Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stickguy

I had no problem taking casual looking test drives in the Si. More than once.

On the Jeep, I suspect the soft top would not be enjoyable. The t top roof is a decent compromise

ab348

Michaell said:

Saturday, I had a bit of extra time while running errands and decided to stop by the local Honda dealer to get a closer look at the Civic Si.

They only had one on the lot - white, which I wouldn't mind. Asked for a test drive and was told I had to work out numbers first.

What!

Yep, sales dude said that due to their rarity, they don't do test drives on the Si.

Wow. Guess I'll find another Honda dealer that is more accommodating.

Or, test drive a GTI.

Heh. I guess Honda dealers never change. Back in 1990 I had a similar experience with one here. Though they let me drive the car, they would not tell me the price unless I agreed to purchase it first. I could not believe it.

I bought a GTI the next day.

ab348

I don't see a price listed for that Jeep?

qbrozen

pensfan83 said:

If I'm getting a Wrangler I want a soft top.

Buying a soft top is a helluva lot cheaper than buying a hard top, so if it is coming with just 1, the hard top is the one I'd want and buy a soft top aftermarket (if I was so inclined, which I'm not).

qbrozen

stickguy said:

I’d survive. Wouldn’t be driving very fast anyway!

How much is realistic price for that anyway?

about $19k

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

stickguy said:

I’d survive. Wouldn’t be driving very fast anyway!

How much is realistic price for that anyway?

about $19k

That's some awesome resale value.. for an 8 year old vehicle that was probably around $40K MSRP new?

qbrozen

qbrozen said:

pensfan83 said:

If I'm getting a Wrangler I want a soft top.

Buying a soft top is a helluva lot cheaper than buying a hard top, so if it is coming with just 1, the hard top is the one I'd want and buy a soft top aftermarket (if I was so inclined, which I'm not).

Good example on that same site. This is about $1500 lower than it should be thanks to the missing hard top.
http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2012-jeep-wrangler-4wd_2dr_sport-used-17412652.html

qbrozen

kyfdx said:

That's some awesome resale value.. for an 8 year old vehicle that was probably around $40K MSRP new?

Wranglers are ridiculous.

pensfan83

qbrozen said:

Buying a soft top is a helluva lot cheaper than buying a hard top, so if it is coming with just 1, the hard top is the one I'd want and buy a soft top aftermarket (if I was so inclined, which I'm not).

Using a Wrangler is strictly a weekend/spring/summer vehicle I'd probably be OK with just a soft top I think. Not that I'm in the market for one either.

roadburner

ab348 said:

Michaell said:

Saturday, I had a bit of extra time while running errands and decided to stop by the local Honda dealer to get a closer look at the Civic Si.

They only had one on the lot - white, which I wouldn't mind. Asked for a test drive and was told I had to work out numbers first.

What!

Yep, sales dude said that due to their rarity, they don't do test drives on the Si.

Wow. Guess I'll find another Honda dealer that is more accommodating.

Or, test drive a GTI.

Heh. I guess Honda dealers never change. Back in 1990 I had a similar experience with one here. Though they let me drive the car, they would not tell me the price unless I agreed to purchase it first. I could not believe it.

I bought a GTI the next day.

When my wife and I were dating back in the early '80s she wanted a new Honda Accord. EVERY dealer in the Cincinnati area wanted to play games- talking only payments and not price, asking for a deposit before taking an offer to the sales manager, etc. We never really considered a Honda again, and my wife soon became enamored with European cars. While not Honda's fault, those dealers probably cost them a life-long customer...

roadburner

qbrozen said:

kyfdx said:

That's some awesome resale value.. for an 8 year old vehicle that was probably around $40K MSRP new?

Wranglers are ridiculous.

Yes, one of the few vehicles that you might as well buy new...

stickguy

$19k? Wow. Yeah, I would not be into that.

Michaell

roadburner said:

ab348 said:

Michaell said:

Saturday, I had a bit of extra time while running errands and decided to stop by the local Honda dealer to get a closer look at the Civic Si.

They only had one on the lot - white, which I wouldn't mind. Asked for a test drive and was told I had to work out numbers first.

What!

Yep, sales dude said that due to their rarity, they don't do test drives on the Si.

Wow. Guess I'll find another Honda dealer that is more accommodating.

Or, test drive a GTI.

Heh. I guess Honda dealers never change. Back in 1990 I had a similar experience with one here. Though they let me drive the car, they would not tell me the price unless I agreed to purchase it first. I could not believe it.

I bought a GTI the next day.

When my wife and I were dating back in the early '80s she wanted a new Honda Accord. EVERY dealer in the Cincinnati area wanted to play games- talking only payments and not price, asking for a deposit before taking an offer to the sales manager, etc. We never really considered a Honda again, and my wife soon became enamored with European cars. While not Honda's fault, those dealers probably cost them a life-long customer...

That was the heyday of the Honda "payola" scandal, when inventory was thin and everybody was paying extra to get extra units - customers and dealers alike. Lots of corporate Honda sales executives when to jail when it was all said and done.

kyfdx

Negotiated a Civic in 1981 for my girlfriend. At the start, MSRP only. They come back with their first price, and it's $6700 for a $6100 MSRP vehicle. He said, "We only get three of them, this month. We have to have $6700. You can add $600 of dealer-installed equipment, but we can't sell it for less than that." (there was a lot of dealer accessories back then).

I was livid... but, they were upfront and nice about it. I told her she should walk, but she wanted that car really, really bad. So, she added $600 in extras and bought it. Great car.

A year later, I bought an '82 Accord hatch. Sticker was around $7800, but they had their own sticker for about $8500. I swallowed hard and paid actual MSRP ($7800). But, it was arguably the best car I ever owned. Kept it for 12 years.

kyfdx

Any ideas for this guy:

https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/50679/editorial/x/manual-transmission-family-hauler#latest

corvette

Yeah, my dad bought a 1990 CRX Si that had no factory radio. He was pleasantly surprised to find that it was prewired for one when he put in a much nicer aftermarket unit than the OE accessory the dealers offered. 

Mr_Shiftright

stickguy said:

Oh man. I don't know what this will be listed at (and I am sure it will be more than I would ever consider paying!) but day-am, I want this and I want it bad. Looks like it even has the T top hardtop option.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2010-jeep-wrangler-4wd_2dr_sahara-used-17482370.html

Probably around $20K would get it but I bet they're asking $25K for it.

stickguy

For a 2 door 2010? That has to be insane

Mr_Shiftright

Used Wrangler prices are nuts--and this has fairly low miles and extras. I'm just guessing on the price but I'd bet I'm close. Even Q pegged it at 19K. And of course, we all know what it means when the dealer doesn't publish the price.

qbrozen

At that no-haggle place, I'm sure you are closer than me, shifty. I seem to always want to pay a grand or two less than they insist on getting.

Sandman6472

I love those hardtop Jeeps but probably because of my postal carrier days. My route had a blue and white Jeep that I'd have to stuff everyday with mail...letters, flats & parcels. Couldn't see out the back or side mirrors when leaving the office but as the day wore on, more and more windows became available. But yeah, I'd love a 2 door hard top and would be very happy with one!

The Sandman

stickguy

I never tried, so not sure if they will entertain offers or not. Generally seems the prices are fair, and if cars don’t sell quick, they will drop the price. Usually a couple of $500 increments is all it takes. But most units go quick.

Sandman6472

Got a call from Enterprise yesterday telling me the RAV4 is due back today, Tuesday. Say what??? So, again, I had to spend a good hour on the phone finding out what's going on here. All this while being at work and driving! Apparently, the adjuster never extended the rental like she said and neglected to tell the lady in charge of my case. After playing phone tag, I finally get with the collision guy who says the car won't be done till either the 5th or 6th of April. More phone calls and emails and hopefully, we're now all on the same page about keeping the rental till next Friday.
Annoying that I should be doing all this work while they're getting paid to do it! Hell, Safeco should pay me because I'm the one being proactive here. Luckily, my collision guy is damn good and up on everything. Hoping to pick it up next Thursday and have some time to drive it before I turn in the RAV4 just to be sure all is correct, all the lights, blinkers, electronics work and it drives straight and true. I need some time to evaluate things cause if it ain't right, we're gonna have a big problem!! I think by now they all know I'm not going to keep quiet if something isn't right because I will make a fuss. In this world, if ya don't ask...ya don't get!!

The Sandman

Sandman6472

Driving that Outback yesterday was a real blast and has me thinking about the new 2018 Imprezza. Think it's something I could live with and be very happy! Will just have to be a bit proactive when it comes to pulling into the garage. My cane comes in very handy with moving the passenger side view mirror when needed! Though I prefer the wagon, I could live with the sedan. On the other hand, I did really like the Buick Encore and the one in white especially. They're having a decent sale on them through April 2nd but of course, I won't be ready to do anything by then. Am hoping all the rebates and incentives will carry over into April. We have a few at work so really need to get some quality seat time in one to really decide if it's gonna stay on the short list. And of course, still need to test the Hyundai Kona and Elantra GT. Both look to be fun vehicles and hoping the real time mpg's will be better than what they've got on their stickers.
Also, got to drive a new 2018 Ford Focus yesterday to the Ford dealer Hertz location. They've definitely worked on the auto tranny and gotten rid of like 80% of the herky jerkyness. Still had all the plastic inside but it did drive o k. Was a Titanium model, I had the sedan and another driver had the hatch. Like the look of the hatch but the MSRP just was nuts...over $24K!! No way in hell would I ever pay that much for a Ford, just ain't worth it and much better choices out there for less dough. Ford execs must be smoking crack or something because their economy vehicles aren't very competitive in the current marketplace. Sell me one for a good $5K savings and I'll maybe listen but anywhere near invoice is a no sale. Not compared to what's out there in the marketplace currently!!

The Sandman

pensfan83

No haggle places are really no haggle. Otherwise they're on the hook for false advertising if it becomes known Person B gets a lower than advertised price than Person A. One of the dealer groups here does what they call "clear cut pricing" and they absolutely will not bend on their advertised prices. We experienced that when buying the Altima and cross shopping several dealers. The no haggle place shrugged their shoulders and told us to buy it at the other dealer. They also have a monopoly on the Infiniti brand in Pittsburgh, which was partly why I didn't give the Q50 a strong look.

nyccarguy

And of course, still need to test the Hyundai Kona and Elantra GTI

stickguy

Per my sample size of one, the GT exceeds the sticker MPG. WITH THE 1.6t engine

28firefighter

pensfan83 said:

No haggle places are really no haggle. Otherwise they're on the hook for false advertising if it becomes known Person B gets a lower than advertised price than Person A. One of the dealer groups here does what they call "clear cut pricing" and they absolutely will not bend on their advertised prices. We experienced that when buying the Altima and cross shopping several dealers. The no haggle place shrugged their shoulders and told us to buy it at the other dealer. They also have a monopoly on the Infiniti brand in Pittsburgh, which was partly why I didn't give the Q50 a strong look.

Ah Rohrich, right? The few encounters I had with both sales and service at multiple dealers was nothing short of a dumpster fire.

Wife used to have her Mazda3 serviced there. They left a lug wrench in the engine compartment and slammed the hood down on it. When I pointed it out to them upon picking up the car, they tried to tell me that it was in there when the vehicle arrived and they aren't responsible for the damage. It wasn't until the tech fessed up that he had indeed misplaced his wrench that they took care of it.

pensfan83

28firefighter said:

Ah Rohrich, right? The few encounters I had with both sales and service at multiple dealers was nothing short of a dumpster fire.

Wife used to have her Mazda3 serviced there. They left a lug wrench in the engine compartment and slammed the hood down on it. When I pointed it out to them upon picking up the car, they tried to tell me that it was in there when the vehicle arrived and they aren't responsible for the damage. It wasn't until the tech fessed up that he had indeed misplaced his wrench that they took care of it.

No, #1 Cochran but funny you mentioned Rohrich Mazda because I completely agree with you. The worst thing that happened was the tech got shop grime/grease all over the carpet and while they took care of, they did so begrudgingly. Once the car was out of warranty I didn't return for any reason....just an unprofessional staff on the sales and service side.

Sandman6472

Yes, guess I'll give a GTI a test and see how it goes. Just don't want a skinny sidewall tire to be honest. Even though the Encore has 18" tires, the sidewall is pretty large where I didn't feel everything in the road, in fact, it was a quite comfortable ride. Something I could live with but it's a bit too cheap inside, too many bits from the GM parts bin that just don't have a quality look or feel. Same with the Cruze hatch I drove yesterday, the GM interiors are a few steps behind the foreign brands and it shows. GM just needs to go that extra mile to get better interior bits that have a more tactile feel to them.
Arrgggghhhhh!!! I'm just so wishing this night mare would be over already!!! Hoping for the best but expecting the worst is how I feel right now. Think I'm just expecting perfection when it probably ain't gonna happen. And just not ready to spend a whole lot on a new vehicle. Just feel like I'm getting screwed here and am super unhappy. Arrgggghhhhhh!!!

The Pissed Off Sandman :@

andres3

ab348 said:

Michaell said:

Saturday, I had a bit of extra time while running errands and decided to stop by the local Honda dealer to get a closer look at the Civic Si.

They only had one on the lot - white, which I wouldn't mind. Asked for a test drive and was told I had to work out numbers first.

What!

Yep, sales dude said that due to their rarity, they don't do test drives on the Si.

Wow. Guess I'll find another Honda dealer that is more accommodating.

Or, test drive a GTI.

Heh. I guess Honda dealers never change. Back in 1990 I had a similar experience with one here. Though they let me drive the car, they would not tell me the price unless I agreed to purchase it first. I could not believe it.

I bought a GTI the next day.

"If you have to ask, you can't afford it!" Must of been their Sales Pitch of the day.

28firefighter

pensfan83 said:

28firefighter said:

Ah Rohrich, right? The few encounters I had with both sales and service at multiple dealers was nothing short of a dumpster fire.

Wife used to have her Mazda3 serviced there. They left a lug wrench in the engine compartment and slammed the hood down on it. When I pointed it out to them upon picking up the car, they tried to tell me that it was in there when the vehicle arrived and they aren't responsible for the damage. It wasn't until the tech fessed up that he had indeed misplaced his wrench that they took care of it.

No, #1 Cochran but funny you mentioned Rohrich Mazda because I completely agree with you. The worst thing that happened was the tech got shop grime/grease all over the carpet and while they took care of, they did so begrudgingly. Once the car was out of warranty I didn't return for any reason....just an unprofessional staff on the sales and service side.

Oh interesting - I think Rohrich Lexus has gone to one-price only shopping as well, which is what made me think of them.

I ended up having her cars serviced up in Cleveland when we were visiting her folks. I found the dealers there to be (1) more reasonably priced and (2) just genuinely nice to deal with.

andres3

pensfan83 said:

No haggle places are really no haggle. Otherwise they're on the hook for false advertising if it becomes known Person B gets a lower than advertised price than Person A. One of the dealer groups here does what they call "clear cut pricing" and they absolutely will not bend on their advertised prices. We experienced that when buying the Altima and cross shopping several dealers. The no haggle place shrugged their shoulders and told us to buy it at the other dealer. They also have a monopoly on the Infiniti brand in Pittsburgh, which was partly why I didn't give the Q50 a strong look.

Carmax would have probably sold me a 2005 Acura TL with low miles 19 months ago, but it took them about 1-week extra to get $600 lower (which was my offer). They were originally $1,000 too high, and lowered it $400 the day I happened to go in for a test drive. They should have lowered it the full $1,000. Some MBA must have taught them increments work better. In my case, they didn't. So the $400 discount became $1,000 before anyone bought it. They could have made the same amount a week or so sooner.

suydam

sandman_6472 said:

Yes, guess I'll give a GTI a test and see how it goes. Just don't want a skinny sidewall tire to be honest. Even though the Encore has 18" tires, the sidewall is pretty large where I didn't feel everything in the road, in fact, it was a quite comfortable ride. Something I could live with but it's a bit too cheap inside, too many bits from the GM parts bin that just don't have a quality look or feel. Same with the Cruze hatch I drove yesterday, the GM interiors are a few steps behind the foreign brands and it shows. GM just needs to go that extra mile to get better interior bits that have a more tactile feel to them.
Arrgggghhhhh!!! I'm just so wishing this night mare would be over already!!! Hoping for the best but expecting the worst is how I feel right now. Think I'm just expecting perfection when it probably ain't gonna happen. And just not ready to spend a whole lot on a new vehicle. Just feel like I'm getting screwed here and am super unhappy. Arrgggghhhhhh!!!

The Pissed Off Sandman :@

I’m surprised you find GM interiors cheap because both my Encore and Volt have very nice interiors and I get a lot of compliments on them. I do have the upper level trim on the Volt and the upgraded mid level trim on the Encore. I never considered GM before this but these vehicles are much nicer inside than my previous Honda’s and Toyota’s.
Re: the 18 inch tires on the Encore — I’m not usually a fan, but 18s really work with this vehicle. I think it’s a big reason the ride is so comfortable, and they look good too.

pensfan83

28firefighter said:

Oh interesting - I think Rohrich Lexus has gone to one-price only shopping as well, which is what made me think of them.

I ended up having her cars serviced up in Cleveland when we were visiting her folks. I found the dealers there to be (1) more reasonably priced and (2) just genuinely nice to deal with.

I think you're right about that but they don't have any brands that interest me that I can't go elsewhere for so I'm in no danger of dealing with them anytime soon. I also suspect if I want one of those unicorn lease deals in 2.5 years I'll be going out of state anyway.

My favorite dealer to deal with thus far, hands down, has been my Audi dealer. The sale was quick and uneventful and service was the same. Loaner cars were ready without prompting and the car was always ready when promised. Interestingly they were just purchased by a dealer group in your corner of the country, Lithia Motors. As I read the article noting the purchase of the Day Auto Group I also read where they purchased the dealer group who owns the Acura dealer I purchased from.

28firefighter

pensfan83 said:

28firefighter said:

Oh interesting - I think Rohrich Lexus has gone to one-price only shopping as well, which is what made me think of them.

I ended up having her cars serviced up in Cleveland when we were visiting her folks. I found the dealers there to be (1) more reasonably priced and (2) just genuinely nice to deal with.

I think you're right about that but they don't have any brands that interest me that I can't go elsewhere for so I'm in no danger of dealing with them anytime soon. I also suspect if I want one of those unicorn lease deals in 2.5 years I'll be going out of state anyway.

My favorite dealer to deal with thus far, hands down, has been my Audi dealer. The sale was quick and uneventful and service was the same. Loaner cars were ready without prompting and the car was always ready when promised. Interestingly they were just purchased by a dealer group in your corner of the country, Lithia Motors. As I read the article noting the purchase of the Day Auto Group I also read where they purchased the dealer group who owns the Acura dealer I purchased from.

Lithia out here is truly a mixed bag. Great customer service for sure, but the deals vary. One of their dealers is the owner of that $399/$1k due at start 530i.

ab348

suydam said:

I’m surprised you find GM interiors cheap because both my Encore and Volt have very nice interiors and I get a lot of compliments on them. I do have the upper level trim on the Volt and the upgraded mid level trim on the Encore. I never considered GM before this but these vehicles are much nicer inside than my previous Honda’s and Toyota’s.

Yeah, I don't get it either. Buick interiors are all pretty nice these days. Not sure what bits out of the "parts bin" are objectionable.

xwesx

@stickguy - They posted that Wrangler at ~$18.5K.

xwesx

I was just reading a little about the new JL Wrangler platform, and they said they are going to release it with the 3L diesel as an option next year. Seemed interesting, at first, and then read further and it seems that it will only be available with the auto tranny.

andres3

ab348 said:

suydam said:

I’m surprised you find GM interiors cheap because both my Encore and Volt have very nice interiors and I get a lot of compliments on them. I do have the upper level trim on the Volt and the upgraded mid level trim on the Encore. I never considered GM before this but these vehicles are much nicer inside than my previous Honda’s and Toyota’s.

Yeah, I don't get it either. Buick interiors are all pretty nice these days. Not sure what bits out of the "parts bin" are objectionable.

For balance I'll point out interior bits I found objectionable in foreign cars:

1) Infinity's moon roof covers are made of fabric wrapped cardboard in what seems like a rudimentary rail system like a very cheap furniture drawer.
2) Infinity also seemed to skimp on the interior of the trunk finishes, but that's less objectionable.
3) Infinity doesn't give me an aluminum sill plate on the rear doors; even if the front doors have them.
4) Kia Stinger center armrest storage bin cover felt made of cheap plastic; not leather. Everything is stark black. Even in other colored seats only the seats seem to be another color; still all-black.
5) Audi's latest generation A3/S3 interiors could be better.
6) Kia Optima rear-view mirror is noticeably over-sized for the rear window size and shape.

stickguy

xwesx said:

@stickguy - They posted that Wrangler at ~$18.5K.

so less than Shifty thought (I knew that had to be high!), and pretty spot on to QB. Still more than I would pay for one.

nyccarguy

I'm starting to see ads on fb & elsewhere advertising the A/R Guilia for $299 per month for 24 months with $2995 down.  I predict someone (@kyfdx) is going to end up with one on a cheap lease somehow before the end of the year.

Mr_Shiftright

Ohhhhh, that got my attention.

kyfdx

Killing me....

But, if I was in the market for a sport sedan, it would be way up there.

28firefighter

Over on the hacker boards they’re desperate for a cheap Giulia deal.  I’d say they bump the thread on it at least multiple times a day. 

Mr_Shiftright

I think I might even bite on it if it were say $249 a month. I could even work a 10K a year mileage. I even have a truck and a tow bar.

28firefighter

Mr_Shiftright said:

I think I might even bite on it if it were say $249 a month. I could even work a 10K a year mileage. I even have a truck and a tow bar.

I’ll keep my eye out. 

qbrozen

nyccarguy said:

I'm starting to see ads on fb & elsewhere advertising the A/R Guilia for $299 per month for 24 months with $2995 down.  I predict someone (@kyfdx) is going to end up with one on a cheap lease somehow before the end of the year.

What the heck is "A/R"? Automatic RWD?

isn't that the lease deal they launched with? Or was that 36 mos?

stickguy

isn't that lease more like $450/month with just tax, tags, 1st to drive off?

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

nyccarguy said:

I'm starting to see ads on fb & elsewhere advertising the A/R Guilia for $299 per month for 24 months with $2995 down.  I predict someone (@kyfdx) is going to end up with one on a cheap lease somehow before the end of the year.

What the heck is "A/R"? Automatic RWD?

isn't that the lease deal they launched with? Or was that 36 mos?

A/R = Alfa Romeo, or as they say on Craigslist "Alpha Romero"