At the end of the day, this buying transaction has simply turned into a way to take advantage of the hefty tax incentives offered here in CO. Together with the federal incentive, we're looking at $9,500 back on the Prius and $12,500 on the Clarity.
I mentioned this in the RWTIV thread, but we believe with those incentives, we can use one of these as our third car and suffer very little, and perhaps no, depreciation.
In most cases, simply keeping the car you have is usually the cheaper option, but I actually think we'll experience more depreciation on the i3 than owning one of these other PHEVs over the next, say, year or so.
Then, there will be more fun electric options and we may just do the same thing again!
Most people lease EVs because the tech keeps improving. If two years from now the Prime gets 50 miles to a charge, the current ones’ value will drop. Usually you can get most of the incentives from leasing as well. Depends on the dealer and state.
I like your truck, good equipment, power, looks, yet still a truck. Were you affected by flooding from hurricane Harvey? My parents have friends who lost everything.
No, not me personally. Of course I know many, friends and coworkers, who were hit. Some of whom were devastated, wiped out completely, others with relatively minor damage. No deaths, no injuries, at least among people I knew, just financial hardship. Which can be bad enough when you lose everything you own.
The office where I work was closed for a week, so my biggest problem was boredom. My immediate area was high and dry, but you couldn't really go anywhere. All of the freeways were closed, and I do mean all. You could try to get around on surface streets, but most of those were under water, and it really wasn't a good idea.
It wasn't like your typical hurricane aftermath. I never lost electricity, or internet, and I was stocked up on food (which was good, because there was nothing open). You just couldn't go anywhere or do anything. At all.
I'm relieved to learn you weathered it ok. Having been thru Camille in New Orleans in '69 and Hugo in '89 in Charlotte, hurricanes are not fun.
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
The idea is, a year from now (or 6 months) (or only 3 months) the difference in resale value between a 2018 and a 2017 will greater than $2,400. So you will lose less money due to depreciation by buying the 2018 model for $2,400 more.
At least that's what @stickguy is alluding to. I don't actually know that for a fact, but it is probably true. Check average resale values for a used 2018 versus a 2017, using edmunds or kbb or ask @qbrozen.
Yeah - that's exactly what we were thinking. And, in fact, their best trade value on the i3 was $500 less than the other Toyota dealer I was working with on the 2018 model. So, comparing deal vs deal, I'd be saving a mere $1,800 to get the 2017. Didn't seem worth it at all - not for my intended purposes.
And @stickguy - used ones are rare, but they did actually have one on their lot...for $28k, or about the same as a discounted new 2017. And the most significant thing is all those tax incentives do not apply to used vehicles.
As I read this, I had a suspicion that we might not see much of a difference in model year values given equal mileage. I was correct. 2017 and 2018 Prius Prime Advanced are each right about $28k with next to no miles. Granted, only a couple of sales to go by. But even with a couple thousand miles on a 2017, it fetched $27k. So, while we of course can't predict what will happen, it MIGHT work out even better for you to take a cheaper new 2017. That is, of course, if you pick that vehicle. I'd argue the homeliness again, but then it occurs to me you had a Civic R, sooo...
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Unexpected punch. A new car for my wife in her chosen color—LAVA! Excellent trade-in for her old Accord, good discount from msrp, decent financing on the remainder, etc. I could tell that her 2018 CR-V gets to 60 with its turbo 1.5 faster than my 2016 Accord with the direct injection 2.4.
Unexpected punch. A new car for my wife in her chosen color—LAVA! Excellent trade-in for her old Accord, good discount from msrp, decent financing on the remainder, etc. I could tell that her 2018 CR-V gets to 60 with its turbo 1.5 faster than my 2016 Accord with the direct injection 2.4.
Way to go! Very nice color choice! I see your wife has good taste;). And with this punch, another shall come @benjaminh. You simply can’t have the wife’s car be faster than your car
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
The idea is, a year from now (or 6 months) (or only 3 months) the difference in resale value between a 2018 and a 2017 will greater than $2,400. So you will lose less money due to depreciation by buying the 2018 model for $2,400 more.
At least that's what @stickguy is alluding to. I don't actually know that for a fact, but it is probably true. Check average resale values for a used 2018 versus a 2017, using edmunds or kbb or ask @qbrozen.
Yeah - that's exactly what we were thinking. And, in fact, their best trade value on the i3 was $500 less than the other Toyota dealer I was working with on the 2018 model. So, comparing deal vs deal, I'd be saving a mere $1,800 to get the 2017. Didn't seem worth it at all - not for my intended purposes.
And @stickguy - used ones are rare, but they did actually have one on their lot...for $28k, or about the same as a discounted new 2017. And the most significant thing is all those tax incentives do not apply to used vehicles.
As I read this, I had a suspicion that we might not see much of a difference in model year values given equal mileage. I was correct. 2017 and 2018 Prius Prime Advanced are each right about $28k with next to no miles. Granted, only a couple of sales to go by. But even with a couple thousand miles on a 2017, it fetched $27k. So, while we of course can't predict what will happen, it MIGHT work out even better for you to take a cheaper new 2017. That is, of course, if you pick that vehicle. I'd argue the homeliness again, but then it occurs to me you had a Civic R, sooo...
Good to know - thanks! I suspect the one I was considering is gone. There were several others eyeing the car.
But the value proposition between the 2017 and 2018 was only one part of the hesitation - I still want to check the Clarity out further.
And yes, I’d say the Prius makes the Type R look elegant!
Unexpected punch. A new car for my wife in her chosen color—LAVA! Excellent trade-in for her old Accord, good discount from msrp, decent financing on the remainder, etc. I could tell that her 2018 CR-V gets to 60 with its turbo 1.5 faster than my 2016 Accord with the direct injection 2.4.
@benjaminh ....Big Congrats on the punch. I really like how it looks and the color. Every time I see these on the road, I find myself staring. Honda did a really nice job on those.
I’m not sure if the Volt is on your radar (I know the Bolt is), but I saw a very nice lease advertised on the Chevy Website this AM:
2018 Chevy Volt $34,095 MSRP $299 per month for 36 months 15,000 miles per year $0 Down, $0 Security, $0 First Payment ($0 Due at signing) Includes $500 conquest cash for current lease of 2008 or newer Non-GM Vehicle.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Our new CR-V EX AWD was made by our friends and allies in Ontario at the Honda factory up there. They did a great job as far as I can tell—excellent fit and finish and everything works.
It was kind of unexpected because for the last several months I've been trying to convince my wife to get an Accord hybrid, but finally she told me just the day before yesterday that what she really wanted was a CR-V. She does gardening and lumber projects, etc, and so really does use the utility of a station wagon/suv. She hates to set foot in a dealer's lot and so I was just going in to do a test drive. It was a rainy day at the smallest Honda dealership in our area, and so it wasn't crowded at all, and understandably they wanted to make a sale. They started by giving a thousand more in trade for my wife's 2013 Accord EXL (which has some dings and wear and tear) than the other dealer (13k), but then we hit some roadblocks when I found out Honda only offers financing on the base LX model. Also they didn't have the model we really wanted, which was EX 2WD. So far we've never done more than a dirt road in dry conditions, and it only rarely snows in Louisville more than a couple of inches, making AWD seem like overkill for us—and so we at first wanted to do without the $1400 extra cost for AWD. But since they didn't have it an EX 2WD on the lot and it would be a trade from c.200 miles away to get one, they gave us something of a discount on the AWD.
As @stickguy says the EX is very nicely set up—heated seats, blind spot info system/cross traffic alert, AndroidAuto/CarPlay, HondaSensing, etc., etc. Those alloy wheels are a weird design imho, but....wow, the tires are really big 18" x 230 or something. Love the car so far. Lots of good touches in the design—rear vents and 2 rear power outlets, slightly reclining rear seats (!), adjustable cargo, etc.
With our 13k trade we had c.15k to finance after TTL, and they found with capital one 3.95% for a 3 year loan with payments of c.452 a month, which means c.$960 interest for the life of the loan. Could be worse....?
All told it took c. 5 hours at the dealer. Was about the pull the plug a few times because of the financing and not having the EX 2WD, but my wife encouraged me to hang in there, and it turned into a really nice present for her.
Thanks for all the congrats. 0-60 is c. 7.2 seconds in the turbo CR-V from what I've read. I think my Accord goes 0-60 in about 7.6. We almost never accelerate like that, but merging onto the freeway I could tell the CR-V was a little faster. As someone said, at some point I might need an upgrade.....!
At the end of the day, this buying transaction has simply turned into a way to take advantage of the hefty tax incentives offered here in CO. Together with the federal incentive, we're looking at $9,500 back on the Prius and $12,500 on the Clarity.
I mentioned this in the RWTIV thread, but we believe with those incentives, we can use one of these as our third car and suffer very little, and perhaps no, depreciation.
In most cases, simply keeping the car you have is usually the cheaper option, but I actually think we'll experience more depreciation on the i3 than owning one of these other PHEVs over the next, say, year or so.
Then, there will be more fun electric options and we may just do the same thing again!
I would agree with that. The i3 depreciation will continue to be ugly.
I’m not sure if the Volt is on your radar (I know the Bolt is), but I saw a very nice lease advertised on the Chevy Website this AM:
2018 Chevy Volt $34,095 MSRP $299 per month for 36 months 15,000 miles per year $0 Down, $0 Security, $0 First Payment ($0 Due at signing) Includes $500 conquest cash for current lease of 2008 or newer Non-GM Vehicle.
Thanks Bradd - the Volt is on my radar, but I'm more interested in purchasing, taking the full tax incentive (the $5,000 CO incentive is halved for leases), and mitigating any depreciation effect. I think I accomplish that best through the Prius, maybe the Clarity coming in second.
And that's all just a reflection of resale values, not necessarily the cars themselves. With my track record on turnaround time, and with this transaction in particular, I'm prioritizing resale value.
Having said that, I stopped by the Toyota dealer this morning to see what was left of the "manager special" 2017's. The Advance model I almost bought yesterday is indeed gone, but they have three more "Premium" models left. While I like the features on the Advance model (blind spot, parking sensors, heads-up, JBL), my wife is pointing out that this not the primary car for either of us, and these Premium models are better equipped than the i3 anyway.
So...they have a nice white one I like offered at $26,500 - the same $4k off that was offered on the Advance model.
Again, with my goal of replacing the i3 with something that's still efficient but offers more overall range, and to mitigate or eliminate the loss of value, I think this fits the bill very well. With the $9,500 in tax incentives, we're talking a Prius Prime with a net cost of about $17k - I actually doubt resale will drop below that for some time.
I've been chatting with @michaell and @jpp5862 about this - the Clarity does offer more EV range and more interior space, but it certainly comes at a higher cost (even with the increased tax incentive) and somewhat more uncertainty on resale. Maybe Honda has found a good niche in the EV/Hybrid market, but hard to say at this point.
At only 27 miles to a charge, you might as well just get a regular Prius. Unless you’re fine with charging every day. What’s the range on the Clarity? On the Volt lease, is that LT? That’s pretty basi. The Premier offers so much more.
It is VERY hard to argue against a brand new Prius Prime at $17K. You could probably buy it and drive it over to CARMAX and make $1,000.
Although you are not supposed to do that. These tax credits for EVs designed for owners who are going to keep them for a while, and not for people looking to do an immediate resale for profit. It might be possible to get the feds after you for doing that, although I've not heard of any cases of that happening.
At only 27 miles to a charge, you might as well just get a regular Prius. Unless you’re fine with charging every day. What’s the range on the Clarity? On the Volt lease, is that LT? That’s pretty basi. The Premier offers so much more.
Except there are no tax incentives on the regular Prius.
The sister of one of my best friend's reached out to me today to help her locate a vehicle to replace her husband's 14 year old CRV with either another SUV/CUV or a crew cab pickup. She has a 4 year old CRV and they are both very happy with Hondas but wouldn't object to Toyotas either. Ford, Buick, or Subaru are out. They want a payment in the $250-$300 range so on a 5 year loan with an average 3.5-4.5% interest rate you're probably looking no more than $20,000 and probably less in all likelihood.
And...easy peasy. Got it done over my lunch break.
I’d post pictures of the Prius out of tradition, but 1) you already know what they look like and 2) none of you really want to see a large high-res picture of a Prius.
The sister of one of my best friend's reached out to me today to help her locate a vehicle to replace her husband's 14 year old CRV with either another SUV/CUV or a crew cab pickup. She has a 4 year old CRV and they are both very happy with Hondas but wouldn't object to Toyotas either. Ford, Buick, or Subaru are out. They want a payment in the $250-$300 range so on a 5 year loan with an average 3.5-4.5% interest rate you're probably looking no more than $20,000 and probably less in all likelihood.
I don't think the GM pickups or Tacomas are going to be within their budget. Any other suggestions?
In that budget range perhaps a VW Tiguan? For just a little bit more the LX CR-V 2WD is a nicer vehicle imho, and Honda has financing on just the base LX model (as I found out yesterday) for 2.9% for 5 years. But even a base CR-V—after discounts and with a modest downpayment—is more like $350 a month. Of course you can lease any of these for less, but I assume they aren't interested in that....
@benjaminh a lease is an option but not on the CRV. On the higher trims an RDX can be had for less.
Honda's lease on the CR-V LX with AWD might be in the ballpark....
"Featured Special Lease Expires 07/05/18 2018 CR-V Continuously Variable Transmission AWD LX Featured Special Lease $269 Per month for 36 months. $2,199 total due at signing. Includes down payment with no security deposit. Excludes taxes, title and either dealer fees or documentary service fee. For well-qualified lessees."
They even make the last Gen Tiguan for 2018 (Limited trim... lol)
I agree.. that might slip in under their budget.
I read something this week that said VW raised the price of the old Tiguan for 2018 and reduced the price of the new one at the same time. I guess you get a bunch of different stuff on the old one which might be desired by some people but I would have to go with the new one at this point.
And...easy peasy. Got it done over my lunch break.
I’d post pictures of the Prius out of tradition, but 1) you already know what they look like and 2) none of you really want to see a large high-res picture of a Prius.
Said he, twirling his smoking pistol before slipping it back into the holster.
Comments
I mentioned this in the RWTIV thread, but we believe with those incentives, we can use one of these as our third car and suffer very little, and perhaps no, depreciation.
In most cases, simply keeping the car you have is usually the cheaper option, but I actually think we'll experience more depreciation on the i3 than owning one of these other PHEVs over the next, say, year or so.
Then, there will be more fun electric options and we may just do the same thing again!
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
What trim level is that?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
But the value proposition between the 2017 and 2018 was only one part of the hesitation - I still want to check the Clarity out further.
And yes, I’d say the Prius makes the Type R look elegant!
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
I was at the Honda dealer on Saturday with @breld and @jpp5862 and was checking out the Civic EX-T. Quite a lot of car for the $23k sticker.
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Congrats !
- Ray
Very nice looking...
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
I’m not sure if the Volt is on your radar (I know the Bolt is), but I saw a very nice lease advertised on the Chevy Website this AM:
2018 Chevy Volt $34,095 MSRP
$299 per month for 36 months
15,000 miles per year
$0 Down, $0 Security, $0 First Payment ($0 Due at signing)
Includes $500 conquest cash for current lease of 2008 or newer Non-GM Vehicle.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
j/k Congrats!
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
It was kind of unexpected because for the last several months I've been trying to convince my wife to get an Accord hybrid, but finally she told me just the day before yesterday that what she really wanted was a CR-V. She does gardening and lumber projects, etc, and so really does use the utility of a station wagon/suv. She hates to set foot in a dealer's lot and so I was just going in to do a test drive. It was a rainy day at the smallest Honda dealership in our area, and so it wasn't crowded at all, and understandably they wanted to make a sale. They started by giving a thousand more in trade for my wife's 2013 Accord EXL (which has some dings and wear and tear) than the other dealer (13k), but then we hit some roadblocks when I found out Honda only offers financing on the base LX model. Also they didn't have the model we really wanted, which was EX 2WD. So far we've never done more than a dirt road in dry conditions, and it only rarely snows in Louisville more than a couple of inches, making AWD seem like overkill for us—and so we at first wanted to do without the $1400 extra cost for AWD. But since they didn't have it an EX 2WD on the lot and it would be a trade from c.200 miles away to get one, they gave us something of a discount on the AWD.
As @stickguy says the EX is very nicely set up—heated seats, blind spot info system/cross traffic alert, AndroidAuto/CarPlay, HondaSensing, etc., etc. Those alloy wheels are a weird design imho, but....wow, the tires are really big 18" x 230 or something. Love the car so far. Lots of good touches in the design—rear vents and 2 rear power outlets, slightly reclining rear seats (!), adjustable cargo, etc.
With our 13k trade we had c.15k to finance after TTL, and they found with capital one 3.95% for a 3 year loan with payments of c.452 a month, which means c.$960 interest for the life of the loan. Could be worse....?
All told it took c. 5 hours at the dealer. Was about the pull the plug a few times because of the financing and not having the EX 2WD, but my wife encouraged me to hang in there, and it turned into a really nice present for her.
Thanks for all the congrats. 0-60 is c. 7.2 seconds in the turbo CR-V from what I've read. I think my Accord goes 0-60 in about 7.6. We almost never accelerate like that, but merging onto the freeway I could tell the CR-V was a little faster. As someone said, at some point I might need an upgrade.....!
And that's all just a reflection of resale values, not necessarily the cars themselves. With my track record on turnaround time, and with this transaction in particular, I'm prioritizing resale value.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
So...they have a nice white one I like offered at $26,500 - the same $4k off that was offered on the Advance model.
Again, with my goal of replacing the i3 with something that's still efficient but offers more overall range, and to mitigate or eliminate the loss of value, I think this fits the bill very well. With the $9,500 in tax incentives, we're talking a Prius Prime with a net cost of about $17k - I actually doubt resale will drop below that for some time.
I've been chatting with @michaell and @jpp5862 about this - the Clarity does offer more EV range and more interior space, but it certainly comes at a higher cost (even with the increased tax incentive) and somewhat more uncertainty on resale. Maybe Honda has found a good niche in the EV/Hybrid market, but hard to say at this point.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
On the Volt lease, is that LT? That’s pretty basi. The Premier offers so much more.
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
CRV (prior gen)
Rav4
Jeep Cherokee (prior facelift)
CX-5(?)
I don't think the GM pickups or Tacomas are going to be within their budget. Any other suggestions?
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
I’d post pictures of the Prius out of tradition, but 1) you already know what they look like and 2) none of you really want to see a large high-res picture of a Prius.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
"Featured Special Lease
Expires 07/05/18
2018 CR-V Continuously Variable Transmission AWD LX Featured Special Lease
$269
Per month for 36 months.
$2,199 total due at signing.
Includes down payment with no security deposit. Excludes taxes, title and either dealer fees or documentary service fee. For well-qualified lessees."
https://automobiles.honda.com/tools/current-offers?zipcode=40205
And with some negotiation you might be able to do better than that?
Do they need AWD? If not, they can save some there.
At my local VW Dealer they have some of the last generation Tiguan for c. $19k or so.
I agree.. that might slip in under their budget.
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25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Congrats! Is this you blocking the leftover lane of I95 in CT at 6:30 this AM?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD