get one of these, would probably be a GTI and definitely get the DSG instead. Shocked me!

The Elantra, surprisingly, we both (wife and I) loved. Looks great, roomy, best seats of the bunch by far (I would buy it just for the driver's seat). Loaded with features, excellent steering and handling. Amazingly roomy for something so short. Just fit like a glove, and we both liked it. Not super fast, but after 2 drives, I think would be fine. But, still plan to drive the Sport with the 1.6T engine/DSG combo.

I just love compact hatches, and this is nice and squared off, leading to fantastic space utilization. Lots of room up front, and the tech model we drove had everything my Sonata has (other than heated steering wheel) and a few things I am missing!

so at the moment, I am seriously considering getting one in November to take advantage of renewing with Hyundai. Subject to change, of course! I still want to see the Accord.

timing is good actually. Supplies just dribbling in, so would not but for a few months anyway.

unless of course I zig, and grab a DSG GTI instead! Love me some compact hatch/wagon action.

The Elantra GT looks like it has a big blind spot behind the driver (left rear). Does it have blind spot monitoring? This review of the Elantra GT is positive....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzCbRceKdxk&t=234s

benjaminh

stickguy said:

so, got some looking in. wife even suggested a 2nd drive of one at a different dealer!

Drove a WRX (manual), GLI (manual) and Elantra GT (2.0l, AT). Not in that order. The summary:

WRX, off the list. Way too aggressive styling, and very rough. Fast as heck but could not live with it. and man, old fashioned. an actual key that you put in and twist! Fun, but the clutch/shifter combo was poor, and we are just too damned old for the thing.

GLI, that was nice. Gorgeous in the dark gray. Seats were odd, sat too low. Typical VW high engaging clutch, but usable. Handled nice, drove well. Actually decided that if I was to get one of these, would probably be a GTI and definitely get the DSG instead. Shocked me!

The Elantra, surprisingly, we both (wife and I) loved. Looks great, roomy, best seats of the bunch by far (I would buy it just for the driver's seat). Loaded with features, excellent steering and handling. Amazingly roomy for something so short. Just fit like a glove, and we both liked it. Not super fast, but after 2 drives, I think would be fine. But, still plan to drive the Sport with the 1.6T engine/DSG combo.

I just love compact hatches, and this is nice and squared off, leading to fantastic space utilization. Lots of room up front, and the tech model we drove had everything my Sonata has (other than heated steering wheel) and a few things I am missing!

so at the moment, I am seriously considering getting one in November to take advantage of renewing with Hyundai. Subject to change, of course! I still want to see the Accord.

timing is good actually. Supplies just dribbling in, so would not but for a few months anyway.

unless of course I zig, and grab a DSG GTI instead! Love me some compact hatch/wagon action.

The Elantra GT looks like it has a big blind spot behind the driver. Does it have blind spot monitoring? This review of it is positive....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzCbRceKdxk&t=234s

benjaminh

stickguy said:

my plans are always fluid. And I tend to end up doing something at the end I never planned to!

I did drive (briefly) a stick GTI, and a decent drive in a stick Golf (non-GTI). I think the DSG makes more sense probably, but I debate with myself. The GTI actually is better equipped, for less money. But my preferred local guy has a nice white GTI SE, sticker 30K, for 25K Eprice. Not sure what that is going to lease out to, but I would end up with 2 cars for a couple months.

There are lots of great things about the Golf GTI—room, power, handling, and style. One thing that personally bothers me is that VW has for many years used something called "Soundaktor" in the GTI, which is an engine noise generator with a speaker in the cabin to make it seem more sporty. That loud engine noise you hear in the GTI is not "natural." But it's something that seems to work for most customers who want to hear what they think is the actual sound of their GTI's engine loud and clear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soundaktor

stickguy

Benjamin, you definitely have a blind spot obsession! But to answer your question, yes it has BLIS (at least if you had the style package, which is pretty cheap and full of important goodies.

But the visibility is excellent. Nice square shape, no particular blind spots. Should be easy enough to drive even without the monitor (as long as the window sticker is not in the rear passenger window!

stickguy

he did a nice review on it. I need to try out the turbo model too, to see if the extra pull is that noticeable. Price differential is not that big, so might as well! Besides, with leasing, might not actually be more expensive.

tbirdmarco

@stickguy you it the nail on the head! all persanal prefrance! has bin like that for ever! cante wate to see in an few munths what you do end up picking!

tbirdmarco

@tjc78 glad the adishion on the house is cumming along nicely! nice on the price of the new washer and dryer set! alwas good to ask when it comes to big things like that cars and lots of other big things worst that can happen is they say no! injoy the rest of your weekand!

benjaminh

VW's GTI has what C&D calls "Milli Vanilli" sound....

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/faking-it-engine-sound-enhancement-explained-tech-dept

".... its GTI but has switched to what it calls a “Soundaktor.” This system is like the M5’s, in that an audio file is stored on the car’s computer and then played during certain throttle applications. Unlike the more selective M5 setup, VW’s broadcasts all the noise from under the hood through a dedicated speaker located near the engine’s throttle body."

breld

Nice write-ups on your test drives experiences @stickguy!  

A GTI would be an excellent choice - if you're a targeting a new car lease, that's gonna give you that feeling more akin to a 3-series or A4, but in a more budget-friendly manner.  The refinement of the interior and the sophistication of the DSG do put it a cut above the competition.  And...something different than the Jettas you've had in the fleet, though the GLI is very nice. 

Sounds like you had a similar experience with the WRX as me.  I described it as "frantic," and @michaell kindly pointed out that was a funny description coming from someone who just bought a Type R  .  The WRX always just seemed more "on or off" to me - like when you're pushing it and driving it spiritedly, it's awesome; but for "normal" daily driving, it seemed more of a chore.  In my month of ownership, I find the Type R thoroughly engaging to drive in normal conditions including my daily commute.  I think it's the more linear feel to the acceleration that helps - even just driving at normal speeds and only at half-throttle, there is still a satisfying feel.  And of course, when the road opens up, you can explore the higher rev limits and "turn it to 11."  

breld

Genesis G70 review:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2019-genesis-g70-prototype-drive-review

Generally favorable review. Styling, at least in pictures, certainly leans more toward Infiniti styling than German (and nothing wrong with that).

It's been so long since Acura, Infiniti and Lexus started up, it will be interesting to see how Genesis does. I get how they are being conservative with not opening up exclusive dealerships yet, but I think that is going to be necessary. I'm just thinking of some of the Hyundai dealership around me, and none of them are all that appealing.

Funny enough, Kia just took over a long-abandoned dealership building near my work and updated it through and through. It is a very nice facility, appearing much like the newer luxury dealerships. Just in time for the Stinger!

Michaell

breld said:

Genesis G70 review:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2019-genesis-g70-prototype-drive-review

Generally favorable review. Styling, at least in pictures, certainly leans more toward Infiniti styling than German (and nothing wrong with that).

It's been so long since Acura, Infiniti and Lexus started up, it will be interesting to see how Genesis does. I get how they are being conservative with not opening up exclusive dealerships yet, but I think that is going to be necessary. I'm just thinking of some of the Hyundai dealership around me, and none of them are all that appealing.

Funny enough, Kia just took over a long-abandoned dealership building near my work and updated it through and through. It is a very nice facility, appearing much like the newer luxury dealerships. Just in time for the Stinger!

I agree about the G70, and the likely need for specific Genesis branded dealers. The one by @brelds work (and where I got my Elantra GT) is a bit run down and I doubt the owners (local) will invest in a separate building for the Genesis brand.

The Kia dealership referenced is owned by a long time local dealer - he has 8 dealerships, both domestic and not, around the Colorado Front Range. He's one of those guys who has always done his own commercials, very flashy and over the top. Maybe he's turning a new leaf.

Mr_Shiftright

We seem to be heading into a virtual reality world.

stickguy

when we drove the GLI (which we really both like the looks of), and I told the wife I would likely get the AT instead, and if so, could save some money and get a normal Jetta, I got a "been there, done that, not going back" response. But a GTI, that would be something. The dealer I prefer to deal with has a white SE DSG (moonroof, plaid seats, so perfect) now for a healthy discount. Might pop over to take a look. That is at least different! I hope the seats are about the same size as the GLI because the wife fit. And shocking to me, she liked the Recaros in the WRX (had the performance package so sportier seats, moonroof delete).

The Elantra GT interior though, that to me style and quality wise was right up there with VW, and reminded me a lot of my son's A3. And the best seats, with the best adjust-ability, of anything we drove yesterday. Other than the Hyundai badge, nothing to scoff at in that car!

tbirdmarco

@breld glad you are liking and liking your Type R mor and mor every day! is the Kia stinger your next punch! to replace the type R! not shore when it is cumming out do you have any idea? did you and the wife do any car lot brozing this weekand?

tbirdmarco

@stickguy would give that GTI an look when you can! get whair the wife is cumming from not the same car pretty much over with the GLI

ab348

breld said:

Genesis G70 review:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2019-genesis-g70-prototype-drive-review

Generally favorable review. Styling, at least in pictures, certainly leans more toward Infiniti styling than German (and nothing wrong with that).

Yeah, Infiniti derivative at the front, Acura deriviative in the greenhouse and rear. Dash design reminds me a bit of the new Accord. I'm not a fan of diamond-stitched interiors but they seem to be the trendy fashion right now.

C&D will give it a rave review, have it do well in its first comparo, and then start being critical after a year or so.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

when we drove the GLI (which we really both like the looks of), and I told the wife I would likely get the AT instead, and if so, could save some money and get a normal Jetta, I got a "been there, done that, not going back" response. But a GTI, that would be something. The dealer I prefer to deal with has a white SE DSG (moonroof, plaid seats, so perfect) now for a healthy discount. Might pop over to take a look. That is at least different! I hope the seats are about the same size as the GLI because the wife fit. And shocking to me, she liked the Recaros in the WRX (had the performance package so sportier seats, moonroof delete).

The Elantra GT interior though, that to me style and quality wise was right up there with VW, and reminded me a lot of my son's A3. And the best seats, with the best adjust-ability, of anything we drove yesterday. Other than the Hyundai badge, nothing to scoff at in that car!

Both sound like good choices.

The GTI SE has an impressive list of stuff. The most important things, of course, are the great 2.0 engine and the sporty suspension, which will probably have you grinning every time you drive it. But there's also with the SE a premium Fender sound system, heated windshield washer nozzles, panoramic sunroof, etc., etc. My local VW dealer has a GTS S for $22,300, which is more than $6000 off of list....Great deal....

https://www.bachmanvolkswagen.com/inventory/new-2017-volkswagen-golf-gti-s-fwd-hatchback-3vw4t7au8hm052596

kyfdx

I had a good deal on a slightly used 2017 GTI Sport, but passed it up... sigh

sb55

This was in today's paper. There are still 2016 leftover Kias?!?

cdnpinhead

ab348 said:

C&D will give it a rave review, have it do well in its first comparo, and then start being critical after a year or so.

Sounds exactly like what happened with the Concorde/Intrepid/Eagle and the Lincoln LS in the ever-worshipped (by some) Consumer Reports. I bought both of them and lived to regret it. I'm now comfortably ensconced in Asian appliances.

You might ask yourself why I believed them on the LS after they, let's say messed, the bed on the Chrysler stuff. Probably you won't or didn't, but I did. CR is CS. This stuff happens where I work a lot. Manager types (I used to be one) are asked to put together a 5-year plan that then generates the next year's budget. What I noticed after awhile was that no one was held accountable for their previous five-year (can you spell STRAP, I knew you could) projections, year-over-year, as they say. Most of these things looked like hockey sticks with moderate improvement next year and the one after, followed by astronomical growth thereafter. Anyone who sticks around for more than three years (common lease term) wants some accountability. In corporate America, it's nowhere to be found, nor, apparently, in the automotive press.

Go figure.

corvette

benjaminh said:

my plans are always fluid. And I tend to end up doing something at the end I never planned to! I did drive (briefly) a stick GTI, and a decent drive in a stick Golf (non-GTI). I think the DSG makes more sense probably, but I debate with myself. The GTI actually is better equipped, for less money. But my preferred local guy has a nice white GTI SE, sticker 30K, for 25K Eprice. Not sure what that is going to lease out to, but I would end up with 2 cars for a couple months.

There are lots of great things about the Golf GTI—room, power, handling, and style. One thing that personally bothers me is that VW has for many years used something called "Soundaktor" in the GTI, which is an engine noise generator with a speaker in the cabin to make it seem more sporty. That loud engine noise you hear in the GTI is not "natural." But it's something that seems to work for most customers who want to hear what they think is the actual sound of their GTI's engine loud and clear. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soundaktor

The GLI has it too. Only mod I ever did to the car was to unplug it. The engine by itself is almost silent! 

stickguy

I drove the WRX first. You heard that, au natural. Driving the GLI after, could hardly tell it was running. Which was a problem since I was shifting by ear. Ended up having to glance at the tach way more than I expected to.

Sandman6472

Now with Irma gone, son's Chicago wedding is on the menu. Sending up a box of clothes since wife is taking the train and stopping off in D.C. She's just taking a smallish suitcase and since we're driving back home, sending up some clothes is the best way to go. This way no doing laundry till we get home.
Spending the first night of our drive somewhere south of Louisville, Bowling Green I think. Want to see a bit of Nashville, so spending a day/morning there. Going to pass up Atlanta this trip and stay somewhere south of there. Then drive home the next day. Will rent for a week as it's probably going to be cheaper.
Leaving my Golf at the body shop while away, long painful story that I'm just not ready to talk about yet. Still so angry about it all, so better yet to just not give it too much space in my brain!
Time for some happiness in our lives, think the wedding will be just what the doctor ordered!

The Sandman :@

corvette

Oh, no, hope you are okay, sandy! 

kyfdx

Sold my son's M3. Only took 12 weeks...

tbirdmarco

@cdnpinhead used to lissen to CR on tapes back in 2005 after one year did not subscribe ever they send me emails still to re supscribe no thank you don't trust them at at all don't trust C and D eather or any of those other car pubalacations or peapol that revew cars on yootoob all there one personal views on cars and things! my two sence!

tbirdmarco

@kyfdx nice nice finally sold detales pleas! on the sail!

tbirdmarco

rode in the Fuzen hybrid like it drives a lot bettor than the maxima have to see if that one has an CVT to just like the Maxima does! prefer an hibride over that stop start things a lot of new cars have these days! did not get an chance to go with my younger brother car shopping today nother weekend we shal see! hope that everyone had an good weekend have an good upcumming week all!

tbirdmarco

@sandman_6472 o no as long as you are ok the car can be fixed! yes the up cumming weding is just what the doctor did order for you all! have an good night and upcumming week!

stickguy

was looking at the listing on the GTI I liked. noticed they also offer 0% financing for 60 months. Not sure how much the price goes up though taking that financing instead of rebates. But if the price was right, could put little into the deal and get a payment not much higher than a lease, but own it eventually! Actually makes sense with my usage. If I keep putting hardly any miles on, should hold value well. And if something changes an I have to drive more, I don't get burned on the lease!

such decisions. need to go drive one first. Though still run into the problem that unless I get the Hyundai, I end up with an extra car for a while and still have to deal with the whole turn in process, so it makes more sense to wait and do something toward year end.

Though as I told the wife, first need to decide what I actually want to have. Once I finally fall in love, then can worry about the money aspect!

stickguy

Hmm, I think after looking at the pictures and price, that the car they have listed as an SE is actually a sport. Love the plaid seats. But no moonroof, and not the screaming deal I thought. Might still go take a look though for the heck of it!

breld

@Marcothecarguy1986 - no, no car browsing for us this weekend. And while I'm impressed that Kia developed and is offering the Stinger, I don't see how I'd pick one over a nice used 4-series. When I saw the Stinger at the Denver Auto Show, it was fine looking, but it was noticeably bigger than the competition. That could be a practical thing for many, but I found its proportions to be off. Of course, I owned my 428 GC at the time, so I was a bit biased.

@stickguy - are these 2018 GTIs you're looking at, with the mild facelift? You mentioned the SE has the plaid seats, and I thought that was something for the 2018 model. I do think you'd absolutely love the GTI.

stickguy

no, all listed as 2017s. I have not seen any listings yet for 2018s, so assumed not at yet. I am pretty sure the SE listing was actually a sport, they just titled it wrong in the listings.

I thought I remember seeing you could get cloth seats and the roof. Must have been the 2018 changes!

might make more sense to wait for them to come out, and big discounts at the end of the year to follow.

28firefighter

The 2018 SE comes with the plaid seats. 2017 SE has leather. If it's a 30,XXX MSRP and is a 2017, it's a Sport. 

tbirdmarco

@stickguy best to go an drive an GTI and go from there!

tbirdmarco

@breld Wow no car looking! soon enuff you guys will start up lollollol see on the Stinger! got you! have an good upcumming week! talk later on!

benjaminh

stickguy said:

was looking at the listing on the GTI I liked. noticed they also offer 0% financing for 60 months. Not sure how much the price goes up though taking that financing instead of rebates. But if the price was right, could put little into the deal and get a payment not much higher than a lease, but own it eventually! Actually makes sense with my usage. If I keep putting hardly any miles on, should hold value well. And if something changes an I have to drive more, I don't get burned on the lease!

such decisions. need to go drive one first. Though still run into the problem that unless I get the Hyundai, I end up with an extra car for a while and still have to deal with the whole turn in process, so it makes more sense to wait and do something toward year end.

Though as I told the wife, first need to decide what I actually want to have. Once I finally fall in love, then can worry about the money aspect!

Owning and keeping a VW long-term imho is a dicey proposition. I still don't think VWs are known for great reliability or for good resale value. As a lease, and as a rational "mid-life crisis" car, a GTI seems like it might be a good idea, but as a long-run car that you own not so much.

If this is a car you might end up keeping, I think you should maybe consider the 2018 Accord, which is likely to be more reliable and have higher resale value than a VW.

It seems like in general you enjoy getting a new car every 3 years or so. Leasing seems like it might be right for you if that's the case. But if you might switch to owning something long-term the Accord might be a good choice. We've now owned 4 Accords, each of which we've owned or plan to own for about 8 years. In 8 years of ownership the Accords have been completely reliable, and still have good resale value at the end.

But Hyundai has treated you right, and they have some great cars, plus it's easier with your current lease to trade in. Why not stick with them? Hyundai isn't as great for resale, but they are more reliable than VW, and have the best warranties in the biz, just in case you end up keeping it long term.

Just my 2 cents. We are enjoying reading about your epic car shopping lol!

qbrozen

The GTI seems to be a bit of an exception in the VW resale game. For example, a 2015 S 4-door with 30k miles is $15k at auction. If you figure the $22.5k or so firesale on a 2017, that's 66.6% residual.

au1994

sb55 said:

This was in today's paper. There are still 2016 leftover Kias?!?

I'd think that's a misprint. At this point in they year I can't imagine any 16's lingering. Especially the Optima. I thought that was a hot seller for Kia.

qbrozen

It checks out. 2016 LX 4-door per the VIN.

https://www.berlincity.com/new-Portland-2016-Kia-Optima-LX-5XXGT4L30GG080976

au1994

qbrozen said:

It checks out. 2016 LX 4-door per the VIN.

https://www.berlincity.com/new-Portland-2016-Kia-Optima-LX-5XXGT4L30GG080976

Wow, I stand corrected. Gotta be a lot of negotiation room there if you don't mind getting a 2 year old "new" car.

ab348

Our local Toyota dealer still has a new 2016 Camry SE on their lot.

js06gv

au1994 said:

qbrozen said:

It checks out. 2016 LX 4-door per the VIN.

https://www.berlincity.com/new-Portland-2016-Kia-Optima-LX-5XXGT4L30GG080976

Wow, I stand corrected. Gotta be a lot of negotiation room there if you don't mind getting a 2 year old "new" car.

I could see that possibility. IIRC, the 2017 Optimas didn't start showing up until the first few months of calendar 2017 and there were still plenty of 2016 models lingering.

andres3

Michaell said:

@stickguy - as inventory drops on the 2017 Accords, the tables turn and prices actually edge up for the last few units at the dealer.

For the GLI, stick or DSG? I loved the test drive I had of the 6-speed GLI @breld and I took a few months back.

And, good luck with the test drives in the morning.

@pensfan83 - looks like you'll be driving an Acura before too long. I'm really surprised the Audi dealer isn't willing to make a killer deal to retain a customer.

@breld - the WRX is "frantic", yet you drive a Type R? Are they really that different?

Saw a white Civic Type R in the wild today.

I have to say, while I'm usually a fan of glossy piano black trim, there is a lot of it, and there is also the matte black trim making up 3/4 of the rear bumper. Not a huge fan, but I'd like to drive one, you don't have to look at the outside while driving

andres3

roadburner said:

I liked the new WRX STI that I test drove, but it just didn't feel that different from my modded Mazdaspeed 3- and while it wasn't a slug it certainly wasn't faster than the MS3 either. A lateral move didn't make sense.

I think the WRX STI suffers from being essentially the exact same car it was when it first came out more than a decade ago.

andres3

ab348 said:

breld said:

Genesis G70 review:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2019-genesis-g70-prototype-drive-review

Generally favorable review. Styling, at least in pictures, certainly leans more toward Infiniti styling than German (and nothing wrong with that).

Yeah, Infiniti derivative at the front, Acura deriviative in the greenhouse and rear. Dash design reminds me a bit of the new Accord. I'm not a fan of diamond-stitched interiors but they seem to be the trendy fashion right now.

C&D will give it a rave review, have it do well in its first comparo, and then start being critical after a year or so.

Genesis looks like an imitation Infinity exterior-wise, and an Audi A4 imitation interior-wise. Not necessarily a bad thing.

Imitation is a form of flattery they say.

andres3

stickguy said:

I drove the WRX first. You heard that, au natural. Driving the GLI after, could hardly tell it was running. Which was a problem since I was shifting by ear. Ended up having to glance at the tach way more than I expected to.

Does a manual GLI have a "sport" drive mode (S-mode)? That will probably turn up the volume, literally.

stickguy

I think sport mode is mash the gas pedal and don't shift up. Old school baby.

jpp75

andres3 said:

Saw a white Civic Type R in the wild today.

I have to say, while I'm usually a fan of glossy piano black trim, there is a lot of it, and there is also the matte black trim making up 3/4 of the rear bumper. Not a huge fan, but I'd like to drive one, you don't have to look at the outside while driving

I met @breld for lunch Friday and got to see and sit in his type R. The dark gray is a great color for it, I was really impressed with how aggressive it looked and in person it looks more refined than most stock pictures. I sat in the passenger seat for a minute, we didn't have time for a ride as I had to get back to work, but I found them quite supportive and comfortable and not overly restrictive for someone who could stand to lose 20 - 30 pounds.

Also the weekend before I had the chance to ride in Mrs @breld's new Mercedes. I was very impressed, it doesn't feel or sound like a 4 -cyl at all, extremely quiet, a solid and comfortable ride and simply a great vehicle!

andres3

stickguy said:

I think sport mode is mash the gas pedal and don't shift up. Old school baby.

Yes, but now they have drive select settings that do more than just change shift points:

• Throttle sensitivity opening up
  
• steering ratio and weight
  
• exhaust opening up
  
• suspension adjustments (if available)
  

Even at idle without touching the pedal in my TTS, going S-mode or Dynamic mode will cause my idle speed to go up about 400 RPM, with the corresponding louder exhaust note. I call it "waking up" the car.