Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

jpp75

tifighter said:

At the Volvo dealer this morning for service, where they had this XC40 in the showroom.

Fully loaded R-Line stickering at $47k. Must say, it is quite nice inside and room isn't a problem. The sales guy calls it their millenial car. Mid-level will be the sweet spot, and I think they'll sell as many as they can get their hands on.

Sat in one at the auto show last night, if the size works for you it's a nice vehicle on the inside.

tifighter

Mr_Shiftright said:

So that salesman thinks that millenials have $50K to spend on a new car? Good luck with that. It's probably an older demographic with family.

Volvo does a $600/mo lease that includes everything. Even insurance. Not the best deal to us in this forum, but my wife would totally do this just because it would be easy. It would be just a big cell phone to her. Will be interesting to see if it has legs or not.

jpp75

Here's a picture of the XF wagon from last night.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh you mean a Subscription. Yeah, the "new thing". There are caveats, though. There may be a deductible on damages, there may be a cleaning fee, there may be mileage restrictions, and there may be restrictions as to how long you are locked in--some companies require 12 month commitment, others let you out in 30 days, Some allow 18 swaps a year for other models, some restrict you to one swap a month.

And really, how much service does a brand new car need anyway?

I hear some private companies are offering more affordable Subscriptions but the vehicles are lease-returns and can be 2-3 years old.

ab348

tifighter said:

At the Volvo dealer this morning for service, where they had this XC40 in the showroom.

Fully loaded R-Line stickering at $47k. Must say, it is quite nice inside and room isn't a problem. The sales guy calls it their millenial car. Mid-level will be the sweet spot, and I think they'll sell as many as they can get their hands on.

Not a fan of the styling and 2-tone treatment. It reminds me a bit of that goofy looking Toyota CUV. And they have embraced the trendy kickup on the C-pillar too.

tifighter

Mr_Shiftright said:

Oh you mean a Subscription. Yeah, the "new thing". There are caveats, though. There may be a deductible on damages, there may be a cleaning fee, there may be mileage restrictions, and there may be restrictions as to how long you are locked in--some companies require 12 month commitment, others let you out in 30 days, Some allow 18 swaps a year for other models, some restrict you to one swap a month.

And really, how much service does a brand new car need anyway?

I hear some private companies are offering more affordable Subscriptions but the vehicles are lease-returns and can be 2-3 years old.

Yeah, but we are looking at this as people who follow cars, know how insurance works, and about lease restrictions, etc. That is not my wife, and it definitely is not her millennial brother. They just want a car, something basic in the case of my wife. I can just see how annoyed she'd be trying to deal, haggle or research insurance. A Volvo is probably not fancy enough for her brother. Anyhow, I think they'll have some takers, and more brands will follow suit.

fintail

I wonder how many of those Volvos will actually carry a little kayak to be used. Reminds me of all of the Subarus and similar around here with ski racks, and drivers who ski as much as I do (I don't ski).

I could see people here in Bellevue leaving the kayak on year round to look active and exciting, however.

I'd take a $600/month subscription, all in, on a nice lease return S-class or G-wagen.

Mr_Shiftright

Hah, that's not going to happen on an S-class. More like $3500 a month for a car like that, or $2000 a month for a 5 series BMW. Cadillac's plan is around $1,800 a month.

fintail

Hey, I never said it was realistic

A 3 year old S-class depreciates to around 60K, but I would still take one for the right deal. The G depreciates a lot slower.

28firefighter

tifighter said:

At the Volvo dealer this morning for service, where they had this XC40 in the showroom.

Fully loaded R-Line stickering at $47k. Must say, it is quite nice inside and room isn't a problem. The sales guy calls it their millenial car. Mid-level will be the sweet spot, and I think they'll sell as many as they can get their hands on.

How was the cargo space on it?

suydam

fintail said:

I wonder how many of those Volvos will actually carry a little kayak to be used. Reminds me of all of the Subarus and similar around here with ski racks, and drivers who ski as much as I do (I don't ski).

I could see people here in Bellevue leaving the kayak on year round to look active and exciting, however.

I'd take a $600/month subscription, all in, on a nice lease return S-class or G-wagen.

Seemed like every Subaru I saw in Vermont had a kayak on top.

qbrozen

tifighter said:

At the Volvo dealer this morning for service, where they had this XC40 in the showroom.

Fully loaded R-Line stickering at $47k. Must say, it is quite nice inside and room isn't a problem. The sales guy calls it their millenial car. Mid-level will be the sweet spot, and I think they'll sell as many as they can get their hands on.

holy blind spot! That may be even worse than my 350z was.

tifighter

28firefighter said:

tifighter said:

At the Volvo dealer this morning for service, where they had this XC40 in the showroom.

Fully loaded R-Line stickering at $47k. Must say, it is quite nice inside and room isn't a problem. The sales guy calls it their millenial car. Mid-level will be the sweet spot, and I think they'll sell as many as they can get their hands on.

How was the cargo space on it?

Totally fine. You could jam a stroller in there.

tifighter

fintail said:

I wonder how many of those Volvos will actually carry a little kayak to be used. Reminds me of all of the Subarus and similar around here with ski racks, and drivers who ski as much as I do (I don't ski).

I could see people here in Bellevue leaving the kayak on year round to look active and exciting, however.

Not just a kayak, but a whitewater boat. Because there's tons of whitewater opportunities near Seattle...

tifighter

qbrozen said:

tifighter said:

At the Volvo dealer this morning for service, where they had this XC40 in the showroom.

Fully loaded R-Line stickering at $47k. Must say, it is quite nice inside and room isn't a problem. The sales guy calls it their millenial car. Mid-level will be the sweet spot, and I think they'll sell as many as they can get their hands on.

holy blind spot! That may be even worse than my 350z was.

Yeah, it was bad. Consider BLIS mandatory.

qbrozen

breld said:

As @Michaell mentioned, we all went to the Denver Auto Show last night.  I’ll include some highlights later, but for now, here’s a pic with the M5. 

Trying to get myself to the NYIAS this evening after work, but I don't know if it is in the cards.

28firefighter

tifighter said:

28firefighter said:

tifighter said:

At the Volvo dealer this morning for service, where they had this XC40 in the showroom.

Fully loaded R-Line stickering at $47k. Must say, it is quite nice inside and room isn't a problem. The sales guy calls it their millenial car. Mid-level will be the sweet spot, and I think they'll sell as many as they can get their hands on.

How was the cargo space on it?

Totally fine. You could jam a stroller in there.

Call me crazy, but I really like it.

breld

A few thoughts from the car show last night...

• I probably enjoyed the VW display the most - a couple of nice facelifted 2018 GTIs, the new Jetta, the Arteon, and a couple of Atlas models to poke around. That Arteon is very handsome.
  
• It was nice Subaru had the Ascent there, completely available to look at and climb inside. It'll be a hit I'm sure for those who love the Outback but need the 3rd row - but as @jpp5862 mentioned, I prefer the Atlas.
  
• I thought it was amusing that Kia still had a Stinger up on a rotating platform (they had one on the floor too), just like last year. Nothing new, huh?
  
• @michaell gleefully pointed out how many of the Audi and BMW models on display we have owned at one point or another. We agreed that if there was some "German Car Bingo" game that my wife and I would win.
  
• I hadn't had a chance to really check out the Alfa Romeo models prior to this show. They had a nicely equipped Giulia 4-cylinder model on the floor that I was smitten with. Very interesting. The Stelvio was great too - as expected, pretty much the same car on stilts.
  

tifighter

breld said:

As @Michaell mentioned, we all went to the Denver Auto Show last night.  I’ll include some highlights later, but for now, here’s a pic with the M5. 

BTW, this is a fun photo. I think it would be cool to do a car show with some CCBA peeps sometime.

When's the car show in Vegas?

28firefighter

tifighter said:

breld said:

As @Michaell mentioned, we all went to the Denver Auto Show last night.  I’ll include some highlights later, but for now, here’s a pic with the M5. 

BTW, this is a fun photo. I think it would be cool to do a car show with some CCBA peeps sometime.

When's the car show in Vegas?

I'm up for doing this, too - last year life got in the way. We could also all meet up to help @fintail shop for his replacement.

I'm sure MB of Bellevue will only cringe a little when I walk into their showroom...

pensfan83

I've met more than a few people from forums I post on at events like this. If the timing is right I'd be up for it as well.

Selfishly I'd probably be an advocate for NAIAS in Detroit because it's within driving distance....or a 1 hour flight but Las Vegas is always fun too

28firefighter

Las Vegas Auto Show is 11/23/18-11/25/18

tifighter

I'd do a destination show if the dates lined up. I have miles to use, and it would be fun to roll with a pack that likes to get into the weeds on cars.

I'm sure we all look like our avatars in real life.

fintail

Thanksgiving weekend, great time to fly!

coldinohio

so who's going to get the first Alfa? new coupe out in Europe ?2019 too...

tifighter

fintail said:

Thanksgiving weekend, great time to fly!

Yeah, SF used to their car show over Thanksgiving too. I guess it's good to have the option when you have hit overload on family turkey.

qbrozen

Did not get into the show. Walked the mile there and arrived just before 6. Closing time is 7pm and there was a crowd out the door to get in. I turned around and walked to Penn to catch the 6:12 train instead.

tbirdmarco

 Nice you thoughts on the auto show closes seven during the week was open to 10 when I went last Friday maybe that’s only weekend hours 

tbirdmarco

 Annapolis is very roomy I was in the market for something like that probably pick it over all of others 

Michaell

So, @jpp5862 and @breld have weighed in with their thoughts. I figure I should do the same.

First, it feels like it's The Return of the Wagon!. In addition to the totally sexy Jaguar XF SportBrake, there was an S90 CrossCountry, the Buick Regal TourX, the Panamera Turismo, and even BMW trotted out a 3-series wagon as part of their display. Seems like the family vehicle du jour of years past is making a return. Not a moment too soon! @jpp5862 and I commented to one another how much we like the wagon shape. My fascination goes all the way back to the 80's, when I was digging the Plymouth Colt Wagon.

Next up, is the proliferation of hatchbacks, sportbacks, whatever. 5 doors galore populated the floor - A5, 4-series GT, Regal Sportback, VW Arteon. As much as I like the concept of a luxury hatch, I'm beginning to wonder who these are designed for. Generally more money than the sedan upon which they are based, and perhaps a bit more useful, but really?

Like @breld noted, the VW display was chock full of neat stuff. First was the 2019 Jetta - a pre-production model, so you couldn't get inside, but it was the same dark grey color as my current Jetta SE. At first, it looks pretty big - there was a Passat parked behind it, and they looked similar in size. After a while, that goes away. Then you notice the styling - or, more specifically, all of the lines on the car. On the hood, on the sides, I'm kinda surprised there were any on the roof. After studying it for a while, I will officially say - the jury is out. I liked it at first glance, then I started to not like it. Still, great value for the money. The Arteon was also displayed - again, no interior access. This is one handsome vehicle (despite my observations about the luxury hatch segment in general above). But, fully loaded we all thought this would price out above $40K. Could be a tough sell. I continue to like the Atlas for its 'no nonsense' look. And, the GTIs got a fair amount of attention.

Next to VW was the Mazda stand, and with it a new 2018 6, with the 2.5T engine from the CX-9. Detuned a bit (227HP, 310Torques), but I suspect plenty for the size of vehicle. Too bad it's only offered on the top trim levels.

What else caught my eye? Oh, the Jaguar E-Pace was there - both @jpp5862 and I derided the wheel design as looking too much like wheel covers from a 90's Hyundai. And, it's small. Way small. I'd much rather have the Arteon than this thing, if I had to choose between the two, assuming they are priced competitively.

Also sat in a new 2019 QX50 - this is the one my daughter really wants for her next ride. For all the talk about millennials not being interested in cars, my daughter is the exception. Two MINIs for her so far, and now this. First thing both @jpp5862 and I noticed when we sat down (I in the drivers seat, he in the passenger seat) was just how comfortable the seats were. I'll admit I don't have a lot of seat time in cars with good thrones in them, so it's hard to make a comparison, but my posterior-ometer was pretty pleased. Decent sized in both the front and back seats. I'll have to get her out to the dealer and see what she thinks of it, live and in person. But, there are examples that are priced at purt-near $60K!

Standing in the Porsche section, looking across the aisle to both Audi and BMW, I was standing next to @breld, gesturing:

(point at SQ5) - "had that"
(point at S3) - "had that"
(point at S4) - "had that"
(point at 5-series) - "had that"
(point at i3) - "have that"
(point at 4-series GT) - "had that"
etc.

Beyond Buick, we didn't look at much of the domestic brands. There was a "Bullitt" Mustang behind ropes that we ogled towards the end of the show.

The Guilia is quite striking, and so was the Stelvio. There was a Levante there, as well, if an $87K mid-sized sporty SUV is your thing.

A good time was had by all - though, I do have to tell a car-related story about the dinner I had with @jpp5862.

We chose a place close to downtown, in an arts district, but also semi-sketchy. Turns out there is a parking garage next to the restaurant with an automatic door (no tickets needed - this was free, but secure, parking). I pull in, find a spot, and find my way to the street.

After dinner, we try to figure out how to get back into said parking garage. The door I exited from was locked form the outside. The automatic door was down - as it should be - with no obvious way to get in. There was a door with a keypad next to the big door, but neither of us had a code.

Back to the restaurant we go - only to be told that at the bottom of our receipts was the 4-digit code we could use to gain entry. Sheesh!

Lesson learned.

Sandman6472

Bad news, got a call this afternoon and because of some paint issue, Golf didn't come home today, nor will it be coming home tomorrow. Saturday at 10 is the projected new pick up time to take my baby home. Just glad they're not rushing things/better to fix what needs fixing now, not after I take possession. Still, a bit bummed about it all and turns out, I could of done the auction today after all!!
The nightmare continues on into day 36...and counting!!!

The Sandman

Sandman6472

Used to go to the NYIAS when we visited in New York and used to go in Miami before I got hurt. Love the shows really but getting in and out takes me a bit and big crowds don't take kindly to this so just do not go anymore. Missed the FT. Lauderdale show a few weekends back but it's a bit small and a few don't even bother. The Miami show is so much better!

The Sandman

nyccarguy

@Michaell - I’d love to see what a “semi-sketchy” neighborhood in Denver looks like;)

stickguy

the latest issue of Automobile had their design analysis piece (Cumborford?) on the new Jetta. Lots of discussion about the proliferation of lines. I am interested in seeing one in person. Since in theory, it could be on my (or my daughter's) shopping list this summer.

as to millenials, in my family sample of 2 (26 and 22), the son is obsessed with looking at fancier stuff to replace his 1 YO A3, and my daughter is very fond of cars and can't wait to do some looking when she gets home after graduation. Oh, and her BF that just got himself a silverado.

corvette

nyccarguy said:

@Michaell - I’d love to see what a “semi-sketchy” neighborhood in Denver looks like;)

Same.

Michaell

stickguy said:

the latest issue of Automobile had their design analysis piece (Cumborford?) on the new Jetta. Lots of discussion about the proliferation of lines. I am interested in seeing one in person. Since in theory, it could be on my (or my daughter's) shopping list this summer.

as to millenials, in my family sample of 2 (26 and 22), the son is obsessed with looking at fancier stuff to replace his 1 YO A3, and my daughter is very fond of cars and can't wait to do some looking when she gets home after graduation. Oh, and her BF that just got himself a silverado.

But, I suspect they got the genes from you on that. Maybe my step-daughter picked up something from the wife and I.

Michaell

corvette said:

nyccarguy said:

@Michaell - I’d love to see what a “semi-sketchy” neighborhood in Denver looks like;)

Same.

Well, I could tell you about the guy who accosted @jpp5862 and I during our garage adventure and asked how far it was to the Greyhound station.

I just looked, it's 1.5 miles from the restaurant to the bus station. We didn't know that at the time last night, and would probably have told you it was much further.

fintail

I'm fortunate in many ways that my family is far from CA

Come to think of it, the Seattle show is usually in mid-November. Not the most exciting show though, I've had a more interesting time in Vancouver - weirdo Canuck models, and the pricier (non-exotic) cars are more likely to be open to sit in.

tifighter said:

Yeah, SF used to their car show over Thanksgiving too. I guess it's good to have the option when you have hit overload on family turkey.

carnaught

28firefighter said:

tifighter said:

28firefighter said:

tifighter said:

At the Volvo dealer this morning for service, where they had this XC40 in the showroom.

Fully loaded R-Line stickering at $47k. Must say, it is quite nice inside and room isn't a problem. The sales guy calls it their millenial car. Mid-level will be the sweet spot, and I think they'll sell as many as they can get their hands on.

How was the cargo space on it?

Totally fine. You could jam a stroller in there.

Call me crazy, but I really like it.

Saw and sat in one just like this locally at the Volvo dealer. It seems that all the local dealers (and the one pictured) have the two-toned white/black R-Design model with black interior, orange carpeting. I wanted to like this car a lot, but was somewhat underwhelmed. There were lackluster hard surfaces on the dash and door panels, the carpeting was very flat, except the color, amd reminded me of industrial indoor/outdoor carpeting. The nav., information screen was vertical, as with other Volvos, and the a/c vents were long, thin ones. For $47k, there are a lot of formidable competitors. In all fairness, since I did not drive the car, maybe I was truly missing something. I prefer the looks of the XC60’s much more, and not a fan of the XC40’s C-pillars. My initial impression of the XC40 is...meh.

stickguy

next time I am over toward the Volvo dealer I will stop in and scope one out. Though I would be way more likely to get an S60 if I end up getting a Volvo now.

stickguy

this is snazzy. Way out of my price range of course. But snazzy.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2015-porsche-boxster-roadster_s-used-17449391.html

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

you really mustn't take this insurance business personally sandman. The insurance companies do not pump their fist when they beat you, nor do they hang their heads when you beat them. It's all about black ink at the end of the year. It's just numbers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKRma7PDW10

I'm not so sure. I've talked to some very "nasty" (not to use a Trump description and word) Insurance people. The impression I got was "scum of the Earth." I got to think the types that work for them are either neurotic, psychotic, or just enjoy causing misery.

andres3

sandman_6472 said:

Had an extended drive with a new 2018 Encore at work and it's probably off my short list. In city traffic it's fine but it was huffing and puffing when I got on the turnpike this afternoon and making all sorts of noise when I was trying to pass slower vehicles. My Golf drives so much better in these same situations but think because I have the 1.8 turbo engine to be honest. But I'm just not into any domestic vehicles right now to be honest so think I'll be staying in either Europe or the Japan/Korea part of the world. Probably my best move is to just replace mine with a newer 2018 Golf but get the SEL model instead. A little more pricey but some more goodies also and definitely think I deserve it. The VW new longer warranty, 6 year/72K miles is one of the best in the business now which is great. Just wish Fiat didn't have such awful reliability ratings because I like the 500X in white to be honest. It sits a bit higher up and has a stance that I like. The interior isn't exactly bargain basement but close. Really need to drive one again to see if it's something I could stand for a good many years.
Again, this might sound really bizarre, but I drove another new 2018 Ford Focus Titanium model today, their dark red over ivory leather/vinyl or pleather and it really wasn't that bad really. The auto tranny shifted perfectly without any hiccup, same as the one I drove last week. The Titanium is their premium Focus model and it comes with a lot. The Sony sound system is acceptable and found the whole infotainment system very intuitive and was quick to learn and set up. The seats were comfortable with adequate support, ergonomics were just fine with ingress/egress not terrible, acceptable I'd say. It looked good in the red color, more of an orangy red and it looked good on this vehicle. Very decent mpg's also with regular grade petrol. The MSRP was a joke at $26.6 plus but to pick up one of these puppies for around $20K would be something I might settle on. Never in a million years would I think I'd ever like a Ford product, any Ford product, but this Focus is a fine attempt by Ford to fix a very dismal automobile. I also like the new Ecosport but have yet to get behind the wheel of one so can not really give it any kind of review. Hoping it's better than the Encore/Trax cousins I've driven in the past week!!
If the vehicle drives decent enough and has an interior and driving dynamics that don't stink, am willing to give most any smaller vehicle a shot at my money. Just looking for something like my Golf which still, to this day, puts a smile on my face. I see it, I smile. I drive it, am grinning from ear to ear. I just love 99% of my VW Golf. That's my story...and I'm sticking to it!!!

The Sandman

Have you test driven a GTI yet? It's the sporty gentleman's Golf.

stickguy

well, some companies do have a business model that is not customer friendly. Basically deny everything, fight, push back. So if the customer wants to get what they deserve, they are going to have to keep after it.

they run the numbers.

stickguy

so, this being more in my price range (hey, a convertible with a stick shift. Same as a Boxster, right?). Is it nuts to even think about this?

https://www.subaruofcherryhill.com/used/Volkswagen/2008-Volkswagen-Eos-Cherry+Hill+NJ-7af828cd0a0e0ae97cafcbc6fe8bf03c.htm?searchDepth=46:48

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

so, this being more in my price range (hey, a convertible with a stick shift. Same as a Boxster, right?). Is it nuts to even think about this? https://www.subaruofcherryhill.com/used/Volkswagen/2008-Volkswagen-Eos-Cherry+Hill+NJ-7af828cd0a0e0ae97cafcbc6fe8bf03c.htm?searchDepth=46:48

Um No

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

this is snazzy. Way out of my price range of course. But snazzy. http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2015-porsche-boxster-roadster_s-used-17449391.html

Porsches are so freakin expensive.  New or used.  I get that their asking price is “just that.”  In reality, how much over auction value (or what they paid for it) are they selling that for?  Is it $10K, then someone walks in and offers $5K off and they “settle” at $4K - $4,500 off after “intense negotiations?”  

I was looking at the Porsche website on Tuesday (everyone kept asking me what I want for my birthday, so I had to tell them something).  After building a few different 911s, Macans, Caymans, & Boxsters, I did a quick CPO search.  Every Boxster that was listed for under $45K had close to or over 50K miles on it or was at least 7 years old.

I know there’s no such thing as a “cheap” Porsche, but that base Cayman I posted for Shifty that was on jalopnik the other day looks like a good price.  For the price of a Civic Si, you can have a Mid Engined Cayman.

qbrozen

nyccarguy said:

stickguy said:

this is snazzy. Way out of my price range of course. But snazzy. http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2015-porsche-boxster-roadster_s-used-17449391.html

Porsches are so freakin expensive.  New or used.  I get that their asking price is “just that.”  In reality, how much over auction value (or what they paid for it) are they selling that for?  Is it $10K, then someone walks in and offers $5K off and they “settle” at $4K - $4,500 off after “intense negotiations?”  

I was looking at the Porsche website on Tuesday (everyone kept asking me what I want for my birthday, so I had to tell them something).  After building a few different 911s, Macans, Caymans, & Boxsters, I did a quick CPO search.  Every Boxster that was listed for under $45K had close to or over 50K miles on it or was at least 7 years old.

I know there’s no such thing as a “cheap” Porsche, but that base Cayman I posted for Shifty that was on jalopnik the other day looks like a good price.  For the price of a Civic Si, you can have a Mid Engined Cayman.

The one stick posted is about $4k over.

Porsches of the failin IMS breed are somewhat inexpensive...until repair time.

stickguy

Bradd, my birthday is this month too. I asked for a new wallet. Old one is falling apart. Probably from not opening it enough...

A new iPad if the wife determines that I calculated wrong and we are, in fact, Rich.

Oh, I get a colonoscopy too. The ultimate birthday experience (1 week early). My actual bday activity is taking the new car in for it’s first oil change.

Living the dream baby!

qbrozen

Oooo...bday colonoscopy. Aren't you the lucky one?