Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

qbrozen

Oh, geesh. Silly of me.

stickguy

don't they make the Camero?

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, and the Ford Exposition

kyfdx

stickguy said:

isn't that lease more like $450/month with just tax, tags, 1st to drive off?

Exactly... It's not a bad deal, but not amazing, either.

And... the model I want is $5000+ more than the ad car.

roadburner

kyfdx said:

stickguy said:

isn't that lease more like $450/month with just tax, tags, 1st to drive off?

Exactly... It's not a bad deal, but not amazing, either.

And... the model I want is $5000+ more than the ad car.

Me too; I'd want a RWD Giulia TI at a minimum.

graphicguy

roadburner said:

ab348 said:

Michaell said:

Saturday, I had a bit of extra time while running errands and decided to stop by the local Honda dealer to get a closer look at the Civic Si.

They only had one on the lot - white, which I wouldn't mind. Asked for a test drive and was told I had to work out numbers first.

What!

Yep, sales dude said that due to their rarity, they don't do test drives on the Si.

Wow. Guess I'll find another Honda dealer that is more accommodating.

Or, test drive a GTI.

Heh. I guess Honda dealers never change. Back in 1990 I had a similar experience with one here. Though they let me drive the car, they would not tell me the price unless I agreed to purchase it first. I could not believe it.

I bought a GTI the next day.

When my wife and I were dating back in the early '80s she wanted a new Honda Accord. EVERY dealer in the Cincinnati area wanted to play games- talking only payments and not price, asking for a deposit before taking an offer to the sales manager, etc. We never really considered a Honda again, and my wife soon became enamored with European cars. While not Honda's fault, those dealers probably cost them a life-long customer...

My late Father was a friend of the owner of what was the biggest Honda dealer in Ohio at the time (Performance). His name is Mike Dever. He was a rags to riches story. He started out as a salesman for a now defunct Buick dealership ( which is how my Father met him). He eventually bought part ownership in the Buick dealership.

He parlayed that into buying franchises for Honda and Toyota, when Japanese cars still had a very negative stigma, and were just trying to get a foothold in the U.S.

A side note, Dever’s Daughter and I dated while I was in college.

Then.....BOOM.....the ‘80s hit and gas supply was (allegedly) restricted by the Iran-Iraq war. Fuel efficient cars (like the Toyotas and Hondas) became popular. Dever hit the Daily Double with both his Honda and Toyota dealerships.

I remember at the time he complained he couldn’t get enough cars from either manufacturer. The cars he did get was first come first served, and people gladly paid over sticker for them. He let me buy his demo (with about 7,000 miles), a green Accord Hatch (stick) for his cost new. But, he did so only because of my relationship with his daughter. I thought I was getting a deal.

He could not keep up with demand and his “sticker and above” pricing reflected that.

Dever parlayed that into Lexus franchises (2 in Cincinnati) and other franchises throughout the south. Last I heard, he retired to a mansion in Boca.

fintail

It'd be interesting to see how few options are on that Alfa lease special. Probably equipped with a radio that has both AM and FM bands, along with 4 wheel brakes and a seat that can move both forwards and backwards. Fleet spec.

I bet some real deals will exist later in the year.

kyfdx

@graphicguy I leased three straight Accords from Performance in '97, '99 and '01.

In that time frame, I really enjoyed dealing with them.

My earlier experiences in the early '80s were with Stillpass and Honda East.

ab348

Mr_Shiftright said:

I think I might even bite on it if it were say $249 a month. I could even work a 10K a year mileage. I even have a truck and a tow bar.

Mileage limits on a Giulia lease are a non-issue for most considering how often it will be in the shop...

stickguy

At this point, I don’t think I could deal at all with an unreliable car. Too old and cranky.

qbrozen

Nice color combo and nice price for a practically new car.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/720811277/overview?aff=share_other

stickguy

Not too shabby.

graphicguy

kyfdx said:

@graphicguy I leased three straight Accords from Performance in '97, '99 and '01.

In that time frame, I really enjoyed dealing with them.

My earlier experiences in the early '80s were with Stillpass and Honda East.

Performance dealerships are good. They know what they’re doing and don’t play games.....very professional.

They have personnel that have been there for decades....which tells me a lot about the dealership (all good).

Haven’t been able to strike a deal with either of their Lexus dealerships. But, have bought many cars from the Toyota and Honda stores.

Back in the ‘80s, the principal had a tiger by the tail as demand far outstripped supply. Simple economics prevailed. People were willing to pay MSRP and up for his cars. He didn’t stop them.

I have not seen his daughter for awhile. Her name is Shelby (of course). We have remained friends. Last I heard she was working for her Dad in Columbus, had married and divorced the Lexus GM and has a couple of (now) grown kids.

Last we spoke, she arranged my 4Runner purchase. That was 10+ years ago, though.

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

Not too shabby.

agreed

nyccarguy

These Guilas are going to start populating CARMAX lots soon. That might be a good car to buy from them and see how much you can squeeze out of the carmax warranty.

kyfdx

stickguy said:

At this point, I don’t think I could deal at all with an unreliable car. Too old and cranky.

Make sure they have a free service loaner program.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, but what if they loan you another Alfa?

stickguy

Still too much hassle. Especially if it breaks down while you are away from home.

roadburner

graphicguy said:

roadburner said:

ab348 said:

Michaell said:

Saturday, I had a bit of extra time while running errands and decided to stop by the local Honda dealer to get a closer look at the Civic Si.

They only had one on the lot - white, which I wouldn't mind. Asked for a test drive and was told I had to work out numbers first.

What!

Yep, sales dude said that due to their rarity, they don't do test drives on the Si.

Wow. Guess I'll find another Honda dealer that is more accommodating.

Or, test drive a GTI.

Heh. I guess Honda dealers never change. Back in 1990 I had a similar experience with one here. Though they let me drive the car, they would not tell me the price unless I agreed to purchase it first. I could not believe it.

I bought a GTI the next day.

When my wife and I were dating back in the early '80s she wanted a new Honda Accord. EVERY dealer in the Cincinnati area wanted to play games- talking only payments and not price, asking for a deposit before taking an offer to the sales manager, etc. We never really considered a Honda again, and my wife soon became enamored with European cars. While not Honda's fault, those dealers probably cost them a life-long customer...

My late Father was a friend of the owner of what was the biggest Honda dealer in Ohio at the time (Performance). His name is Mike Dever. He was a rags to riches story. He started out as a salesman for a now defunct Buick dealership ( which is how my Father met him). He eventually bought part ownership in the Buick dealership.

He parlayed that into buying franchises for Honda and Toyota, when Japanese cars still had a very negative stigma, and were just trying to get a foothold in the U.S.

A side note, Dever’s Daughter and I dated while I was in college.

Then.....BOOM.....the ‘80s hit and gas supply was (allegedly) restricted by the Iran-Iraq war. Fuel efficient cars (like the Toyotas and Hondas) became popular. Dever hit the Daily Double with both his Honda and Toyota dealerships.

I remember at the time he complained he couldn’t get enough cars from either manufacturer. The cars he did get was first come first served, and people gladly paid over sticker for them. He let me buy his demo (with about 7,000 miles), a green Accord Hatch (stick) for his cost new. But, he did so only because of my relationship with his daughter. I thought I was getting a deal.

He could not keep up with demand and his “sticker and above” pricing reflected that.

Dever parlayed that into Lexus franchises (2 in Cincinnati) and other franchises throughout the south. Last I heard, he retired to a mansion in Boca.

IIRC, Performance Honda was the first place we tried. I was already resigned to paying MSRP for the Accord. and getting lowballed on her Renault. Even so, I think that the sales guy started out at $2500 over MSRP for the Accord and $1000 less than what we eventually got for the Renault. Of course, he dropped $1000 right off the bat to show that he was "willing to deal." When it became evident I wouldn't pay over MSRP he said "I think you need to be looking at a Civic."
We walked.

laurasdada

So, the Giulia is on my list. What are y'all trying to tell me?!

stickguy

you are a multi time Jag owner. Nothing you don't already know.

nyccarguy

laurasdada said:

So, the Giulia is on my list. What are y'all trying to tell me?!

OOOOOOO

A 3RD Guilia owner candidate. Who will be the 1st member of our support group to take the plunge?

Michaell

So, my daughter saw a commercial for the new Infiniti QX50 last night, and she got all revved up.

Being the good (step) dad that I am, I did a little research if she decides to take the plunge.

The good news is that she's pretty much even on the MINI - I think the trade value is $500-600 less than the payoff.

The bad news is that the QX50 can get pricey. Based on what I think she wants, this is a $50K vehicle.

Hey, her money, her choice.

(my diabolical plan has us selling the MINI to CarMax, then she can save a few months worth of payments and insurance costs and use it as a down payment once the discounts start to appear - and I can put the Jetta in the garage in the meantime)

graphicguy

Michaell said:

So, my daughter saw a commercial for the new Infiniti QX50 last night, and she got all revved up.

Being the good (step) dad that I am, I did a little research if she decides to take the plunge.

The good news is that she's pretty much even on the MINI - I think the trade value is $500-600 less than the payoff.

The bad news is that the QX50 can get pricey. Based on what I think she wants, this is a $50K vehicle.

Hey, her money, her choice.

(my diabolical plan has us selling the MINI to CarMax, then she can save a few months worth of payments and insurance costs and use it as a down payment once the discounts start to appear - and I can put the Jetta in the garage in the meantime)

Yeah...the higher end Q50s will crack $50K easily. If I hadn't come at the end of the model year (when the new MY Qs were hitting the lot, already), I probably wouldn't have pulled the trigger. Plus, I needed a car pretty quickly, at the time.

If she can find a '17 on the lot lingering, that's the way I'd go. $10K+ off is the negotiating STARTING point on those.

Tell her to skip the 4 cyl, too. The 3.0T is SO MUCH BETTER!

graphicguy

RB....I think you'll find the Performance dealerships MUCH MORE AMENABLE theses days.

stickguy

GG, I think she saw an ad for the complete redesign. Vastly different than the very long in the tooth outgoing model. I like what I have seen. If I somehow actually find myself in that market, I would look at the QX50 along with the RDX.

Or maybe you just missed the X in the middle there. CUV, not sedan.

28firefighter

A dealer in Texas is doing Base Giulia's for 299 due at signing and 299/month. Only works in Texas though because they're applying tax credits to the deal. Also doing Giulia Ti's for 399 due and 399/month and Stelvios for the same.

laurasdada

stickguy said:

you are a multi time Jag owner. Nothing you don't already know.

And, reliable-ish they've been! XK, no issues other than a recall the prior owner did not do. The XF, ok, it stranded me at work when the KVM croaked. But, Jag took care of the tow, warranty repair and loaner. Still diggin' it.

Going to get the side dent fixed Saturday. Then the grille in April, spreading out the payment pain.

Michaell

graphicguy said:

Michaell said:

So, my daughter saw a commercial for the new Infiniti QX50 last night, and she got all revved up.

Being the good (step) dad that I am, I did a little research if she decides to take the plunge.

The good news is that she's pretty much even on the MINI - I think the trade value is $500-600 less than the payoff.

The bad news is that the QX50 can get pricey. Based on what I think she wants, this is a $50K vehicle.

Hey, her money, her choice.

(my diabolical plan has us selling the MINI to CarMax, then she can save a few months worth of payments and insurance costs and use it as a down payment once the discounts start to appear - and I can put the Jetta in the garage in the meantime)

Yeah...the higher end Q50s will crack $50K easily. If I hadn't come at the end of the model year (when the new MY Qs were hitting the lot, already), I probably wouldn't have pulled the trigger. Plus, I needed a car pretty quickly, at the time.

If she can find a '17 on the lot lingering, that's the way I'd go. $10K+ off is the negotiating STARTING point on those.

Tell her to skip the 4 cyl, too. The 3.0T is SO MUCH BETTER!

Sorry, you missed a letter there ... this is the QX50, the new for 2019 mid sized SUV.

I, on the other hand, found a gorgeous red CPO Q50 AWD with the 3.7 engine in it for $25K. 38,000 miles on it.

Michaell

stickguy said:

GG, I think she saw an ad for the complete redesign. Vastly different than the very long in the tooth outgoing model. I like what I have seen. If I somehow actually find myself in that market, I would look at the QX50 along with the RDX.

Or maybe you just missed the X in the middle there. CUV, not sedan.

Yeah, this is the CUV / SUV / crossover. She liked the old one, really likes the new one.

qbrozen

Just saw a Stinger in the wild. Red. Doesn't look as big in person as I imagined.

Sandman6472

I think the interior of our A3 is just fine, everything is where it should be and compared to the Vhevy trax I drove at work today, so much nicer. Even my VW Golf has a nicer interior. Guess we're just going to agree to disagree here. GM has improved but they still lag behind many of the others. But, that being said, if I do end up trading and purchasing new, the only domestic I'd get is the Buick Encore as it just does everything right for me. And the big winner for me is the size, that 168" is just what I want!

The Sandman

Sandman6472

Looking like next Thursday will be the big day I get the Golf home again. Will spend some time going over it with a fine tooth comb to see if there's any problems. Still undecided about whether to trade it or keep it but once I put it through it's paces, I'll know much better which direction to go in. Right now, my short list is the Buick Encore, Elantra GT, Kona and the Subaru Imprezza. Still need to drive a GTI and the two Hyundai's but will do that during the week. Have been unsuccessful in locating a Golf SEL anywhere down here but will keep trying. Thinking about financing part if the rates are pretty low as I hate to take out a lot of cash at this time. Rather pay it out with a monthly dividend I receive but will need to find out the details as I haven't financed a car since my 1980 Datsun 210 that we paid off the day after we got home from our honeymoon.
Am praying that they have taken their time to fix all the damage correctly!! This last month has been a horrible nightmare for me!!

The Sandman

fordfool

graphicguy said:

Back in the ‘80s, the principal had a tiger by the tail as demand far outstripped supply. Simple economics prevailed. People were willing to pay MSRP and up for his cars.

Ronald Reagan entered office in 1981 and imposed strict import quotas on Japanese cars. Import dealers then raised prices including Additional Dealer Mark-up for mop and glow, etching, etc. (My brother paid an outrageous price for a Camry, a couple of thousand over MSRP, but he just HAD to have a Toyota.)

American manufacturers responded by raising their prices by an average of about $1000 and laying off workers.

The Japanese were eventually forced to build assembly plants in the United States, but these just took jobs away from the American manufacturers, trading non-union jobs for union jobs.

The American consumer ended up paying much more for their cars.

So who will be the winners and losers under Trump protectionism? Deja vu all over again!

http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/27/news/economy/donald-trump-ronald-reagan-trade-japan/index.html

stickguy

Michael, a guy down the street from me just traded his Braddmobile (a black Q40) for a new white Q50. Pretty sharp looking.

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

Michael, a guy down the street from me just traded his Braddmobile (a black Q40) for a new white Q50. Pretty sharp looking.

Speaking of the Braddmobile, Ive officially owned my Q40 for a year.  Picked it up with just under 7,500 on the odometer.  Today I’m somewhere in the mid 26K range.

Michaell

stickguy said:

Michael, a guy down the street from me just traded his Braddmobile (a black Q40) for a new white Q50. Pretty sharp looking.

I sat in a Q50 a few weeks ago on one of the many @breld shopping expeditions. Unlike the G37/Q40, I fit in this one.

stickguy

I only sat in them at the car show I think. But seem to remember liking the seats.

andres3

nyccarguy said:

These Guilas are going to start populating CARMAX lots soon. That might be a good car to buy from them and see how much you can squeeze out of the carmax warranty.

Don't most of their warranty plans have a $50 deductible. As a former Neon owner, a $50 deductible per visit scares the hell out of me!

andres3

laurasdada said:

stickguy said:

you are a multi time Jag owner. Nothing you don't already know.

And, reliable-ish they've been! XK, no issues other than a recall the prior owner did not do. The XF, ok, it stranded me at work when the KVM croaked. But, Jag took care of the tow, warranty repair and loaner. Still diggin' it.

Going to get the side dent fixed Saturday. Then the grille in April, spreading out the payment pain.

I think I could live with 1-tow problem per vehicle lease. However, that would be 1 more tow than either car I'm currently driving has needed. Make that 3 with the wife's VW. Make that 4 if you count her previous TDI. Make that 5 if you count my previous S4, but that one has an asterisk.

The S4 did require a tow when I realized pretty much the first morning after getting the car back from the body shop the previous afternoon, that the coolant hose was installed in a manner that allowed it to burst open on my drive to work. Ahhh, the fun of a diminshed value vehicle. Tow trucks and misaligned panels, gaps, paint defects, and more.

andres3

sandman_6472 said:

I think the interior of our A3 is just fine, everything is where it should be and compared to the Vhevy trax I drove at work today, so much nicer. Even my VW Golf has a nicer interior. Guess we're just going to agree to disagree here. GM has improved but they still lag behind many of the others. But, that being said, if I do end up trading and purchasing new, the only domestic I'd get is the Buick Encore as it just does everything right for me. And the big winner for me is the size, that 168" is just what I want!

The Sandman

OH, when I criticized the A3 interior I was really grasping for straws to criticize something from Audi.

I think the A3 has a fine interior, but it isn't to the level of the A4, A6, A8, TT, R8, A7. Compared to other brands, it still rocks though. I felt Audi could make it better. There are some things about the old sportback /hatchback A3 that is better than the current A3 sedan interior.

To be honest it seems everyone copied the new A4 interior with their new cars, including the Honda Accord.

Which is sad for me, because I prefer the previous generation B8/8.5 A/S 4 interior.

andres3

fordfool said:

graphicguy said:

Back in the ‘80s, the principal had a tiger by the tail as demand far outstripped supply. Simple economics prevailed. People were willing to pay MSRP and up for his cars.

Ronald Reagan entered office in 1981 and imposed strict import quotas on Japanese cars. Import dealers then raised prices including Additional Dealer Mark-up for mop and glow, etching, etc. (My brother paid an outrageous price for a Camry, a couple of thousand over MSRP, but he just HAD to have a Toyota.)

American manufacturers responded by raising their prices by an average of about $1000 and laying off workers.

The Japanese were eventually forced to build assembly plants in the United States, but these just took jobs away from the American manufacturers, trading non-union jobs for union jobs.

The American consumer ended up paying much more for their cars.

So who will be the winners and losers under Trump protectionism? Deja vu all over again!

http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/27/news/economy/donald-trump-ronald-reagan-trade-japan/index.html

Well, tow truck and repair shop costs add up quick. My first Audi was certainly cheaper to run per mile than my Dodge, and the Dodge has over a decade advantage due to inflation. I'm not even adjusting for that, or the fact the Audi had double the power, 10X the handling capability, and 5X the comfort.

graphicguy

@stickguy @Michaell I did mix the “X“ in the “Q“ posts. Sorry about that. I do like the QX 50 that just came out. I received some emails regarding the announcement. From the pictures, they look pretty sharp. That said, I do like the 3.7 L motor much better than a 3.0 T in any of the Infiniti models.

Plus, you can get a new EX35 for wayyyyyy fewer Benjamins than the QX50, and probably be happier with the drive.

Michaell

graphicguy said:

@stickguy @Michaell I did mix the “X“ in the “Q“ posts. Sorry about that. I do like the QX 50 that just came out. I received some emails regarding the announcement. From the pictures, they look pretty sharp. That said, I do like the 3.7 L motor much better than a 3.0 T in any of the Infiniti models.

Plus, you can get a new EX35 for wayyyyyy fewer Benjamins than the QX50, and probably be happier with the drive.

No need to apologize - we all misread stuff from time to time.

My daughter isn't into used vehicles...

ab348

Just looked at the QX50 on Infiniti's Canadian site. It seems a bargain at first glance but you need to add all 3 of the packages offered to get the level of equipment you would expect. That brings the price to close to $48K Cdn, though they are offering $4000 in incentives on a straight sale. I just can't get past the styling on Infinitis generally, but maybe that's just me...

stickguy

I would be a little worried about long term durability of the radical new engine design.

Michaell

stickguy said:

I would be a little worried about long term durability of the radical new engine design.

Yeah, when I first read about it, I had concerns, too.

I don't think anything is going to happen soon, anyway. I suspect she wants to get the MINI paid off before doing anything else, which is two years from now.

If that's the case, we should certainly know if the new technology is reliable, or not.

But, I've been wrong before.

stickguy

I had my son text me today. All excited about a killer lease deal. $2,995 down, $548/month. 3 year, 30K,

On a hellcat.

Of all things he does not need, that is near the top of the list! He was not actually thinking about it, just apparently looking (always dangerous).

qbrozen

That's what? Roughly $730 all in, sign and drive and more reasonable mileage than 10k? $86k MSRP? I guess that's not bad. About 0.85% of MSRP per payment.

kyfdx

Hellcats are $86K?? Geez